H Plus Son Archetype rims

[campy man]

Considering giving the H Plus Son Archetype rims(32H) a shot.

Any feedback on the hard anodized versions? Been reading the black versions show brake tracks quickly, same with hard anodized?

Been using Mavic rims for years with no issues but would like to try a 23mm rim with 32mm tires. Tried DT RR440 rims, those were great but getting tires on/off was a major pain in the a**.

Any feedback on the Archetype rims related to durability and mounting tires would be appreciated.

[Nooch]

I've got about 1000 miles on a pair of the Hard Ano Grey rims, with little to no wear -- a few scratches from a pebble getting stuck in the brake pad, but no legitimate wear.

[campy man]

Any issues with mounting or changing tires?

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

I've got about 1000 miles on a pair of the Hard Ano Grey rims, with little to no wear -- a few scratches from a pebble getting stuck in the brake pad, but no legitimate wear.

How about the hard ano tb14?

[Davist]

I have black ones, haven't had any problems with tire changes (thumbs to put on, 1 lever for take off). Black anodizing wears off as you've noted, not a big deal to me.

Mine didn't seem to like Schwalbe Ultremo ZX tires in 28mm, seemed to get flats too often. Continental 28s are fine, as are Michelin 25s. Just a data point.

[sandyrs]

Any issues with mounting or changing tires?

It isn't especially difficult. I've found it depends more on the tire.

I will say that I lost the hard ano off my rims after literally one ride in post-snowstorm Massachusetts. I think the salt and grime from the roads wore it right off. This was one of those rides where normally-quiet brakes make a jet engine sound every time you hit them, so this is far from typical usage.

[R3awak3n]

I have TB14 hard ano, Archetype hard ano and also a set of archetype black. Mounting a tire really depends on the tire. Have mounted gatorskin, conti 4 season and pro 4s with no problem at all. Mounting a gran bois cerf blue on the TB14 was a huge pain in the ass, first time is worst of course.

They are all great rims, very round and easy to build.

The hard ano version coating definitely lasts longer than the black but it will wear off. I went for a ride in the rain and that did it, grime got stuck btw the pad and the rim and so it got a bit scratched up.

[bluesea]

Hard ano has the *sight* green tint, but you get used to it. Conti 4 Seasons mount easier on Archetypes than 4000s on Neutrons, but the tires hold well. Had a front blow out at about 30-35mph and both beads held till stop. ymmv

[teleguy57]

How about the hard ano tb14?

I have them. Went with Koolstop Salmon pads to get better braking. I've ridden them in some really crappy conditions, and I do have a bit of grooving in the anodizing from picking up grit on the pads. I think of it as custom milling to improve braking performance:) and I do think a well-used pair of rims has character.

Oh, and I'm a fan of the slightly greenish color. Looks exactly like my Nemesis tubular rims.

[misterha]

I'm pretty happy with them, and the track last a while as long as you ride it in the dry. One rainy ride and they were pretty worn.

[beeatnik]

If you don't ride them in the rain, you can get a few thousand miles of use before any significant wear on the brake track. And I'm talking about the black ones. You could probably get 10,000 miles out of the hard anos (sold mine after 6 months).

Still look pretty black from most angles with over a year of use:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5609/15352213327_b21f71bb30_c.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3955/15352069878_db0c13774b_c.jpg

[R3awak3n]

http://i57.tinypic.com/308880h.jpg

Those are the TB14s, have about 500 miles, maybe a bit more. The gray hard ano still looks good appart from the line right in the middle which happened during the rainy day. They looked pretty new till they got out in the rain. I will get some pictures of my black ones tonight.

[gngroup]

I bought a set of the Archetype hard ano rims laced to Ultegra 6800 hubs for rainy/wet riding this winter. One 15 mile ride in the rain a couple weeks ago and the anodizing wore off. Not a big deal to me and obviously there was a lot of 'muck' from the conditions that contributed to that. Tires were 24mm Vittoria Pave's and were no harder/easier than normal.

[Tony T]

Black anodizing wears off as you've noted, not a big deal to me.

I like mine better now that they've completely worn of both wheels and I have a nice bright brake track

[don compton]

How about the durability of these rims. Are they easy to build for wheelbuilders? Just curious.

[Johnny P]

Any issues with mounting or changing tires?

I bought a set of Pacenti SL23 wheels and it's very hard for me to mount tires on them.

[Duende]

I love my Archetypes! Flew down some unexpected marble stairs that came out of nowhere on my recent trip to Italy. With a bike loaded with 25 pounds of gear... Wheels stayed completely true!

Another plus is that they brake better than the old rims I had also.

Just my .02. Great value in a rim.

[Kirk Pacenti]

I bought a set of Pacenti SL23 wheels and it's very hard for me to mount tires on them.

Give a call or email me kirk@pacenticycledesign.com and we can discuss a few tips for easier mounting.

Cheers,
KP

[Shoeman]

I bought a set of Pacenti SL23 wheels and it's very hard for me to mount tires on them.

I didn't have a problem with my Michelin Pro 700x25's.

[thegunner]

I bought a set of Pacenti SL23 wheels and it's very hard for me to mount tires on them.

never an issue with veloflexes either - i think it depends on the tire. the conti 4000s were a killer to mount on pretty much every one of my rims.

[R3awak3n]

How about the durability of these rims. Are they easy to build for wheelbuilders? Just curious.

I had a good experience building them. The ERD was spot on for the archetypes and they built pretty true without much hassle.

I did prefer to build the TB14s for the fact that it has eyelets but the archetypes are solid.

[curlybro]

I love mine. Super easy to mount tires and they look good. They were really easy to build too.

[buck-50]

I've had one set of anodized Archetypes for a little over 2000 miles now, the anodizing has some wear but it's barely noticeable. Riding on crappy Wisconsin roads and the occasional gravel they've been awesome. They were awesome enough that I just bought a second pair for another bike.

[teleguy57]

I've had one set of anodized Archetypes for a little over 2000 miles now, the anodizing has some wear but it's barely noticeable. Riding on crappy Wisconsin roads and the occasional gravel they've been awesome. They were awesome enough that I just bought a second pair for another bike.

I think most of our WI roads are actually pretty good for riding -- but the Archetypes and my TB-14s do call out to be ridden on gravel and in "fun" conditions. Where in WI are you?

[FGC]

The one set of HA Archetypes I built came together very easily. The anodizing came off quickly, though. The biggest thing I noticed is that they're probably the best braking rims I've ever had.

[giverdada]

archetypes are gorgeous-looking rims, build up really nicely, and brake well.

best-braking rims i've ever had - ambrosio excursions (i KNOW!) after wearing through the anodization. even with campy oem pads, then crazy good with salmon koolstops.

archetypes are not far off for the braking ability.

i built a front wheel up radially and it's remained true and round for the season, not that i actually got to ride much. one rainy ride and the ano came off, but it comes off in such a way that it just looks like a machined rim. no biggie. i can't comment on the hard ano as mine are just the standard black.

tire mounting and dismounting has been totally fine using hands to get on and a lever to get off. all this with michelin pro4 race, maxxis re-fuse, and maybe a pro4 service course.

next wheels i build up will both be with archetypes. really nice building and riding rims.

[miguel]

archetypes are fantastic. with salmon pads and roughly ~3000mi my rear rim is gonna go soon. that is, 80lbs of pressure and the rim bows out a bit.

[buck-50]

I think most of our WI roads are actually pretty good for riding -- but the Archetypes and my TB-14s do call out to be ridden on gravel and in "fun" conditions. Where in WI are you?

Madison- south of Madison the roads are pretty chewed up every spring...

Also no problems whatsoever mounting tires- they are my new favorites.

[Duende]

That's cool that we all came to the same conclusion in regards to the achetype's exceptional braking capabilities.

The previous rims I had were Hed c2's and when I applied my brakes... I heard soft brushing sounds... But I wasn't slowing down much at all!

[azrider]

Can someone help: I am curious if there is weight limit associated with a 20/24 build with Archetype H plus....triple cross rear and radial front.

thanks in advance

[Kentf14]

I've got some Archetypes built on R45s by Justin @ Luxe. Love 'em! Recently put on some Grand Bois tires and man are these wheels fast and comfy. I hate to say it, but I almost prefer this combo over my ENVE 3.4s with 23C tires. :confused:

[steel515]

Does gray color wear out after braking? Is braking performance silver?

[ceolwulf]

Does gray color wear out after braking? Is braking performance silver?

The brake track will wear down to bare metal, yes.

[eBAUMANN]

Can someone help: I am curious if there is weight limit associated with a 20/24 build with Archetype H plus....triple cross rear and radial front.

thanks in advance

I could be wrong but I don't think you can triple cross a 24h wheel...

That said, I weigh 180 kitted up and have had no issues with my 20/24 r45/archetype set over almost 1k miles. They are built radial front, 2x rear.

[Hermes_Alex]

3x can be doable depending on the hub, but generally you'll be fine with 2x. The Archetype, due to its reubenesque weight and decent depth, positively begs for a low spoke count - something their distributors sadly don't generally provide!

[oldpotatoe]

3x can be doable depending on the hub, but generally you'll be fine with 2x. The Archetype, due to its reubenesque weight and decent depth, positively begs for a low spoke count - something their distributors sadly don't generally provide!

Well, I think the distributors and H+Son want to sell rims and 28 and 32h hubs are far more common than 24 and on down. AND the most standard type rider using these are firmly in the 28, or better yet, 32h, weight range. Regardless of Reuben.

A 20/24 wheelset is 16 spokes lighter than a 28/32..4 ounces or 112 grams in old money. On a sometimes 90,000 gram bike and rider package. And with a bit of increased reliability thrown in.

BUT yes, at the coffee shop, a 20/24 does gain points.

[kevinvc]

I'm planning on building up a set of wheels with these. I've heard nothing but good things about them by people who have built and ridden them. I'm listening to the wise tater and getting 32 / 32, despite the urge to bling some 24 / 28

Now my only question is what hubs to use. I'm leaning Hope Mono RS, but not sure if they're worth the price over Ultegras.

[Black Dog]

I'm planning on building up a set of wheels with these. I've heard nothing but good things about them by people who have built and ridden them. I'm listening to the wise tater and getting 32 / 32, despite the urge to bling some 24 / 28

Now my only question is what hubs to use. I'm leaning Hope Mono RS, but not sure if they're worth the price over Ultegras.

Why not a set of campy record hubs? You can get a shimano freehub for them as an extra and you will still be saving money over more pricey brands. I just picked up a set delivered for around $200 from Ribble. Yes they are new and the black version. They will last forever and are easy to service. What's not to like. I am going to lace them to a set of DT R460's.

[kevinvc]

Why not a set of campy record hubs? You can get a shimano freehub for them as an extra and you will still be saving money over more pricey brands. I just picked up a set delivered for around $200 from Ribble. Yes they are new and the black version. They will last forever and are easy to service. What's not to like. I am going to lace them to a set of DT R460's.

I never considered that. What's the advantage of the campy hub over Ultegra or something similar?

[Black Dog]

I never considered that. What's the advantage of the campy hub over Ultegra or something similar?

Over Dura-Ace or Ultegra not much to be honest. Other than the fact that it is campy. :cool: You can probably get 6800 Ultegra for about $150 to your door and even 5800 105 which is good for about 1/2 of that. Bang for buck Ultegra is very hard to beat. They will spin smooth and last forever and being cup and cone will be easy to service and changing the loose bearings will never be expensive.

[oldpotatoe]

I never considered that. What's the advantage of the campy hub over Ultegra or something similar?

Different design, different way to do the same thing. Record are hard to beat if you want a Campagnolo wheel set and 32h. 6800 are great hubs for a shimano based wheel set. 9000 are keen but holy moly, like DT240, got real expensive. If you are gonna spend that dough, 9000, DT240, WI are good choices.

And as has been mentioned and unlike Shimano, you can make Campag hubs 11s shimano cogset compatible.

[sailorboy]

Give a call or email me kirk@pacenticycledesign.com and we can discuss a few tips for easier mounting.

Cheers,
KP

I was thinking the same thing about a set of CL25s I had built up recently and one trick to help is once the tire is most of the way mounted, pinch the beads together to the center of the rim where there is a deeper channel and this will make the final push easier to get the last part of the bead on.

[MattTuck]

Well, I think the distributors and H+Son want to sell rims and 28 and 32h hubs are far more common than 24 and on down. AND the most standard type rider using these are firmly in the 28, or better yet, 32h, weight range. Regardless of Reuben.

A 20/24 wheelset is 16 spokes lighter than a 28/32..4 ounces or 112 grams in old money. On a sometimes 90,000 gram bike and rider package. And with a bit of increased reliability thrown in.

BUT yes, at the coffee shop, a 20/24 does gain points.

But Peter, it's rotational weight!! ;)

[oldpotatoe]

But Peter, it's rotational weight!! ;)

Cough, gag....

[Black Dog]

But Peter, it's rotational weight!! ;)

This is so true, I swear I can feel it. My Strava times dropped significantly one day as I was flying up hills. My bike was accelerating like a rocket and the wheels were spinning up really fast. I had to yell STRAVA more than normal while I was accelerating like a race horse on meth. I could not figure out why I was so fast, until I got home and noticed the valve caps sitting on my work bench. I forgot to reinstall them after inflating my tires before the ride. The reduced rotational mass near the rim completely changed the bikes performance. I swear this is true, I felt it! Oh yea, if they ever put Strava on the internet you can see my amazing performance that day. ;)

[EDS]

I'm planning on building up a set of wheels with these. I've heard nothing but good things about them by people who have built and ridden them. I'm listening to the wise tater and getting 32 / 32, despite the urge to bling some 24 / 28

Now my only question is what hubs to use. I'm leaning Hope Mono RS, but not sure if they're worth the price over Ultegras.

I am 170 lbs and have a set of archetypes laced 24/28 to WI hubs with a few thousand miles on them. I doubt I will need to true them ever outside of a serious crash.

[kevinvc]

Different design, different way to do the same thing. Record are hard to beat if you want a Campagnolo wheel set and 32h. 6800 are great hubs for a shimano based wheel set. 9000 are keen but holy moly, like DT240, got real expensive. If you are gonna spend that dough, 9000, DT240, WI are good choices.

And as has been mentioned and unlike Shimano, you can make Campag hubs 11s shimano cogset compatible.

I don't have any special Campag allegiance. I'm fairly narrowed down to either Ultegra 6800 or Hope Mono RS. I like the color of the latter and have heard very positive things about them, but I don't know if there is a performance / durability advantage over the Shimano to justify the price. They're only about $80 more, but that's still money I could spend on something else.

[steel515]

The brake track will wear down to bare metal, yes.

(I meant,) braking performance is Similar?

[R3awak3n]

Braking performance should be similar between whatever finish I would say.

[Tony T]

Braking performance is more dependent on the brake pads used (i.e. salmon have more braking power)

[velofinds]

Checking in on this thread -- can anyone post a photo of a hard anondized (not black) rim - TB14 or Archetype, either/or - with worn brake tracks? Just wanted to see what it looks like after the anondized coating has completely given up the ghost. Thanks!

[Tony T]

Edit: Opps, this is black, not what you asked for, sorry.

[kittytrail]

whoopsie... :D

[kittytrail]

have a look:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1650871&postcount=12

;)

[velofinds]

have a look:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1650871&postcount=12

;)

Thanks, but I'm looking for a shot of when the anondizing strips away from the entire braking surface completely, much like what Tony T has posted (but for the hard ano rims).

[Gummee]

I built a pair of TB14s then sold em to a co-worker. He rides gravel on em like Mongo and they've held up under him.

...and these are the box-section rims!

I have another pair of 28/32 rims that are looking for hubs.

Haven't built with the Archetype yet.

M

[donevwil]

Sorry can't help with a pic because I've got about 1200 miles on my Peter-built hard ano TB-14s and no sign of brake track wear. I'm actually quite surprised, but I've consciously kept my pads clean.

[joep2517]

Sorry can't help with a pic because I've got about 1200 miles on my Peter-built hard ano TB-14s and no sign of brake track wear. I'm actually quite surprised, but I've consciously kept my pads clean.

what brake pads are you using with these rims?

thanks,

[sandyrs]

Checking in on this thread -- can anyone post a photo of a hard anondized (not black) rim - TB14 or Archetype, either/or - with worn brake tracks? Just wanted to see what it looks like after the anondized coating has completely given up the ghost. Thanks!

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1883391&postcount=1

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1336188&postcount=1 (second picture)

[bikerboy337]

I've got a good bit of mileage on mine (maybe 1000 or so), been using kool stop salmon and nary an issue with the hard annodizing.

I've never ridden them in the rain, so I know that helps... but mine are in great shape with little to no wear of the brake track...

[donevwil]

what brake pads are you using with these rims?

thanks,

Kool Stop Salmon which are stock on my Paul Medium Racers. I have found, however, that the relatively soft salmon compound does hold on to a lot of debris in the wet. Fortunately the color contrast makes cleaning more visually straightforward.

I've avoided riding these wheels in especially sloppy conditions, figuring the brake track would pay the price in short order.

[ryker]

I've never ridden them in the rain, so I know that helps...


Mine looked like new for a couple months until I rode in the rain. Two rain commutes and the ano was gone. No problem at all. All I see when look at a silver H+Son brake track is a bike that gets ridden.