Another zipp hub fail

[VirtualElvis]

This guy was spiked like a football right in front if my wheel
Hit a rough patch of pavement. Fork hit the ground. Broken collarbone
Helmet and couldn't remember it even happened concussion!
Second time I've seen it this year....part of the aluminum hub breaks/cracks falls off and the spokes are free.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/28/598baf9c7c5be55fe637c24f74b79bb3.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/28/c474e7cc9601adc2ed8218e479514071.jpg


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[holliscx]

Roll Tide, Roll

[ultraman6970]

At least you can tell the rims are reliable.

[jtakeda]

!!!!

Have you sent these pics to zipp? They really need to do something about this.

Hope the guy is okay.

[bikerboy337]

Roll Tide! Hope he's ok in the end. Would live to hear zipps response....


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[weaponsgrade]

Ouch, this just prompted me to check over my Zipp hubs. Was he running an older version off the hubs?

[VirtualElvis]

Not sure which ones. I know they were about 4 years old. My other friend had the same hubs in his silver 101's and the rear one failed there


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[TomP]

Wow, I hope he is Ok. If that is remotely an issue they've known, or heard about that can't be allowed.

[saab2000]

I wish I knew why companies that charge so much for wheels use garbage hubs. Zipp is not alone here.

Things like this don't happen to Campagnolo or Shimano or Mavic wheels.

[thirdgenbird]

Wow, I hope he is Ok. If that is remotely an issue they've known, or heard about that can't be allowed.

They have got to know. Pictures and stories of that hub failing are very easy to find.

[Louis]

Didn't Mavic have problems with the R-Sys spokes?

[saab2000]

Didn't Mavic have problems with the R-Sys spokes?

Yeah, there is that.....

I guess my point is that over the years it seems like Zipp issues continue. They've been out now for what, like 15 years? And we continue to hear about reliability issues.

It's just a company I can't really imagine buying from.

[pinoymamba]

wow scary... :eek:

i have that exact hub on my 101s...

[VirtualElvis]

My friend on the 101's was 230lbs. The guy this weekend was probably 185


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[Highpowernut]

Wow, I'm going to inspect my hubs, just because.

[pinoymamba]

what exactly am i looking for when i inspect the hubs?

[Louis]

That's gotta be a product liability suit waiting to happen.

Anyone know exactly what part's failing in the hub?

I'm guessing the initial failure is at one of the little triangular thingies holding a pair of spoke in place. One goes, resulting in a load transfer that the rest can't handle.

Edit: Caveat - I don't know if this is the design that failed in the OP's buddy's case.

Image below is from the Zipp web site.

http://zipp.com/_media/images/dynamicproducts/Rear-Hub-Spoke-Detail.jpg

[Miles]

I wish I knew why companies that charge so much for wheels use garbage hubs. Zipp is not alone here.

Things like this don't happen to Campagnolo or Shimano or Mavic wheels.

I agree. The other thing is if you price out what it is to get someone to build you a set of these with something say for example of DT Swiss 240 level hubs the price isn't very different than buying a set of the pre builts.

[thirdgenbird]

I'm wondering if the hub flange cracks and the resulting lack of tension allows the spokes to come unseated and fall out [/guess]

[Miles]

Didn't Mavic have problems with the R-Sys spokes?

If I recall correctly Mavic recalled them gave everyone sets of aksium wheels then sent out new sets of r-sys wheels after the redesign.

[Louis]

I'm wondering if the hub flange cracks and the resulting lack of tension allows the spokes to come unseated and fall out [/guess]

What's weird (IMO) is that in the OP's pic every single one of the spokes is out of the hub. You'd think that at least a few would have managed to stay connected. Whatever happened somehow caused a massive waterfall event.

[ultraman6970]

The op needs to get a picture of the hub, so far looks like all the spokes snapped but you said that the hub failed.

Would be cool too see a picture of that fail. As i said before looks like you can trust those rims big time, but the hubssss.....

[thirdgenbird]

What's weird (IMO) is that in the OP's pic every single one of the spokes is out of the hub. You'd think that at least a few would have managed to stay connected. Whatever happened somehow caused a massive waterfall event.

I thought that was odd too. Maybe we will get more pictures.

The op needs to get a picture of the hub, so far looks like all the spokes snapped but you said that the hub failed.

All the spoke nail heads look in tact

[ultraman6970]

Looks like you are right, all the heads are intact?, that makes no sense at all. Never ever seen something like that... i'm really puzzled on this one.

I have wheels with straight pull spokes and pretty much there is no way the spokes will slide off the hub unless the spoke heads failed and that's way to hard to imagine. Or that the spoke flange failed, less failed in all the spokes, I have seen 1 or 2 spokes holes flanges snapped but the whole thing?? never.

In this case I can imagine that one flange cracked all the way around and caused the separation of one side of the spokes but both sides??? both flanges bad??? that's the weirdest thing ever.

[pinoymamba]

my buddy managed to pull a spoke out of the rim on his 101s.

i have over 8k miles on my 101s and i bought them used. i've crashed on them a few times and even pulled a spoke. so far so good...

but now i'm freaked out because i've never seen this happen with these wheels...

[Highpowernut]

I've got a set of 101s with 2700 miles. My hubs are the newer black v-8 hubs. The op picture is the silver v-6 hubs.
Idk what the changes were between all the versions,

[cmg]

1st photo from a Zipp 101 rear hub. It broke on the high tension side. just google it there's lots of photos.

[oldpotatoe]

This guy was spiked like a football right in front if my wheel
Hit a rough patch of pavement. Fork hit the ground. Broken collarbone
Helmet and couldn't remember it even happened concussion!
Second time I've seen it this year....part of the aluminum hub breaks/cracks falls off and the spokes are free.[IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/28/598baf9c7c5be55fe637c24f74b79bb3.jpg[/IMG

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?? The spoke ends at the hub are still on the spokes. This is right up there with the mavic r-sys failure..get a lawyer..call zipp, of course..Dont get the 'love for zipp, they are really junque, starting at the hubs. of course owned by scram.

[oldpotatoe]

I wish I knew why companies that charge so much for wheels use garbage hubs. Zipp is not alone here.

Things like this don't happen to Campagnolo or Shimano or Mavic wheels.

ehhh?

[Admiral Ackbar]

was that JRA or crash damaged?|

[saab2000]

ehhh?

Yeah, I had forgotten about those.... But I think that was an outlier product. Most of their stuff has proven to be very reliable.

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah, I had forgotten about those.... But I think that was an outlier product. Most of their stuff has proven to be very reliable.

OpenPro clicks, ALL of their wheelset rear hubs, CD rims, MA-3, Reflex clinchers pulled out eyelets regularly. Not the failure of r-sys or zipp pictured but...

[ergott]

I wouldn't put Mavic in the same category as Shimano and Campagnolo.

That said, Shimano has their problems. Try finding a rim for a wheel that's a few years old. They don't support their product for very long so they become disposable. Campagnolo is a bit better, but not much. They continue to have sku#s for older rims/spokes, but they can be impossible to find in stock sometimes.

Smart money is to avoid wheels that change every model year.


I just trued a set of brand new Shamals and the nipple/rim interface was dry as a bone. That can't be good in the long run. In my opinion, they were not as well made as the old Nucleons I've seen a decade or more ago.

[sitzmark]

One totally unexplainable failure.
No bent spokes (or even twisted), no deformed nail heads, no sign of hub contact with rim or ground. It's like all of the spokes suddenly popped out instantaneously ... otherwise some would be bent as they were pulled around during the last degrees of rotation. How can a forward moving hub/fork not clip a spoke or nipple on the way down?

Maybe he was turning and the hub/fork shot outside the wheel's centerline, but again, no sign of spoke deformation as the rim flopped over. At what speed did this occur? Almost stopped, because there's no sign of rotational damage?

The right snap ring appears to be off, but the left is not. The spoke heads will not fit through those spoke holes unless the spoke head is deformed or the hub casting cracks to allow the head enough space to slip trough. No signs of that. The photos of casting cracks (one not Zipp) are rears and completely different than the front hub design of this failure.

Would be interesting to know the determined failure mode if anyone figures this one out after actual forensic investigation.

[eippo1]

I wouldn't put Mavic in the same category as Shimano and Campagnolo.

That said, Shimano has their problems. Try finding a rim for a wheel that's a few years old. They don't support their product for very long so they become disposable. Campagnolo is a bit better, but not much. They continue to have sku#s for older rims/spokes, but they can be impossible to find in stock sometimes.

Smart money is to avoid wheels that change every model year.


I just trued a set of brand new Shamals and the nipple/rim interface was dry as a bone. That can't be good in the long run. In my opinion, they were not as well made as the old Nucleons I've seen a decade or more ago.

True about the Shimanos. I still have a Dura Ace 7801 rear wheel hanging up that has a perfect hub, but needs a new rim. Still can't get rid of it even though locating a rim is impossible.

[bobswire]

OpenPro clicks, ALL of their wheelset rear hubs, CD rims, MA-3, Reflex clinchers pulled out eyelets regularly. Not the failure of r-sys or zipp pictured but...

Pulling out of eyelets I put most of that down on the "builder", Open Pros are still my rim of choice paired with a set of Ultegra or DA hubs. Len of Bike Nook preferred them over most all others but then again he knew how to build them up. There is a reason they've been around for years and still going and not because of failure.

[oldpotatoe]

Pulling out of eyelets I put most of that down on the "builder", Open Pros are still my rim of choice paired with a set of Ultegra or DA hubs. Len of Bike Nook preferred them over most all others but then again he knew how to build them up. There is a reason they've been around for years and still going and not because of failure.

MA-3 and Reflex were 'famous' for this. Why they morphed so quickly to OpenPro and Open Sport. OpenPro don't 'fail' but the noisy wedge and clicking eyelets were something that mavic has known about for over a decade and still refuse to fix 'em. Had nothing to do with the builder. DT and now H+Son far better rims in all respects.

[bobswire]

MA-3 and Reflex were 'famous' for this. Why they morphed so quickly to OpenPro and Open Sport. OpenPro don't 'fail' but the noisy wedge and clicking eyelets were something that mavic has known about for over a decade and still refuse to fix 'em. Had nothing to do with the builder. DT and now H+Son far better rims in all respects.

That has yet to be determined on H+Son(time will tell), I was not overly impressed with H+Son nor the wider rim advantage. Sold the two sets I had then mounted the tires back onto Open Pros. The H + Plus Son TB14 just didn't feel as positive or agile ( for lack of a better word) for the kind of riding I do but then again that's subjective. I'm not talking as a builder just a rider/consumer. Oh and I always had a soft spot for MA3's (maybe because I did alot of my first real serious road riding on them)but much preferred the OP's.

[bocarider]

wow scary... :eek:

i have that exact hub on my 101s...

I busted no less than 3 hubs on my Zipp 101s. While Zipp gave me great warranty service and completely replaced the wheel through my LBS, I gave up on those wheels and switched to Shimano C35s.

I love the 101s - great wheels, but the hubs just sucked and killed any brand loyalty I had to Zipp.

c'est la vie.

[ultraman6970]

I have wheels with kinlin tubular rims and those have nothing to envy to any other expensive tubby rim, well... each rim is like 60 bucks a pop tho. Velocity rims in tubular or clincher did not work for me with low count spokes, light rims but weak, Have not managed to make a kinlin tb25 to creak or even feel weak in a set of 24/20 wheels and with my 200 pounds ass. But the same type of wheel in velocity just suffers big time even in a straight flat road.

Never seen a failure of a campy wheel, interesting picture.

[ergott]

1st photo from a Zipp 101 rear hub. It broke on the high tension side. just google it there's lots of photos.

Middle pic isn't a Zipp. That 1X pattern on the drive side (all heads in) puts a lot of stress on the flange.

[VirtualElvis]

One totally unexplainable failure.

No bent spokes (or even twisted), no deformed nail heads, no sign of hub contact with rim or ground. It's like all of the spokes suddenly popped out instantaneously ... otherwise some would be bent as they were pulled around during the last degrees of rotation. How can a forward moving hub/fork not clip a spoke or nipple on the way down?



Maybe he was turning and the hub/fork shot outside the wheel's centerline, but again, no sign of spoke deformation as the rim flopped over. At what speed did this occur? Almost stopped, because there's no sign of rotational damage?



The right snap ring appears to be off, but the left is not. The spoke heads will not fit through those spoke holes unless the spoke head is deformed or the hub casting cracks to allow the head enough space to slip trough. No signs of that. The photos of casting cracks (one not Zipp) are rears and completely different than the front hub design of this failure.



Would be interesting to know the determined failure mode if anyone figures this one out after actual forensic investigation.



The outer ring broke. About 1/3 of it cracked and fell off
Going straight. Wind at our backs. Probably between 24 and 30 mph
We hit a rough patch where they just filled potholes


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[Waldo]

Thanks for posting this, I hadn't heard. Time to shop for wheels before mine fail catasrophically. Good thing I like shopping for wheels.

[bshell]

I would think that going down at 24+ with an instantaneous loss of a front wheel/fork connection would be devastating.

And dude doesn't have a scratch on him. How is this possible? I mean, look at that asphalt.

From the picture it doesn't look like the hub flanges impacted the ground or the rim. The fork looks great. The skewer is unmarred. The spokes look perfectly straight...

WOW.

[bshell]

Not familiar with the construction of this hub but BOTH sides completely ejected ALL of the spokes even when the skewer-side flange cover is intact???


So weird.

[oldpotatoe]

I would think that going down at 24+ with an instantaneous loss of a front wheel/fork connection would be devastating.

And dude doesn't have a scratch on him. How is this possible? I mean, look at that asphalt.

From the picture it doesn't look like the hub flanges impacted the ground or the rim. The fork looks great. The skewer is unmarred. The spokes look perfectly straight...

WOW.

Tee hee....the pix do look a little sanitary but never pass up a chance to slam a scram product, I don't.

[Mark McM]

From the picture it doesn't look like the hub flanges impacted the ground or the rim. The fork looks great. The skewer is unmarred. The spokes look perfectly straight...

The hub probably wouldn't have hit the ground. If the spokes suddenly detached from the hub, the first contact would be between the top of the tire and fork crown, causing an immediate endo.

However, I agree with the other comments, that photo of the riders shows nary a scratch on any of them (and some are smiling), and the left flange appears to be completely intact (nor is there any other apparent damage to the portion of the bike that is visible). Me thinks there is more to the story than has been presented so far ...

[beeatnik]

The hub probably wouldn't have hit the ground. If the spokes suddenly detached from the hub, the first contact would be between the top of the tire and fork crown, causing an immediate endo.

However, I agree with the other comments, that photo of the riders shows nary a scratch on any of them (and some are smiling), and the left flange appears to be completely intact (nor is there any other apparent damage to the portion of the bike that is visible). Me thinks there is more to the story than has been presented so far ...

The guy with the blue/yellow jersey looks like a Warlock.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/28/c474e7cc9601adc2ed8218e479514071.jpg

[Waldo]

This guy was spiked like a football right in front if my wheel
Hit a rough patch of pavement. Fork hit the ground. Broken collarbone
Helmet and couldn't remember it even happened concussion!
Second time I've seen it this year....part of the aluminum hub breaks/cracks falls off and the spokes are free.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/28/598baf9c7c5be55fe637c24f74b79bb3.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/28/c474e7cc9601adc2ed8218e479514071.jpg


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Hub failure aside -- and channeling Joan Rivers -- who the hell wears shoe covers and short sleeves on a casual ride like this?

[Waldo]

The guy in Alabama jersey seems to be holding his nuts, which may provide a clue as to how he crashed after the hub failed....

[ergott]

The guy in Alabama jersey seems to be holding his nuts, which may provide a clue as to how he crashed after the hub failed....

No that's cracked collerbone stance/sit taking weight off shoulder. I know it well.

[Black Dog]

Why are folks making fun of those involved in this crash? Just curious?

[MattTuck]

ouch, hope he's ok.

I'm not really fast enough to care much about aero, so I'm glad I'm not tempted by the zipp stuff.

[RedRider]

Am I missing something? Other than broken spokes I don't see impact damage. If the spokes imploded then the fork would have come crashing down on the rim. The hub, rim and probably the fork would have all been cracked or destroyed. I'm only looking at a few photos but it's tough to figure it out. I sympathize and wish a speedy recovery to the rider.

[Louis]

Why are folks making fun of those involved in this crash? Just curious?

The guys themselves are laughing it up. (except for the one who was injured)

[thirdgenbird]

Am I missing something? Other than broken spokes I don't see impact damage. If the spokes imploded then the fork would have come crashing down on the rim. The hub, rim and probably the fork would have all been cracked or destroyed. I'm only looking at a few photos but it's tough to figure it out. I sympathize and wish a speedy recovery to the rider.

The tire would likely hit the fork crown first. This would cause the wheel to slow/stop causing the rider to go over the bars. Very possible the rider landed on his head, back, or sholder and the bike landed on him.

[sitzmark]

Am I missing something? Other than broken spokes I don't see impact damage. If the spokes imploded then the fork would have come crashing down on the rim. The hub, rim and probably the fork would have all been cracked or destroyed. I'm only looking at a few photos but it's tough to figure it out. I sympathize and wish a speedy recovery to the rider.

There aren't any broken, deformed, or damaged spokes, which is one thing that makes this so unexplainable.

The snap ring does not hold the spokes in place. The spoke heads are slotted in and locked in place with tension. To jump out of the slot (at least if the flange has not been compromised) all of the spokes on that given flange would have to have 3-4mm (or more) of vertical play, then simultaneously pop horizontally away from the flange. The snap ring could not be in place.

Think how spokes work ... opposing forces. If both hub flanges are not broken, the physics are inexplicable. The statistical odds of witnessing such a freak occurrence 2x .... amazing.

[unterhausen]

Am I missing something? Other than broken spokes I don't see impact damage.
the fact that was a very strong rim involved means that the failure was totally different from what you would expect from a similar failure with an aluminum rim.

And also, I blame the white shorts

[oldguy00]

Looks like the two guys standing have their race radio headphones in place, in case a break goes up the road... ;)
Seriously though, hope your buddy is OK.
But agree, kinda odd that he doesn't seem to have a scratch on him, and the spokes magically all came out undamaged from the side that still has the cap on it??

[ultraman6970]

Exactly my thoughts, so freaking weird, the spokes got off the flange and not one side but both, Honestly never seen a straight pull hub wheel to spit a single spoke off the hub ever, and looks like from what I read here zipp wheels do that kind'a often, even more... in this case happened with all spokes, just incredible.

Probably the zipp people won't believe it either.

If you check the miche straight pull hubs I have there is no way in hell they will spit a spoke off at the head ever, probably the hub will crack before letting a spoke let go from the head. Once the spoke is in position won't go nowhere in a matter of fact you can lace the whole wheel w/o the rim, and the spokes wont play more than 1 mm to the sides. Surprise me from zipp, darn wheels are super expensive.

Hope the dude is doing ok.

Think how spokes work ... opposing forces. If both hub flanges are not broken, the physics are inexplicable. The statistical odds of witnessing such a freak occurrence 2x .... amazing.

[BumbleBeeDave]

In that picture the spokes appear to not be locked into the hub in any way. Looks jiggy as hell, but I see your reasoning. Yes, it would be darn hard to get any one of them to come out in regular use. If you hit a bump that would displace the spokes by 3-4 mm of play needed for one or more to come out, you'd think the rim would break first under that much stress.

I've got a pair of 303's with these exact same hubs. ZIPP already did a warranty replace of the rims and upgraded me to Firecrest rims. The spokes were apparently over-tensioned and over 2 years of use the nipples were pulling through the carbon.

BBD

There aren't any broken, deformed, or damaged spokes, which is one thing that makes this so unexplainable.

The snap ring does not hold the spokes in place. The spoke heads are slotted in and locked in place with tension. To jump out of the slot (at least if the flange has not been compromised) all of the spokes on that given flange would have to have 3-4mm (or more) of vertical play, then simultaneously pop horizontally away from the flange. The snap ring could not be in place.

Think how spokes work ... opposing forces. If both hub flanges are not broken, the physics are inexplicable. The statistical odds of witnessing such a freak occurrence 2x .... amazing.

[oldpotatoe]

Any other pix?

[charliedid]

Why is everyone laughing?

[ergott]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/28/598baf9c7c5be55fe637c24f74b79bb3.jpg

If you look carefully at this pic, the cap on one side is clearly out of place. It's very possible that any flange crack could be out of sight.

Also, the cap on the high side is out of not snapped in either.

Assuming no hoax (would be a $h1tty one) I suspect that flange broke (where we can't see), several spokes came out of flange causing fork to drop onto top of wheel, rider propelled off bike, and rest of spokes coming out of flanges easily one there is no tension in the system. I've worked with those hubs. Once there is no tension, all the spokes come out.

Those straight pull spokes make assembling a wheel 10X faster than a traditional wheel. That why they are used, not for performance gain regardless of the marketing.

[sitzmark]

Those straight pull spokes make assembling a wheel 10X faster than a traditional wheel. That why they are used, not for performance gain regardless of the marketing.

If both flanges are broken in a way that allows for an instantaneous drop to fork crown (i.e. rotational stop) - agree, possibility. Still hard to imagine zero spoke damage. The energy from whatever spoke tension relief resulted in the lower half of the wheel was transferred to the upper half via the rim. If enough of both flanges peeled off the top side, then the frame could have dropped instantly and the bottom spokes popped the caps as they slid up through the slots and jammed into the axle. No bending/damage, though?

With the 88/188 series hub/caps assembly is much faster. The precursor 82/182 series required threading and there was no way for the straight pulls to "pop out". The "slot and cap" approach is now used by many manufacturers for radial laced hubs - including Mavic in the CC series, Fulcrum in the Racing Series, etc.

[bobswire]

Do those wheels have a weight limit? The guy looks pretty solid, I could see one side of the flange giving away after hitting a deep pot hole then the opposite being bulged inward with that flange letting the spokes pull all the out at the same time. What is surprising to me looks like little if any damage to the rim itself.

[sitzmark]

Do those wheels have a weight limit? The guy looks pretty solid, I could see one side of the flange giving away after hitting a deep pot hole then the opposite being bulged inward with that flange letting the spokes pull all the out at the same time. What is surprising to me looks like little if any damage to the rim itself.

I have a couple of sets of those rims - 82/182 hubs though. Have taken a number of poundings on one set from potted, rutted, chip seal roads. Worst thing that's happened is a very tiny dimple in the top edge of the brake track (rear) from a pinch flat hit earlier this year. I'm now hanging around 185 - started ridding them when I was 225. Always inspect frame/wheels before and after every ride and pull hubs apart for cleaning routinely. Easily 9k+ miles on oldest set.

IIRC I was at or near the upper published WL when I started riding 404s.

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=ergott

Those straight pull spokes make assembling a wheel 10X faster than a traditional wheel. That why they are used, not for performance gain regardless of the marketing.[/QUOTE]

Hey, hey, HEY...no fair throwing reality in this discussion!!

Straight pull AND radial...to.... Save.....Time=$

[ergott]

http://zipp.com/_media/images/dynamicproducts/Rear-Hub-Spoke-Detail.jpg

This is the crossed side of their current hubs. Same thing. You insert the spokes with nipple and washer through the outside of the rim in. Then you just put the spokes in place, snap the endcap or ring in place, and finish the wheel.

[staggerwing]

Lower build time equals lower production costs. Plus, we can charge more by selling it as "new and improved." Talk about a "win-win," for the manufacturer.

[sitzmark]

This is the crossed side of their current hubs. Same thing. You insert the spokes with nipple and washer through the outside of the rim in. Then you just put the spokes in place, snap the endcap or ring in place, and finish the wheel.

Louis' picture is actually the most recently retired version. New version (attached) applies same insertion principle (slightly different bracing) to both sides of hub to do away with radial lacing in the rear wheel. In a move counter to the industry, Zipp has increased the rear spoke count from 20 to 24. My latest Fulcrum and Mavic rear wheels are built around a slot-cross/slot-radial, 21- and 20-count hub similar to Zipp's past version. Both of Zipp's moves are positive in IMO ... but taking a "matrix" clincher option out of the line up and going wide with brake tracks doesn't fit with my objectives.

The snap-in (straight pull) design allows spokes to be pushed as far outboard as possible. Good/Bad, functional/immaterial ?? Mavic and Fulcrum are using the design for same, as well as allowing wider aero blading. Again, any real functional value for average phreds?? Stronger spoke than j-bend? Less wear? That debate will probably go on forever....

[Willy]

WOA - before we throw Zipp wheels under the bus - shouldn't we get better information? Has anyone contacted Zipp to see what they say? If this is a real hub failure, shouldn't the hubs have a factory recall? A lot gets put on the Internet that tarnishes reputations without real basis. I don't want to marginalized the biker's injury but from what I see in the only real picture we have of the wheel - none of the spokes are damage or deformed nor does the hub look damaged other than looking like it's off the fork on the down side. If this is real, it's a big deal and if it's not, let's kill the rumor.

[VirtualElvis]

I will find out what zipp says. And try and get some pics of the broken side


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[Louis]

If this is a real hub failure, shouldn't the hubs have a factory recall?

Not necessarily. Somebody has to be in the first group of failures that prompt the recall.

If this is real, it's a big deal and if it's not, let's kill the rumor.

Unless the OP is an outright liar or fraudster (I would guess not) I think this is real and not simply a rumor.

[Charles M]

It is certainly the most sanitary 30 MPH crash ever. There is no visible damage to the wheel parts or any of the riders.

That said, stranger things have happened.

It's a 2009 wheel, so it wouldn't likely be in warranty and SRAM have no problem recalling issues (I would guess there's enough precedent to think that by now) so if it were spread enough, I'm guessing it would have come out some time in the past 5 years. I think there have been 7-8 newer versions of that hub since then.

Hope the guy is OK. Hopefully he put the pristine wheel parts back together, climbed on and rode home. Not sure he even had to brush himself off.

[Louis]

What the F?

Does the OP have to post pictures of blood and brains spilled on the road and a body in the ditch for people to believe him?

[thirdgenbird]

It's a 2009 wheel, so it wouldn't likely be in warranty and SRAM have no problem recalling issues (I would guess there's enough precedent to think that by now) so if it were spread enough, I'm guessing it would have come out some time in the past 5 years. I think there have been 7-8 newer versions of that hub since then.

7 or 8 new versions since 2009?! That alone is enough for me to stay away.

[dgauthier]

Hope the guy is OK. Hopefully he put the pristine wheel parts back together, climbed on and rode home. Not sure he even had to brush himself off.

He had a broken collarbone according to post #1. Not much fun.

[zap]

7 or 8 new versions since 2009?! That alone is enough for me to stay away.

Version 58 should be well sorted.

[VirtualElvis]

Most of the impact was on his helmet. I'm not trying to hurt zipp. I have zipp wheels. But thankfully not that hub. But I have seen this happen twice. It's no joke...


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[jtolive]

Any word from Zipp yet?

[WSBA Jr.]

Yes, we are also waiting to hear word about these, since we have the tubular/carbon version of the vintage in question. I'm sure that a junior who is road and crit racing with 404's and having this failure would be of interest to Zipp (not to mention dad too!) Thanks for the info guys, holding my breath.

[VirtualElvis]

I will contact the guy who crashed this week. Let you know what I find out. I ride older zipp tubulars, different hub.... I train on them...not too worried..... I'll ask my other friend whose 101's failed, if he can tell me the hub model..


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[LegendRider]

Pretty sure most of you are missing the obvious culprit - Auburn. ;)

[SlowPokePete]

Definitely interested in further info from Zipp, as I have a 404 rear and 303 front from around 2008...

Scary as hell to think about going down like that.

SPP

[sitzmark]

Definitely interested in further info from Zipp, as I have a 404 rear and 303 front from around 2008...

Scary as hell to think about going down like that.

SPP

If yours are 2008, not the same hubs. All spokes cannot come free unless both hub flanges completely disintegrate 360 degrees both sides. Spokes are "captured" through spoke holes pre-2009 and not "slotted"

Doesn't mean they can't break a flange and cause a crash. Plenty of pics of other broken hub flanges (CK, DT, etc) none are immune to casting flaws/material contamination - rare but it happens.

Not likely for a quick answer from Zipp. Will need to verify authenticity of product, confirm proper maintenance, user damage/mileage/conditions, etc before ascribing any fault to the product. If failure rate was significant, CPSC would be all over it. So far they aren't and that structural hub design has been active since 2009. Enough time to prove out a design flaw vs lot related failure, vs "one-off" failure.

[RedRider]

From my experience Sram/Zipp have very good customer service. If you have a question about the durability, possible recall or an issue with one of their products give them a call. Better yet go to your LBS they have a dealer tech support hotline.
For Zipp wheels, I've had them relaced, new rims or new hubs for customers due to crashes and "JRA" either gratis or for a very reasonable fee.
They usually deal with these things in one phone call. Sometimes photos are required and sometime there is some paperwork but it's not a long process.

[SlowPokePete]

If yours are 2008, not the same hubs. All spokes cannot come free unless both hub flanges completely disintegrate 360 degrees both sides. Spokes are "captured" through spoke holes pre-2009 and not "slotted"

Doesn't mean they can't break a flange and cause a crash. Plenty of pics of other broken hub flanges (CK, DT, etc) none are immune to casting flaws/material contamination - rare but it happens.

Not likely for a quick answer from Zipp. Will need to verify authenticity of product, confirm proper maintenance, user damage/mileage/conditions, etc before ascribing any fault to the product. If failure rate was significant, CPSC would be all over it. So far they aren't and that structural hub design has been active since 2009. Enough time to prove out a design flaw vs lot related failure, vs "one-off" failure.

Appreciate the info...

SPP