Look 585 Repaired?

[zacstanley]

Hey Folks-
It's Zac who bought that Look 585 a few weeks back. It finally arrived today. I think I might have been hoodwinked. I noticed what appears to be overspray on the seat tube below that lug. As well as overspray on the carbon seattube under where the seat collar is. There also seems to be some slight texture changes at the seat lug. In some places it is subtly rough and other places smooth like it has been re-clear coated. Additionally, I also noticed a paint drip at the tt before the head lug. I've attached some pics so you all can give me you expert opinions.

Thanks,
Zac

[vqdriver]

hate to hear that. what a bummer.
someone will chime in with better advice, but can you feel any difference in the tube diameter as you run your hand over it? any borders from what would be a carbon wrap?
if you tap tap tap with your fingernail along the tube, does it suddenly change tone?

what you describe sounds like respray, but the question would be if it was cosmetic or to cover a repair. reach out to the seller and see what the response is.

[RedRider]

hate to hear that. what a bummer.

what you describe sounds like respray, but the question would be if it was cosmetic or to cover a repair. reach out to the seller and see what the response is.

Look frames always had a high quality finish so it does look like something was re-done. I agree, you should first ask the seller, see if the response is satisfactory...

[zacstanley]

There does not seem to be a noticeable change in tone when tapping the tubes or sudden change in the OD of the tubing. What makes me nervous because of the location, is that there may have been some re-bonding of the tubes under the the seat lug. I don't want anything to do with an older carbon frame that I don't know the historyof. Kinda like adopting a pit bull.

[kramnnim]

Can you see anything down inside the seat tube?

...if you end up returning it, I have a medium frame for sale. The previous owner is also here on the forum.

Edit: I guess sending it back to Ukraine might not be feasible...

[Miles]

There does not seem to be a noticeable change in tone when tapping the tubes or sudden change in the OD of the tubing. What makes me nervous because of the location, is that there may have been some re-bonding of the tubes under the the seat lug. I don't want anything to do with an older carbon frame that I don't know the historyof. Kinda like adopting a pit bull.

No offense but did you not buy this adopted pit bull on your own accord? Is the respray mostly on the seat tube area and also near the head tube where there was likely To be cable rub? I have had a look frame that had some cable rub on that same side of the seat tube lug.

[zacstanley]

No offense but did you not buy this adopted pit bull on your own accord?

I did buy it of my own accord and the description did not include any of this information. I would be fine with not knowing the history if it didn't show signs of obvious tampering......or fighting as it were.

[Miles]

Do the respeay areas appear to be in areas of cable rub? And the seller is now fighting you on giving you info?

[kramnnim]

Another forum member recently bought a 585, and the interior of the BB shell has a hole corroded between the threaded sections. (similar to the problem some Time frames have) Does your frame show any signs of this? If so, it may give more leverage with a "not as described" case...

[kramnnim]

Looks like a crimp in the third picture...is this the seat tube, from the FD clamp?

[zacstanley]

Do the respeay areas appear to be in areas of cable rub? And the seller is now fighting you on giving you info?

The repspray is on the NDS of the seat tube below the lug where there may have been some cable rub.

The more I look at this frame the more clear drips/runs I discover. It also appears that the dropouts were rattle can'd.

[zacstanley]

Looks like a crimp in the third picture...is this the seat tube, from the FD clamp?

Yes, the seattube has a crimp in it as well.

[ultraman6970]

IMO you have to try to find a good solution to the problem.

Smell the old paint and the new paint I bet the new paint still smells.

You can use that to get a couple of hundreds off because I doubt the dude might want the frame back, if not... just return it, eat the shipping cost and get your money back. Check the frame really well tho.

Now the paint, some brands are famous for getting bubbles in the paint but w/o looking at that personally I cant tell you if its a respray or not but the smell test will let you know right away. Asking you to smell because I doubt the dude was smart enough to use the right paint, polyurethane stops smelling after a couple of days, rustoleum crap smells for weeks.

That paint can be sanded and polished to make it look even just in case, if the dude used the right paint to fix that.

Good luck.

[Joachim]

Assuming this is not a fake.

[kramnnim]

...are there any fake 585s out there?

[distanc3]

IMO you have to try to find a good solution to the problem.

Smell the old paint and the new paint I bet the new paint still smells.

You can use that to get a couple of hundreds off because I doubt the dude might want the frame back, if not... just return it, eat the shipping cost and get your money back. Check the frame really well tho.

Now the paint, some brands are famous for getting bubbles in the paint but w/o looking at that personally I cant tell you if its a respray or not but the smell test will let you know right away. Asking you to smell because I doubt the dude was smart enough to use the right paint, polyurethane stops smelling after a couple of days, rustoleum crap smells for weeks.

That paint can be sanded and polished to make it look even just in case, if the dude used the right paint to fix that.

Good luck.

Agree with Ultra, the paint looks very horrible and definitely a cheap job.

Unfortunately you have to weigh how much you're willing to pay out for the return shipping vs how much he's willing to compensate you. I've watched this frame listed as $1,600CDN prior picking one up from a PL member. If I recall correctly you did pay a premium compared to what this frame goes for on this forum.

I would recommend returning tampered frame. The money you get back less the shipping should still be enough for you to get another 585 from a forum member within time.

Good luck

[Joachim]

...are there any fake 585s out there?

Who knows, anything can be faked. The OP should at least be able to get info from Look (email the serial number). One if the LOOK USA guys is a forum member.

[vqdriver]

this was an ebay transaction, correct? does it have the buyer protection?

i ask, because i just finished a dispute with them last week and it worked out well with a guaranteed refund.

[kramnnim]

The problem is that eBay will not cover the return postage, and the frame came from Ukraine...

[Peter P.]

Are you concerned about the frame's integrity because of the quality of the paint or does the paint job itself look bad? I honestly can't tell the quality of the paint from the photos.

Here's the way I look at it: Sounds like you paid a premium for the frame including shipping from the Ukraine. If you submit contest it with the seller and make no headway, you could submit a claim through eBay's Resolution program, and you lose no money if you try.

If the finish is of acceptable quality then I wouldn't worry about the frame. If you love the frame but hate the finish, you could always get a professional respray done later, once the frame finish shows some wear. If the finish is going to bother you every time you look at the bike, go for the refund attempt and if you win, you've gained an education which you paid for with return shipping.

Let us know if you're successful going the refund route.

[vqdriver]

The problem is that eBay will not cover the return postage, and the frame came from Ukraine...

actually, once the decision came out in my favor, they (ebay) provided a shipping label for me to print. it was their label, so as soon as tracking showed that it was delivered, i was issued a refund including the original shipping amount. i don't know how they recover that from the seller, but from my standpoint, i lost nothing.

ukraine??? don't know about that one. my experience was with a US seller. but really, even if the op eats the return shipping, this sounds like a no confidence kind of transaction. in which case, i don't know if he'll get full enjoyment out of it anyway. may as well cut your losses while you still have ebay as a middleman. wait too long and that window closes.

[zacstanley]

So the weird thing is.......it was listed as Ukraine but shipped from Brooklyn which made it seem even more nefarious after I paid the guy. So shipping the frame back across the country is of minimal concern to me. I do have ebay buyer protection and have submitted a refund request. I paid a lot for the frame and in present condition it is obviously overvalued.
Haven't gotten a response from the seller yet. We will see.

[ultraman6970]

I did not know the detail about Ukraine...

Big problem because if the box no matter if it has a tracking number and is untraceable from the us and actually shows up as delivered paypal wont acknowledge that the frame was returned and the OP can be burned twice in the return. And that f.. sucks... the other guy say.. no i dont have it... web doesnt say crap... and he can lose the money and the item.

Anybody has deal with those russian people?? (sorry for generalize ok? just being latin right now)

This happened to me sending something to singapore, paypal knew that the item left the country, but since nobody scanned it after left the US there was no trace, the dude filled up a complain, had to give him the money back and lost the item. The only place in asia I sent is japan just because they scan everything.

With some countries you can trace all the way, Holland and Japan for example.

[zacstanley]

The shipping return address is brooklyn.......

[jtakeda]

eBay is very very buyer friendly.

I'd give them a call, it's fairly easy to talk to a real person so you should get some good advice there.

[pbarry]

The shipping return address is brooklyn.......

Push this hard through ebay. They'll back you. Make sure any communication with the seller goes through ebay messaging.

[ultraman6970]

+1

push this hard through ebay. They'll back you. Make sure any communication with the seller goes through ebay messaging.

[buldogge]

Yeah…that's not a Look paint job…my '06 orange 585 has deep beautiful paint. I'm sure there is some variance at the factory…but…I doubt like that…from a QC standpoint.

Besides…the crimp is a bummer, especially if it wasn't disclosed.

You will get your money and your return shipping paid, just open a case with eBay.

-Mark in St. Louis

[sokyroadie]

You will get your money and your return shipping paid, just open a case with eBay.

-Mark in St. Louis

I don't know about getting the shipping refunded, I bought some wheels listed as 650B and they were 650C, the seller was not cooperative and refused to pay return shipping. Ebay refunded my money, but I had to pay the return shipping. That is their policy.

Jeff

[buldogge]

Obviously…YMMV…but…I hung tight and said I wouldn't accept anything but a pre-paid label and a refund, on two occasions. Granted these were both smaller items…but…both items were defective and/or misrepresented.

FWIW.

-Mark

I don't know about getting the shipping refunded, I bought some wheels listed as 650B and they were 650C, the seller was not cooperative and refused to pay return shipping. Ebay refunded my money, but I had to pay the return shipping. That is their policy.

Jeff

[kramnnim]

Yeah...seems like eBay may cover the return postage themselves if they feel like it. At least it doesn't have to go back to Ukraine, though.

[vqdriver]

One word of advice. When you open the case with ebay you'll have the opportunity to message the seller and post pictures to the "case". Take better photos that better show what the issue is. I can't really tell from the pics that are up.

[distanc3]

I, as well as others will too, can provide comparison pictures if you feel it will help strengthen your case.

[zacstanley]

Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions. I still have heard nothing from the seller.

Cheers,
Zac

[campy man]

eBay is very very buyer friendly.

I'd give them a call, it's fairly easy to talk to a real person so you should get some good advice there.

I returned a couple of items using E-Bay's buyer protection. In both cases I returned based on 'Not as Described' and won. Did not cost a penny to return and received a 100% refund.

In one case the guy sold an 'uncut' CF fork that the steerer tube was obviously cut. The seller's defense was the fork was cut by the previous owner, 'uncut' by him.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

eBay is very very buyer friendly.

This! Which makes selling there not a really fun endeavor. And as a buyer, I never get anything used, the seller's descriptions are always "lacking." Item location Ukraine, shipped from Brooklyn? Interesting. Get this worm out of your mind, call ebay, get your money back and move on. Stuff like this would drive me to drink (more).

[Cicli]

I believe it is aginst ebay policy to misrepresent the location an item is shipped from. I dont know if it matters but it does show another inacuracy in the transaction.

[zacstanley]

Finally heard back from the seller. He has agreed to refund me the funds plus shipping!

Thanks for everyone's input.

[R3awak3n]

This! Which makes selling there not a really fun endeavor. And as a buyer, I never get anything used, the seller's descriptions are always "lacking." Item location Ukraine, shipped from Brooklyn? Interesting. Get this worm out of your mind, call ebay, get your money back and move on. Stuff like this would drive me to drink (more).


I bought something from that guy, messaged him asking why most his auctions said Ukraine but some said US. He said it shipped from Brooklyn. It did get here fast but still got charged $10 shipping and I am in Brooklyn.

Just bought a couple of things on ebay.

Record 10 speed shifters. They were a good deal but guy said they were absolutely perfect... to me perfect means no scratches and almost new.
Of course, typical ebay they list miles (less than 500). Get them and they have been clearly used for more than 500 miles. There is a tiny chip in the clear of the carbon fiber (which I asked about since I kind of saw it in a picture and he said that it was a reflection). Since I got them for a good deal, I decided to just let it go.

Got some chorus brakes a while back and the bolt was so rusty that 3-4 threads were gone. They guy said they were in great condition. Guy refunded me the money but I paid shipping. His excuse, I get so many going through my hands I dont inspect them perfectly. Ok, so now I have to pay from my own pocket to ship it back to you. Ebay definitely sides with the buyer but with so many crappy crappy sellers I think that is a good thing.


edit: just read he is refunding. There are still some good sellers on ebay. Any mention from the seller on the paint/repaint?

[ultraman6970]

He knew, sellers always know the condition of the stuff they are selling, you can say condition it is a subjective thing but there are limits too. Some sellers never put themselves in the buyers shoes.

Happy for you :)

Finally heard back from the seller. He has agreed to refund me the funds plus shipping!

Thanks for everyone's input.

[distanc3]

Finally heard back from the seller. He has agreed to refund me the funds plus shipping!

Thanks for everyone's input.

Good to hear man! Hope you'll find a 585 soon

[tumbler]

Will be interesting if he puts it back on ebay. Maybe he'll describe it as having "custom paint" next time.

[eippo1]

Glad you're getting a refund. That paint is just rough. Can't see I've ever seen a production bike in the past 10 years without at least a smooth clearcoat.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Finally heard back from the seller. He has agreed to refund me the funds plus shipping!

Thanks for everyone's input.

Awesome.

[campy man]

Will be interesting if he puts it back on ebay. Maybe he'll describe it as having "custom paint" next time.

There should be a way to flag the listing so the seller doesn't re-list.

E-Bay is good for some items but it's definetly a 'buyer beware' environment. I typically ask a couple questions to verify condition. If I need to dispute the condition E-Bay looks at the messages to determine fault.

[zacstanley]

Anyone have opinions on sizing for these frames? I feel like I'm right in-between. A large would fit well and med might require a longer stem or slightly set back post.