For the Masi fans: Does anyone know anything about this one?

[WickedWheels]

I came across this bike someone asked me to sell for them. I'm trying to find some in afo on it, as I've never seen a Masi TT. This one is not a funny bike. It has standard 700c wheels. It came with 1st generation C-Record (the owner still has the Delta brakes, but put the Cobalto's on). Needless to say, the wheels are not original. He said this is a one-off and was purchased without wheels. I'd love to know more about it, though... Here it is:

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/01-IMG_9934_zps97ae95bb.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/01-IMG_9934_zps97ae95bb.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/02-IMG_9935_zps167b2c25.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/02-IMG_9935_zps167b2c25.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/07-IMG_9940_zpse9c9261f.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/07-IMG_9940_zpse9c9261f.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/03-IMG_9936_zpsa016c623.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/03-IMG_9936_zpsa016c623.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/08-IMG_9942_zps5311b49d.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/08-IMG_9942_zps5311b49d.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/05-IMG_9938_zpsf6536f0c.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/05-IMG_9938_zpsf6536f0c.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/06-IMG_9939_zps4372ef86.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/06-IMG_9939_zps4372ef86.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/07-IMG_9940_zpse9c9261f.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/07-IMG_9940_zpse9c9261f.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/09-IMG_9943_zps47dee74c.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/09-IMG_9943_zps47dee74c.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/wickedwheels1/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/a91eaf5d-4fbb-473b-b0fb-f267eb099a2c_zpsd05a7f94.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/wickedwheels1/media/Bicycle%20Playground/Masi%20TT/a91eaf5d-4fbb-473b-b0fb-f267eb099a2c_zpsd05a7f94.jpg.html)

[alexstar]

I have seen some custom Masis from that period with the extended seatmast. Velo Cult has a track version, their website says it was build for a local San Diego team. Theirs is lugged, however.

http://velocult.com/bikes/masi-track-pursuit/

http://velocult.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/masi_product_yellow01.jpg

[ultraman6970]

The date and the size is there in the shell.

Interesting bike, the issue with funny bikes in general is... "what use they have besides stay at home to look at them??"

Nice find.

ps: looks very Tesch to me.

[fogrider]

The date and the size is there in the shell.

Interesting bike, the issue with funny bikes in general is... "what use they have besides stay at home to look at them??"

Nice find.

ps: looks very Tesch to me.

Wow!!! that does look like a Tesch time trail bike with the tall seatmast and the chainstay brace and the fillet brazing with bb shell. Since the bike was built around 700c wheels, the geometry looks pretty much like a road bike, it should ride pretty much like a roadie. what are you thinking price wise?

[ultraman6970]

Depending on the size of the top tube that bike can be used by a short person, just cut the seat tube and braze another clamp in there, even why to that, just heat and lower the one in there. Would do a nice road bike.

Fork is like tesch.. the brazing reminds me tesch big time, and tesch worked with Masi I believe too.

[bart998]

The M62 on the bottom bracket is the frame size (62 cm) and refers to the seat tube length in Masi sizing ... fillet brazed, maybe 753 tubing since he was using that in 3V frames at the time. Bob Hovey might have more info for you on his Masi website...

http://bhovey.com/Masi/index.html

[ArtB73]

I know a little about this bike. I bought the frame, fork, and seat post.
It did not come with any other parts. I know it is going to get a Chris King 2Nut headset, Selle Italia saddle, some 3T bars, and (trust me) a better fork (again, trust me on this - I found the one it should of had!) I also know it's getting a brand new Shimano 105 11 speed group. Some purists will hate the fact that I'm not using period correct parts (1986) but I'm getting it back on the road as a road bike. The geometry is not "funny" in any way. The head tube is really short but not low. I'll post some pics but I don't plan on creating an ongoing project gallery. This is going to be an insane bike! :)

[ArtB73]

I did not get the original Campy headset so I had to do some searching. The original fork's crown race was machined(?) down to 26.2 so, unless I did some modifications, it had to be changed. I did find the PERFECT replacement so that'll be good.
I'm 5'9" so the seat post had to be replaced so i could "slam" it.

[11.4]

I agree on the Tesch comments, but then the serial should have been C62, no? Nor did I recall seeing dates stamped that way on Masi's. And someone remind me, isn't that a pretty early date for a bike with that kind of design? I would have thought closer to 1990. The bottom bracket cutout is also a basic Masi M but the font looks slightly different, as if it were imitated by somebody. I've seen the VeloCult bike and it's quite different, much more Masi-esque in style and with details more consistent with the date.

I had a few Masi's along the way, and when I lived in Europe I would wander into the Masi shop fairly often because my team and some of the pros I worked with all were sponsored by Masi. The shop did some limited custom bikes and some very limited funny bikes, but this doesn't really have the hallmarks of the family. By no means an expert here -- and there are people who are -- but this one makes me wonder if it's a different builder putting a few obvious Masi touches and Masi decals on their frame. Consider the side-mounted flush internal brake cable routing, the tangs on the bottom bracket shell, and the chain stay bridge.

Very interesting frame, whatever the provenance.

[ArtB73]

This is a track bike I found that has the same "M" bottom bracket shell cut-out and stamp - maybe from 1993? It has Masi lugs, an elevated seat tube, and the same chain stay bridge.

[11.4]

Nice. You've done a great job of evaluating this frame.

Notice how the track frame has a smaller M cutout than the yellow frame? And how the font is slightly different? Just curious. The bottom bracket appears to be a different model, and the serial number on the track frame is what one should normally expect. Is eRichie around? He knows Masi's really well and could probably offer a good perspective.

One thing one comes to realize after many years is that the Italians were always tweaking their frames (and usually not documenting it adequately) so you can find almost anything. Colnago was, if anything, much more inconsistent about his work -- he was always experimenting and often building to suit a customer's particular desire, something that Masi was a little more conservative about.

[ArtB73]

I noticed the M was smaller too. I'd like to get a better look at this red one

[ArtB73]

a few more shots of the (lugged) red one and my yellow one

The internal brake routing for the red Subaru bike looks like just a tiny hole while mine is super-slick and large enough to run the cable housing

One more pic. The green pursuit frame from California has a big M with pretty sharp edges but is cut out completely. The cutout makes it look less angular. The bottom bracket shell is similar - the chain stay lugs are similar but not the down tube

[ctam]

Found a geometry chart with some limited info. Looks like they offered 2 versions - one with a 650c front wheel and one with 700c.

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/masi-88-tsd/masi-tsd3.jpg

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/masi-88-tsd/masi-tsd6.jpg

[ArtB73]

great work!
This is a bit different though. The ones in the catalog are (cast) lugged (very hard to see but the black darts on the head tube are like the radical funny bike at velocult) and this one is fillet brazed except the bb shell. Also, the "head badge" decals are different and the word "RECORD" is underlined if that matters - respray? The drop outs are a bit different too; mine are Campagnolo and the others are probably Columbus. I think the one I have is either a prototype or, more than likely, a Tesch version from Cali. It could also be a knock-off, a gorgeous knock-off. ;^) Also the catalog is from 1988 …this bike is stamped 1986. The top tube is 54cm (maybe 54.2 or .3) and the angles are 74 degrees seat tube and around 74 degrees head tube and the catalog one is 54.5cm with 75 and 75. I have the bike partly assembled and used my "smart" phone level for the determining the angles - not the most accurate thing i guess but better than nothing. The catalog picture looks steeper. 75 degrees tt & ht is believable.
The new fork may be a touch taller at the crown so that will relax the angles a tiny, tiny bit more.

Anyway, This is getting interesting.

again, great work! and I thought I was good at finding stuff

[11.4]

great work!
This is a bit different though. The ones in the catalog are (cast) lugged (very hard to see but the black darts on the head tube are like the radical funny bike at velocult) and this one is fillet brazed except the bb shell. Also, the "head badge" decals are different and the word "RECORD" is underlined if that matters - respray? The drop outs are a bit different too; mine are Campagnolo and the others are probably Columbus. I think the one I have is either a prototype or, more than likely, a Tesch version from Cali. It could also be a knock-off, a gorgeous knock-off. ;^) Also the catalog is from 1988 …this bike is stamped 1986. The top tube is 54cm and the angles are 73 degrees seat tube and around 74 degrees head tube and the catalog one is 54.5cm with 75 and 75. I have the bike mocked up on my computer fully built and I checked the angles in photoshop. The catalog picture looks steeper. 75 degrees tt & ht is believable.

Anyway, This is getting interesting.

again, great work! and I thought I was good at finding stuff


You've done a great job figuring out this frame. It really looks like someone other than the Masi shop (either Carlsbad or Italy) built the frame and imitated occasional design elements like the bottom bracket cutout and decals. All the ones done officially had lugs, as you've noticed. Have you measured geometry on this one, specifically seat tube and head tube angles. Masi may not have had the lugs for a steep seat angle -- the frame doesn't look unusual but a measurement is better than an eyeball -- and commissioned someone to do this one because of it. If the finish is original, it also doesn't have the look of a Masi finish, but photos always make that hard to tell.

I believe Masi always used Campy stay ends and fork tips. Yours has the drillings for a porta catena, which if I recall was late 1970s and had disappeared quite a bit before the claimed date of this frame. Not that pieces weren't laying around, but why put a porta catena on an explicitly optimized high performance frame? That wasn't really the usual Masi philosophy about such things.

We're probably trying to read tea leaves in a very deep cup right now. It's still an intriguing frame. Leica used to pop out with cameras that were custom made for a particular use or user, and sometimes ones that were just made by a mechanic on his lunch break (hence called "lunch break cameras") for their own use and usually sold off for a few bucks or passed on to family. This might be one like that -- just an experiment. Since it appears a different bottom bracket had to be used, possibly to accommodate different tubing, it had to have its M-cutout done independently and thus it's reasonable that it wouldn't match the standard Masi bottom brackets. Again, we can go in circles. It's a fascinating bike.

[cnighbor1]

Just cut that seat tube down to near top tube and you would have a reasonable Masi to ride
YES Charles

[ArtB73]

Why would I cut down the extended seat tube? Have you looked at the red Team Subaru one? It's stunning. I picked up a 26.0 seat post that doesn't flair out or in so I can drop it all the way down and I'm going to run a low profile saddle. I've measured about a million times and no cutting will have to be done. No elective surgery for the frame as long as it's mine.
The paint is glossy smooth (it may be a modern respray) with only a few small chips. No rust on the outside and none in the inside as far as I can see. It was set up as a TT bike and may have been only used a few times. I bought it from a guy in south Texas. Paint and steel last longer outside of New England (where I'm from.) I've used a few dabs of touch up paint just to cover the steel. This is not going to be a winter bike but I'm also not going to keep it hung on my wall year round either.

I have the frame, original fork, and new wheels loosely assembled. The top tube is around 54.2cm - 54.3cm. The ht and tt angles are 74 degrees according to the level on my smart phone - not perfect but it's what i have handy. I removed the adjusting bolts from the drop outs. The rear wheel is all the way back so the wheel base is about 1/4" longer and the angles are a tiny bit more relaxed. I'm getting an aero NOS(!) Masi fork next week. It may be a bit taller so the angles may relax further still. It certainly does not have TT/Tri geometry compared to modern bikes.

Here is the PhotoShop mock up I created. I used one of the pics from eBay to start. I have Vuelta wheels and not the Zipps in the pic. The wheels are level so it's very close to proper built angles. I used a protractor and came up with similar angles (73.7 - 73.8 degrees for the seat tube and 74 degrees [maybe less] for the head tube.) I'd upload the protractor one but it's in PS layers. The mock up shows the new "new old stock" fork as well. I'm not using CAD or Bike CAD so bare with me. It's only a mock up.

[ArtB73]

The other night I thought I was done shopping for the bike but typed in m-a-s-i on eBay just out of boredom. This fork shows up and it's exactly what i need. crazy.
Earlier that day UPS dropped off the new carbon fork I was going to use. I really didn't like the idea of carbon and hated the black. I was considering shelling out the $ to have it painted the same shade of yellow with some legit decals. I even got a quote from a regional bike builder to paint it.
Finding the "new" fork felt like it was listed with me in mind. It does need to be shortened a bit but the threads start in the same place as the old one.

[ArtB73]

same bottom bracket shell.
boom, there it is ;)
from the classic rendezvous site

the seat binder lug (not pictured) is the same but it was modified on the yellow frame because it didn't need to attach seat stays or a top tube.

[Wolfman]

I have to admit, I wasn't sure that you could pull this one off... the way it was set up when you first listed the pictures really did not do it for me.

But the new, mid-build pics are really cool. I love the seat mast and be sure to post full build pics when done... that is a unique ride you've got there.

[ArtB73]

Here are a few pics of the old fork and the new-old-stock aero fork. The "new" fork is a slightly different color - very, very slight. The decals certainly are smaller. The color looks different in daylight, under fluorescents, or with or without a flash. The photo on the left is close to the actual color. I like the big decals of the old fork but the new one is aero, brand new (sorta), and a 26.4 Chris King baseplate will work with it!!!!! I may sell the old fork to someone who wants to fix it with a bit of brass or knurl it. Maybe a coat of really decent baked on paint would do the trick. Touch up paint that hasn't cured won't hold it.

UPDATE.
the new headset fits the not 26.2(?) crown
idk
read below

[ArtB73]

Here's a shot of forks and frame. The pictures were taken in my painting studio hence the carpet with dry paint here and there - any dry red stuff isn't blood. You can also see the new rear wheel.

[ArtB73]

different fonts
The new-old-stock looks like typical MASI decals - the type you can find on eBay as well. The original fork (see pic with stamped date on steerer tube) that came with the frame, and the frame itself, have a more angular and bold font. The red team Subaru bike(s) and the purple pursuit frame have the bold font. Whenever I think I bought a knock-off I find something that assures me that this is a legit vintage one-off Masi.

[Hindmost]

This is a very cool bike. I like that you are able make it work for you.

The image of the catalogue indicates that this is a production bike? If so, I am puzzled why it comes in one large size ("62") and yet the top tube is about 54.5. This geometry works for TT? Is it about how the funny bike bar mounts on the much shorter steer tube? I am guessing there is a short front center and beaucoup toe overlap.

[ArtB73]

The 62cm is to the top of the seat tube. The actual seat tube / top tube size is 48.5cm. It'll have decent stand over clearance. This is a (one-off?) fillet brazed version of the Record Crono. As far as I know all of those were lug assembled.
The purple pursuit frame from Campagnolo Delta blog has lugs. The lugs were modified on that frame to make it look lug-less (trimmed and, I believe filled with body filler[?]) before being painted. Campagnolo delta blog spot labeled under "Provenance and Nonsense" has info. on that Cali. frame.

I'm hoping toe overlap isn't a big issue. The NOS fork has only a 43 rake compared to the original 45. The new crank arms I'll be using are 172.5 and I don't have clown shoes. ;^)

I mentioned above about "normal" Masi decals versus the ones I have. They're both normal considering they've switched decals about a hundred times.

[ArtB73]

Okay. Something weird just happened.
The new threaded Chris King 2Nut headset was just dropped off at my door. I unpackaged it (it's gorgeous, no surprise there) and slipped it over the original fork just for fun. The baseplate fits???? The LBS guys measured the thing with a caliper and it came out to 26.2. I tried a CK baseplate off a threadless headset and it was huge. Chris King uses one size ISO 26.4 baseplate (race) for 1" forks as far as I know and you can get it in stainless steel or Ti. I have no idea why this one fits but it means I'll be using the fork the frame came with. I have to keep it matching numbers made by the same person. The rake is better too for me on the original one.
How does this happen?

I even ran the baseplate under hot water. The thing was in a cold UPS truck all day. Cold metal constricts. The plate fits very snug and will need tools to get it seated fully. The NOS fork is heading back I guess unless someone wants it for what I paid. Act quick or it's going back to Portland, OR. a.s.a.p.

UPDATE: baseplate is on the old fork. NOS aero fork heading back to Portland, OR. If you're interested in the fork I'm sure it'll be back on eBay in a week or two

[ArtB73]

Instead of piling up a bunch of spacers I went the "custom" route.
40mm 11/8" with a trimmed sticker.
There's no way I could build this thing without some spacers because the head tube is so, so tiny (72mm.)
If it looks silly with two head badges I can just peel it off.
The thing kinda looks like a badass shot glass

[ArtB73]

I just dropped off the MASI at my local bike shop to get it assembled. If I had the proper tools and space I'd do it myself. The shop always does a great job and doesn't charge much.
There's still mountains of snow everywhere so it'll still be a while before it gets ridden.

[Wolfman]

Any full build pics yet?

[numbskull]

Very cool project. You might consider trimming the green shield out of the second head badge and using just that. Less distracting from the original.

[ArtB73]

I really didn't like how the threadless stem and spacer looked - they were fatter than the frame tubes and looked terrible. The bars were way too big also.
I'm switching to a quill stem (no unsightly spacer) and a thinner profile bar. It's going to look so much better than what I originally planned.
I've been busy lately so it's been going slow.
I'll post pics soon!

[ArtB73]

I took a couple of snapshots with my phone. I need to take some quality pics. Every angle looks funny when you move the camera. The bars look huge in some shots and the geometry of the frame looks kooky in others. Anyway, here are a few pics. I slid the saddle forward - not sure why it was so far back (outdoor photos.)

[ArtB73]

another pic

[ArtB73]

a couple more…

the bars are approx. 2.5" lower than the saddle but it's kinda hard to tell in the profile shot

Yup, mtb pedals. What can I say? I like the eggbeaters.

…and the IBOC stem logo (by Mongoose) will be fixed soon enough

[ArtB73]

Yeah, I really need to take better shots. When I take photos of my paintings (artballelli.com) it sometimes takes me hours to make them look like the original. Cameras have a weird way of making things look, well, weird.

[ArtB73]

Very cool project. You might consider trimming the green shield out of the second head badge and using just that. Less distracting from the original.

New pics are up. They're not great shots but you'll see what it looks like.

No green shield sticker or any threadless adapter junk.

[ArtB73]

I'd love to get some really decent photos with proper lighting and a background like the hills of Italy (actually Carlsbad, CA.) I have a friend that photographs exotic cars but he lives a ways away. He'd do it for free or maybe a couple slices of pizza.

this would be the ideal "glamour shot" :^)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/baumcycles/with/16230295413/

[ArtB73]

I got some decals from VeloInk that covered the original silk screened "IBOC" logos. It looks pretty awesome in my opinion. The narrow font reminds me of a vintage Gary Fisher or Marin. The effect is very subtle when the entire bike is viewed.
Also, how hot is that black Sotto Voce 2Nut Chris King headset? The new Shimano calipers are beasts.

The bars are 42cm 25.4 Dimension Double Grooves that I painted flat black. They weren't the easiest things to put on with the pinch bolt style stem.

The last two things to add are a cycling computer (which i have) on the bars and a clear chain stay protector - I think that's it. I also need to add some miles to it. :^)

The mechanic at the l.b.s. said it was the newest looking old frameset he's ever seen.

[Hindmost]

Nicely put together.

How are your toes getting along with the front tire?

[ArtB73]

There's a bit of toe overlap. I'm not too concerned. I think at speed it'll be fine. I tend to unclip at stop lights and not do track stands so that's a good thing. The bottom bracket shell is really narrow so that doesn't help any. If I find I feel squished I can get longer spindles from Crank Bros. Spreading my feet out will diminish the overlap.

I had a Rhygin for years and from photos it looked like it was similar. I never once noticed any overlap while riding.

[Hindmost]

I agree that toe overlap is not a big deal. I only ask because of the nature of your bike's geometry and how you have been able to set it up.

Very cool bike, enjoy!

[ArtB73]

I took a few photos with my real camera. I still want better shots but it's a bike and not a piece of art so I'll snap a few once it has some road grunge on it.

I used to do an MS150 ride every summer but couldn't the last few years. I started a new job recently so I may have time to get some rides in including a 150(+)MS ride - it's always just over 150 just to zap your legs and lungs! This will be the bike unless I decide my other bike needs to do it again.

[ArtB73]

I had a Wound Up fork custom painted. Changed my headset to thread less. Changed the stem. I'm liking the finished product.

[ArtB73]

Today is the frame's b-day. 29 years old. Where does the time go?

[Avincent52]

Very cool bike.
In terms of photographing the bike, you seem to be using a wide angle setting on the lens, which exaggerates the proportions of the bike.

Get waaaaaay back fromt he bike and use a telephoto setting that will "compress" everything and minimize the distortion of the handlebars.

[ultraman6970]

Dunno why the fillets reminds me Tesch.

Tesch was with masi when this bikes were made or he was already alone? anybody knows?

[ArtB73]

The bars do look gigantic. I thought backing up would do the trick - I just haven't done it yet. Thanks for the advice.
You might be able to tell in the pic that the bike is still in pristine condition partly because I'm taking care of it and partly because I never get a chance to ride it.
I'll, more than likely, do a MS150 ride next summer. I may not use this bike for that but I will have to do a bit of training. It rides very, very nice. The spacers (in the distorted photo) look really tall but they're not too bad (37mm). The bars are about an inch lower than the ones on my other bike and definitely feel low.
If anyone is looking for a "racey" but comfy saddle look no further than Fabric. The Scoop Shallow saddle is awesome.

[ArtB73]

this is how the bike has been for a bit. 1" Mizuno Fiandre fork (very, very rare) custom painted by Spectrum Powderworks and a Nitto stem. Also, a Ritchey BioMax bar. I'm very happy with the final results

[ArtB73]

Very cool bike.
In terms of photographing the bike, you seem to be using a wide angle setting on the lens, which exaggerates the proportions of the bike.

Get waaaaaay back fromt he bike and use a telephoto setting that will "compress" everything and minimize the distortion of the handlebars.


new bars are smaller and i stepped back for the shot