re-inventing saddle clamps: STOP!

[Climb01742]

when you mess with your saddle a lot, and try various new saddles trying to find one that works, you also mess with seatpost saddle clamps a lot. a word to the bike industry:

for the love of god, STOP!

it's been invented. please stop trying to re-invent it. the single-bolt clamp that campy and shimano use is simple, easy to adjust and holds. why have two bolts when one works just swell? does any seatpost really work better than a campy record or DA? does anyone need two bolts? do they do something better than the one-bolt design? the one small crack of light escaping from this door that needs to be slammed shut forever is the clamp on the bontrager race x lite post. it does make adjusting tilt_somewhat_easier, but record/DA posts seem like the definitive answer.

[e-RICHIE]

hey some people feel that way about frame material.
thanks for reading amiatttw cheers :beer:

[Climb01742]

hey some people feel that way about frame material.
thanks for reading amiatttw cheers :beer:

but they're, sadly, regrettably, misguided. :p

[coylifut]

do you remember the Nouvo Record posts with two bolts and the bent wrench to adjust it? I still have the wrench. I like the current 2 bolt posts for my mountain and cross bikes.

[e-RICHIE]

but they're, sadly, regrettably, misguided. :p


yeah me and the coach jumped ugly on them
and sent the whole lot over to the seatpost room.

[Climb01742]

I like the current 2 bolt posts for my mountain and cross bikes.

terry, just curious...why? what do the two bolts do better...not fightin'...just wonderin'...;)

[Jeff N.]

Right. One's enough. Jeff N.

[dirtdigger88]

climb-

as much as I love my Dura Ace posts- I still thing my Thomson was easier to micro adjust- especially on the tilt-

its not that its hard with the DA unit- its just easier with the Thomson- now granted- once I set it- Im done for the most part

but I will say that while trying to adjust my Brooks Pro saddle's tilt on my kirk-it feels like I should go in between the two "stop points" on my DA post-

Jason

tmotioliidgaff- :p

[vaxn8r]

climb-

as much as I love my Dura Ace posts- I still thing my Thomson was easier to micro adjust- especially on the tilt-

its not that its hard with the DA unit- its just easier with the Thomson- now granted- once I set it- Im done for the most part

but I will say that while trying to adjust my Brooks Pro saddle's tilt on my kirk-it feels like I should go in between the two "stop points" on my DA post-

Jason

tmotioliidgaff- :p
I agree. One bolt works fine, but sometimes the two bolt gets the angle perfect. Also I do think the two bolters make it easier to adjust fore and aft without also having the up down angle move at the same time. But it's such a small thing, I guess I've never really thought about it enough to care.

[Ozz]

...but I will say that while trying to adjust my Brooks Pro saddle's tilt on my kirk-it feels like I should go in between the two "stop points" on my DA post-

Jason

tmotioliidgaff- :p
http://hca.gilead.org.il/princess.html

;)

[93legendti]

when you mess with your saddle a lot, and try various new saddles trying to find one that works, you also mess with seatpost saddle clamps a lot. a word to the bike industry:

for the love of god, STOP!

it's been invented. please stop trying to re-invent it. the single-bolt clamp that campy and shimano use is simple, easy to adjust and holds. why have two bolts when one works just swell? does any seatpost really work better than a campy record or DA? does anyone need two bolts? do they do something better than the one-bolt design? the one small crack of light escaping from this door that needs to be slammed shut forever is the clamp on the bontrager race x lite post. it does make adjusting tilt_somewhat_easier, but record/DA posts seem like the definitive answer.

YES! Gosh, I hate 2 clamp posts--like the Thompson, great post, but way too tough to adjust and readjust. Easton, Campy Chorus Ti, Ritchey, anythign (well almost) 1 bolt and I am in!

[FierteTi52]

Doesn't a zero offset post like a Thomson need a to be designed with 2 bolts because it's has no offset?
Jeff

[Louis]

I still thing my Thomson was easier to micro adjust- especially on the tilt-

its not that its hard with the DA unit- its just easier with the Thomson- now granted- once I set it- Im done for the most part

I agree 100%

Being able to adjust one variable without messing with the other is a big advantage for me. If there could only be one seatpost clamp design in the world I would vote for the Thomson two-bolt method.

Louis

[Samster]

for the love of god, STOP!

hey, i just dropped bucks on a Salsa Shaft. i think it's pretty neato. i don't think they should stop. atmo, b.iwfd. word. i think that works iirc. mebbe not. mp.

[dave thompson]

I've had a Salsa Shaft post for a couple of years now and it's got all the others beat, hands down. It has a cam acutated saddle tilt adjustment which is independent of the fore/aft adjustment. Plus there's no 'click' stops like many one bolt posts have on their tilt.

[Samster]

I've had a Salsa Shaft post for a couple of years now and it's got all the others beat, hands down. Saddle tilt and fore/aft adjustments are made independently of each other. Plus there's no 'click' stops like many one bolt posts have on their tilt.

you're the reason i got that salsa shaft. thanks for the tip. :cool:

[dave thompson]

you're the reason i got that salsa shaft. thanks for the tip. :cool:
You like my shaft? :D

[Samster]

You like my shaft? :D

:eek: :rolleyes: ;) :eek: :D :D :o :confused:

[CNote]

e-Richie,

No problems with the Oval Concepts post?

[e-RICHIE]

e-Richie,

No problems with the Oval Concepts post?


none never iirc

[Grant McLean]

not all two bolt posts are bad.

IMHO, YMMV, IIRC, ATMO, YO!

-g

[Samster]

not all two bolt posts are bad.

IMHO, YMMV, IIRC, ATMO, YO!

-g

ymmv? ***.

[christian]

I guess you've never used the Salsa Shaft. Infinitely adjustable eccentric tilt adjustment independent of fore-aft adjustment

Try that with a one bolter. But the Nitto one-bolter is better lookin'.

- Christian

[jerk]

it's a seatpost. as long as it has set back and puts the seat in the right place it doesn't matter. personally the jerk prefers a dimpled, ceramic seatpost that's red.

jerk

[Grant McLean]

it's a seatpost. as long as it has set back and puts the seat in the right place it doesn't matter.
jerk

word. I don't find myself adjusting a post more than about once.
What difference does it really make how easy it is to move it?
It's not a gear shift. Now how it looks, that's REAL important :banana:

-g

[davids]

word.

Now how it looks, that's REAL important :banana:

-g
word

And its diameter, don't forget its diameter...

[Grant McLean]

word

And its diameter, don't forget its diameter...

David,
Only if it's more than 30.8 and less than 31.0 !

-g

[Grant McLean]

ymmv? ***.

metric: YKMMV

-g

[Samster]

word

And its diameter, don't forget its diameter...

girth. it's girth.

[Tailwinds]

Ildg Imho

[pdxmech13]

we don't need no stinkin' post

[Samster]

these posts are a set-back.

[Dr. Doofus]

two bolt nipple clamp

[catulle]

The Record post also has the 8mm bolt in the middle that you need to tweak in order to properly adjust the position of the saddle. Dealing with that little screw and the hexagonal one can get a little tricky at times. I guess what I´m trying to say is that the Record post is not a paradigm of practical simplicity, although at first glance it may seem so. No biggie, I´m just trying to make a small point. Sorry.

[classic1]

The old Suntour Superbe Pro posts were great. Microadjustable, two bolts, simple to use, reasonable set back.

[William]

American Classic is a simple one bolt clamp design to hold the saddle in place plus a small micro adjust Allen screw. Very simple to adjust and once done, stays in place.
The Hellbent post with a Flite saddle on the other hand is one serious pain in the a$$ to get adjusted and locked down. But, once it's done it's not doing any where, and it has lots of setback. I all most threw it out the window about 10x's while getting that one adjusted and locked in place. Now done it's pretty sweet.


William

[bironi]

I too like my campy one bolt infinite adjustment better than my Thompson two bolt, and it looks sweeter.

[nobrakes]

I have to agree that any one-bolt post like DA or Campy is the superior design, but I also use and like my 2-bolt vintage (?) Synchros post on my Santa Cruz. Very easy to get angles and setback done quickly.
A real stupid design, imho, is the Ritchie 2-bolt design. What's up with that? I bought one for my wife's bike by just reading the description in a catalogue. Thought it would be like the Synchros design, with adj. bolts fore and aff. Lo and behold, it's got 2 bolts, left and right. It's difficult to adjust, slips out of position, and I finally got rid of it when I snapped off one of the bolts, trying to get it tight enough to not slip. Ritchie's got some cool products, but this ain't one of them.

[rpm]

My theory is that if you have a flat saddle that you want level (as you should), then a one-bolt seatpost is fine. But if you have a curved saddle (e.g., brooks,turbomatic, regal, aliante) then you need really fine angle adjustments, and for that you need two bolts. I like curved saddles, and I like to get the front of the saddle level, which means there's an upsweep at the back and the saddle tilts slightly down back to front.

As the saddle gets older, it sometimes gets more swayback, requiring that the angle be adjusted from time to time. My current favorite post is an alloy FSA. FSA has a really nice two bolt mechanism that is easy to adjust precisely, and it holds its adjustment (unlike my experience with the Salsa shaft)

[Ray]

Like another similar opinion is needed, but I'll chime in anyway with those who think that beyond holding the saddle steady, a seatpost should be able to:

1. Micro-adjust the tilt (not have 'stops' that you can't get between), and

2. Adjust the tilt and location independently

The American Classic is perhaps the simplest design that does this, but the Salsa Shaft, a really ugly race face post, and a few others that I'm not familiar with also do this. Height and setback are easy enough to nail on any post, but getting the tilt right and doing it without screwing up the setback can be a real PIA on any one-bolt post I've used. I don't prefer the Thompson design, where you have to loosen one bolt and tighten the other to adjust tilt - it can be tough to hold the right adjustment once you've found it and you need to tighten everything up evenly. But they can work well enough.

But anyway, Climb, this is one of the rare cases where I disagree with you - glad they didn't leave well enough alone. Like they should have with frame materials. Well, once they got to titanium anyway :cool:

-Ray

[palincss]

when you mess with your saddle a lot, and try various new saddles trying to find one that works, you also mess with seatpost saddle clamps a lot. a word to the bike industry:

for the love of god, STOP!

it's been invented. please stop trying to re-invent it. the single-bolt clamp that campy and shimano use is simple, easy to adjust and holds. why have two bolts when one works just swell? does any seatpost really work better than a campy record or DA? does anyone need two bolts? do they do something better than the one-bolt design? .

Those of us who have been around for a while will recall that the Campagnolo Record once was a two-bolt seatpost. I had one on my 1972 Paramount.

Like all two-bolt seatposts I've ever tried, it was vastly better at fine-tuning the seat angle than any one-bolt post. Tediously slow, true; but you dialed in the angle with very fine threaded screws, and it was easy to nail half a degree or less. And when you made a small angle adjustment, you didn't loosen up everything: angle, fore-aft, the works, as is typical for one-bolters.

And, like the other two-bolt posts I've used, which include an American Classic clone and the Salsa Shaft, the range of adjustment was continuous -- again, unlike most one-bolters, which use fairly coarse notches that are either under or over, but no way to get right on the correct angle.

In short, two-bolters do everything better than one-bolt posts.

[stevep]

i agree w/ pal above. the 2 bolts works far better... very easy to make minute corrections. a little slower initially to get the thing together..but once together it is truly microadjust...and very simple to change the tilt.
like someone above...superbe pro post was excellent, original camy 2 bolt... pain but true microadjust.
selcof now...easy...

[catulle]

Is this any good?

[e-RICHIE]

Is this any good?


for what?

[catulle]

for what?

Stirring chili?

[fiamme red]

for what?Catching alligators?

[catulle]

The Moots Test. Aka: The saddle post test, The ink blot test, The Rorschach test, The Chester test....

[e-RICHIE]

The Moot Test. Aka: The saddle post test, The ink blot test, The Rorschach test, The Chester test....


alt.agriculture.seatposts

[Climb01742]

maybe i'm less mechanically adept than others but i find trying to microadjust two bolts maddeningly frustrating. and do two bolts really microadjust any better than a bontrager post? that said, for sheer mechanical gee-whiz-ness, this post seems kinda neat. no idea if it works well, but someone has been tinkering:

http://www.raceface.com/components/seatposts/nextsl-post.htm#

so what do folks think is the best two-bolt post? surely not a thompson. and isn't an american classic a bit heavy? these comments aren't meant to pick a fight...i'm truly curious.

[William]

Like another similar opinion is needed, but I'll chime in anyway with those who think that beyond holding the saddle steady, a seatpost should be able to:

1. Micro-adjust the tilt (not have 'stops' that you can't get between), and

2. Adjust the tilt and location independently

The American Classic is perhaps the simplest design that does this,.....

The AC post is probably the easiest to adjust that I've played with. It was mentioned earlier, but once I get my saddle on, it's on. I'm not one to go changing things out when I have something that works for me. I've been using Flites since the mid 90's. If the post is doing what it should (not slipping), and it still looks good, it stays on.

I no touch if I don't have to. So once on, it's on.


William

[Ray]

The AC post is probably the easiest to adjust that I've played with. It was mentioned earlier, but once I get my saddle on, it's on. I'm not one to go changing things out when I have something that works for me. I've been using Flites since the mid 90's. If the post is doing what it should (not slipping), and it still looks good, it stays on.

I no touch if I don't have to. So once on, it's on.


William
Yeah, I use 'em a lot too. The only downside is that a very small top part of the clamp is all that clamps the saddle which arguably isn't as strong as other posts. I've heard stories of broken rails from using these posts. I've never had this problem though, so I have several of these on bikes. They also have a decent amount of setback, although not as much as some. And, no Climb, Am Classic aren't heavy. I guess compared to some of the lightest carbon posts out there they might be, but they're pretty light for an aluminium post and they're inexpensive too. Only about $35 or so last time I looked.

-Ray

[stevep]

ac has historically had trouble with qc on their seatposts... meaning the seatpost binder need to be "too tight" to hold the post from slipping, etc.
this may no longer be an issue... but was for a long time.
a 27.2 was actually 27.19 or something...made a big difference.

[Samster]

...It was mentioned earlier, but once I get my saddle on, it's on. I'm not one to go changing things out when I have something that works for me. I've been using Flites since the mid 90's. If the post is doing what it should (not slipping), and it still looks good, it stays on.

I no touch if I don't have to. So once on, it's on.

William

i change my saddle position every single time i go out for a ride... makes me feel like eddy merckx or something to be that anal... wait... this makes no sense. just forget i wrote this as it's all bs anyway... HA! ila. trying hard to get to 400 posts...

[dirtdigger88]

i change my saddle position every single time i go out for a ride... makes me feel like eddy merckx or something to be that anal... wait... this makes no sense. just forget i wrote this as it's all bs anyway... HA! ila. trying hard to get to 400 posts...

go ride your effin bike or teach a class or something-

Jason

[Samster]

go ride your effin bike or teach a class or something-

Jason

ok mr. 3,550 posts.

[palincss]

Is this any good?

No, you can clearly see it's bent.

:no:

[lnomalley]

Is this any good?
moots posts are the absolute worst.. enough so that after my experiences with them i would never even think of a moots frame no matter how pretty the welds and the adverts. their design solution involves having to pry the clamp apart with a couple of screwdrivers in order to get the saddle into the clamp (it isnt easy, it takes too much time, it mars the clamp, and you f. up your hands). it's the dumberest design ever and makes those stupid U.S.E. posts seem brilliant.
i hate that post.
:(

[catulle]

Ok, that settles that; good to know. Thanks.

[William]

Yeah, I use 'em a lot too. The only downside is that a very small top part of the clamp is all that clamps the saddle which arguably isn't as strong as other posts. I've heard stories of broken rails from using these posts. I've never had this problem though, so I have several of these on bikes. They also have a decent amount of setback, although not as much as some. And, no Climb, Am Classic aren't heavy. I guess compared to some of the lightest carbon posts out there they might be, but they're pretty light for an aluminium post and they're inexpensive too. Only about $35 or so last time I looked.

-Ray

I haven't had any problem with breakage on th AC posts. I sarted using back in the 90's and they have carried my 250 - 260 pound arse just fine. Though I should point out I;ve been using their MTB posts on my road bike. Not much heavier. At my strength and weight range, weight weenie components are not on my radar. ;)


William

[vaxn8r]

....so what do folks think is the best two-bolt post? surely not a thompson. and isn't an american classic a bit heavy? these comments aren't meant to pick a fight...i'm truly curious.
What do you mean "surely not a thompson"? Did I miss something?

[Climb01742]

What do you mean "surely not a thompson"? Did I miss something?

vax, that's a very personal reaction to thompson posts. i just find fiddling with their two bolts frustrating. something like an AC post, i can see that their two bolt design minimizes fiddling while maximizing adjustments. and certainly two caveats are very true: i'm not mechanically inclined at all (so simplicity attracts me) and i'm in the midst of saddle hell, so i'm messing with saddles and posts a lot, so that colors my reactions.

[Tom]

I have one of those dreaded Thomson no set back jobbies with the two bolts you speak of and I keep track of how many turns they get tightening and loosening. Shifting fore and aft is easy, swapping seats that much harder but if you keep count you should come out the same level. I guess. I swap the same brand of seat when one wears out so maybe if you're changing seat makes it screws everything up.

I shut up and get more coffee now. F-ing trainer ride this morning because like a genius I made a car appt at 7:30 and have to wait for it before going to work.

[chrisroph]

thomson
ritchey
superbe
old notchless campys--2 bolt or the slip fit infinitely adjustable records
ac but the saddle rocks a bit bc the clamping surface is so small

I tried a new campy with a serrated notched binding surface and it sucked because I could not get the needed angle

thomson are the strongest, slickest designs, very easy to adjust the angle and I have no worries about breakage of the post or saddle rails.

[Louis]

OK,

I have to ask, (if only to keep this thread going)

What's so durn hard about adjusting a two-bolt post?

If you want to adjust the fore-aft position you loosen both bolts a little, move the saddle then re-tighten.

If you want to adjust the pitch you loosen the bolt at the end that needs to go up and tighten the bolt at the end that needs to go down. (Always loosen, then tighten, not the other way around.)

Nothing could be simpler, IMO.

Louis

[Samster]

OK,

I have to ask, (if only to keep this thread going)

What's so durn hard about adjusting a two-bolt post?

If you want to adjust the fore-aft position you loosen both bolts a little, move the saddle then re-tighten.

If you want to adjust the pitch you loosen the bolt at the end that needs to go up and tighten the bolt at the end that needs to go down. (Always loosen, then tighten, not the other way around.)

Nothing could be simpler, IMO.

Louis

i'm with Louis... those Thomson posts have the little markings as well to tell you what's what. of course, rail angles on saddles are often different so those numbers are basically useless if your flipping seats. i recommend a graduated liquid protractor with a built in plumbline... i have no idea what i just said and i'm sure it shows.

[lnomalley]

thomson posts are the easiest things in the world to get right. you can micro adjust them. a lot of guys go far beyond what you have to go when tightening down the clamp on the seat rails and then get confused because it changes the level of the saddle. they don't realize tht the saddle is already well clamped and that the rest is just room to dial in the millimetrically precise saddle level.

the only negative about thomson is that they setback post is fugly.
imho atmo fugmo

[Climb01742]

ok, i'm an idiot (i freely admit it.) this is embarrassing to say but with a thomson post, i can't for the life of me keep straight which way to turn each bolt to either loosen or tighten, meaning to raise or lower either the tip or tail of saddle. there, i said it. so help me. i can never tell if i'm loosening or tightening the damn things.

but with the way a bontrager post works, isn't the thomson design unnecessarily complicated?

but hey, if someone can describe -- in idiot-friendly language ;) -- how to know which way to turn the front and back bolts on a thomson, i'm open to learning...or at least trying!

here's my brain: 100% creative, 0% mechanical.

[vaxn8r]

but hey, if someone can describe -- in idiot-friendly language ;) -- how to know which way to turn the front and back bolts on a thomson, i'm open to learning...or at least trying!


Looking up at the bolt...clockwise tightens, counterclockwise loosens. Like any bolt/screw. Maybe because it's upside down....

[davep]

OK, as I taught my wife, as you are looking at the bolt head - righty tighty, lefty loosey. The confusing thing on seatposts is that you generally are looking at them sideways or upside down.

[Climb01742]

this is where i get confused...does it matter which way you're looking at the bolt from underneath...meaning, if you look at the back bolt from the tail direction...and you look at the front bolt from the tip direction...is loosey-left and righty-tighty the same? i told you i was an idiot.

[davep]

I know what you mean, I sometimes have to think about it when I adjust my Thomson seatpost. If you are looking at the screw head, it is the same either way, whether the front or rear. But what might get confusing is that you often have to turn the screw opposite directions. To adjust the tilt down at the front, you would have to loosen (turn left or counterclockwise) the rear screw and tighten (turn right) the front.

[sspielman]

OK, as I taught my wife, as you are looking at the bolt head - righty tighty, lefty loosey. The confusing thing on seatposts is that you generally are looking at them sideways or upside down.

ATMO, the problem might very well be that the Thomson posts are so ugly that you can't even stand to look at them to adjust them...and have to do it with your eyes closed...

[shralp]

anyone else scratching their heads over how someone with 27 high end bikes under their belt is having difficulties with righty-tighty?

[Climb01742]

I know what you mean, I sometimes have to think about it when I adjust my Thomson seatpost. If you are looking at the screw head, it is the same either way, whether the front or rear. But what might get confusing is that you often have to turn the screw opposite directions. To adjust the tilt down at the front, you would have to loosen (turn left or counterclockwise) the rear screw and tighten (turn right) the front.

thanks, dave. i appreciate the tutorial. :beer:

[Climb01742]

anyone else scratching their heads over how someone with 27 high end bikes under their belt is having difficulties with righty-tighty?

it's all about how someone's mind works. i'm mechanically clueless. but if i asked you to write, cast, film, edit and score at TV spot, how well do you think you'd do?

[93legendti]

thanks, dave. i appreciate the tutorial. :beer:

I like T posts. But, for me, the adjust/tighten bolts are too close to the post and make tightening harder than necessary.

[1centaur]

I have a Thomson on almost all my bikes, including the trainer which is where I like to experiment with new saddles, so I do a lot of saddle swapping.

Here's the advice, looking at the side of the saddle since that's where you are likely to be: rotate the wrench in the front bolt from your right brifter towards your left brifter (which changes the FRONT derailleur) and you are pulling the nose (FRONT) of the saddle down (and tightening that bolt).

Use the front bolt to set the tilt and the back bolt to tighten up the saddle fairly well before you finish in the front. Tightening the REAR bolt means rotating the wrench from the left brifter to the right brifter (which changes the REAR derailleur).

The other tip is to undo the front bolt completely and push that bottom piece (half-pipe) out when you are taking a saddle off. Trying to keep it on just so you don't have to engage the front nut from scratch is not worth the hassle of wrestling the saddle off and on depending on the way your saddle rails are shaped.

I frequently look at other post designs and keep coming back to the Thomson.

BTW - I told you not to get into saddle hell, Climb! It's a lousy place to be.

[Climb01742]

i'm still curious, though...doesn't this design give you infinite tilt adjustment more simply?

[Climb01742]

BTW - I told you not to get into saddle hell, Climb! It's a lousy place to be.

centaur, deep in hell i am. my butt is tres sore. this morning i actually dreaded going for my training ride, and i never dread it. sitting in a chair or in my car is painful. i am gonna go back to my aliante and with a bontrager post -- for fast simple on the road tweaks -- and try to get out of hell.

hey, have you ridden your 585 yet?

[victoryfactory]

My all time favorite post.
They have the best clamp setup I ever used with super easy
adjustment
It's such a cool design, I can't figure out why Easton
(or sombody else) doesn't use it any more.

[Ray]

it's all about how someone's mind works. i'm mechanically clueless. but if i asked you to write, cast, film, edit and score at TV spot, how well do you think you'd do?
We all do different stuff well and different stuff badly. But based on the degree of your mechanical confusion, I'm revising my earlier recommendation and am now thinking maybe you shouldn't try a fixie - I'm not sure you can be trusted with a locknut over a track cog :beer: :beer:

-Ray

[1centaur]

"hey, have you ridden your 585 yet?"

You should ask our mutual acquaintance exactly how fast those boats are from the Continent. That's why I order in the dead of winter - the delays don't hurt as much.

[Louis]

but hey, if someone can describe -- in idiot-friendly language ;) -- how to know which way to turn the front and back bolts on a thomson, i'm open to learning...or at least trying!

Here's one way to do this:

1) All the bolts on the Thomsom are right-handed threads.

2) This works for all right hand threaded bolts (or nuts).

3) With your right hand make a fist. Stick out your thumb as if you are hitching a ride.

4) Line up the axis of your thumb with the axis of the bolt.

5) When you turn the bolt in the direction in which your fingers curl, the bolt (or the nut) will move in the direction in which your thumb is pointing. Flip your hand around and turn in the other direction to go the other way.

6) That's why they call it a right-handed thread. The same works for a left hand thread if you use your left hand instead.

7) It's the simplest thing in the world. Doesn't matter if you are looking at the bolt from the head or the end, the rule is the same. Doesn't matter if you are looking at the saddle from above or below. Point your thumb and your fingers will show the way.

Louis

[bluesea]

Yeah but only a mother could love that homely clamp head.