Guerciotti SLX frame opinions...

[cash05458]

Hey all, I have a chance to pick up a local Guerciotti SLX frame in my size that is in very good shape for a decent price of 200 bucks...lugged...owner thinks circa 90 or so...no name on frame, just Guerciotti...anyone have any opinions on these frames and how they ride and compare to other high end frames from the time? Thanks!

[Keith A]

Here's Sheldon Brown's input on classic Guerciotti's...

Guerciotti[gwer-chee-OH-ty]
Some examples are great, but be cautious of the few that look like high school metal shop projects gone horribly awry. Many Guerciotti bicycles have the added appeal of wonderful pantographed components. The tale goes that the Guerciotti brothers entered the world of frame building with the guidance of Cino Cinelli. This makes plenty of sense - the frames bearing their name ride superbly! In the early 80's Ten Speed Drive Imports brought unpainted Guerciotti frames into the U.S and painted them with Dupont Imron. The idea was to have Italian frames with more desirable U.S paint. values of Guerciotti bicycles depend on condition, quality of construction, and interesting pantographed components. A full Super Record bike of top craftsmanship in guideline condition with all the pantographed goodies might be worth $1,000 or so. Because some examples exemplify the Italian racing bicycle paradigm, really choice examples could justifiably fetch a good bit more. Nuovo Record examples without the neat pantographing are probably worth $750 to $ 800.

[Nags&Ducs]

I've always been intrigued by Guerciotti. I was () close to buying a nice burgundy frame for $250 a few years back. I don't regret it too much that I didn't get it. But if it is great condition for $200, I'd jump on it.

[Peter P.]

A friend of mine preferred the ride of his Guerciotti over that of his Richard Sachs. They were both of a vintage similar to the one you're considering.

[zmudshark]

I had a Ten Speed Drive Gooch in SLX. Worst bike ever. A noodle.

I have friends that had earlier ones, and loved them.

[shovelhd]

We used to call them crotcharotti's. I has a custom SLX bike that had many reinforcements to stiffen it up. They can be noodley.

[zmudshark]

If it's an SLX frame, it's a TSD noodle.

I was about 160-165 lbs when I sold mine, and not a young man. It sucked,compared to other late 1980's Italian frames. Lower second tier.

[cash05458]

great...thanks for the advice everyone...looks like maybe I will pass on it...really don't want a noodely frame...it is an slx...so thanks!

[texbike]

I had a TSX-tubed Guerciotti by TSD Imports that I believe was made by Billato. It was a fantastic bike and as good as any steel bike that I've owned. It was stupidly heavy (22.5 lbs with 7400 series DA and 32 hole OP wheels) but rode wonderfully.

I rode it up and down a number of major climbs in France including Alpe d'Huez, the Galibier, Ventoux, la Madeleine, and a couple of others and never detected any hint of flex under my 160 lbs.

A friend of mine bought it and still has it. He loves it as well.

For $200, go for it! If it's a 55 or 56 I'll buy it. ;)

Texbike

[pbarry]

If the paint and chrome are good, go for it. The first $1,400 bike I'd ever seen was a Guerciotti with SR in 1988.

[cmg]

mine was great. It was labeled New SLX, had some ribs at the bottom bracket. Do it, sounds like a great price.

[Duende]

If it's an SLX frame, it's a TSD noodle.

I was about 160-165 lbs when I sold mine, and not a young man. It sucked,compared to other late 1980's Italian frames. Lower second tier.

Not disagreeing with you, but just to give some perspective. I sold my buddy an early 80's Columbus SL Guerciotti I had. All he ever owned was a nice Rivendale (touring geometry) and never had ridden a race bike much less an Italian steed. It quickly became his favorite bike ever.

But I sold it because it was nowhere near the ride as the old Ciocc I had. Go figure.

Anyway... for 200 bills I say buy it and if nothing else make a single speed commuter out of it. :)

[oldpotatoe]

Not disagreeing with you, but just to give some perspective. I sold my buddy an early 80's Columbus SL Guerciotti I had. All he ever owned was a nice Rivendale (touring geometry) and never had ridden a race bike much less an Italian steed. It quickly became his favorite bike ever.

But I sold it because it was nowhere near the ride as the old Ciocc I had. Go figure.

Anyway... for 200 bills I say buy it and if nothing else make a single speed commuter out of it. :)

What he said.

Like a lot of second tier stuff brought in, it could be great or.....not. For $200, I'd do what is suggested above.

[El Chaba]

To expand a bit on what has been said already....I don't know of another Italian marque that is more all over the board than Guerciotti. From mediocre to spectacular, there are examples. Having said that, any examples from the 1970's that I have seen are REALLY nice....The 1980's examples that happened to be made by Bilatto were nice as well (I am a big fan of Bilatto, no matter what the decals)...I say buy it....you can spend more than the asking price on a styrofam cooler...I mean helmet.....

[oldpotatoe]

to expand a bit on what has been said already....i don't know of another italian marque that is more all over the board than guerciotti. From mediocre to spectacular, there are examples. Having said that, any examples from the 1970's that i have seen are really nice....the 1980's examples that happened to be made by bilatto were nice as well (i am a big fan of bilatto, no matter what the decals)...i say buy it....you can spend more than the asking price on a styrofam yarmulke...i mean helmet.....

fify

[thirdgenbird]

$200? If it's not bent, rusted or dented how could you go wrong.

[redir]

I've got an 83 Guerciotti with NR and full panto I think it's SLX, would have to look. Anyway in all honesty it's the best riding bike that I own and that probably IS because it's noodley. Stiffness? Who the hell wants that? Stiffness is overated :p

By comparison I have a Moots, Cannondale, (2)Lemond, Paramount, and some custom frames and nothing beats the old Guerch for an all day ride... I'm serious too!

Having said that I would not want to race it in today's fields. I have actually just for giggles and it was fine I actually finished top 20 in a large field but she's old and friction DT shifting is just a bit lesser advantage on STI.

As for an nice vintage ride or a cookie century it's a fantastic bike.

[witcombusa]

My '82 SR is for me, the "Italian racing bike" of the period. It rides wonderfully and has all the characteristics you expect from the era. Classic Euro stage bike. NOT a flexible frame by any means and it is a 62cm bike.

[Duende]

What a beaut! Mine was the exactly the same but Black and 55cm. Sure was pretty.. that's for sure.

[Nags&Ducs]

What a beaut! Mine was the exactly the same but Black and 55cm. Sure was pretty.. that's for sure.

Don't you ride a smaller Peg and Colnago Master? Something like a 52 or 53? And your Gooch was a 55??? How did you manage that?

(If I'm mistaken on anything written above, my apologies.)

[Nags&Ducs]

mine was great. It was labeled New SLX, had some ribs at the bottom bracket. Do it, sounds like a great price.

That is a veeeeery nice looking Gooch!

Echoing what others have said, they run the gamut of quality. The only ones I outright dislike are the Alan-built aluminum ones. Lugged aluminum. Yuck.

[cash05458]

wow, well given all these opinions and you guys taking the time to write I think I should at least go down and look at the thing...actually, it was 200 for frame or 350 built up with shimano 600 (down tube shifters) and cxp rim /dura hubs for wheels...but I will go take a look...thanks for all the responses...J

[cash05458]

so....picked up that frame...it is in great shape...no inside rust ect...no dings...paint fairly good...here it is...should anyone have any ideas on it age wise or otherwise be great to hear...lugs look great on it...also, anyone know how to remove it's odd looking headset, never seen one before like that...Thanks!

https://plus.google.com/u/0/106007071599881120639/posts/SW5v1aJWHDE?pid=6066387346993334930&oid=106007071599881120639

[witcombusa]

so....picked up that frame...it is in great shape...no inside rust ect...no dings...paint fairly good...here it is...should anyone have any ideas on it age wise or otherwise be great to hear...lugs look great on it...also, anyone know how to remove it's odd looking headset, never seen one before like that...Thanks!

https://plus.google.com/u/0/106007071599881120639/posts/SW5v1aJWHDE?pid=6066387346993334930&oid=106007071599881120639

She does look nice. It's after the decal change over so I'll say mid to late 80's.

[abalone]

great...thanks for the advice everyone...looks like maybe I will pass on it...really don't want a noodely frame...it is an slx...so thanks!



Whoa there! Don't pass up on a Columbus SLX frame because some people think it's noodley. Some people, me included, think that stiffness (even lateral stiffness) is way overrated. For me, a too stiff bike rides awful like a board. I'd take a noodley frame any day over a too stiff frame. One of the most well known noodley frames of all time, the Vitus 979 skinny aluminum bike from the early 1980s is the most comfortable frame I've ever ridden. It is THe magic carpet ride and I have ridden some nice early Litespeed and Merlin Ti bikes that aren't even comparable. So, don't pass on a frame just because others say it's a noodle. Heck, you might find that you are into noodles? Haha!

And anyway, the Columbus SLX tube set wasn't even generally known as being a flex you tubeset. A lot of great frames have been made out of SLX. I Have ridden some Columbus SLX and Columbus TSX frames and I've never found them to be overly flexy like my old Vitus 979, which I adore. I don't have any experience with Guerciotti, but these frames have a great history of solid Italian craftmanship.

[zmudshark]

so....picked up that frame...it is in great shape...no inside rust ect...no dings...paint fairly good...here it is...should anyone have any ideas on it age wise or otherwise be great to hear...lugs look great on it...also, anyone know how to remove it's odd looking headset, never seen one before like that...Thanks!

https://plus.google.com/u/0/106007071599881120639/posts/SW5v1aJWHDE?pid=6066387346993334930&oid=106007071599881120639Earlier than mine was, and that's a good thing. If it's really SLX, it is probably a 1984-85 model. The SLX models I've seen all had chrome. Can you see the rifling at the bottom of the seat tube?

[Tandem Rider]

I think Witcomb is correct, especially if you can feel/see rifling in the BB area tubes. older decals, looks like a Bilatto made frame. A TenSpeedDrive decal on the chainstay would mean Imron paint and '88 or later. Solid Italian frame either way, usually ride pretty nice. Put some period Campy on it and it'll be a nice Sunday driver without a lot of cash outlay. Good find.

[cash05458]

yep, see that...it is cleaning up really nicely as well...hope I did well here...excited! Didn't really need it too much with 4 others in stable but thought it would be an interesting winter project to look forward to...campy for sure...the rifling is very subtle...about half the size or less of the bb insertion threading?

[cash05458]

ok...found a stamp on bb...it is an 89.

[zmudshark]

I would have guessed earlier, especially after looking at the catalogs:
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/

I thought they had gone to an IC rear brake bridge before then on all the models.

[cash05458]

not sure Shark...it def. has an 89 stamped next to the star cut out on the bottom of the bb tho...I would assume that it is the year...any idea what was going on with them in 89 via makers ect?

[zmudshark]

Are you sure it's 89 and not 59? Mine had the size stamped on the BB

[cash05458]

you know what? you are right...it says 58 and then faintly and L...funny as top is 57...so must be seat tube is 58...

[Nags&Ducs]

you know what? you are right...it says 58 and then faintly SL...funny as top is 57...so must be seat tube is 58...

How did it turn from a 89 into a 58?!?!? LOL!

Congrats on the pick up! She looks like a steal at 2 clams. My rec is to put alloy Campy 10 on her. Screw period correct! Blah! ;)

[cash05458]

yeah...apologies...no S there either ...it's a 58 then underneath a faint L...I am guessing for Large? no idea!

[Duende]

Don't you ride a smaller Peg and Colnago Master? Something like a 52 or 53? And your Gooch was a 55??? How did you manage that?

(If I'm mistaken on anything written above, my apologies.)

Nope. Got me confused with someone else. I ride a 56cm Waterford and a 58 Ciocc. Got a 57 paramount in the stable too. Short legs/Long torso... Go figure.

[zmudshark]

yeah...apologies...no S there either ...it's a 58 then underneath a faint L...I am guessing for Large? no idea!
Mine had a V next to the size, who knows? Check the classifieds, I just put up a really pretty silver Centaur group that would look great on that. You'd need a superior IT BB, though ;)

[witcombusa]

Mine had a V next to the size, who knows? Check the classifieds, I just put up a really pretty silver Centaur group that would look great on that. You'd need a superior IT BB, though ;)

Brifters? :eek:

Blasphemy I say...

[zmudshark]

Brifters? :eek:

Blasphemy I say...
Campagnolo is never blasphemous.

[cash05458]

BTW...anyone recogzine that headset and how to get it off? the top bolt screws off fine...but the odd star riveted sorta one below is stumping me...any ideas?

[witcombusa]

BTW...anyone recogzine that headset and how to get it off? the top bolt screws off fine...but the odd star riveted sorta one below is stumping me...any ideas?

I assume you will be tossing it once it's off? If so just put some tape on a pair of large channellock pliers and spin'r off.

[cash05458]

Great! thanks everyone for the advice and all!!!