Knee joints and Hyaluronate Sodium

[Ginger]

Considering the vast amount of injury experience on the board, I thought I'd ask if anyone has had experience with Hyluronate Sodium joint injections?

I saw my knee doc yesterday and he suggested that if the knee hadn't come around in two months perhaps I'd be looking at a Cortisone shot. I told him that that wasn't happening. Cortisone shots make me sick for two weeks afterwards...yeah, the knee doesn't hurt much, but I'm flat in bed so it doesn't prove or improve much. He said the next step would be a series of three shots of the Hyluronate sodium which thickens the fluid in the joint.

So...anyone with any experience with this stuff?

Thanks

Ginger

PS. He told me to go ride my bike more too...

[jpw]

No experience of that.

What's wrong with your knee?

Have you tried daily swimming?

[Kevan]

I certainly can't offer any better advise than to say your post script is the most attractive solution to the repairs offered.

So go on... get on that bike and go girl!

[Ginger]

Ah, the repair has already been performed.
I was broadsided by a car on my mortocycle way back in September of 2000. The lining of the knee was shredded and the shreds were interferring with joint operation, getting crushed, causing inflamation and pain. The knee got scoped in November of 2003. The ankle was operated on in September 2003, and that is part of the problem...it is also a bit weak.

I'm still having some problems...like going down stairs. Or standing and pedaling on the bike. There is some scar tissue formed and the V2? quad is still not strong enough to keep the kneecap in line so I can go down about 9 steps and its like something winds up in the knee and lets loose, the kneecap shifts (and clunks) and causes all sorts of pain. Not good when you have a 2 story house and the bike room and laundry is in the basement.

I've been doing tons of specific strengthening exersizes in physical therapy two hours per session, three times a week since the surgery. I'm still in PT for a couple more months...

However, if PT doesn't sort this out, and I don't accept the cortisone, the next step is the Hyluronate Sodium. Actually, that's a naturally occuring substance that they extract from cockscombs...ick. Its supposed to make the liquid in the joint thicker and slicker....like slick 50 for your knee I guess.




Swimming...sorry...for me swimming is a whole flight of stairs down from sitting on a trainer in my basement looking at the brick wall for an hour while pedaling.

[jpw]

Yes, swimming can be rather boring but it's the very best for joint articulation without impact stress. It also promotes the mammalian water reflex (only humans and dolphins) which helps the body to recover from injury. You can't be 100% without it.

[dgauthier]

A quick google search returns nothing for "mammalian water reflex", but there is such a thing as the "mammalian diving reflex", a "set of physiological reflexes that act as the first line of defense against hypoxia."

Could you elaborate on how the mammalian diving reflex helps the body recover from injury?

[Too Tall]

Ginger, Not hyaluronic acid? 10-4 on cortisone...yech. I have not heard a definitive reason why it increases lubricity of joints but it does give relief for some. Are you friends with Mr. Celebrex yet? Talk with your doc. about that and maybe use enteric coated plain old aspirin such as eccotrin to moderate pain. Aspirin play well with athletics....celebrex be careful to hydrate perfectly and no worries...don't overmedicate...it is powerful stuff.

Also, a very VERY safe thing to alleviate symptoms of inflammation is simple MSM. Look for a quality supplier who adds NOTHING else and in 1000mg capsules. No contraindications with that and expect results in 1 to 2 weeks once tissue saturation is complete. It works for about 3/4 of my clients who've tried it. Common dose is 2-4,000 mg / day.

ICE before and after exercise. Buy a huge ACE wrap and use 2 lb bags of frozen peas (smack em' on a table). Bring the peas in a small cooler to rides, gym etc. Inflammation is your enemy.

Peas on Earth. Good will to Ginger.

[Kevan]

you might be needing it.

[geoatl]

Try this link for information from the Arthritis Foundation on joint fluid replacement. I've worked with the foundation's magazine Arthritis Today for a few years now and from what I have read some people have success with joint fluid therapy and some do not. You can also go to the foundations home page and type in:
Hyaluronic Acid or Viscosupplements and see if we have any other information that would be useful to you.

http://www.arthritis.org/resources/news/hyaluronic_statement.asp

Good Luck, Good Health

[wisdom-doc]

Sodium Hyaluronate is a catrilagenous precurser. It is a very common substance that in fact is the same gelatinous material that supports the cornea. It is sometimes injected into joints to increase the viscocity of the synoveal fluid for temporary relief. Studies on its use are lacking. A good medical caveat: STAY OUT OF JOINTS UNLESS NESSECARY!!

[Ginger]

Too Tall:
Asprin throws me into shock! ...otherwise its a good idea. I save stuff like Aleve for my migraines. I don't get them often, but I want something available that works for me if they do start up.
I can do celebrex for about 20 days before my system reacts badly to it, about 10 days for mobic and bextra (I spent a year or so before my hip surgery seeing what I tolerated...I don't)

I have issues with sulfas too and had always taken the msm with glucosamine...so where the combo does seem to help, once again, I don't tolerate it for long. I'll give a try on the msm by itself.

The fishoil as suggested in the old forum really have helped as far as keeping pain and swelling down. And yes. Ice is my friend.

Thanks for the references! I'll go take a peek!

Wisdom-doc, I totally agree on staying out of joints unless necessary.

[MartyE]

Ginger,

Have you tried Chondroitin (Sp?) Sulfate as a standalone
(without Glucosamine)? It also has been written up as
helpful in cartlidge type injuries.
There are also 2 forms of Glucosamine, HCL and Sulfate, wonder
if both cause upset after prolonged use?

Marty