Am I the only one?

[Tony]

Lots of talk about tubulars here lately.
I've been very interested in a tubular wheelset for some time. When I first discovered this forum and heard so many positive comments from folks with lots of experience regarding their performance I had to try them for myself. I've been able to try half a dozen or so tubular wheelsets to present date. Most of these tubular wheels was narrow compared to the 23", 24" rims I currently use.
I know it’s the whole package not just the tires but I must say that I don't see the BIG difference when compared to say my current wheelsets, Belgium C2 Clincher, SL 23, Vittoria open corsa cx 25, and a light weight (70 grams) butyl tube.

Tubulars seem like such a hassle compared to clinchers. I've seen a couple riders this year struggling with getting the tire off the rim, painful to watch, one walking to a pickup point.
I know there must be a difference, so many folks say so. However, am I the only one here that doesn't see a difference in performance when compared to these wider rims and nice tires? Is it really worth the hassle compared to these wider clincher rims? I've really had enough of toxic chemicals in my life building and repairing kayaks that I don't want to deal with more toxic crap like the solvents for cleaning the rim and the powerful smelling glues that come with a MSDS for your safety.

Does anyone here have a wide rim clincher wheelset, and a similar tubular wheelset and care to share the difference they feel between two?
Two of those who I switched bikes with were surprised how nice the wider rims are with 25 tires, they seemed genuinely surprised.
Thanks

[shovelhd]

I have 27mm wide Zipp Firecrest tubulars and 27mm Chinese clinchers. I use 23mm tires on both sets. However it's the offseason so I use butyl tubes in the clinchers and the tubulars have latex, so not a fair comparison. The tubulars ride nicer and handle better, and offer a safety factor when racing that makes it worth it for me. They are only used for racing. The difference isn't huge, though. There was a significant difference going from 21mm to 27mm wide clinchers and dropping the pressure to 100/95. The ride is much better using the same tires and tubes.

Some people just shouldn't ride tubulars.

[coffeecake]

...and offer a safety factor when racing that makes it worth it for me.

Can you elaborate/explain what you mean by a "safety factor"?

[tuscanyswe]

I beilieve he is talking about beeing able to continue to ride and possibly not going down if a puncture were to occur at a high risk moment. A tubular will stay on the rim even if deflated and can possibly save you from taking a fall as theres still quite a lot of traction.

[cv1966]

I'm in the same boat. I really want to try carbon tubulars for the road but wonder if it's worth the hassle. For CX racing, no question tubies are the way to go.

[dekindy]

I would only do tubulars for the safety factor; which is the main reason that I switched to road tubeless.

[firerescuefin]

I enjoy riding tubulars.

Some people enjoy gardening....I don't.

I do find a quiet garage, cold beers, and gluing up tires to be relaxing. If the process seems awful to you, then yeah, the difference in ride quality probably doesn't merit the grief.

[FlashUNC]

Can you elaborate/explain what you mean by a "safety factor"?

If for some reason you have a catastrophic decompression -- huge blowout -- the tire is physically glued to the rim. Only thing keeping a clincher on is the air pressure in the tube and the hope the bead hook will stick. Its an extra layer of security that the tire isn't going anywhere regardless of the pressure in the tube.

The glued tire has saved my bacon on at least one blowout flat from becoming potentially far worse.

[djg21]

In the 80s and early 90s when clincher technology pretty much sucked. Now there are good, durable clinchers available and i don't get snakebite flats every time I ride them. The ride quality of a really good tubular is sublime, but a good clincher tire paired with a latex tube and wide rims like the HED Belgium is pretty close and far less expensive.

[jbrainin]

When you can find me a pair of clincher wheels that weigh ~1000 grams, lemme know. Until then, I'll be riding tubulars for >80% of my riding.

[carlineng]

I have a suspicion that the tubular vs. clincher debate is like comparing fine wines. In a double blind test, no one can *really* tell the difference. However, placebo is REAL, and if really believe you're having more fun and/or the ride is smoother, then the physical reality doesn't matter that much. Unless you're on the bicycle racing world champ stage.

It doesn't sound like OP is much of a believer, so I'd recommend sticking w/ good clinchers.

[JStonebarger]

I've never personally seen "the safety factor" come into play. I've had flats on clinchers, as have others, and I haven't seen anyone go down from it. I don't consider it as a factor, just a talking point.

It's true that comparing butyl and latex setups is comparing apples and oranges. I would go so far as to say that it's a big part of why tubulars "ride better" than clinchers -- the nicer tubulars have latex, so they're more supple, less likely to flat, and offer lower rolling resistance-- of course they ride better than a similar clincher used with butyl. The only time I use butyl is when fixing a flat on the road, since co2 leaks out of latex too quickly.

Even for cyclocross I prefer clinchers, and I'm competitive enough that I would switch if I thought tubulars actually performed better. I'm convinced that with latex tubes and a wider rim, clinchers offer all the performance, more versatility, and none of the hassle.

[firerescuefin]

I've had a catastrophic clincher failure at a high rate of speed and it went poorly.

More than a "talking point"

[old fat man]

I've never personally seen "the safety factor" come into play. I've had flats on clinchers, as have others, and I haven't seen anyone go down from it. I don't consider it as a factor, just a talking point.

It's true that comparing butyl and latex setups is comparing apples and oranges. I would go so far as to say that it's a big part of why tubulars "ride better" than clinchers -- the nicer tubulars have latex, so they're more supple, less likely to flat, and offer lower rolling resistance-- of course they ride better than a similar clincher used with butyl. The only time I use butyl is when fixing a flat on the road, since co2 leaks out of latex too quickly.

Even for cyclocross I prefer clinchers, and I'm competitive enough that I would switch if I thought tubulars actually performed better. I'm convinced that with latex tubes and a wider rim, clinchers offer all the performance, more versatility, and none of the hassle.

I agree that clinchers for cx offer none of the hassle and more versatility, but show me someone who has raced cx regularly on tubulars that has willingly gone back to clinchers because the clinchers performed the same as the tubulars.

Tubulars for the road are fine but not worth going out of my way to use. I've split my time this season between road tubeless and road tubulars. My only flat was on the tubulars and then they sat for a month before I was motivated enough to glue a new one.

I'd pick up a 1100 gram tubular wheelset though if I could. That'd be nice.

[JStonebarger]

I've seen tubulars rolled in road and cross events. Many times. And yet I don't claim they're unsafe.

[Lionel]

I've had a catastrophic clincher failure at a high rate of speed and it went poorly.

More than a "talking point"

same here

[firerescuefin]

I've seen tubulars rolled in road and cross events. Many times. And yet I don't claim they're unsafe.

Well glued tubulars don't roll right off the rim. That's a problem for a tubular user if A) They don't know how to glue them B) Let the glue get old and not re-glue them.

Not going to argue the point. For me given their failure modes, and my own experiences, they're safer.

[djg21]

I've had a catastrophic clincher failure at a high rate of speed and it went poorly.

More than a "talking point"

And I had a tubular roll while cornering hard during a crit on a 100 degree day. About 4-5" of a Conti Sprinter tubie separated from the basetape, which remained glued to the rim. Just saying. ···· sometimes happens notwithstanding.

[JStonebarger]

Well glued tubulars don't roll right off the rim. That's a problem for a tubular user if A) They don't know how to glue them B) Let the glue get old and not re-glue them.

Granted. That said, my personal (and unscientific) observation is that most users A) don't know how to glue them, B) let the glue get old, and/or C) don't know a shop that knows how to glue them.

[professerr]

Hey, can we keep bring this back to the OP topic: wide rim clinchers vs tubulars, not the general clincher vs tubular debate. I’m interested too in the thoughts of others who have actually done a real comparison between state of the art tubulars vs. state of the art wide rim (or even extra wide) clinchers.

I raced on tubulars for years, am fairly adept with them, and still have several sets that I ride on from time to time (nothing close to state of the art: GP4s and GEL330s with Pave and Corsa tires). I also purchased some HED Ardennes and ride them with Open Corsa and Veloflex tires and latex tubes. I’ve not done an actual comparison, back to back on the same bike, and even then it wouldn’t be fair because the wheels are so different. But having said that, since getting the HEDs I dont think I’ve ridden tubulars once -- I’ve actually got a several repaired tires still sitting in the envelopes TireAlert returned them to me in. That fact sort of speaks for itself -- the wide rim wheels ride and descend significantly enough better than my regular clincher (C24s) wheels that my incentive to bother remounting my tubulars is about zero. That said, without having done back to back test, my sense is my even my very old GEL330s with modern Corsas probably ride better, just not better enough for me to bother. Actually, it is more "different" than it is "better". GP4s with Paves on the other hand are sort of pigs, not to mention Paves have the umbrella effect (if I ride them, I will flat). So I’ll probably only ride them for nostalgia now.

[s_curran]

EDIT: nervermind, off topic.

[thwart]

To each his own...

Clinchers are great (especially 25's or 27's on wide rims); tubulars are great.

But cost driving the decision between the two---not so much.

Nowadays you can get very good tubular tires for under $40. Tough to match that with top end clincher tires and latex tubes.

[tuscanyswe]

To each his own...

Clinchers are great (especially 25's or 27's on wide rims); tubulars are great.

But cost driving the decision between the two---not so much.

Nowadays you can get very good tubular tires for under $40. Tough to match that with top end clincher tires and latex tubes.

What good tubulars are out there for under 40? Hook me up :)

[ultraman6970]

Learn to glue my own stuff when I was like 13 y/o when I started racing... I don't ride that much but I've gotten far more flats using clinchers when I started using them, that was like in 2004ish.

Not saying clinchers don't work but for the ride I do rather keep the faithfull tubbies. As for the claim that are a mess and stuff, I always say this... if u are going to put like 2 pounds of glue in the rims, obviously you'll end up with glue even inside of the underwear.

Somebody said that clinchers back 80s and 90s were far worse than todays? yes it is true, back in the day clinchers were way far behind than clincher.

[ultraman6970]

Not fancy stuff but they work... For the ride I do I get 3x50 bucks ones. Not as super quality as a 300 bucks one but again... all in perspective... for the ride I do I can get maybe from june to nov in a set of those cheap ones. Again... is not a 300 bucks tubular but for what I do is more than enough. Like them better than continentals clinchers that are like 60 bucks a pop. Cheaper to maintain too... puncture? sure are old already. toss them and put new ones, for 3x50 bucks you can have those luxuries.

Again... not a 200 bucks tubular ok?

What good tubulars are out there for under 40? Hook me up :)

[thwart]

What good tubulars are out there for under 40? Hook me up :)

Ribble/UK: $38 for Vittoria Corsa Elite 25 mm tires. Free shipping to the US over $100.

And, I missed this deal, but they had (perhaps it's still available) a 13% off sale.

[oldpotatoe]

In the 80s and early 90s when clincher technology pretty much sucked. Now there are good, durable clinchers available and i don't get snakebite flats every time I ride them. The ride quality of a really good tubular is sublime, but a good clincher tire paired with a latex tube and wide rims like the HED Belgium is pretty close and far less expensive.

Good clincher and latex tube is about the same $ as a tubular, like a Corsa CX or Elite(which might be cheaper).

[djg21]

Good clincher and latex tube is about the same $ as a tubular, like a Corsa CX or Elite(which might be cheaper).

The prices undoubtedly are close initially. But what happens when you puncture a tubular. I used to repair my own, and it was therapeutic in some respects, but I don't miss it at all. Even with a really good repair, the punctured tubular more often than not was relegated to being lashed to my seat rails and used as a spare, while I shelled out $50+ (20+ yrs ago) for a new tire. Good tubulars are far more expensive now.

I now use Conti GP 4000s clinchers that I can pick up for around $50 ea. I buy Vittoria latex tubes in bulk (10+) every now and then and always have gotten them for well under $15. I rarely flat, and when I do, I've most often been able to replace the tube and then patch the old one.

[oldpotatoe]

The prices undoubtedly are close initially. But what happens when you puncture a tubular. I used to repair my own, and it was therapeutic in some respects, but I don't miss it at all. Even with a really good repair, the punctured tubular more often than not was relegated to being lashed to my seat rails and used as a spare, while I shelled out $50+ (20+ yrs ago) for a new tire. Good tubulars are far more expensive now.

I now use Conti GP 4000s clinchers that I can pick up for around $50 ea. I buy Vittoria latex tubes in bulk (10+) every now and then and always have gotten them for well under $15. I rarely flat, and when I do, I've most often been able to replace the tube and then patch the old one.

I fix it. Like gluing, it really isn't a black art.

You said clinchers are 'far less expensive', but tubulars aren't 'far more expensive'. Is all.

[thwart]

Good tubulars are far more expensive now.Not really.

I now use Conti GP 4000s clinchers that I can pick up for around $50 ea. I buy Vittoria latex tubes in bulk (10+) every now and then and always have gotten them for well under $15. I rarely flat, and when I do, I've most often been able to replace the tube and then patch the old one.

So… to play the devil's advocate a bit further: for the cost of two Conti 4000S tires and latex tubes, you can now get three very good tubular tires.
And have a bit of change leftover.

Also… I'm not yet really a long-term tubular tire user (as many here are), but so far my experience is fewer flat tires with tubulars.

[shovelhd]

Hey, can we keep bring this back to the OP topic: wide rim clinchers vs tubulars, not the general clincher vs tubular debate. I’m interested too in the thoughts of others who have actually done a real comparison between state of the art tubulars vs. state of the art wide rim (or even extra wide) clinchers.

I raced on tubulars for years, am fairly adept with them, and still have several sets that I ride on from time to time (nothing close to state of the art: GP4s and GEL330s with Pave and Corsa tires). I also purchased some HED Ardennes and ride them with Open Corsa and Veloflex tires and latex tubes. I’ve not done an actual comparison, back to back on the same bike, and even then it wouldn’t be fair because the wheels are so different. But having said that, since getting the HEDs I dont think I’ve ridden tubulars once -- I’ve actually got a several repaired tires still sitting in the envelopes TireAlert returned them to me in. That fact sort of speaks for itself -- the wide rim wheels ride and descend significantly enough better than my regular clincher (C24s) wheels that my incentive to bother remounting my tubulars is about zero. That said, without having done back to back test, my sense is my even my very old GEL330s with modern Corsas probably ride better, just not better enough for me to bother. Actually, it is more "different" than it is "better". GP4s with Paves on the other hand are sort of pigs, not to mention Paves have the umbrella effect (if I ride them, I will flat). So I’ll probably only ride them for nostalgia now.

Which is what I did short of swapping out my butyl clincher tubes for latex just for you to get an Internet opinion.

I suspect there aren't very many people like me that have wide clinchers and sewups on similar wheels. Wheel and rim build also have a lot to do with ride and handling.

[djg21]

So… to play the devil's advocate a bit further: for the cost of two Conti 4000S tires and latex tubes, you can now get three very good tubular tires.
And have a bit of change leftover.

I suppose it depends on where you ride and how often you get flats. Flat more than one tubular in a short period, and you will buying additional tires and/or learning how to repair tubulars (like OldPotato says, it's not rocket science; but IMO, it's a pain in the ass).

Additionally, you probably will carry only one spare tubular while riding. Flat once, and you will have to cut your ride short and head home, take your chances, or hope that one of your riding buddies is on tubies and can give you a spare should you flat a second time. It's much easier to carry a couple of spare tubes and a patch kit than it is to carry a couple of spare tubular tires.

Also… I'm not yet really a long-term tubular tire user (as many here are), but so far my experience is fewer flat tires with tubulars.

You most definitely cannot get snakebite flats with tubulars. But properly installed and inflated clinchers with latex tubes also are less prone to flatting than clinchers with butyl tubes, and are just as durable as good tubulars (which also have latex tubes). Of course, if you ride on glass- and debris-strewn roads, all bets are off.

[JStonebarger]

...You most definitely cannot get snakebite flats with tubulars...

Sure you can. And probably just as easily with tubulars as with clinchers with latex tubes. Bottom out with enough force and either will suffer a snakebite.

http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/snakebites.html

[Ralph]

There are so many variables. What kind of riding you do. What kinds of roads you ride on. Personal preference. How much time you want to spend on tires. What your tire budget is, etc.

I currently ride 125-150 miles per week on very smooth roads. I weigh about 155, and don't have problems with any kind of tires, and have few flats, no matter what I'm riding. Rode tubulars fpr 30 years, agree mounting tubulars no big deal.

However......for me and my riding.....clinchers are so much less hassle.....and I don't think nice clinchers hold me back, or slow me down.....I would not even consider going back to tubulars. Well....I would if I was on a race team and someone else bought them for me.

[christian]

If tubulars seem like a hassle, they're probably not for you. I made the jump a few years ago and find the mounting process different but not more or less of a hassle. Presently, my road bike has tubulars, my cross bike has tubulars, and my Strada Bianca bike has clinchers. Horses for courses!

[happycampyer]

Tubulars are absolutely more trouble than they are worth.

[shovelhd]

Tubulars are absolutely more trouble than they are worth.

Definitely.

For you.

[happycampyer]

Definitely.

For you.Let's just say that I made that comment with a smidge of irony.

[shovelhd]

And so did I.

[El Chaba]

On the repair of tubulars......90% of the time, the repair of a tubular involves the locating of the puncture to remove the object-if necessary...and then the removal of the valve core and injection of a small amount of sealant...replacement of core, reinflation and riding away. The remaining 10% that cannot be fixed this way fall under the category of "catastrophic failure" that would destry any tire regardless of type.

[velomonkey]

Wheel whore here - enve 3.4 clinchers - Belgium plus - mavic cosmic slr - mavic ultimate - I have had them all.

In my opinion, and really I don't know anyone that would differ. Clinchers are close but tubular still owns the day. Latex tubes and wide rims are not a panacea. They aren't. The wheel corners better.

After all this - here is where I finished.

Fulcrum racing 1 two way fit - give me a 20mm wide rim with tubeless any day over a wide rim and clincher. You want close to tubular tubeless is there. Most people haven't tried them. Then for real fast days - bora 1s tubular.

The Belgium plus, liked it but too wide - never felt fast. Mavic slr - my favorite clincher aero wheel - tubeless still rides better. My least favorite wheel was also the most expensive - enve 3/4 clinchers - didn't matter the tube, didn't matter the psi, didn't matter the tire - it just rode like junk. Oh and it braked like poop, too.

Tubular is the most effective and best performance tire - clincher the easiest and most cost savings - tubeless is in between the two.

[chiasticon]

Even for cyclocross I prefer clinchers, and I'm competitive enough that I would switch if I thought tubulars actually performed better. I'm convinced that with latex tubes and a wider rim, clinchers offer all the performance, more versatility, and none of the hassle.

i had this point of view. i raced cx on wide clincher rims with latex tubes and quality open tubular tires with a high tpi. they felt great! i loved them! until i was fighting a guy for first place (with 3rd place over a minute down) and had to DNF because the tire rolled off the rim. too low of pressure. ok, so up the pressure, right? now it rides like garbage and i can't corner as well.

so i get set up with my first set of tubs. again, wide rims, but with the tubular version of the same tire as above (and the tubs have latex tubes as well). and back to the pressure i was running before the DNF incident. back to feeling and riding awesome, with far less fear that my tire will come off when i'm running pressures appropriate for cross. and to answer the OP's question: they *feel* basically the same to me as my previous setup, when i was running the same pressure. maybe i'd feel a bigger difference if this story were all about road tires, i don't know.

[ntb1001]

I use both, and a tubeless set up as well..and I still prefer tubulars.

The clinchers I use are built with H plus Son rims with Velomax tires and latex tubes. The ride is great..as well I like the ride on my Campy Eurus 2way fit tubeless..very close to tubular.

I have my 2 older boys (16&14) on carbon tubular wheels.

Personally I find tubulars easier to deal with on the road..no hassles with tire irons and tubes...just peel off the flat and put on the spare and you're off.

I get a lot less flats with tubulars than clinchers...and when I switched my boys over...a LOT less flats...actually almost never. They used to get pinch flats because they would ride over potholes and other things too hard as they don't have much finesse with riding style yet. Once we switched to tubulars..the pinch flats stopped..although they have perhaps developed better skill as well.

[s_curran]

i had this point of view. i raced cx on wide clincher rims with latex tubes and quality open tubular tires with a high tpi. they felt great! i loved them! until i was fighting a guy for first place (with 3rd place over a minute down) and had to DNF because the tire rolled off the rim. too low of pressure. ok, so up the pressure, right? now it rides like garbage and i can't corner as well.

so i get set up with my first set of tubs. again, wide rims, but with the tubular version of the same tire as above (and the tubs have latex tubes as well). and back to the pressure i was running before the DNF incident. back to feeling and riding awesome, with far less fear that my tire will come off when i'm running pressures appropriate for cross. and to answer the OP's question: they *feel* basically the same to me as my previous setup, when i was running the same pressure. maybe i'd feel a bigger difference if this story were all about road tires, i don't know.

Exactly, I am glueing up a set now. I blew what was looking like my best race by rolling the tire halfway through. Also, they just squirm around under me. Sure I could have run higher pressure, but needed it for this course. All I want is more consistancy and stability.

[thwart]

There are so many variables. What kind of riding you do. What kinds of roads you ride on. Personal preference. How much time you want to spend on tires. What your tire budget is, etc.

I currently ride 125-150 miles per week on very smooth roads.

As usual, Ralph is right. And of course, your own personal experience, anecdotal as it is, will probably dictate what you do.

For example, recently I experienced a double snakebite flat while riding clinchers on a local road well known for its poor condition and many huge potholes. Had to make the 'call of shame'. And I honestly don't flat often… I've never had that happen before.

A few days later I was out with my wife on a different bike, tubulars. She was riding in front of me and 'forgot' to point out a 2 inch rock which I hit dead square. Just kept on riding… tire was fine.

We are blessed in this area with countless paved and lightly traveled back roads. But the flipside is that many are poorly maintained. Fortunately there's not a lot of glass and such.

And so for me tubulars seem to make good sense. Super smooth, grippy ride and less need to be hypervigilant for holes, rocks, etc. And now you can get good tubulars for less than an arm and a leg. Yep, a bag with PitStop and spare tubular goes along...

[Ralph]

To me.....the real advantage to tubulars these days.....and I agree hi end tubulars are superior to anything else.....I just don't want to buy them.......the biggest advantage to tubulars is not necessarily the tires themselves.....it's the carbon rims available for tubulars that are a lot lighter and probably stronger due to rim design of each, than comparable priced carbon clincher rims.

It's hard to argue against a set of 1200 G (or so) medium or deep depth carbon tubular rims with very hi end tubular tires. You can't really compare a clincher rim to that for the highest performance level on the road.

[mister]

There is a reason the pros ride box section tubular rims at PR. They ride awesome and durable.

[carpediemracing]

There is a reason the pros ride box section tubular rims at PR. They ride awesome and durable.

Most pros use carbon now. With 250k of racing it's also good to be efficient in the wind, etc. This is an article from 2013, seems my Google is biased towards older articles.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/bikes-and-tech/the-torqued-wrench-ambrosio-nemesis-wheels-expire-in-the-pro-peloton_281545

[carpediemracing]

Personally I don't find that tubulars ride that much differently from clinchers, at least at the nicer level of clincher tires. I have HED Bastognes (23mm Ardennes type rims), HED Jet 6/9 (same kind of 23mm wide rim), Stinger 6s, Stinger 7/9, and Stinger 4 (I haven't ridden the last wheel yet).

However, although I think of myself as not very hard on equipment, I seem to go through the nice clincher tires very quickly. My last batch of "nice tires", four Pro3s, I cut all of them in two weeks. On the same roads I almost never flatted the other times I went out, including during that same trip (SoCal area).

With tubulars they seem pretty good. I mean, okay, I remember a couple very early-lifecycle failures, but many of my tires still hold air when I retire them. I have a number of "nice" clinchers that have cuts in the casing. Otherwise they're pretty new, no flat area on the rear tread. I don't know what to do with them so they sit in a box.

(Actually I think I'm going to cut up a tire or two and use it to line the plastic wheels on Junior's electric powered tractor. Since it's one wheel drive it slips like mad, and the thing understeers like mad because the front tires just slide sideways on pavement.)

The main reason I use tubulars is because the wheels are lighter for a given amount of aero and the are typically available long before a clincher version of the same wheel (like the HED "Vanquish" which is supposed to be a HED Stinger 6 clincher, doesn't exist yet).

Secondary reasons include durability/reliability (nice tubulars last a while under me, nice clinchers don't) and safety (can ride a flat a bit, although not as much on the new wide rims).

I feel comfortable bombing through broken up pavement on tubulars that I wouldn't want to hit on clinchers.

I tend to run high pressures. 120 psi for tubulars, 95-105 psi for clinchers. 23mm, 23c.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I run 25mm Veloflex clinchers and latex tubes on 24mm Pacenti rims for training and 25mm Veloflex tubies on HED Stinger 6 for racing. Honestly, the rim makes more difference in feel. But when taking a hard corner the tubs just feel more solid. And on long fast descents, I think about that safety factor Shovl mentioned. But riding in a straight line at similar pressure the two feel very very similar. I find gluing no problem, and Tire Alert repair is only a couple bucks more than a latex tube. But frankly I flat less on tubies so that cost doesn't weigh on me too much.


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[rustychisel]

All good info.

If you have to try tubulars, borrow a set of wheels.

For the budget conscious, if you buy a set of wheels 'to try' you'll probably end up buying a set of tubular tyres. Ah, but you should buy 3, then you have the spare you're likely to need at some point. So you're in for 3 tyres, and the wheels then you think up ways of justifying using them. Then you puncture and you have another damn tyre hanging around waiting for repair. And you buy another....

With clinchers, it's the cost of a tube (or a tube of glue and a patch or 2).