Bioshift, which company will adopt if first?

[bobswire]

Wave of the future? I'm still using down tube and bar ends on two of my bikes.
http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=Is+Bioshift+The+Future+Of+Gear+Shifting+On+ Bikes?&dashboard=&id=FCNRqMUigZU&yr=2014

[Dead Man]

Everyone has a line. For me, it's batteries. The bike should be human-powered only, including shifting. I can jump on board with integrating shifting/braking, more gears, lighter parts, changes in geometry and cadence, etc., etc... anything, and everything within practicality to make the rider more efficient. But the bike shouldn't be doing anything under any power source but YOU, IMHO.

It just takes too much from the sport. It's already been a money game for some time, with lightweight, aero, and ever more gears.. but this whole electronic crap is really making it spend-more-or-get-dropped. It's just another way to buy seconds, instead of earn them.

[firerescuefin]

I've never felt that I've been dropped by a faster bike. Been dropped by countless faster riders.

Cool technology. If it floats your boat....and you can afford it, then a tip of the cap to you.

[cmg]

couldn't you get the Garmin to tell when to shift for speed and efficiency? how do we take something simple and almost flawless and make it complicated and expensive? add a computer, software and batteries. Got dropped on the evenings ride by a set of guys who had no problem with their shifting. i had problem breathing.

[velotrack]

Everyone has a line. For me, it's batteries. The bike should be human-powered only, including shifting. I can jump on board with integrating shifting/braking, more gears, lighter parts, changes in geometry and cadence, etc., etc... anything, and everything within practicality to make the rider more efficient. But the bike shouldn't be doing anything under any power source but YOU, IMHO.

It just takes too much from the sport. It's already been a money game for some time, with lightweight, aero, and ever more gears.. but this whole electronic crap is really making it spend-more-or-get-dropped. It's just another way to buy seconds, instead of earn them.

How does say, a dynamo light fit into this theory? Or perhaps electronic shifting powered by such a hub?

Food for thought.

I'll shift my bike myself, or at least, choose when to shift.

[carlineng]

Dynamo hubs use human generated power, so no qualms there.

[shovelhd]

Does EPS have sequential shifting? If not then Shimano is probably the closest. All the pieces are there.

[oldpotatoe]

Wave of the future? I'm still using down tube and bar ends on two of my bikes.
http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=Is+Bioshift+The+Future+Of+Gear+Shifting+On+ Bikes?&dashboard=&id=FCNRqMUigZU&yr=2014

What I want to know is why the guy's saddle isn't level.

shimano has a type of this with XTR Di2..front der. When shimano decides to do the above, game over. Hope they have a good patent lawyer.

But shimano when Di2 was new made a big point of how much energy you save by pushing a 'button', rather than moving a shifter..I think it's too hard to match what each rider does when riding to any sort of program..too many variables but geee, how hard is it to push the buttons?

[Netdewt]

Everyone has a line. For me, it's batteries. The bike should be human-powered only, including shifting. I can jump on board with integrating shifting/braking, more gears, lighter parts, changes in geometry and cadence, etc., etc... anything, and everything within practicality to make the rider more efficient. But the bike shouldn't be doing anything under any power source but YOU, IMHO.

It just takes too much from the sport. It's already been a money game for some time, with lightweight, aero, and ever more gears.. but this whole electronic crap is really making it spend-more-or-get-dropped. It's just another way to buy seconds, instead of earn them.

I'm here with you.

However if there was a good use for EPS/Di2, I think this is going in the right direction. Seems potentially far more useful than full manual electronic shifting - if it works...

[stephenmarklay]

Yeah that saddle caught my attention too.

It sounds interesting but I would like to understand what kind of algorithm is employed. it seems like to would be highly individual and would need to be a learning system.

It also makes me think that gears are primitive in the way they are used now.

[bcroslin]

Seems like a no-brainer for comfort bikes and hybrids. I'm guessing you won't see this tech rolled out on road bikes as anything but proof-of-concept.

[bicycletricycle]

I think that something like this might be handy for training, forcing you to ride a different cadence, etc.

I also think that an automatic warm up/down mode might be nice.

Most of the parts are already in place, might as well at this point.

I would need it to send a beep to my headphones so that I wouldn't get caught out by a shift.

[Seramount]

the concept is entirely underwhelming.

I've owned 21 motor vehicles, ONE of them had an automatic transmission.

I LIKE manually choosing the appropriate gear.

[dnc]

Wave of the future? I'm still using down tube and bar ends on two of my bikes.
http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=Is+Bioshift+The+Future+Of+Gear+Shifting+On+ Bikes?&dashboard=&id=FCNRqMUigZU&yr=2014

Not my idea:
http://www.humansinvent.com/#!/16971/ampy-power-your-phone-by-walking/

[staggerwing]

the concept is entirely underwhelming.

I've owned 21 motor vehicles, ONE of them had an automatic transmission.

I LIKE manually choosing the appropriate gear.

While I'm with you in choosing manuals for my personal vehicles, I will note that the DSG in my ladies new TDI Sportwagen likely surpasses my abilities. Most automatics are less than inspiring due to fluid, as opposed to true mechanical, coupling and uninspiring programming.

I'm quite surprised that Shimano hadn't alluded to such a product at the introduction of electronic shifting. With current tech, the computer to make it happen would be easy. Good shift program would be a bit more difficult. The only real fly in the ointment is the need for power feedback to close the controller loop.

I like the idea of using it as a training aid.

[Mark McM]

Seems like a no-brainer for comfort bikes and hybrids. I'm guessing you won't see this tech rolled out on road bikes as anything but proof-of-concept.

Nope, it won't start with comfort bikes.

The bike companies have already figured out how to introduce new technology to the market. If they introduce it on low-end hybrid bikes first, then bike enthusiasts will avoid it because it's obviously for newbies and freds. But if they get top pro racers to be seen using it, bike enthusiasts will clamber to buy it, and deride anyone who doesn't adopt it as an idiot or a luddite.

[oldpotatoe]

Nope, it won't start with comfort bikes.

The bike companies have already figured out how to introduce new technology to the market. If they introduce it on low-end hybrid bikes first, then bike enthusiasts will avoid it because it's obviously for newbies and freds. But if they get top pro racers to be seen using it, bike enthusiasts will clamber to buy it, and deride anyone who doesn't adopt it as an idiot or a luddite.

What doomed(partially) Suntour and helped shimano to succeed. Introducing 'click shifting' to low end of Suntour or DA. We are such lemmings sometimes.

[jr59]

Nope, it won't start with comfort bikes.

The bike companies have already figured out how to introduce new technology to the market. If they introduce it on low-end hybrid bikes first, then bike enthusiasts will avoid it because it's obviously for newbies and freds. But if they get top pro racers to be seen using it, bike enthusiasts will clamber to buy it, and deride anyone who doesn't adopt it as an idiot or a luddite.


Isn't this the NASCAR way? Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.

[bobswire]

Nope, it won't start with comfort bikes.

The bike companies have already figured out how to introduce new technology to the market. If they introduce it on low-end hybrid bikes first, then bike enthusiasts will avoid it because it's obviously for newbies and freds. But if they get top pro racers to be seen using it, bike enthusiasts will clamber to buy it, and deride anyone who doesn't adopt it as an idiot or a luddite.

There is already an "auto shift" bike for us Freds and Luddites. :banana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38GudmnyZKo

[mike p]

Even if all the kinks got worked out I wouldn't be interested. I want to be involved in my riding, as someone already said that's why I choose a manual transmission over an auto in my cars.

Mike

[Mark McM]

I'm quite surprised that Shimano hadn't alluded to such a product at the introduction of electronic shifting. With current tech, the computer to make it happen would be easy. Good shift program would be a bit more difficult. The only real fly in the ointment is the need for power feedback to close the controller loop.

But Shimano already has their own automatic electronic shifting system, the Auto-D:

http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_19/art19/bw1935.jpg

[Peter B]

<snip>

But shimano when Di2 was new made a big point of how much energy you save by pushing a 'button', rather than moving a shifter..I think it's too hard to match what each rider does when riding to any sort of program..too many variables but geee, how hard is it to push the buttons?

I'm waiting for someone to couple bioshift with drone technology. Add a good video camera and some G-glasses. Rain or shine just think of all the real-time fun I could have and energy I would save as I sit on the couch and enjoy my 'ride'.

[Mark McM]

In a way, I kind of already have a kind of 'automatic' shifting. I've been riding so long that I shift without consciously think about it at all. There are a number of bodily functions that can be controlled consciously, like breathing or blinking, but most of the time we let them happened automatically. So it's become with shifting - I don't think about, it just naturally happens as I ride.

[unterhausen]

Nope, it won't start with comfort bikes.

The bike companies have already figured out how to introduce new technology to the market. If they introduce it on low-end hybrid bikes first, then bike enthusiasts will avoid it because it's obviously for newbies and freds. But if they get top pro racers to be seen using it, bike enthusiasts will clamber to buy it, and deride anyone who doesn't adopt it as an idiot or a luddite.

strangely enough, the first Di2 system was for comfort bikes. You can occasionally find a Di2 rear dynohub on ebay. Shimano tends to throw new ideas at people that don't know any better, then move up. Maybe that's why it took so long for index shifting to catch on

[Leoner]

everyone has a line. For me, it's batteries. The bike should be human-powered only, including shifting. I can jump on board with integrating shifting/braking, more gears, lighter parts, changes in geometry and cadence, etc., etc... Anything, and everything within practicality to make the rider more efficient. But the bike shouldn't be doing anything under any power source but you, imho.

+1

[jimoots]

DC Ray took it for a ride:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/10/bioshifts-automated-shifting.html

I don't know if some of the above commenters watched the video or have read up elsewhere, but it's not a matter of selecting gear based on cadence alone.

I figure the major hurdle for Shimano et al pushing this to the masses is the requirement of a powermeter to make it work. This also limits low-end applications.

All in all, a pretty nichey product. For example, I have a powermeter but am totally uninterested in automatic shifting.

It's a subset (people interested in auto shifting) of a subset (people interested in power meters) of a market (people interested in cycling).

[Dead Man]

DC Ray took it for a ride:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/10/bioshifts-automated-shifting.html

I don't know if some of the above commenters watched the video or have read up elsewhere, but it's not a matter of selecting gear based on cadence alone.

I figure the major hurdle for Shimano et al pushing this to the masses is the requirement of a powermeter to make it work. This also limits low-end applications.

All in all, a pretty nichey product.

Maybe it'll bring the cost of power meters down.... that'd be rad

[BMS]

Everyone has a line. For me, it's batteries. The bike should be human-powered only, including shifting. I can jump on board with integrating shifting/braking, more gears, lighter parts, changes in geometry and cadence, etc., etc... anything, and everything within practicality to make the rider more efficient. But the bike shouldn't be doing anything under any power source but YOU, IMHO.

It just takes too much from the sport. It's already been a money game for some time, with lightweight, aero, and ever more gears.. but this whole electronic crap is really making it spend-more-or-get-dropped. It's just another way to buy seconds, instead of earn them.

As an electrical engineer who works on systems that are designed to control processes, this concept is really interesting to me... I like to collect and analyze data about processes that I work on... (Nerdy I know) it's awesome that they've designed a system for cycling that will gather data, analyze that data, and then make decisions based on the data all in real time. But man, when I get on a bike, I enjoy the simplicity of operating it myself. This system reminds me too much about work, which I clear my head of through cycling! I have to agree with the above.

[Peter B]

I share your sentiment completely.

[brando]

This is why I don't ride with a Garmin or any display on my handlebars.

[atrexler]

Rainmaker's review was interesting, and I was surprised that it sounded as though the test product worked fairly well for him. As he points out, for a triathlete I could really see this catching on, for someone who wants to set out to ride a really steady pace or power. If it gets cheap enough, way down the line, you could imagine it catching on in the cruiser/city bike set for people who want a few extra gears and don't want to think about it at all. I would think for bike racing though, especially at the highest level, it would be hard to use. For example, what about when you want to shift to a bigger gear in preparation for a sprint or attack? It would be funny to see a pro swing out from a pace line and pedal furiously for a few moments, going nowhere, as his autoshifter struggles to understand his intentions.

[Dead Man]

Rainmaker's review was interesting, and I was surprised that it sounded as though the test product worked fairly well for him. As he points out, for a triathlete I could really see this catching on, for someone who wants to set out to ride a really steady pace or power. If it gets cheap enough, way down the line, you could imagine it catching on in the cruiser/city bike set for people who want a few extra gears and don't want to think about it at all. I would think for bike racing though, especially at the highest level, it would be hard to use. For example, what about when you want to shift to a bigger gear in preparation for a sprint or attack? It would be funny to see a pro swing out from a pace line and pedal furiously for a few moments, going nowhere, as his autoshifter struggles to understand his intentions.

He said you can override the autoshift any time you want... I would imagine it has/will have some kind of auto-reset.... if you manually override the auto, it will stay in whatever gear you put it in until you tell it to go back to auto (predictive?) shifting

[ntb1001]

Just think..Andy Schelk's career might have been different with this.