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cfox
10-07-2014, 12:10 PM
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Sayreville-High-School-Football-Season-Canceled-Hazing-Allegations-278319861.html

I'm impressed that someone had the balls to do something like this. There have been so many nauseating stories over the years of jocks involved in terrible stuff getting protected by communities. Oh, also, one of the assistant coaches was arrested for having a few boxes of steroids and syringes. Lovely.

Of course, many in the community aren't happy. From what I've read, a whole crew of Sayreville ex-jock meathead alumni chased and threatened a group of reporters trying to interview locals. The meatheads were wearing their varsity jackets. How very sad, disturbing and pathetic.

Richard
10-07-2014, 12:19 PM
The Superintendent showed real guts. He is a contract employee and serves at the discretion of the School Board. This will probably dominate the next Board election and, regardless of the school's academic results, renewal (or not) of his contract.

MattTuck
10-07-2014, 12:20 PM
accountability, maybe its coming back into style.

echelon_john
10-07-2014, 12:22 PM
Nice to see the concept of 'consequences' being reintroduced into childhood & young adulthood, albeit in rare, isolated instances.

Mr. Pink
10-07-2014, 12:25 PM
Won't last. Football is the closest thing to a national religion we have today. ESPN covers it 12 months out of the year, furcryingoutloud.

What else is there to do in Sayerville anyway? Good lord. Sayerville.

Corso
10-07-2014, 01:18 PM
Unfortunately, the victims of the hazing will become the target of the rest of the team and their parents.

Instead of blaming the aggressors, they will blame the kids who were hazed for “ratting them out”.

Youth sports in this country are out of control in general.

EDS
10-07-2014, 01:22 PM
I don't know about this specific case, and given the publicity and actions taken, it likely was over the top. That said, most of the sports teams I was involved in in high school and college (in college exclusively track and cross country) included some form of hazing, typically with the freshman/new recruits as the target. By and large, and I certainly am not a "jock", this was done as a team building exercise and was good natured.

Perhaps we were lucky or common sense ultimately ruled the day. I do struggle when I hear about these types of events and wonder if there were friends and teammates who did view it as more than just good natured team building.

I wonder if others share that view.

roydyates
10-08-2014, 12:07 AM
Won't last. Football is the closest thing to a national religion we have today. ESPN covers it 12 months out of the year, furcryingoutloud.

What else is there to do in Sayerville anyway? Good lord. Sayerville.

The town is Sayreville and I'm puzzled by your reaction. This town is ~25 miles from Manhattan. It's not Mayberry.

One side effect of the cancellation is that the youth of East Brunswick (where I live) have been spared a gruesome crushing defeat at the end of the month.

Louis
10-08-2014, 12:25 AM
Youth sports in this country are out of control in general.

In many cases not just youth sports.

christian
10-08-2014, 01:09 AM
Oh, also, one of the assistant coaches was arrested for having a few boxes of steroids and syringes. Lovely."Most sophisticated doping program..." Oh, never mind.

unterhausen
10-08-2014, 01:42 AM
it really would be nice if there was a general understanding of how unimportant sports are and how corrupting of institutions they have become. My high school had the crappyist team in the conference and they still walked around school bullying everyone like they were important. Hate to see how they would have been treated if they actually were any good. And, in retrospect, I guess we were all lucky they were losing to the team down the road that had 15 players total, because these big football high schools seem totally out of control.

oldpotatoe
10-08-2014, 07:36 AM
Unfortunately, the victims of the hazing will become the target of the rest of the team and their parents.

Instead of blaming the aggressors, they will blame the kids who were hazed for “ratting them out”.

Youth sports in this country are out of control in general.

FIFY-Sports in this and other countries are out of control in general. From these little kids thru Pro sports..College is about the worse. 'Student'-athletes my hairy B__t. Ever been to a HS type football game? I have, some of the parents, yes, many with too small varsity jackets on, are OOC...I can only imagine what happens when the little kid, if he 'underperforms, gets home. Too bad these fathead parents don't get all worked up when they do poorly in class. But Then it's the teacher's fault.

robin3mj
10-08-2014, 08:01 AM
Hunka Bunka!

binxnyrwarrsoul
10-08-2014, 08:06 AM
accountability, maybe its coming back into style.

Not likely.

paredown
10-08-2014, 08:09 AM
I'm just disappointed that it wasn't cancelled for budget reasons...

binxnyrwarrsoul
10-08-2014, 08:11 AM
See this stuff first hand, two kids in local (SW CT) school/college.

"accountability, maybe its coming back into style."

Don't get your hopes up.

"What else is there to do in Sayerville anyway? Good lord. Sayerville."

Not just in central Jersey. This is epidemic, in every small town, USA. As said, football is religion for a lot of people.

"...........one of the assistant coaches was arrested for having a few boxes of steroids and syringes..."

Win at all costs starts early.

fuzzalow
10-08-2014, 08:36 AM
I agree with much of the sentiment posted above. There will not be accountability until we choose to deemphasize the illusion and importance of football and other forms of mainstream organized sports. The way these sports permeate and dominate academics is a cancer on american society because sport does not coexist with academics and it corrupts our youth in elevating winning over character.

And when Johnny finds out he will not be the .01% that earns a professional athletic contract and never bothered to read and do math, then where does that leave all of us? I dunno about youse but I was fully planning on sponging benefits off of the younger wage earners in our society in my retirement years.

Mr. Pink
10-08-2014, 09:45 AM
The town is Sayreville and I'm puzzled by your reaction. This town is ~25 miles from Manhattan. It's not Mayberry.



I grew up in Jersey and went to Rutgers. Drove over that bridge many a time on the way to the shaw. Just my background.

Basically, Sayreville (sorry) is where all the industrial waste from the Raritan streams onshore before it heads out to the Atlantic, although there were a few plants there that contributed. It's a flat, depressing wasteland that smells most of the time. Yup, it's not Mayberry. More like, well, Sayreville. Oh, and it produced Bon Jovi. For that alone, it should be selectively nuked.

Football is what the rest of the country does while we, and anybody else who lives a life, enjoy a beautiful Saturday and Sunday afternoon. That's just one reason I don't follow the sport - I've got much better things to do than sit around and watch football on a nice, fall day. I think it's a major reason America is so obese, because they spend sometimes a whole weekend eating and drinking beer in front of the tube watching football. Then there's the violence it condones on and off the field, by both players and fans. But, hey, if you have nothing else in your life......

marsh
10-08-2014, 11:23 AM
"I think it's a major reason America is so obese, because they spend sometimes a whole weekend eating and drinking beer in front of the tube watching football."

I think we have to be careful about where we are placing the blame here.
The game itself (the strategies, the athleticism, the teamwork) is awesome IMO. It's the culture built around the game that is disgusting. As with baseball,
to me it starts with the adult corruption of youth sports. Too many big money
travel teams, sponsorship dollars, recruiter involvement. If the kid is really good, he will be sweated by some creepy coach or recruiter from an early age.
Parents will be promised things to turn a blind eye. Of course they end up with inflated senses of entitlement. Most kids just don't go out and play anymore. that's not the actual game's fault. Ya, my kid watches football with me on Sunday, but he's usually too exhausted to do anything else because we've already been out all morning playing the game.

54ny77
10-08-2014, 11:35 AM
that's why god invented light beer and baked potato chips.



Football is what the rest of the country does while we, and anybody else who lives a life, enjoy a beautiful Saturday and Sunday afternoon. That's just one reason I don't follow the sport - I've got much better things to do than sit around and watch football on a nice, fall day. I think it's a major reason America is so obese, because they spend sometimes a whole weekend eating and drinking beer in front of the tube watching football. Then there's the violence it condones on and off the field, by both players and fans. But, hey, if you have nothing else in your life......

fiamme red
10-08-2014, 11:37 AM
The town is Sayreville and I'm puzzled by your reaction. This town is ~25 miles from Manhattan. It's not Mayberry.It's actually only 10 miles from New York City, if you count Staten Island as the city. :banana:

DRZRM
10-08-2014, 11:44 AM
Man, from the headline, I just assumed that this would be about concussions/the three deaths of HS players last week. There will be no football in the future of the drzrm boys.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/living/football-death-sports-safety-parents/index.html?hpt=us_c2

Black Dog
10-08-2014, 11:54 AM
Here in Canada this would be a hockey storey. Very similar culture surrounding the sport.

tuxbailey
10-08-2014, 12:30 PM
I think you are painting with a very broad stroke.

I think it's a major reason America is so obese, because they spend sometimes a whole weekend eating and drinking beer in front of the tube watching football. Then there's the violence it condones on and off the field, by both players and fans. But, hey, if you have nothing else in your life......

verticaldoug
10-08-2014, 12:44 PM
"I think it's a major reason America is so obese, because they spend sometimes a whole weekend eating and drinking beer in front of the tube watching football."

I think we have to be careful about where we are placing the blame here.
The game itself (the strategies, the athleticism, the teamwork) is awesome IMO. It's the culture built around the game that is disgusting. As with baseball,
to me it starts with the adult corruption of youth sports. Too many big money
travel teams, sponsorship dollars, recruiter involvement. If the kid is really good, he will be sweated by some creepy coach or recruiter from an early age.
Parents will be promised things to turn a blind eye. Of course they end up with inflated senses of entitlement. Most kids just don't go out and play anymore. that's not the actual game's fault. Ya, my kid watches football with me on Sunday, but he's usually too exhausted to do anything else because we've already been out all morning playing the game.

I think there is a much simpler explanation. Some kids are just vicious. Football did not make them this way, they are just born mean. I'd guess there was always a little hazing going on with the program, but some of the older boys this time around were sick, vicious, and went too far. Why? Because they wanted to hurt people. It's that simple.

I played 3 sports. No hazing on the football, hockey or track teams in my old high school. But my sophomore year, the boys basketball team hazed. It wasn't cultural, just two individuals on the team were mean and vicious.

Mr. Pink
10-08-2014, 12:46 PM
I think you are painting with a very broad stroke.

Not really. Look around you. Every Sunday, millions and millions of people watch football. It's our most popular sport. And food is a major part of that experience. Do people tailgate at most other events? No. Walk through an NFL, or even major college football parking lot pre game. There's enough food there to feed a small African nation, and enough beer to sink a few ships. Most other fans are either at home, consuming lots of junk and drinks, or, at the local sports bar, eating deep fried poison. And a lot of this starts on Friday evening for many. One town I spend a lot of time in, Baltimore, becomes a two and a half day party with everyone wearing purple until Sunday evening. This all culminates in Super Bowl Sunday, which is now officially the biggest food consuming day on our calender, surpassing Thanksgiving. Yes, Thanksgiving, a holiday that seems to exist just for most to see how much they can eat before they burst, while rolling their eyes at Uncle Joe's political rants.

And all of this happens on a weekend, when most should at least be outside during one of the most comfortable times of the year, getting some fresh air and a little exercise, because they just spent the week sitting in a cube, and the evenings watching sitcoms. It's kinda sad. I even get a little paranoid if I do a bike ride a little later on Sunday, because I'll bet there's a ton of drunk drivers out there coming or going to bars or parties to gather around the game.

verticaldoug
10-08-2014, 12:51 PM
Not really. Look around you. Every Sunday, millions and millions of people watch football. It's our most popular sport. And food is a major part of that experience. Do people tailgate at most other events? No. Walk through an NFL, or even major college football parking lot pre game. There's enough food there to feed a small African nation, and enough beer to sink a few ships. Most other fans are either at home, consuming lots of junk and drinks, or, at the local sports bar, eating deep fried poison. And a lot of this starts on Friday evening for many. One town I spend a lot of time in, Baltimore, becomes a two and a half day party with everyone wearing purple until Sunday evening. This all culminates in Super Bowl Sunday, which is now officially the biggest food consuming day on our calender, surpassing Thanksgiving. Yes, Thanksgiving, a holiday that seems to exist just for most to see how much they can eat before they burst, while rolling their eyes at Uncle Joe's political rants.

And all of this happens on a weekend, when most should at least be outside during one of the most comfortable times of the year, getting some fresh air and a little exercise, because they just spent the week sitting in a cube, and the evenings watching sitcoms. It's kinda sad. I even get a little paranoid if I do a bike ride a little later on Sunday, because I'll bet there's a ton of drunk drivers out there coming or going to bars or parties to gather around the game.


Don't you know Roger Goodell is a robot placed here by aliens. When the aliens come to harvest, they like their meat well marbled. It's all part of a plan.

jds108
10-08-2014, 01:09 PM
I think there is a much simpler explanation. Some kids are just vicious. Football did not make them this way, they are just born mean. I'd guess there was always a little hazing going on with the program, but some of the older boys this time around were sick, vicious, and went too far. Why? Because they wanted to hurt people. It's that simple.

I played 3 sports. No hazing on the football, hockey or track teams in my old high school. But my sophomore year, the boys basketball team hazed. It wasn't cultural, just two individuals on the team were mean and vicious.

Agree 100%, and of course the adults need to make sure that the teen's environment doesn't allow/encourage/empower/whatever the bad teen's behavior.

oldpotatoe
10-08-2014, 01:19 PM
I think there is a much simpler explanation. Some kids are just vicious. Football did not make them this way, they are just born mean. I'd guess there was always a little hazing going on with the program, but some of the older boys this time around were sick, vicious, and went too far. Why? Because they wanted to hurt people. It's that simple.

I played 3 sports. No hazing on the football, hockey or track teams in my old high school. But my sophomore year, the boys basketball team hazed. It wasn't cultural, just two individuals on the team were mean and vicious.

Unless mentally ill, no kid is 'born mean'. Parents, guardians, lack there of, societal, environmental factors maybe but none are born that way.

Mark McM
10-08-2014, 01:22 PM
The game itself (the strategies, the athleticism, the teamwork) is awesome IMO.

Are we forgetting the concussions and other health dangers associated with the game? Even in the un-enlightened early 20th century it was considered so barbaric and dangerous it was almost outlawed.

The Romans had their gladiators. The Spanish have bull fighting. We have football.

vqdriver
10-08-2014, 01:23 PM
maybe i have a romanticized memory of sport, but as a player our coaches made character the paramount goal. sport was a means to that end. teamwork, hard work, fair play, perseverance, mental toughness, etc. if we ever let the coaches down, they let us know. if we ever let each other down, it was scorched earth type biblical wrath. stuff your parents can tell you about, but can't teach you. stuff you just have to experience as a group. i was too dumb to know it then. but now that i have my own children, i hold that education highest.

i love football. it's the greatest sport ever. and i'll venture to say that only people who've played the game early in life can really comprehend the impact it can have on you as a person. but i probably won't let my own kids play. those coaches are long gone.

malcolm
10-08-2014, 01:50 PM
Not really. Look around you. Every Sunday, millions and millions of people watch football. It's our most popular sport. And food is a major part of that experience. Do people tailgate at most other events? No. Walk through an NFL, or even major college football parking lot pre game. There's enough food there to feed a small African nation, and enough beer to sink a few ships. Most other fans are either at home, consuming lots of junk and drinks, or, at the local sports bar, eating deep fried poison. And a lot of this starts on Friday evening for many. One town I spend a lot of time in, Baltimore, becomes a two and a half day party with everyone wearing purple until Sunday evening. This all culminates in Super Bowl Sunday, which is now officially the biggest food consuming day on our calender, surpassing Thanksgiving. Yes, Thanksgiving, a holiday that seems to exist just for most to see how much they can eat before they burst, while rolling their eyes at Uncle Joe's political rants.

And all of this happens on a weekend, when most should at least be outside during one of the most comfortable times of the year, getting some fresh air and a little exercise, because they just spent the week sitting in a cube, and the evenings watching sitcoms. It's kinda sad. I even get a little paranoid if I do a bike ride a little later on Sunday, because I'll bet there's a ton of drunk drivers out there coming or going to bars or parties to gather around the game.

I suspect this is somewhat tongue in cheek, I hope. If you stopped football the nation's weight would not go down. People are fat because they make poor choices for many reasons. Football is just another reason to eat and drink too much.

Like most things there is nothing inherently wrong with football. It's what people have done to it and created around it. Well maybe there is a little inherently wrong with it as is with an high energy contact sport.

binxnyrwarrsoul
10-08-2014, 01:53 PM
Unless mentally ill, no kid is 'born mean'. Parents, guardians, lack there of, societal, environmental factors maybe but none are born that way.

This.

malcolm
10-08-2014, 01:54 PM
maybe i have a romanticized memory of sport, but as a player our coaches made character the paramount goal. sport was a means to that end. teamwork, hard work, fair play, perseverance, mental toughness, etc. if we ever let the coaches down, they let us know. if we ever let each other down, it was scorched earth type biblical wrath. stuff your parents can tell you about, but can't teach you. stuff you just have to experience as a group. i was too dumb to know it then. but now that i have my own children, i hold that education highest.

i love football. it's the greatest sport ever. and i'll venture to say that only people who've played the game early in life can really comprehend the impact it can have on you as a person. but i probably won't let my own kids play. those coaches are long gone.

This.

I played from grade school through high school and it was about team and character building. We wore our jerseys on Friday but did not bully or torment anyone. Our coaches would not have tolerated it. Completely different environment from what I see today, but it's not because of the game itself.

marsh
10-08-2014, 02:01 PM
Are we forgetting the concussions and other health dangers associated with the game? Even in the un-enlightened early 20th century it was considered so barbaric and dangerous it was almost outlawed.

The Romans had their gladiators. The Spanish have bull fighting. We have football.

The head trauma dangers have really come to light only in the past few years. No one knew what CTE was when I was playing. Early 20th century football was barbaric! No head/face protection, no personal fouls. A person was considered tackled only when they were no longer moving. Changes had to be made, or it was going to go away. Now, there definitely has to be some changes, or the game will go away.

malcolm
10-08-2014, 02:09 PM
The head trauma dangers have really come to light only in the past few years. No one knew what CTE was when I was playing. Early 20th century football was barbaric! No head/face protection, no personal fouls. A person was considered tackled only when they were no longer moving. Changes had to be made, or it was going to go away. Now, there definitely has to be some changes, or the game will go away.

The athletes have changed. They are much faster and stronger. Equipment lags far behind.

I think soccer will eventually supplant football. It will be years but we are reaching a point where the kids that played soccer are having kids and their kids are playing soccer. Once you are several generations in I think you'll start to see the change. Hope so anyway.

fiamme red
10-08-2014, 02:14 PM
The athletes have changed. They are much faster and stronger. Equipment lags far behind.More importantly, high school football players are much heavier today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/sports/30obesity.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

David Kirk
10-08-2014, 02:18 PM
IMHO football's days are numbered. It won't die this year, or next, or even 5 years down the road but it will become a mere shadow of it's current self in time.

Again - IMHO - I think that most parents of pop-warner kids have a tough choice to make.......let their young kids play or not. I think we are going to see very many of them make the choice I know I would make if my kid wanted to play - I'd have to say 'no'.

This in time will ripple up through the ranks and there will be fewer kids playing at a young age, then fewer young men playing high school football and then even fewer playing college ball. And colleges will not want to be seen as the place that allows young men to hurt themselves and change their lives forever. This will all in turn mean that the NFL will have fewer people ready to play at that level and fewer people to watch.

Cut off the supply of players and the game will in time shrink in a big way or even die in the long term.

dave

malcolm
10-08-2014, 02:19 PM
More importantly, high school football players are much heavier today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/sports/30obesity.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I meant to include weight. Pro and college too I bet particularly if you look at lean body mass. Look at some of the DBs, they used to be rail thin now they have 18 in arms and are ripped to shreds. Not to mention running backs at 230 +

earlfoss
10-08-2014, 02:19 PM
Big fat mean brain damaged teens. Great. Living in Wisconsin, football is really loved and the players get a pass for just about any low-life b.s. stuff they do.

Also, the vast majority of the fans that I see are fat. I mean, F A T. I wonder if they pack on the lbs just in case the coach points to the stands and says, "YOU! You, the fat, drunk guy in seat A-15... Strap on a helmet, we need you!"

jr59
10-08-2014, 02:22 PM
I would say that there is a difference between hazing and being a bully.

I played 4 sports in HS and basketball at the college level. Many sports before HS.

As long as I can remember, there was some type of hazing. It was a rite of passage. More of a team building thing, rather than just being mean. I've also been a coach at a high level of sports, and I have seen it there as well. Seems to me that this is a case of kids not knowing where the line is/was. Just a simple case of a few kids with not enough smarts to understand the difference between the two.

I also think that MOST cyclist don't have an understanding of team building in physical contact sports. Granted that is just my opinion.

vqdriver
10-08-2014, 02:31 PM
well, my personal experience with football (posted above) aside, good for Sayreville High School. someone, at least one person, in a position of authority has some perspective. the parents should be praising them, not bemoaning the loss of a season.

verticaldoug
10-08-2014, 03:20 PM
IMHO football's days are numbered. It won't die this year, or next, or even 5 years down the road but it will become a mere shadow of it's current self in time.

Again - IMHO - I think that most parents of pop-warner kids have a tough choice to make.......let their young kids play or not. I think we are going to see very many of them make the choice I know I would make if my kid wanted to play - I'd have to say 'no'.

This in time will ripple up through the ranks and there will be fewer kids playing at a young age, then fewer young men playing high school football and then even fewer playing college ball. And colleges will not want to be seen as the place that allows young men to hurt themselves and change their lives forever. This will all in turn mean that the NFL will have fewer people ready to play at that level and fewer people to watch.

Cut off the supply of players and the game will in time shrink in a big way or even die in the long term.

dave

I don't think so. The reality is the BCS is defacto farm league now for the NFL. The last bench warmer on a BCS D1 program was most likely an absolute star on his high school football team. The mistake is thinking you need numbers in pop warner to find the stars. Pop Warner is for the little guys that have no chance later on in high school to play. That is what I see at the pop warner field. The monsters that can play will always show up.

And physically they are monsters. Go look at the numbers these guys post on the NFL combine. mind boggling...

It's like the guy at the back of the pro peloton. Maybe he can just hang on with the pros, but if he rides with the rest of us, he makes us look like we are pedaling squares.

zennmotion
10-08-2014, 04:12 PM
The athletes have changed. They are much faster and stronger. Equipment lags far behind.

I think soccer will eventually supplant football. It will be years but we are reaching a point where the kids that played soccer are having kids and their kids are playing soccer. Once you are several generations in I think you'll start to see the change. Hope so anyway.

I played on the first HS soccer team my small rural upstate NY school ever had. We had to raise our own money to buy 15 jerseys (for 20 players, we switched shirts with subs during games) and 5 balls, parents carpooled the players to away games. Meanwhile football was comparatively huge, with a new lighted field, lots of equipment, practice uniforms etc. Now 30+ years later my old school, still the same size, just ended the football program due to lack of sufficient interest to field a team and justify the expense. Now, soccer rules with A and B squads for both the boys and girls, new field and lights, full uniforms (jerseys, shorts and socks!) for everyone and more than 5 balls. Karma baby!

David Kirk
10-08-2014, 05:01 PM
I don't think so. The reality is the BCS is defacto farm league now for the NFL. The last bench warmer on a BCS D1 program was most likely an absolute star on his high school football team. The mistake is thinking you need numbers in pop warner to find the stars. Pop Warner is for the little guys that have no chance later on in high school to play. That is what I see at the pop warner field. The monsters that can play will always show up.

And physically they are monsters. Go look at the numbers these guys post on the NFL combine. mind boggling...

It's like the guy at the back of the pro peloton. Maybe he can just hang on with the pros, but if he rides with the rest of us, he makes us look like we are pedaling squares.

I hear you - I'm thinking the lack of young ones coming up through the ranks is only 1/2 of the problem. The other half is the fact that so many parents and kids will not be sitting to watch a pro game that they have lost respect for. To me it's like boxing.........remember boxing?

dave