Williams Wheels?

[oldguy00]

Anyone have experience with some of their more recent offerings, like the 58mm carbon clincher?
The few reviews I've read seem to be positive about the rims, but mixed about the quality of the build (needing re-tensioning, etc) and possibly low quality hubs/bearings.....
But the price is a lot nicer that Zipp 404's...

Thx!

[veloduffer]

You might want to check Boyd and November for similarly priced wheels. Both have good reputations. I've used Boyd for several years without issue, and customer service is noted to be top notch.

If you are looking exclusively at carbon, i recommend Reynolds carbon wheels. Better price (by a lot) and reputation for durability.

[oldguy00]

You might want to check Boyd and November for similarly priced wheels. Both have good reputations. I've used Boyd for several years without issue, and customer service is noted to be top notch.

If you are looking exclusively at carbon, i recommend Reynolds carbon wheels. Better price (by a lot) and reputation for durability.

Thanks. Boyd seems to be 25%+ more expensive. Not familiar with November?
Excel Sports has the 41mm Reynolds Assault SLG on sale for 1199, so that is another option, although I'm kind of interested in getting a deeper wheel..

[oldguy00]

Anyone know where Williams wheels are actually assembled?
I do like that Boyd and November are assembled in the US. Maybe Boyd will have a sale over the holidays/winter... :)

[metalheart]

Some friends have bought William's wheels and they are pleased with them. We picked them up at his shop and they seemed very customer-service oriented. Might be worth a call if the rates from Canada are not prohibitive. Another option from someone in this area is RaceRim (you can google them). He makes wheels using Reynolds rims and also does an excellent job according to the folks I have asked who have owned them and I met and talked with the owner about his wheels. For example, he as a current sale on 50mm 20/24 for 1095, plus 200 for white hubs. Seems attractive to me for a deeper wheel.

[eippo1]

I know this isn't the question, but often shops will get in Easton and Reynolds wheels so that they have something to show customers and have trouble moving them. So you might want to check a couple LBS's to see if they have any 1-2 year old sets for a decent discount.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . carbon clinchers and they're great. I've been riding them for two seasons now and they've worked very well. Not as light as ZIPP's, but I'd say 80-90% of the performance for half the price.

BBD

[oldguy00]

. . . carbon clinchers and they're great. I've been riding them for two seasons now and they've worked very well. Not as light as ZIPP's, but I'd say 80-90% of the performance for half the price.

BBD

Thx. I think the Boyds are at the top of the list currently.
That said, I now find myself also looking at the Dura Ace C50 clinchers, and the HED Jet 6 FR clinchers. Aluminum brake surface, not as sexy as the full carbon clinchers, but both high quality wheels, and can be found on sale for same price as Boyds, or pretty close.

[shovelhd]

Jets are great wheels, but light they are not.

[ergott]

I know this isn't the question, but often shops will get in Easton and Reynolds wheels so that they have something to show customers and have trouble moving them. So you might want to check a couple LBS's to see if they have any 1-2 year old sets for a decent discount.

Easton wheels can be a disaster. Quality is all over the place.

I will third (lost count) the recommendations for Boyd and November. Excellent people to work with. Both deliver far better quality than Easton.

[oldguy00]

Jets are great wheels, but light they are not.

The Jets weigh 1660g. Within 100g of the Boyd 60mm wheels. Not a significant difference.

One thing that has me thinking Jets is the aluminum brake surface. Not a concern for my road bike, because I don't road race anymore, and would never bother doing a road ride in the rain. But I compete in tri's now, and it might be nice to have an aluminum brake track wheelset as a backup race day wheelset for rainy conditions. I normally use a HED stinger disc and a HED Stinger 9 on my TT bike. Last race was in the rain, and I almost crashed at one of the turnarounds because I couldn't slow down...

[carpediemracing]

Funny.

I'm looking to replace my tweaked Bastogne rims (aka Ardennes) with carbon clinchers. I have Jets and the Bastognes and I'd like to convert them. I want one set of not-very-aero carbon clinchers (for training but also as race wheels in the rain). If things are good money-wise then maybe a second set of more aero carbon clinchers (to keep in tune with how aero wheels handle on the road).

Currently I have Stinger 6/6, 7/9, and a 4 front for racing. I may relace the 6/6 with something else also since the 7/9 is usable in most situations I encounter.

Having ridden carbon and aluminum brake track wheels back to back in the rain, I prefer the carbon. The pad bites much better once it bites. With aluminum there isn't much there even after you're on the brakes for 10-20-30 seconds really hard (on 15-18% descents ending in a stop sign and yes I stop for stop signs).

I've used Koolstop salmon and black/salmon, and prior to that Koolstop black (which is just for dry so yeah, it's not great in the rain). I also used Swisstop Yellows with my DV46s.

Right now I leave the black/salmon on regardless of which wheels are on the bike.

[oldguy00]

I can't remember which pads I have on my TT bike.....might be black swiss stops.
But they wouldn't stop me in the rain on the stinger wheels! Granted, brakes on TT bikes don't exactly have the same leverage as normal road brakes...

[bluesea]

Out of the listed I'd be inclined to go with November, which is designed to ameliorate side wind effect and has been wind tunnel tested. Ergott is a dealer for November.

[shovelhd]

The Jet 6 Plus are 1734g/pr. Are you looking at used, demo, or NOS FR?

[oldguy00]

The Jet 6 Plus are 1734g/pr. Are you looking at used, demo, or NOS FR?

I was looking at the Hed Jet 6+ FR's. I see some different weights quoted....
1660g on Competitive Cyclist's website, but then further down in the specs it says 1760.
On HED's website it claims 1734.....
Even if the difference is 150 grams from the other wheelsets, its not a decision maker for me. Those small weight amounts simply make no difference in speed.

[shovelhd]

Those small weight amounts simply make no difference in speed.

Okay.

[oldguy00]

Okay.

Don't take my word for it. Tons of info via Google, etc. Hard to argue against physics..

[carpediemracing]

Don't take my word for it. Tons of info via Google, etc. Hard to argue against physics..

Solo speed, yes, I agree, and in fact my Jets (6/9) are faster than my Bastognes/Ardennes when I ride solo. If solo riding is your concern then the rest of my typing doesn't apply.

The problem is you have to apply the physics properly to get an accurate comparison. I can't find any calculations that illustrate some balance between acceleration (to stay in the draft) and aero/weight savings in a group situation (group ride or race). There's definitely punishment for not being able to accelerate quickly and stay in the draft.

For me I've always, without question, found that heavier wheels, even aero, handicap me in most race situations. They force me to work much harder when I accelerate, wearing me out quickly. Exception is if the race is such that there are sustained speeds and not much accelerating (so few turns and huge fields).

In fact when I go truck hunting (typically goal is to draft at 45 mph) I use non-aero Bastogne/Ardennes because I have such a hard time accelerating up to speed with the Jets. Around here most of my "draft zones" are flat so it really hurts to use the Jets.

In CA I got to link up with a few trucks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_o8CFeGG_g) in slight downgrade areas so even though the drafting ended up on slight uphills, I could use the downgrade to offset the weight penalty. First draft, yellow truck, is at about 2:30 and I have a Bastogne front, Jet 9 rear. Second draft, white truck, immediately after, I have the Jet 6/9. I went a touch faster in the second draft.

I used the Bastogne front on the bit with the descent because it was a long day to/from Palomar, I'd have a few 50+ mph descents, and the Jet 6 was scary at 50 mph with the white trucks.

I raced a crit (Red Trolley) the last Sunday of that SoCal trip and I chose to use the Bastognes, not the Jets. If I'd known better I'd have brought the Bastognes and the Stingers.

Actually I never would have bought the Jets, period.

[oldpotatoe]

I was looking at the Hed Jet 6+ FR's. I see some different weights quoted....
1660g on Competitive Cyclist's website, but then further down in the specs it says 1760.
On HED's website it claims 1734.....
Even if the difference is 150 grams from the other wheelsets, its not a decision maker for me. Those small weight amounts simply make no difference in speed.

In a lab, w/o a rider, they actually do, teeny, tiny differences. But with a human on the bike, whether or not the day started with a healthy trip to the loo makes more difference than 150 grams on your wheels.

[oldguy00]

In a lab, w/o a rider, they actually do, teeny, tiny differences. But with a human on the bike, whether or not the day started with a healthy trip to the loo makes more difference than 150 grams on your wheels.

Exactly.
I absolutely agree that light wheels can make a bike -feel- different underneath you. But in terms of speed, its just not there. About the only time it is barely measureable is when having to accelerate from a stop, and that is very rare in a ride/race, and even that acceleration is very brief. Accelerating in a crit from 30km/hr in a sharp corner back up to 40+km/hr, it just doesn't make a diff.
I know lots will disagree, thats OK. :)
Fact is, the mind is pretty powerful. If you've convinced yourself that you are faster on lighter wheels, then you probably will be.

As power meters become more common, and folks do more and more testing, more and more myths are dispelled. Aside from weight, another good myth is how aero doesn't matter until you get beyond a certain speed...... Oh, and then there is the 'rotating mass is more important' myth....

Anyway, happy Friday! :banana:

[oldguy00]

Thanks all for the input.
Ended up getting a great deal from a fellow Slowtwitcher on a new set of Jet 6's ('old' 23mm version), couldn't pass up the deal.

Cheers