OT NCAA's

[Len J]

Well so far today, the results are not supporting all the Big East Apologists who were whining about Cincinnati not getting in. BC struggles to a double OT win against a weak 13 seed, Seton Hall loses big, and Margette just loses to a lower seeded team.

Maybe Syracuse can do better tonight.

Love this tournament

Len

[Johny]

BC is a ACC team.

[roman meal]

was 18-11 so far this year. I don't think they were expecting as much as in previous years. Just be patient. The cream will rise to the top in the East.

RM :beer:

[Len J]

BC is a ACC team.

I'm an idiot.

Len

[Smiley]

BC is only one year removed from the big east , I have them picked to go farther so I pray .

[Len J]

was 18-11 so far this year. I don't think they were expecting as much as in previous years. Just be patient. The cream will rise to the top in the East.

RM :beer:

And syracuse goes down.

What an overrated confrence.

Len

[Argos]

Lame. Lame. Lame.

My wife is an SU Alum, along with a few other schools, but that's her under-grad. Now Her team just lost to my Sister-in-Laws old Stomping ground, A&M.

I could care less about 'Cuse, 'cept for the fact that I'll have to listen to crap for a week now!

Dammit! :crap:

[Sandy]

was 18-11 so far this year. I don't think they were expecting as much as in previous years. Just be patient. The cream will rise to the top in the East.

RM :beer:

But will it be sweet cream or sour cream?? :)


Sweet Sour Serotta Sandy

[Bobbo]

Lame. Lame. Lame.

My wife is an SU Alum, along with a few other schools, but that's her under-grad. Now Her team just lost to my Sister-in-Laws old Stomping ground, A&M.

I could care less about 'Cuse, 'cept for the fact that I'll have to listen to crap for a week now!

Dammit! :crap:

Disappointing loss. But let's face it, Syracuse was in the tournament solely because McNamara carried his team through sheer force of will to a Big East Championship. His teammates actually contributed, resulting in four consecutive wins.

So they get to the big dance, G-Mac falters, and predictably, his supporting cast disappears. Oh well, I feel badly for McNamara, but what a ride he gave Syracuse fans for four years!

[Len J]

Disappointing loss. But let's face it, Syracuse was in the tournament solely because McNamara carried his team through sheer force of will to a Big East Championship. His teammates actually contributed, resulting in four consecutive wins.

So they get to the big dance, G-Mac falters, and predictably, his supporting cast disappears. Oh well, I feel badly for McNamara, but what a ride he gave Syracuse fans for four years!

listening to all of the (New York biased) "Bracket experts" (Katz is an idiot), in the week leading up to the seedings, opining that the Big Easr deserved 9 teams in the tournament was absurd. And it's being proven out now.

They deserved at the most 5 and probably 4 teams. U Conn, Nova, Pitt, & either West Virginia or Georgetown are legitimate tourney teams. Syracuse made it only because of winning the tournement. The rest took spots away from deserving "Hungrier" teams.....which would have made the tournament that much better.

One of the remaining 5 will lose today....watch.

Len

[roman meal]

Sour cream. Definately sour cream there. But, the tournament has just begun.

[Lincoln]

listening to all of the (New York biased) "Bracket experts" (Katz is an idiot), in the week leading up to the seedings, opining that the Big Easr deserved 9 teams in the tournament was absurd. And it's being proven out now.

They deserved at the most 5 and probably 4 teams. U Conn, Nova, Pitt, & either West Virginia or Georgetown are legitimate tourney teams. Syracuse made it only because of winning the tournement. The rest took spots away from deserving "Hungrier" teams.....which would have made the tournament that much better.

One of the remaining 5 will lose today....watch.

Len

So, if the Big East got too many, who got short-changed? Personally I would rather see a top team from a second-tier conference get in instead of pack-filler from one of the big conferences but I think SU was as deserving as Florida St, Maryland, Michigan and Stanford.

[IXXI]

Arizona in the finals.

[roman meal]

Duke and Villanova in the finals. But Gonzaga looks like it got seriously fired up after nearly plunking it in the first round.

[vaxn8r]

Arizona in the finals.
I don't think this is Lute's year. But UCLA is playing very good ball.

[znfdl]

How about them Blue Devils....

[roman meal]

And syracuse goes down.

What an overrated confrence.

Len


So the Big East has four teams in the sweet sixteen, more than any other conference. Overrated?

RM

[Len J]

So the Big East has four teams in the sweet sixteen, more than any other conference. Overrated?

RM

As I said previously...they deserved no more than 5 teams in the tournament......the confrence was very top heavy.

But after the first 4 or 5 teams, it was a pretty weak confrence.

Len

PS My comment about overrated referred to the confrence and all the TV giys lobbying for 9+ bids to the NCAA's......in that way they were overrated...I have Nova & U Conn in my final four.

[ClutchCargo]

So the Big East has four teams in the sweet sixteen, more than any other conference. Overrated?

RM

does the Big Least have in conference now, 24 or 25? I forget.


;)

[znfdl]

So the Big East has four teams in the sweet sixteen, more than any other conference. Overrated?
RM

The Big east has 4 teams in the sweet 16 a 50% success rate, which is equal to most other conferences.

ACC had 4 invitations and 2 to the sweet 16 etc.

[roman meal]

The Big east has 4 teams in the sweet 16 a 50% success rate, which is equal to most other conferences.

ACC had 4 invitations and 2 to the sweet 16 etc.

Just look at the record.
Since the league began play in 1979-80, Big East teams own a 205-121
(.629) record in NCAA play. The league was 7-6 last season and 31-14 over
the last three seasons. That's the top record of any Division I conference.
NCAA Record (2003-05):

Big East 31-14 .688
Big 12 30-16 .652
ACC 28-13 .683
Big Ten 22-13 .629
SEC 18-17 .514
Conference USA 16-14 .533


Big East also leads in sweet sixteen appearances.
West Virginia and Villanova made the regional semifinals last year. The Big East has had the most teams reach the Sweet 16 in the last three seasons.
Regional Semifinalists for the last three years combined, not even including this year-
Big East 9
Big 12 8
Atlantic Coast 8

Jeez, the Big Ten didn't even place a team in the sweet sixteen this year.

I'm not a big fan of the Big East hype earlier this season either, I just like to place numbers over irrational jingoism. The Big East comes out on top of these numbers.
RM

[znfdl]

lets look at succes rate:

National Championships since 1990:

Duke 3
UNC 2
Conn 2
No one else more than 1

1990 UNLV (35-5)
1991 Duke (32-7)
1992 Duke (34-2)
1993 North Carolina (34-4)
1994 Arkansas (31-3)
1995 UCLA (31-2)
1996 Kentucky (34-2)
1997 Arizona (25-9)
1998 Kentucky (35-4)
1999 Connecticut (34-2)
2000 Michigan St. (32-7)
2001 Duke (35-4)
2002 Maryland (32-4)
2003 Syracuse (30-5)
2004 Connecticut (33-6)
2005 North Carolina (33-4)

[roman meal]

does the Big Least have in conference now, 24 or 25? I forget.


;)


16

RM

[72gmc]

NCAA Record (2003-05):

Big East 31-14 .688
Big 12 30-16 .652
ACC 28-13 .683
Big Ten 22-13 .629
SEC 18-17 .514
Conference USA 16-14 .533

Just for fun, where does the Pac 10 figure in these rankings? You may have left them out because they're below C-USA, I realize, but it always amuses me how often conversations about "top conferences" in college athletics leave out the West Coast.

[roman meal]

lets look at succes rate:

National Championships since 1990:

Duke 3
UNC 2
Conn 2
No one else more than 1

1990 UNLV (35-5)
1991 Duke (32-7)
1992 Duke (34-2)
1993 North Carolina (34-4)
1994 Arkansas (31-3)
1995 UCLA (31-2)
1996 Kentucky (34-2)
1997 Arizona (25-9)
1998 Kentucky (35-4)
1999 Connecticut (34-2)
2000 Michigan St. (32-7)
2001 Duke (35-4)
2002 Maryland (32-4)
2003 Syracuse (30-5)
2004 Connecticut (33-6)
2005 North Carolina (33-4)


Puts it in too narrow a focus. Obviously Duke, UNC, and Connecticut were extrordinary teams that dominated those years, as the single titles by other teams in other years attest. I was stating conference averages across time in my earlier post, which looks at depth, not only the dominant teams of the year.

[roman meal]

Just for fun, where does the Pac 10 figure in these rankings? You may have left them out because they're below C-USA, I realize, but it always amuses me how often conversations about "top conferences" in college athletics leave out the West Coast.


West coast?

:confused:

[Ozz]

...But UCLA is playing very good ball.

Not good enough! ;)

Go Zags!

[Len J]

Just look at the record.
Since the league began play in 1979-80, Big East teams own a 205-121
(.629) record in NCAA play. The league was 7-6 last season and 31-14 over
the last three seasons. That's the top record of any Division I conference.
NCAA Record (2003-05):

Big East 31-14 .688
Big 12 30-16 .652
ACC 28-13 .683
Big Ten 22-13 .629
SEC 18-17 .514
Conference USA 16-14 .533


Big East also leads in sweet sixteen appearances.
West Virginia and Villanova made the regional semifinals last year. The Big East has had the most teams reach the Sweet 16 in the last three seasons.
Regional Semifinalists for the last three years combined, not even including this year-
Big East 9
Big 12 8
Atlantic Coast 8

Jeez, the Big Ten didn't even place a team in the sweet sixteen this year.

I'm not a big fan of the Big East hype earlier this season either, I just like to place numbers over irrational jingoism. The Big East comes out on top of these numbers.
RM

The problem with looking at it this way are as follows......

1.) 79/80 is too long a time....if you looked at it over the last 6 years, they would be at the bottom &
2.) Success in the tournament (for mid level teams) is very dependent on seeding. Look at GW this year.....they should have been at least a 5 seed in which case they wouldn't have ahd to play Duke in the second round and would have won at least one more game.
3.) It is also dependant on bracket placement. Get in a bracket with many upsets, like U Conn this year and you have a much easier path to the final 4.

No doubt that The Big east has been a good confrence (although this year is the first strong year in a while) but over time it's no better than the ACC or any of the other big confrences.

Len

[72gmc]

Not good enough! ;)

Go Zags!

To clarify, that's the Gonzaga Washington beat. And the UCLA Washington beat twice. ;)

It's okay, roman meal et al. Go ahead and ignore the Pac 10. It's not as if our fourth place team took Villanova right to the wire yesterday...

[Ozz]

To clarify, that's the Gonzaga Washington beat...
in Seattle, barely, in a heck of a game!

Therefore, Zags will beat UCLA

Let's see 'em both win three more games for the rematch!

[dave thompson]

in Seattle, barely, in a heck of a game!

Therefore, Zags will beat UCLA

Let's see 'em both win two more games for the rematch!
Yowza!!!

[roman meal]

The problem with looking at it this way are as follows......

1.) 79/80 is too long a time....if you looked at it over the last 6 years, they would be at the bottom &
2.) Success in the tournament (for mid level teams) is very dependent on seeding. Look at GW this year.....they should have been at least a 5 seed in which case they wouldn't have ahd to play Duke in the second round and would have won at least one more game.
3.) It is also dependant on bracket placement. Get in a bracket with many upsets, like U Conn this year and you have a much easier path to the final 4.

No doubt that The Big east has been a good confrence (although this year is the first strong year in a while) but over time it's no better than the ACC or any of the other big confrences.

Len


Those are good qualifiers, Len-

Honestly, I think that the overall differences in averages between the ACC and the big east are not significant, overblown, and especially meaningless when you add the factors of bracket placement and seeding. I just wanted to float them out ther to see what the response was. They were harvested from the big east's own press releases at the end of the season. Your specifier over time is important, too. You can't take these averages and say one conference is significantly better than the other. With #1 above, it would be fun to plot all of the conferences successes across time. You would come up with a rollercoaster, especially between the ACC and the big east. Also, with #2 and #3, it would be fun to examine what championship teams had a easier time to the final four over the years, and whether that played a significant role in the championship outcome.


Vince

[roman meal]

To clarify, that's the Gonzaga Washington beat. And the UCLA Washington beat twice. ;)

It's okay, roman meal et al. Go ahead and ignore the Pac 10. It's not as if our fourth place team took Villanova right to the wire yesterday...

Villanova stated later that it "didn't matter" how close the game was, it was still a win. Either incredibly myopic, or kinda disrespectful of the team that almost took you out. Also, be careful how and when you signal for a time out.. That was two points right there.

[Ozz]

Villanova stated later that it "didn't matter" how close the game was, it was still a win. Either incredibly myopic, or kinda disrespectful of the team that almost took you out. Also, be careful how and when you signal for a time out.. That was two points right there.
You're right, I guess that is why they only got fourth in that conference out on the frontier. ;)

Good luck to y'all! :banana:

[72gmc]

Yowza!!!

A rematch would be great. There's the small matter of knocking off UConn before that can happen...

[Len J]

Villanova stated later that it "didn't matter" how close the game was, it was still a win. Either incredibly myopic, or kinda disrespectful of the team that almost took you out. Also, be careful how and when you signal for a time out.. That was two points right there.

and my take was that Villanova was going to win that game no matter what Arizona did........sometimes games just come across that way.

Tha being said, I like the way UCLA has been playing, they've won what, 9 straight.....only scare is that they are so young. Washington is amystery to me.......Beating Illinois wasn't that big to me, and otherwise, I haven't seen much of them.

Should be a great Weekend.

Len

[Len J]

A rematch would be great. There's the small matter of knocking off UConn before that can happen...

Not only U Conn....but for the Zags to play Washington, it would be in the final........Wash would have to beat U Conn, Prob Wichita State, and probaly Villanove (or possibly Fla). Meanwhile the Zags only have to beat UCLA, Memphis or Bradley, And then probably either Texas or Duke....a veritible murders row.

I think a rematch is a longshot.

Len

[72gmc]

I think a rematch is a longshot.

Len

Yeah, but the tournament is all about dreaming, right? Although I noticed that the espn tourney challenge did not recognize/retain one of my alternate brackets, specifically the one that had Washington winning the national title. Even their computer didn't buy that one.

The hats in my closet say UW and Duke. These days I wear them on a rotating schedule.

[Ozz]

Not only U Conn....but for the Zags to play Washington, it would be in the final........Wash would have to beat U Conn, Prob Wichita State, and probaly Villanove (or possibly Fla). Meanwhile the Zags only have to beat UCLA, Memphis or Bradley, And then probably either Texas or Duke....a veritible murders row.

I think a rematch is a longshot.

Len
I like to think Memphis, Bradley, Texas or Duke will need to face Gonzaga to get into the Finals... :beer:

What makes this tournament great is the upsets...the kids are so young, it can happen any time, to anyone. If an underdog gets hot, and goes on a run, it is easy for a favorite to get rattled and lose it.

Gonzaga has a good shot at beating UCLA

Memphis is good, so I think they can get it done vs Bradley.

If the Zags can get past Memphis and play Duke - that game will priceless with Morrison vs Re****

Sure, a UW vs Gonzaga rematch is a longshot...but, I really don't care which Huskies the Bulldogs end up facing! ;)

[vaxn8r]

and my take was that Villanova was going to win that game no matter what Arizona did........sometimes games just come across that way.

Tha being said, I like the way UCLA has been playing, they've won what, 9 straight.....only scare is that they are so young. Washington is amystery to me.......Beating Illinois wasn't that big to me, and otherwise, I haven't seen much of them.

Should be a great Weekend.

Len
PAC 10 has 23% of all NCAA hoops champions.

UCLA is playing tough. I don't think they go all the way because of their youth. But Howland has UCLA back in the thick of things. I don't see them falling back to the pack while he is there....kinda like Stanford with Montgomery, they were always tough. Zags have been playing with fire for a while now. Too many close games...seems like they are due to lose one of 'em. I like to watch Gonzaga and respect the heck out of Mark Few. What he's done there is very impressive. He's from Eugene and I wish he was coaching here.

UW gets little attention but they should. They are absolutely relentless on defense and the boards. Very physical for a West coast team. If you have never heard of Brandon Roy, I expect you will, either through this tourney or in the NBA.

As for Zona and Nova....UA was pretty awful, for Lute's standards this year. This has to be their worst team in years. Anybody that watched them this year would agree.

[Len J]

PAC 10 has 23% of all NCAA hoops champions.

.

Yea, but they have only won 2 in the last 30 years (1976 on)....while the ACC has won 8 the Big East has won 5, & the Big 10 has won 6. 4 teams have won more in the last 30 years individually than the whole Pac 10.....Indiana, NC, Duke & Kentucky have all one 3 each.

It's fun to compare.....& means absolutly nothing about this year.

Len

PS...Did you know that Duke has been a runner up 6 times, NC & Kentucky 4 times?

[72gmc]

I like to watch Gonzaga and respect the heck out of Mark Few. He's from Eugene and I wish he was coaching here.

On the one hand, that would be good for the level of play in the conference. On the other hand, that would be good for the Ducks...

[vaxn8r]

On the one hand, that would be good for the level of play in the conference. On the other hand, that would be good for the Ducks...
It would be great for the Ducks. Many feel Ernie Kent underachieves with his talent. Evidence of that would be 3 top 15 draft picks in 3 years yet no NCAA in 3 years. Not even an NIT in the last 2. Not good when considering what he has to work with (great conference, this team has several McDonalds AA's, great donors....Mr Knight and others...) I'd take Mark Few in a heartbeat.