New Rim Suggestion for 205 lb rider

[Not the Slowest]

Building up a set of wheels using Ultegra hubs for my Sunday, long fast rides.
Currently I am 205-210 lbs muscular, more a masher than a spinner (but working on that).
Good climber for my size.

I have used Hed Belgiums and like the wider rim
Also Used Tried and tru Mavic Open Pros.

Leaning towards the Hed Belgium 32 spoke again, anything better?
Focus is simple, a nice strong rim that will keep me on the road with little worry.
Oh yeah had the A23's, they are not on my go to list.

Thanks Rob

[bking]

i'm similar size and have a set of the hed ardennes as well, recently bought a set of fulcrum zero two ways. very nice.

[Dired]

Have you considered HED Plus 25mm wheels? I'm currently waiting for a set to be built.

[DRZRM]

I'm about 15 lbs. heavier than you and 6'3" tall. I have two sets of 32 hole Record hubs laced to HED Belgium rims build by Echelon John (awesome builder). Wheels have been solid as a rock for years, and I spent ten days on them on my CX bike on MTB trails in Park City, UT and never needed to touch them with a spoke wrench (and I beat on them, more flats than I care to count). I recently built my own (fourth set of wheels I've built), DT Swiss to Pacenti SL23 rims, also 32 hole (mostly so I can go tubeless next time I head out west, hoping to avoid pinch flats) and they feel great so far. No reason to think they would not hold up equally well with tubes. I highly recommend those rims.

[Not the Slowest]

haven't thought of the 25's, but I can say the 23 wides do feel very nice would 25 feel nicer? Maybe. My concern obviously is comfort as all of us but durability. I want good components and from there I will count on my wheel builder to do their magic.


Have you considered HED Plus 25mm wheels? I'm currently waiting for a set to be built.

[Not the Slowest]

Echelon John is very good.
Which wrim were you HIGHLY reccomending, The HED Belgium or the Pacenti SL23?

I'm about 15 lbs. heavier than you and 6'3" tall. I have two sets of 32 hole Record hubs laced to HED Belgium rims build by Echelon John (awesome builder). Wheels have been solid as a rock for years, and I spent ten days on them on my CX bike on MTB trails in Park City, UT and never needed to touch them with a spoke wrench (and I beat on them, more flats than I care to count). I recently built my own (fourth set of wheels I've built), DT Swiss to Pacenti SL23 rims, also 32 hole (mostly so I can go tubeless next time I head out west, hoping to avoid pinch flats) and they feel great so far. No reason to think they would not hold up equally well with tubes. I highly recommend those rims.

[RedRider]

There are a lot of great rims available and if you want durable for 200+lbs you should go 32hole front & rear.

[DRZRM]

Sorry, I guess I'd recommend both, though it can be hard to find the HEDs these days and they are expensive. I was actually recommending the Pacenti rims, I think they are both at about the same level, the Pancentis are round and were easy to build up.

Echelon John is very good.
Which wrim were you HIGHLY reccomending, The HED Belgium or the Pacenti SL23?

[Not the Slowest]

I will be doing 32, always have..Thanks
There are a lot of great rims available and if you want durable for 200+lbs you should go 32hole front & rear.

[ultraman6970]

...

[oldpotatoe]

Building up a set of wheels using Ultegra hubs for my Sunday, long fast rides.
Currently I am 205-210 lbs muscular, more a masher than a spinner (but working on that).
Good climber for my size.

I have used Hed Belgiums and like the wider rim
Also Used Tried and tru Mavic Open Pros.

Leaning towards the Hed Belgium 32 spoke again, anything better?
Focus is simple, a nice strong rim that will keep me on the road with little worry.
Oh yeah had the A23's, they are not on my go to list.

Thanks Rob

DT 440....14/15 spokes, brass nips, laced 3 cross.

Or Pacenti or Archtypes.

[Kirk Pacenti]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have been wondering what the demand for a heavier version of the SL23 might be... say something in the 520-540g range.

If anyone here has an opinion, I'd be happy to consider putting this into production.

Cheers,
KP

[vqdriver]

i wonder what the trend/demand is for building up the tk540 rims. seems about like what you mentioned. isn't that the target audience?

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have been wondering what the demand for a heavier version of the SL23 might be... say something in the 520-540g range.

If anyone here has an opinion, I'd be happy to consider putting this into production.

Cheers,
KP

[herb5998]

Go with Belgium c2 plus, slight improvement, and a bulletproof rim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[velomonkey]

Broh, I'm the same weight and 6'3" - you do NOT need 32 hole wheels. You need a well built wheel.

Here is what I've ridden and never had any issues with

Fulcrum Racing 1s - ride 'em clincher or ride 'em tubless - Fulcrum don't care.

Mavic SLR - everyone will think they are lightweights - you'll know they are clinchers. Best aero clincher in my view - couldn't get them to flex, but keep those bad boys in wheel bags when not on the bike.

Right now I am also rocking a set of Bora 1s 50mm Tubular. Now issue there and it's a damn fast wheel.

The slowest wheels I ever rode
Ambrosia 32 hole Record wheels
DT Swiss 450 rims laced to record 32 hole

Wheels that were fine but did rub a bit
DT 415 laced to 28 DT Swiss 240 - go 425 rear 28 hub - I had 24 hub upfront. Gotta be built by a good wheel builder - I had Joe Young - I could get the 415 to rub but only when standing and cranking.

You are going way heavy and you will ride slower as a result. Just cause your big doesn't mean you need to rob yourself of speed.

[velomonkey]

Oh since I see you are in NYC, and the 415s I had - had them for 3 years and one year rode NYC. Never trued them once. Loved those wheels - Joe does it right.

FYI - I did have the Hed Belgium Plus laced at 28. Errr. I just didn't like them. I never 'felt' fast on them. Notice I didn't say I wasn't fast, I just never 'felt' it - you know. I'm totally fine with wide rims, those are wicked wide rims though (someone at HED was like 'now people like wide - these are wider). I'd show up with 23mm tires and people on group rides be like "you got 28mm tires on there?" I rode them with 23mm, 24mm and 25mm - yea they were plenty stiff, but I just felt like I was gear lower.

Give me the fulcrum Racing 1s with their 20mm width and silent hubs (I had king R45 laced to the HEDs) any day and twice on Sunday.

[HenryA]

Broh, I'm the same weight and 6'3" - you do NOT need 32 hole wheels. You need a well built wheel.

Here is what I've ridden and never had any issues with

Fulcrum Racing 1s - ride 'em clincher or ride 'em tubless - Fulcrum don't care.

Mavic SLR - everyone will think they are lightweights - you'll know they are clinchers. Best aero clincher in my view - couldn't get them to flex, but keep those bad boys in wheel bags when not on the bike.

Right now I am also rocking a set of Bora 1s 50mm Tubular. Now issue there and it's a damn fast wheel.

The slowest wheels I ever rode
Ambrosia 32 hole Record wheels
DT Swiss 450 rims laced to record 32 hole

Wheels that were fine but did rub a bit
DT 415 laced to 28 DT Swiss 240 - go 425 rear 28 hub - I had 24 hub upfront. Gotta be built by a good wheel builder - I had Joe Young - I could get the 415 to rub but only when standing and cranking.

You are going way heavy and you will ride slower as a result. Just cause your big doesn't mean you need to rob yourself of speed.

About all I can agree with in the above is that you do indeed need a "well built wheel".

Mavic, HED and Pacenti are good choices. 32 hole front and rear is the right answer.

[oldpotatoe]

Broh, I'm the same weight and 6'3" - you do NOT need 32 hole wheels. You need a well built wheel.

Here is what I've ridden and never had any issues with

Fulcrum Racing 1s - ride 'em clincher or ride 'em tubless - Fulcrum don't care.

Mavic SLR - everyone will think they are lightweights - you'll know they are clinchers. Best aero clincher in my view - couldn't get them to flex, but keep those bad boys in wheel bags when not on the bike.

Right now I am also rocking a set of Bora 1s 50mm Tubular. Now issue there and it's a damn fast wheel.

The slowest wheels I ever rode
Ambrosia 32 hole Record wheels
DT Swiss 450 rims laced to record 32 hole

Wheels that were fine but did rub a bit
DT 415 laced to 28 DT Swiss 240 - go 425 rear 28 hub - I had 24 hub upfront. Gotta be built by a good wheel builder - I had Joe Young - I could get the 415 to rub but only when standing and cranking.

You are going way heavy and you will ride slower as a result. Just cause your big doesn't mean you need to rob yourself of speed.

Gonna throw up the flag here, broh. Same rim and fewer spokes, 28 or 24 will not make you ride slower or faster. A 'well built' but poorly designed wheel for the rider will not make you anything but slower when something goes to hell. To imply the 'slow' wheels were slow cuz they were 32 hole does not compute.

[oldpotatoe]

Broh, I'm the same weight and 6'3" - you do NOT need 32 hole wheels. You need a well built wheel.

Here is what I've ridden and never had any issues with

Fulcrum Racing 1s - ride 'em clincher or ride 'em tubless - Fulcrum don't care.

Mavic SLR - everyone will think they are lightweights - you'll know they are clinchers. Best aero clincher in my view - couldn't get them to flex, but keep those bad boys in wheel bags when not on the bike.

Right now I am also rocking a set of Bora 1s 50mm Tubular. Now issue there and it's a damn fast wheel.

The slowest wheels I ever rode
Ambrosia 32 hole Record wheels
DT Swiss 450 rims laced to record 32 hole

Wheels that were fine but did rub a bit
DT 415 laced to 28 DT Swiss 240 - go 425 rear 28 hub - I had 24 hub upfront. Gotta be built by a good wheel builder - I had Joe Young - I could get the 415 to rub but only when standing and cranking.

You are going way heavy and you will ride slower as a result. Just cause your big doesn't mean you need to rob yourself of speed.

Gonna throw up the flag here. Same rim and fewer spokes, 28 or 24 will not make you ride slower. A 'well built' but poorly designed wheel for the rider will not make you anything but slower when something goes to hell. To imply the 'slow' wheels were slow cuz they were 32 hole does not compute.

Aluminum spokes and carbon rims make for different wheels. But to flatly say a big guy doesn't need 32 hole isn't accurate. To many variables.

ooops, duplicate-age..trying to do this on my phone with fat fingers.

[djg21]

Gonna throw up the flag here. Same rim and fewer spokes, 28 or 24 will not make you ride slower. A 'well built' but poorly designed wheel for the rider will not make you anything but slower when something goes to hell. To imply the 'slow' wheels were slow cuz they were 32 hole does not compute.

I was going to ask how 4 additional spokes and nipples, even brass ones, could make a wheel slower?

At the OP's size, the few extra grams are meaningless.

[Not the Slowest]

As expected comments are plentifull and varied.
Yes we all need WELL BUILT wheels.
Yes, I will always value a professional wheel builders opinion simply because if he screws up he loses a customer and knows the person who thinks this guy screwed me. In this regard some will suggest bombproof wheels others will be more inline with each other, but all say 32 spoke.

From my experience I may have popped a spoke less than 3x but even so I never walked home due to it.

Yes, Losing another 20 lbs will offer more options.

To quote Fiddler on the Roofs Tevye, "If I was a rich man" I would have many sets of wheels and just those fancy race wheels that all the guys have. Alas I am a working stiff and want to do this right and limit my regrets.

Suggestions and comments are valued and appreciated.

Gonna throw up the flag here. Same rim and fewer spokes, 28 or 24 will not make you ride slower. A 'well built' but poorly designed wheel for the rider will not make you anything but slower when something goes to hell. To imply the 'slow' wheels were slow cuz they were 32 hole does not compute.

Aluminum spokes and carbon rims make for different wheels. But to flatly say a big guy doesn't need 32 hole isn't accurate. To many variables.

[velomonkey]

This whole logic of saying "4 extra spokes means nothing" is totally fallacy.

First, I made a specific point to say "It didn't mean I was or wasn't faster" - so let's move on there, but maybe let's not.

When I had 32 spoked front and rear DT 450 rims laced to Record Hubs the weight of the wheels was around 1650 grams.

When I had DT 415 rims 28 rear/24 front laced to DT 415 rims with 240 hubs the weight was around 1510 grams.

That's 140 grams of rotational weight (please don't tell me we're gonna bring up rotational weight). Now, you go and do a 3 hour zone 3 ride with various grades and please tell me that it's totally meaningless. Simply not true.

My point was I could get the 415s to slightly rub, but I was willing to take that given their performance and since they were built by a good wheel builder I had zero issues with having to true them.

If 140 grams is meaningless the next step down from 1510 is 1370 - about the weight of my Bora's. I will, in fact, go up a 10% gradient hill faster with those wheels than I will with my 1500 gram wheels - the high gradient and slow speed negates the aero advantage. So why faster? Rotational Weight.

My point is that in my experience you can get a good performing wheel at 205 pounds. Contingent it's well built - that is all.

[jr59]

Oh boy... here we go! :help:

Somebody get me the popcorn.

:fight:

[oldpotatoe]

This whole logic of saying "4 extra spokes means nothing" is totally fallacy.

First, I made a specific point to say "It didn't mean I was or wasn't faster" - so let's move on there, but maybe let's not.

When I had 32 spoked front and rear DT 450 rims laced to Record Hubs the weight of the wheels was around 1650 grams.

When I had DT 415 rims 28 rear/24 front laced to DT 415 rims with 240 hubs the weight was around 1510 grams.

That's 140 grams of rotational weight (please don't tell me we're gonna bring up rotational weight). Now, you go and do a 3 hour zone 3 ride with various grades and please tell me that it's totally meaningless. Simply not true.

My point was I could get the 415s to slightly rub, but I was willing to take that given their performance and since they were built by a good wheel builder I had zero issues with having to true them.

If 140 grams is meaningless the next step down from 1510 is 1370 - about the weight of my Bora's. I will, in fact, go up a 10% gradient hill faster with those wheels than I will with my 1500 gram wheels - the high gradient and slow speed negates the aero advantage. So why faster? Rotational Weight.

My point is that in my experience you can get a good performing wheel at 205 pounds. Contingent it's well built - that is all.

Yes you can get a good performing wheel for a 205 pounder, if it's designed well, and then built well.

Nope, cuz they are stiffer, not lighter. Rotational weight differences of 150 grams or so is lost in the noise, for a rider and bike in the 100,000 gram range. There are so many other variables, to say 150-200 grams of weight anywhere means you automatically climb faster, well, lots of science says it isn't true, but so what...if ya think it is, if you do climb better on Boras..groovy..good for you.

http://www.analyticcycling.com/WheelsConcept_Page.html

[velomonkey]

to say 150-200 grams of weight anywhere means you automatically climb faster, well, lots of science says it isn't true, but so what...if ya think it is, if you do climb better on Boras..groovy..good for you.

http://www.analyticcycling.com/WheelsConcept_Page.html

The entire article you referenced assumes riding on a flat road - I referred to a 10% gradient. Not sure about you, but my rides are almost never flat, I ride in the real world - not a lab.

So - when the pros go to the tour, the giro and any other hilly race or stage and select a Bora 35 or, as is typical, a hyperon (e.g., Bora 50mm 1310, Bora 35mm 1230 and Hyperon 1231) well, they are just ignoring science and going on old witchcraft and superstition.

Puh - lease.

[palincss]

From my experience I may have popped a spoke less than 3x but even so I never walked home due to it.


Definitely YMMV here. A few cases in point:

- Young woman, svelte, couldn't weigh more than 120 lb breaks a spoke, low count wheel & racing frame, and the wheel won't turn even with the brake cable disconnected. Low spoke count wheel, "road bike."

- Middle aged woman, probably 140 lb breaks a spoke on a Trek Madone, wheel won't turn at all, ends up emailing the club looking for someone who can rescue her out in the middle of a ride. Walks 2 miles to meet someone who has driven 25 miles to get her.

- Big guy, 240 if he's an ounce, and 6'6" easy, low spoke count wheel & a racing bike. Breaks a spoke, wheel jams in rear triangle, sits it out for 2 hours before someone can come back in a truck to pick him up.

- The same day the big guy breaks his spoke, a fellow on my ride broke one too. He's riding a touring bike with a 36 spoke wheel. One of the riders in the group has a fiber replacement spoke, but he doesn't need it, just give him some duct tape to tape the broken spoke out of the way and he's good to go. The wheel isn't warped at all.

Good job, because we were halfway between Fairfield PA & Gettysburg, having started from Thurmont, and the closest place where he could even sit down to wait was over 3 miles away (Sachs covered bridge) and this being a 100k ride including a thorough tour of the battlefield we wouldn't have been back to the cars for another 4 hours.

[oldpotatoe]

The entire article you referenced assumes riding on a flat road - I referred to a 10% gradient. Not sure about you, but my rides are almost never flat, I ride in the real world - not a lab.

So - when the pros go to the tour, the giro and any other hilly race or stage and select a Bora 35 or, as is typical, a hyperon (e.g., Bora 50mm 1310, Bora 35mm 1230 and Hyperon 1231) well, they are just ignoring science and going on old witchcraft and superstition.

Puh - lease.

What I'm saying is the small differences in rotational weight, altho measureable, are very small, teeny small. I wish I could find it but a study said doubling the weight of a rim increased energy to spin up to the same speed .1 of 1% more.

They ride what's light but all are at about that 14.87 lb maximum.

Energy it takes to accelerate a bike is mass of bike and rider but ride and like what ha want...good for you.

[velomonkey]

Ok, this is my last example I will give as I don't want to pull it too far away from the OP.

In keeping with "it's all about 14.87" - let's say you are racing Liege - lots of ups and down, lots of flat, but a mixed course. Would you rather have, say a frame, doesn't matter say a Colnago c59 and Campy Bora 35mm @ 1230 grams for a total of 14.87

Or some wicked light cervelo frame, but ENVE 8.9 wheels @ 1554 grams for a total bike weight of 14.87.

There are few, if any, pro riders who pick the ENVE setup in that scenario (and yes, I know 14.87 isn't achieved that way - they put weight in their BB, but go with me). Most riders on a mixed course like that want to minimize wheel weight but get some type of aero. By your logic they should be going with the ENVE wheels since the difference is, as you have said, essentially, negligible.

I will take a heavier frame with a lighter wheel any day and every time over a lighter frame and heavier wheel.

The OP asked for rim suggestions, I gave 'em and, yea, it's only 140 grams, but 140 grams is half way there in the above scenario.

BTW, in the past 15 years only spoke I ever broke was a 32 hole power tap laced to a velocity rim. Got home no problem.

[oldpotatoe]

Ok, this is my last example I will give as I don't want to pull it too far away from the OP.

In keeping with "it's all about 14.87" - let's say you are racing Liege - lots of ups and down, lots of flat, but a mixed course. Would you rather have, say a frame, doesn't matter say a Colnago c59 and Campy Bora 35mm @ 1230 grams for a total of 14.87

Or some wicked light cervelo frame, but ENVE 8.9 wheels @ 1554 grams for a total bike weight of 14.87.

There are few, if any, pro riders who pick the ENVE setup in that scenario (and yes, I know 14.87 isn't achieved that way - they put weight in their BB, but go with me). Most riders on a mixed course like that want to minimize wheel weight but get some type of aero. By your logic they should be going with the ENVE wheels since the difference is, as you have said, essentially, negligible.

I will take a heavier frame with a lighter wheel any day and every time over a lighter frame and heavier wheel.

The OP asked for rim suggestions, I gave 'em and, yea, it's only 140 grams, but 140 grams is half way there in the above scenario.

BTW, in the past 15 years only spoke I ever broke was a 32 hole power tap laced to a velocity rim. Got home no problem.

Last post, In your example as to what they would pick, either on one rider, all things being eaual(but they never are), the result would be the same. Neither bike would mean, taken in isolation, one would equal victory, the other failure.

Stiffer, lighter frame, heavier wheels and less stiff frame, lighter wheels....same energy required to accelerate.

But you have an idea what ya like, go ride it and I'll stick to my 36 hole tubulars.

[fiamme red]

Last post, In your example as to what they would pick, either on one rider, all things being eaual(but they never are), the result would be the same. Neither bike would mean, taken in isolation, one would equal victory, the other failure.

Stiffer, lighter frame, heavier wheels and less stiff frame, lighter wheels....same energy required to accelerate.http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-does-wheel-weight-matter_223209

There is no question that if a rider climbs at constant speed, it doesn’t matter where the weight is located on the bike. Extra mass could be concentrated on the pedals, at the rims, in the frame, or in the hubs, and as long as the bike’s total weight is the same and it has otherwise the same characteristics, it will create the same resistance to the rider’s efforts.

That said, there is also no question that it takes more energy to accelerate the same amount of mass if it is located out on the rim as if it is located at the center of the wheel (or on the frame). This you can easily measure with a stopwatch on our Velo torsional pendulum we have been using for years to measure wheel rotational inertia: if you have two wheels of identical total mass but one of them has more mass out at the rim than the other, it will take it longer to twist back and forth once (i.e., the period of oscillation will be longer and the frequency of oscillation will be lower) on the torsional pendulum. But if there is a circumstance in which “rotational weight has four times as much effect, so that taking 400 grams off your wheels/tires is the same as taking 1.6 kilo off the bike,” it is a very isolated circumstance under extremely high acceleration from a slow speed to a high speed. Perhaps in a standing start in a pursuit or short time trial…

The bike always has to accelerate at least once to get up to speed, and that will take more energy to do if the added mass is at the rim than if it has instead been added to the frame. One question is whether the extra energy required for this initial acceleration is trivial and can be ignored or not. After that, even if the rider speeds up and slows down the same way on each bike without using the brakes, it will not matter where the extra weight is located, at least in the “ideal, frictionless universe” used in elementary physics calculations of motion. If the rider stops pedaling, even on a climb, he will be carried further up the hill by the flywheel effect of the heavier rims than he will be on the bike with weight added to the frame. Then when he starts pedaling again, he will end up at the same point in the same amount of time on either bike. This is the principle that Ondrej Sosenka depended upon when he set the hour record with heavy rims; he reasoned that the heavy rims would carry him along and keep the speed more constant as he went through periods of weakness and strength. It seemed to work for him; I’m not going to argue with that result.

[soulspinner]

The logical extreme of not stiff enough is flex that rubs rim to pad.....sure slowed me down.

[Duende]

I went 32 spoke front and rear and have no regrets. I fluctuate around 200lbs give or take 10lbs.

Anyways I'm in Italy touring across the southern boot. Was riding across on a street made out of granite stone. Out of nowher the street turns into a staircase.

Well my instincts took over, and I made it fine down all the way. When I got to the bottom though, I though for sure my wheels would be messed up. Because of my weight and the weight of the 20+ pounds of gear I have in my seat pack.

But nope.. My Archetypes laced 32 to Campy records are completely fine. :)

That was yesterday!