OT: Another Car thread...1st Car for Teenage Drivers?

[mgm777]

I have two teenage kids, a daughter and son, who will be new drivers in the next year. Because of family transportation demands and logistics, my wife and I have been thinking about a third family vehicle, primarily for the kids to use. Our criteria for this vehicle are; used, safe, reliable, easy to drive/maneuver. We live in the Boulder, CO area, so winter driving is a consideration. Finally, because they seem so plentiful in this area, Subaru is a brand on the top of our list...Outback, Forrester, or Crosstrek. Budget is around $6Kish. Open to other suggestions. Advice from those who have bravely gone there before us? If we go with a Subaru, are there any specific years to avoid? I have heard rumors about head gasket issues with certain years, but am personally not familiar. Thanks in advance.

[AngryScientist]

if gas mileage is not a huge concern i can recommend an older jeep cherokee or grand cherokee with the inline-6 engine. these drivetrains are pretty bulletproof and the cars are pretty safe and reliable. best is that parts are hugely available and cheap for these things because they are american and thousands and thousands of them on the road.

teen drivers WILL hit stuff, have minor accidents, etc. jeep bumpers can be had in any junk yard in america by the dozens, and a rebuilt starter costs about 30 bucks and can be changed in your driveway in 10 minutes with simple hand tools. they're heavy vehicles that are excellent in the snow.

[witcombusa]

I guess the age old tradition of them getting a car when they can buy,fuel and insure one is not on the table? I am always amazed when driving by High Schools these days. Is it really now an expectation that parents buy their kids cars? Think of all the POS cars that used to be in the lot because it was that or walk/bus.

And Boulder area has the RTD which is a huge advantage over many areas.

Are the kids skier/boarders? If not a fwd w/snows is going to be cheaper and get better mpg. The front range is not that bad IF you won't be heading up into the canyons. First choice here is older Honda for sure.

Subie is fine but with the age and mileage likely on a 6k example costs can mount up plus low 20's is all you'll see for milage.

[p nut]

I agree with witcomb--Honda Civic or Accord would be on top of my list. Snow tires for the winter and you're set. Throw a set of snow cables in the back in case they get caught in a blizzard.

[biker72]

Reliability
4 wheel drive
Decent gas mileage.

Go with the Subaru.

[mgm777]

Good suggestions...

AngryScientist: Getting a used Jeep is a good is on my radar...as a father, I like the idea of a bigger vehicle for safety concerns. Heard a ER doc during a TED talk, say based on his experience, to keep new drivers out of the ER, let them drive big, ugly, slow, SUVs....from a safety perspective.

WitcombUSA: I hear you regarding giving the kids too much too soon. Both my wife and I came from large families and neither of us had our own cars until we purchased them ourselves, after we were out of college and gainfully employed. We are wrestling with the dedicated kid-car thing. However, we both work and both kids are on top competitive soccer teams. As a result, my wife and I are constantly driving to practices, games, etc. The kids are using RTD now to get to school some days, some practices after school and get home and that is working for the most part, but after a long day of school, practice, and the RTD bus ride home and two transfers, it gets pretty late. Re: FWD vs. AWD....I am completely fine with FWD and snows. As for going up to the mountains by themselves, I don't see that happening. If they're going to ski, they're going with their Dad...I'll drive. Lots to think about.

[pbarry]

Angry has some good points on the Jeep products. Any mechanic can work on them, no need to go to a specialist shop.

Another option, Honda Elements can be had for 6-8k in decent shape. Look for the AWD model.

[Mr Cabletwitch]

most reliable car I ever owned was a 98 honda accord I had that thing for 5 years and never spent a dime on it. It was slow and safe.

[verticaldoug]

For both teenage boys and girls in the northeast, Jeeps seem to be the car of choice.

I'd wait until after your son and daughter get their license. It is a lot of fun to go test driving cars with them . . .

[Mr Cabletwitch]

Another good option would be a wrangler, they are slow and actually pretty safe. Bullet proof as well. Plus you can say its a fun car for you and just let them drive it.

[p nut]

I know more than one kid who rolled his Jeep back in high school. Roll over is definitely a concern. There are also many other aspects of safety than being surrounded by as much metal as possible. Plus 10MPG on a high schooler's budget? I wouldn't go that route, personally.

[zmudshark]

1964 Buick 225.

[regularguy412]

Bought my daughter a 1999 Toyota Camry 4 cylinder. This was back in 2005 and it had 41,000 miles on it. Kinda like a 'new' old car. Just routine maintenance, and one starter replaced in 10 years. It had developed an oil leak that was getting a bit worse (this was after the last timing belt replacement). It also needed struts and new tires(again). Finally, the driver's window motor gave out. So instead of spending another $1500 on it. We traded for a Toyota Rav4 just about 6 weeks ago.

My .02-- Get something 'older', but reliable -- that gets good gas mileage and is not likely to get'em into a road race or driving off in a ravine trying to learn to use '4WD'. This will save insurance costs. Oh, and, that little car had 169,000 miles on it when we traded. Purchased for $8,000. Trade in value was $2500. Not bad for 10 yrs of driving.

Mike in AR:beer:

[alancw3]

this topic was recently covered on motor week on pbs. here is link for helpful info:


http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/iihs-issues-recommendations-on-used-vehicles-for-teens-after-research-finds-many-arent-driving-the-safest-ones

[Roger M]

1964 Buick 225.

You going to foot the gas bill on that, Ofg? By the way, that's Buick 'Electra' 225.

To the Original poster, Volvo 240(sedan or wagon). Safe and relatively inexpensive/easy to work on.

[merckx]

When my first child reached driving age, I bought him a tank. It was a Sherman. I had the cannon barrel removed so that it wouldn't snag on telephone poles and such. It was the first vehicle for each of my kids when they reached the age to drive. I was mostly at ease when they were on the road that they remained safe. Now that my kids have moved on, the Sherman sits on our front lawn. I may hang a For Sale sign on it when I get motivated to pass it along. My wife would sure like to see it go. If you are interested in purchasing it, let me know. I'll throw in the cannon for nothing.

[2wheelwill]

I worked for Ford corporate back when Explorers were rolling over. I learned way too much about the physics of SUV's and risk of rollover. I personally wouldn't put a teenager in an SUV without all the modern safety stuff that mitigates for the rollover risk. My vote for teens in CO would be a Subaru!


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[p nut]

this topic was recently covered on motor week on pbs. here is link for helpful info:

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/iihs-issues-recommendations-on-used-vehicles-for-teens-after-research-finds-many-arent-driving-the-safest-ones

Not sure I agree with some of the cars on that list:

Young drivers should stay away from high horsepower. Vehicles with more powerful engines can tempt them to test the limits.

Mercedes-Benz C-Class sedan 2009 and later
Audi A3 2008 and later
BMW 3-series sedan 2006 and later
Volvo S60 2007-09
Acura RL 2005 and later
Audi A6 sedan 2005 and later

[steelbikerider]

a standard transmission will make them pay more attention to driving and make it harder to text and drive

[bargainguy]

....By the way, that's Buick 'Electra' 225....

...or as we called it, deuce-and-a-quarter.

[bcroslin]

I wanted to buy my daughter a used Subaru Forester but she wasn't having it. Started looking at new Hyundai Sonatas and my mother-in-law gave her a used Mazda Tribute. Its the same as a Ford Escape. It's a great little SUV but I've had to replace the cat converters which wasn't cheap.

[texbike]

It's RWD, but a Volvo 240 is a cheap, reliable, safe alternative that's quickly becoming a cult classic with younger drivers. Your kids could be safe AND cool! :)

Texbike

[Tandem Rider]

Going through pretty much the same issue here. When I was of "the age" my dad put me in a pickup truck, 2wd, standard cab, small engine, manual. Smart guy. I realize now that with only 1 other passenger in there I did not get in as much trouble. 4 or more friends together can, and often will, come up with all sorts of bad ideas.

I'm going for an encore, TR Junior is driving my pickup for now. 2wd, standard cab, 6cyl, stick. It's now 10 years old with less than 40k on it. He doesn't like it, it isn't "fun", so he rides his bike often, which is a good thing.

[Ken Robb]

The safest car anyone can drive is the one he uses after he learns to really drive at a quality high performance driving school almost surely taught on a race track road course.

If that seems like too big a step (it isn't) I have instructed at a few Tire Rack Teen Driving Schools and they are a great start to hone one's skills and attitudes.

[jghall]

Jeep's may be inexpensive to maintain, but certainly not bulletproof in my book. Personally, would not put my teenager in a Wrangler either. While certainly a cool ride, and understanding it is the driver, too much risk for me.

Somewhat going thru the same thing. Ended up with a low mile Honda Civic. Accord would have worked for me too. As would have a few other cars. The AWD Honda Element is a good suggestion.

No experience with Subaru's. Sure a great car. Just not sure if competes with Honda for reliability though.

Good luck in the hunt.

[gomango]

I bought a decent condition Accord wagon last summer for an el cheapo price.

Tires were almost new and it has a fresh battery. No rust and decent stereo.

Our youngest is taking driver's training right now. We told him it's his so I don't have to drive his soccer team around all season. :)

FWIW For some reason he wants my old Ford 4x4 up at the cabin. It's got a deer catcher on the front end and no heater. Canoe and kayak racks welded into the bed and frame. Forestry service green with lots of grey primer for that custom effect. It's got 271,000 miles on it, so it could give up the ghost any day.

[p nut]

I bought a decent condition Accord wagon last summer for an el cheapo price.

Wish they would bring back the old Accord wagon. (not the POS Crosstour they've got now).

[gomango]

Wish they would bring back the old Accord wagon. (not the POS Crosstour they've got now).

Agreed.

We have had six Hondas over the last twenty five years.

They have all treated us well, but I am very impressed with this old wagon.

Certainly a lot of car for $1,200. Only has 107,000 miles and feels super solid at freeway speeds. Came with a Thule roof rack so I can throw my kayak on it quite easily.

[Ken Robb]

I bought a decent condition Accord wagon last summer for an el cheapo price.

Tires were almost new and it has a fresh battery. No rust and decent stereo.

Our youngest is taking driver's training right now. We told him it's his so I don't have to drive his soccer team around all season. :)

FWIW For some reason he wants my old Ford 4x4 up at the cabin. It's got a deer catcher on the front end and no heater. Canoe and kayak racks welded into the bed and frame. Forestry service green with lots of grey primer for that custom effect. It's got 271,000 miles on it, so it could give up the ghost any day.
No heater means passengers have to snuggle with the driver to keep warm.:banana:

[dogdriver]

Something that weighs a lot, has zero sex appeal, and a small engine. Sorry if someone else already said this...

[zmudshark]

You going to foot the gas bill on that, Ofg? By the way, that's Buick 'Electra' 225.

To the Original poster, Volvo 240(sedan or wagon). Safe and relatively inexpensive/easy to work on.
Deuce and a quarter, babe. No one in Detroit calls them 'Electra's'.:banana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2N_c4_ORNfY

[Roger M]

...or as we called it, deuce-and-a-quarter.

Deuce and a quarter, babe. No one in Detroit calls them 'Electra's'.:banana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2N_c4_ORNfY

Little late to the party, ofg(or zmudshark or whatever alias you got goin this week)

[slidey]

Brushing aside the responsibilities attached with being donated/buying a car, if you want a safe car please consider seriously steering clear of GM stuff. I had a Jeep myself (2006); the blasted thing felt more inclined to roll over than corner or go in a straight line. Absolutely worthless piece of junk that I was regretting living with, until one fine day it couldn't resist the urge any more and did roll over; had to be totaled. I was left without a scratch, but that's not the merit of the trash can - I was accelerating from 0 to approximately 10mph~15mph (cornering from a dead stop into a sweeping left hander incline). A vehicle with a lower CG would've just gone round it without any fuss, like its supposed to. A vehicle with a higher CG but with a wider wheelbase also would've been fine, but do we really need hummer's to drive around suburban towns now?!

Post-totaling, thanks to GEICO I had some money to buy another car and chose a Mazda 6. For someone who doesn't like driving too much anyway, and who really had taken a strong aversion to the chore in the Jeep; I rather enjoy driving the car now.

Just my heartfelt 2c, since I don't want your kids to have to find out about the fallibility of GM vehicles first-hand.

[p nut]

Just my heartfelt 2c, since I don't want your kids to have to find out about the fallibility of GM vehicles first-hand.

You mean Chrysler?

[cnighbor1]

1st Car for Teenage Drivers
1st electronic stabilization control is a must
My wife Jetta has it. and she is a great driver yet it has come on in certain conditions just driving down the road Prehaps ice
2nd A great collision rating
3rd Automatic

[cnighbor1]

Insurance Not Allstate
A fellow Architect got a call from Allstate and told him his auto insurance was to be cancelled at the end of the day. 1st notice he got. His son had been in a fender bender and that was it Allstate dropped him like a lead balloon
My friend spent the whole day at work getting a new insurance co. before he had to say his current policy had been cancelled which would have meant very hard to get covered after it being cancelled

[oldpotatoe]

I have two teenage kids, a daughter and son, who will be new drivers in the next year. Because of family transportation demands and logistics, my wife and I have been thinking about a third family vehicle, primarily for the kids to use. Our criteria for this vehicle are; used, safe, reliable, easy to drive/maneuver. We live in the Boulder, CO area, so winter driving is a consideration. Finally, because they seem so plentiful in this area, Subaru is a brand on the top of our list...Outback, Forrester, or Crosstrek. Budget is around $6Kish. Open to other suggestions. Advice from those who have bravely gone there before us? If we go with a Subaru, are there any specific years to avoid? I have heard rumors about head gasket issues with certain years, but am personally not familiar. Thanks in advance.

Get an Audi A4....kidding, related to other car thread.

Ha can't throw a ....teenager around w/o hitting a Subaru or Pios. Get one w/o a back seat, no VW vans either.

Do your kid a favor and teach them to drive a manual transmission.

[fourflys]

My oldest will be of driving age soon after we move this summer (actually she can get her learner's permit at 14 here in AK), and I'm looking at this as well...

We currently have an '04 Toyota Highlander and an '04 Accord V6 Coupe... I plan to buy something a bit more fun after we move so I think the plan is to let her drive the Highlander when she gets her license... the con is it has a lot of passenger space, but the pros are it's a slow 4 cal, FWD, crappy stereo, and really isn't that cool... ;) the Accord is pretty fast, great stereo, loaded out with leather, etc and looks pretty sweet...

I don't even want to think about my insurance... at least I have girls and not boys!

[gomango]

No heater means passengers have to snuggle with the driver to keep warm.:banana:

He's already chasing girls like there is no tomorrow.

My wife and I are quite concerned about him actually catching up with one. :eek:

[eippo1]

Something that weighs a lot, has zero sex appeal, and a small engine. Sorry if someone else already said this...


I think you just described me...

[ultraman6970]

I will give my kids the old minivan when is time to drive; why? the wont be able to destroy that thing, they wont be able to race with their friends in it, and the best thing... if a chick wants to ride with them in the car is because of them, not because of the car.

How many were driving chicks in their cars just because of the wheels?? :P

[witcombusa]

I will give my kids the old minivan when is time to drive; why? the wont be able to destroy that thing, they wont be able to race with their friends in it, and the best thing... if a chick wants to ride with them in the car is because of them, not because of the car.

How many were driving chicks in their cars just because of the wheels?? :P

And how many were having sex in vans? :banana:

[Daveyk]

I was in the same situation last year and was searching for a Subaru for my son. I stumbled across an eight year old Mercedes 350 4matic and bought that instead. It costs a bit more to maintain, but has given me no trouble. I also figured it would be safer in an accident. He is off to college now and it has become my daily driver. Very comfortable.

[texbike]

He's already chasing girls like there is no tomorrow.

My wife and I are quite concerned about him actually catching up with one. :eek:

The law of averages - it's the only thing that ever worked for me.. ;)

Texbike

[Jaq]

Little late to the party, ofg(or zmudshark or whatever alias you got goin this week)

Drove a '69 225 for 5-6 years back in the '80s. Wasn't actually too bad on gas, especially if you used cruise control. But that 440 could get up and go; the smokey burn-outs that thing could do are probably an environmental hate-crime today. Sure do miss bench seats, too.

[slidey]

You mean Chrysler?

You're right, I did mean Chrysler...but I don't think I'm too far off the mark including GM in the ·····ty a** death chamber cabal either.

[ultraman6970]

I didnnt want to go there, but that was the next logical reason :P

And how many were having sex in vans? :banana:

[gemship]

You're right, I did mean Chrysler...but I don't think I'm too far off the mark including GM in the ·····ty a** death chamber cabal either.

I read your previous post and I have to say you sound suspect. Can't help but think a bit of driver error was involved in your roll over.

As an owner of a used GMC truck as well as a Chevy truck they are not perfect but treated with respect and being somewhat realistic they are affordable and mostly reliable work trucks given my experience.

All the auto manufacturers make lemons.

Also I have a friend that owned a late 80's chevy astro with the v6 and a jeep cherokee with the v8 same vintage. Both vehicles had their quirks with faulty check engine lights but they also shattered 200k miles with minimal investment. Great vehicles for cheap skates

[ceolwulf]

That IIHS page is depressing.

"What is the best car to preserve the life of someone who has absolutely zero intention of actually learning to drive properly?"

Stability control is required? Really? How did we ever manage in the hundred years before it was invented?

I went through several Manitoba winters in an '85 RX-7. Never once came close to endangering myself or anyone else (somehow this endangering anyone else business is always ignored. WHY would you give a teenager some of the massive vehicles on that list? How are they expected to control something where the corners are so far away you can barely see them? And then they say "not too much power" but a lot of the vehicles on their list are near or over 300hp and wicked fast.). Got stuck a couple times but nothing a shovel and bit of pushing couldn't sort. (Good luck pushing your 4500lb "mid-size" SUV.) And yeah it had anti-lock brakes, traction control, stability control, the works. All biological. Worked perfectly.

Want to keep a teenager safe on the road, take them to a snow-covered parking lot. Learn to slide the car properly, recover properly, teach them what the limits of braking, acceleration, cornering are, by actually going to and over those limits.

I don't know that I'd really even recommend AWD. AWD doesn't help a bit when braking, but it sure gives you a lot of confidence when accelerating. Not necessarily the best combo for an inexperienced driver.

[regularguy412]

I think you just described me...

POTD!

Mike in AR:beer:

[witcombusa]

That IIHS page is depressing.

"What is the best car to preserve the life of someone who has absolutely zero intention of actually learning to drive properly?"

Stability control is required? Really? How did we ever manage in the hundred years before it was invented?

I went through several Manitoba winters in an '85 RX-7. Never once came close to endangering myself or anyone else (somehow this endangering anyone else business is always ignored. WHY would you give a teenager some of the massive vehicles on that list? How are they expected to control something where the corners are so far away you can barely see them? And then they say "not too much power" but a lot of the vehicles on their list are near or over 300hp and wicked fast.). Got stuck a couple times but nothing a shovel and bit of pushing couldn't sort. (Good luck pushing your 4500lb "mid-size" SUV.) And yeah it had anti-lock brakes, traction control, stability control, the works. All biological. Worked perfectly.

Want to keep a teenager safe on the road, take them to a snow-covered parking lot. Learn to slide the car properly, recover properly, teach them what the limits of braking, acceleration, cornering are, by actually going to and over those limits.

I don't know that I'd really even recommend AWD. AWD doesn't help a bit when braking, but it sure gives you a lot of confidence when accelerating. Not necessarily the best combo for an inexperienced driver.


Sorry but a good set of four snow tires makes far more difference than all the electronic crap does.

Yes, playing in an empty lot is required training ( and good fun too)

[ceolwulf]

Sorry but a good set of four snow tires makes far more difference than all the electronic crap does.

Yep.

[Seramount]

all this talk of safety and practicality is somewhat depressing.

at age 16, my first car (bought with 5 years of lawn mowing money) was a 1964 Triumph TR-4. it was a total POS, but I had a blast driving it. I kept the parts that fell off of it in the trunk...

from there I went to a 1968 SS 396 Camaro...tire shredder, way fun.

while I rebuilt the motor and added a crapload of high-perf parts (cam, carb, headers, etc), I drove my mom's car, a '69 350 hp GTO.

somehow managed to survive these unsafe and impractical vehicles.

get the kids a mini-van, that'll endear them to you.

[jwalther]

Late 80s BMW 325iX. Meets all your criteria, and because its age, you'll save 80-90% on insurance costs.

[gemship]

all this talk of safety and practicality is somewhat depressing.

at age 16, my first car (bought with 5 years of lawn mowing money) was a 1964 Triumph TR-4. it was a total POS, but I had a blast driving it. I kept the parts that fell off of it in the trunk...

from there I went to a 1968 SS 396 Camaro...tire shredder, way fun.

while I rebuilt the motor and added a crapload of high-perf parts (cam, carb, headers, etc), I drove my mom's car, a '69 350 hp GTO.

somehow managed to survive these unsafe and impractical vehicles.

get the kids a mini-van, that'll endear them to you.



POTD but it took previous posts to finally get there:hello:


I double dog hear you my first car was a 84' CJ7 that was automatic, 31' super swampers and the steering wheel on the opposite side for rural letter delivery. I did roll it over but I was doing like 40 mph offroad and hit a tree stump, no seat belt and thrown clear from the jeep without a scratch....harrumph! The thing was a POS always stalling coming to stops.

A mini van for the kids? The kids would be darn lucky to get just about anything that moves on it's own. Here in Ma. it's not the cost of a vehicle that is a financial burden so much as it is insurance. I heard something like a couple grand a year just to add a kid to a parents policy. Don't know about that but I know it is really insanely expensive.

[verticaldoug]

I still think at 16/17 your children have their own opinions. Instead of asking a bunch of strangers on a forum, let your kids decide. They might surprise you by making a fairly rational choice. They might make a real boneheaded choice too, but at least it gives them a chance to learn and you a chance to teach.

[William]

Safety and decent gas mileage....used Volvo. Not crazy powerful, built like tanks, a decent set of amenities, and it will get from point A to point B no problem. Our son will be getting our S-70 when he's ready. A good set of Blizzaks for winter driving and they are good to go.

Beungood is a LEO and forum member who has seen a large percentage of accidents commented that Volvos always seem to fair the best in his experience.









William

[Formulasaab]

Saab.
Just as safe as Volvo in an accident.
Safer than Volvo on the road because they handle better on wet and slippery roads.
Cheaper because people are scared about servicing them now that the company is gone, but there is still a strong parts supply and distribution network so if you have a decent independent shop nearby, no problem.

[Little Bill]

Volvo. An old ugly wagon. I have one that just wont die. It is embarrassing to drive!

[djg]

Sorry but a good set of four snow tires makes far more difference than all the electronic crap does.

Yes, playing in an empty lot is required training ( and good fun too)

The frozen parking lot was standard driver's ed material when I was in high school. I mean, easier to find in some places than others -- we were in upstate NY -- but there's no way to get the feeling for that sort of skid control without practice, and practice shouldn't be in traffic.

Snow tires are big help in snow, of course, and there's no substitute for either practice or judgment. I gather the SUVs are safe on one part of the safety equation -- if you are going to crash, or going to get hit, it can be very helpful if you're sitting in a vehicle with more mass than the other vehicle. Or stationary object. My car -- properly driven -- will out-handle any SUV on the road, and I've got excellent brakes -- but I'm not going to come out on top if a 2002 Grand Cherokee decides to hit me. I'm lower and lighter.

My kid is learning in our old Volvo. High safety ratings but it's mostly on us. We'll do what we can.

[Formulasaab]

These days, the idea of learning on your own in a snow covered or wet parking lot is so far out of date, it might as well be chariot driving school.

New drivers need instruction in a level much greater than that. Cars are heavier, faster, and far more capable of getting you much further in over your head. In addition, the roads are far more heavily occupied by an increasingly more distracted populous with stunningly less interest in the idea of "driving" versus getting from A to B with the least amount of inconvenience.

However, there are also more tools available to a new driver today than there was even 10 years ago. New driver "survival" schools have cropped up all around the country and contain excellent instruction that WILL save lives.

Most kids are going to listen to their parent's instructions only so far as it takes them to think "they've got it" and can now tune them out. But they won't do that at one of these schools. The instructors have seen it all, know their stuff, and have set lessons the students will learn to master.

What the kid drives is FAR less material than how they drive.

I grew up competing in autocross. Those skills, learned over years of testing, exceeding, and pushing the limits have saved me, my family, and likely others on the road a lot of grief over the years. Possibly even our lives in a few cases.

Teach them. Give them the skills. That is ACTIVE safety. The car itself is passive safety, at best.

I am a driving instructor for a couple of vintage racing schools and am well aware that not everyone has the same innate ability to handle a car. But there are always things we can teach. However, the environment MUST be controlled.

Doing it on your own in an uncontrolled environment isn't going to teach you anything except what it feels like to lose control when you had already intended to lose control in the first place. You may even teach yourself bad habits and learn things wrong.

[William]

Volvo. An old ugly wagon. I have one that just wont die. It is embarrassing to drive!

Don't forget "slow".;)

Formulasaab

I agree, add Saab to the list.








William

[VTCaraco]

Don't forget "slow".;)

Worked at a school around 15 years ago where a Dad wouldn't let his son get his 240 repaired. In the state that it was in, it would do just about 45 mph, but nothing more. It was slow enough that nobody would ride with him, slow enough that when he'd get to school he'd have a line of cars behind him and he'd simply drop his head and walk into school. When asked, he would explain that his dad gave him the car ~ which he thought was awesome, but wouldn't let him get it repaired ~ which he thought was NOT awesome.
I don't recall the details, but it was a fairly complicated repair that it needed, but the effective "governor" always struck me as a brilliant solution for dealing with young drivers.
With a 16 year-old of my own now, I wish I could get my hands on that vehicle :banana:

[josephr]

I am a driving instructor for a couple of vintage racing schools and am well aware that not everyone has the same innate ability to handle a car. But there are always things we can teach. However, the environment MUST be controlled.



Every time I hear someone with younger kids lamenting about parental tasks, a parent badge doesn't get awarded until they teach them to drive. I'm in the process of starting again with my second daughter. :eek:

Controlled environment is key! After spending a few months in the parking lots and driving around the neighborhood, I sent her to a driving basic handling class at a local school. Had her go again this past summer (she's been driving a few years now) and that's really helped too. Makes a difference when you can put cars through their paces on a closed course and have instruction coming from someone who isn't a parent.

[alessandro]

We have a 1991 Volvo 240 wagon that we keep precisely because our kids are 19 and 17: The car is old, slow, heavy, and paid for. Also, kids should learn to drive stick.

[sg8357]

Here you go, my suggested driving school.
Includes lots of Subaru driving.

http://www.tommimakinen.com/rallyschool.htm