I joined the tubular club

[john903]

About two months ago I discovered a hairline crack on my 2000 Campy Chorus rear hub NDS. I thought well they served me well these last 14 years so I better start looking for a new rear hub. Well my awesome wife said "You always talk about going to tubulars now would be a good time." So sure enough Ryun posted some White Industries hubs with Nemesis rims and I bought them and put them on my older Hampsten Cinghale. Ryun even included some old FMB tires to really spoil me Thanks Ryun. Anyway I have put probably just over 300 mi on them from commuting, climbing Hurricane ridge, and fast training rides heck I even rode some packed gravel forest service roads. All I can say is these wheels rock and yes I know the tires of course have a lot to do with the ride, but still. My favorite part of the tubular ride and feel is the way they transition and intuitively roll into a corner, nice. So if anyone is on the fence about going to tubular wheels I say give them a try they really are nice. Oh also the tires both had slow leaks so I put Stans in them and had no problem whatsoever except now the tires are worn down and I need new ones. Now I just have to stay away from carbon tubulars those will really lighten my wallet.
Have a great day.

[saab2000]

Those slow leaks may not have been slow leaks. Quality tubulars have latex tubes, which lose pressure. My Veloflex tubulars lose 30-40 PSI in a day.

FYI

It's not a big deal uniess you're doing 8 hour rides, which most people don't do. It is possible that my tires lose a few PSI over the course of a 3-4 hour ride but they probably just ride nicer at the end of the ride.

I've ridden the best clinchers and the best tubulars. The tubulars win. The best clinchers are close, but the sew ups still get the nod.

But as noted here and elsewhere, cheap clinchers beat cheap tubulars. Easily. If you're not all in with them, don't bother. Only the best tires will do and not everyone wants to stomach the risks.

Bad tubulars are garbage.

[thwart]

Getting a can of glue (Mastik) and some flux brushes has made a world of difference for me.

Yeah, it takes a bit of time to glue up a set, but all good things require some work, right? And with the stuff above, it's really easy-peasy.

Just tonight I hit a rock square riding with my wife… and what would've likely been a snake-bite flat with a clincher tire was just… go on, keep riding. And keep loving the smoothness and handling.

BTW, the new Vittoria Corsa Elites are very sweet, at least in 25 mm. And don't lose much air day-to-day.

[fogrider]

yeah, tubies on carbon rims are the best! good clinchers are pretty good, but once you put the lightweight of carbon rims into the mix, there's no contest. like you said, once you go all in...there's no going back!

[regularguy412]

Getting a can of glue (Mastik) and some flux brushes has made a world of difference for me.

Yeah, it takes a bit of time to glue up a set, but all good things require some work, right? And with the stuff above, it's really easy-peasy.

Just tonight I hit a rock square riding with my wife… and what would've likely been a snake-bite flat with a clincher tire was just… go on, keep riding. And keep loving the smoothness and handling.

BTW, the new Vittoria Corsa Elites are very sweet, at least in 25 mm. And don't lose much air day-to-day.

Same here, last week. Riding along in a paceline approx. 25 mph, and center-punched a rock which I did not see. The crack (sound) was so loud all my riding buddies (and me included) thot something broke.(carbon rims) Slowed down to about 18 to kinda check things out and see if it was gonna go flat. Heck, nothing happened. Still riding same tire today.

If for no other reason, riding tubies is nice just for the safety factor alone.

Mike in AR:beer:

[Jaq]

Getting a can of glue (Mastik) and some flux brushes has made a world of difference for me.

Yeah, it takes a bit of time to glue up a set, but all good things require some work, right? And with the stuff above, it's really easy-peasy.

Just tonight I hit a rock square riding with my wife… and what would've likely been a snake-bite flat with a clincher tire was just… go on, keep riding. And keep loving the smoothness and handling.

BTW, the new Vittoria Corsa Elites are very sweet, at least in 25 mm. And don't lose much air day-to-day.

The Corsa Elites have, if memory serves, a butyl tube. They also lack the "super grip" of the higher end Vittorias. That means you'll get more miles out of them, as the super-grip compound on the higher-end Vitts wears faster.

My fixie's got clinchers. I effing hate 'em. I've had any number of flats in the last six months on the same LA roads I cover on my tubbies without a hitch.

Also - and I say this knowing how much people revile the stuff - but you can look into Tufo tape. I glue my tires, but Tufo's perfectly serviceable.

[oldpotatoe]

Getting a can of glue (Mastik) and some flux brushes has made a world of difference for me.

Yeah, it takes a bit of time to glue up a set, but all good things require some work, right? And with the stuff above, it's really easy-peasy.

Just tonight I hit a rock square riding with my wife… and what would've likely been a snake-bite flat with a clincher tire was just… go on, keep riding. And keep loving the smoothness and handling.

BTW, the new Vittoria Corsa Elites are very sweet, at least in 25 mm. And don't lose much air day-to-day.

Corsa Elite in 25 are my main tubie tires now..290 TPI and butyl tubes(don't lose air unless ya gotta a wee hole)..little Orangeseal in before mount and go ride. I wonder how many posts it will take before a 'BTDT, never again, clinchers/tubeless are blah, blah, blah..

NO compelling reason to use clinchers, even when I owned a bike shop and could ride/use anything I wanted..at wholesale.

[oldguy00]

Hey all, I've been a long time tubie user, about 25 years now. EVery time I tried switching to clincher, flats. I hate flats. But maybe my installation technique wasn't up to par...not sure.

So my dilemma now - I've switched almost 100% to triathlon/Ironman now. And so now my concerns are not only flats, but ease of changing them.
Up until now I had been carrying a can of pitstop, and on the longer events, a spare tire too along with extra CO2. But I hadn't actually had a flat in 4+ years (tubies!! :)).

OK, so on a recent training ride, I fianlly got a flat tire. My carbone pros with Veloflex carbon tubies. I thought, 'Great, finally a chance to try the pitstop stuff, etc.'. I never have trouble inflating the tires with a pump, and I just have a normal screw on valve extender on the tire. I put the pitstop can on it, no go, white stuff just eventually starts squirting out the sides of the nozzle, won't go in the tire, no idea why.
I ddn't have a spare tire, so I just decided to ride the flat home (another beauty of tubies) as I was only about 4km out.

When I got home, I went to change the tire. Now this is another 'test' for me, in terms of how easy/quickly I can get a tire off if I had to change it on the side of the road. Man, I could not get this tire off. I think I had it glued with mastik glue. I usually use 3/4 of a tube of glue, less than most folks, but this was on firm. Then I tried another 'trick', got out the razor blade and cut it so I could get a finger in it and pulled, still no go!! After a good 10 minutes of slowly slicing small pieces at a time through the glued base tape, trying not to to cut myself or damage the carbon rim, I finally got a section free and then it pulled off.

My dilemma now - use clinchers knowing that the chances of flatting are higher, but they are easier to change, or use tubies, but will need to glue them on very lightly I guess. This in theory will raise the rolling resistance of them, and of course in theory could allow them to roll off easier, but this isn't a major concern of mine. Good clinchers with latex tubes almost always test faster than tubulars in terms of rolling resistance. Not a big deal for typical weekend group ride, but over an Ironman distance (even tony martin is using clinchers for tt's!), this can equal a few minutes. Tubulars only have good rolling resistance if glued really well. If I glue them loosely I give up speed.

Sorry to be long winded! Tubies are great, flat way less often in my opinion, but I may be racing tri's on clinchers next season...

[dgauthier]

(. . .) Well my awesome wife said "You always talk about going to tubulars now would be a good time." (. . .)


Awesome wives are wonderful, aren't they? She sounds like a keeper for sure.

Thanks for the interesting first impressions. Your observations about the cornering characteristics echo other posts on this board. Apparently this is thanks to the even, almost perfectly circular cross section of a tubular vs. a clincher.

[ultraman6970]

"Tubulars only have good rolling resistance if glued really well. If I glue them loosely I give up speed"

1st time I hear this. Oldguy, do you know why you have to glue the tubulars?

[oldguy00]

"Tubulars only have good rolling resistance if glued really well. If I glue them loosely I give up speed"

1st time I hear this. Oldguy, do you know why you have to glue the tubulars?

Ummm....yes, I know why. :)
If you are really interested in reading more into my statement, then do some googling, or head over to slowtwitch and do some searching.
As I said, the best rolling resistance to be had for tubies, aside from a high quality tire, is a glue job that is very strong. In theory, 3m fast tack (sp?) is supposed to be one of the best, but of course near impossible to get the tire off after!
It's a case of finding the right compromise.

[oldpotatoe]

Ummm....yes, I know why. :)
If you are really interested in reading more into my statement, then do some googling, or head over to slowtwitch and do some searching.
As I said, the best rolling resistance to be had for tubies, aside from a high quality tire, is a glue job that is very strong. In theory, 3m fast tack (sp?) is supposed to be one of the best, but of course near impossible to get the tire off after!
It's a case of finding the right compromise.

Panaracer tubie glue.."take a trip without leaving the farm"..my favorite. Getting hard to find tubs/cans tho..tubes only. Vittoria, Conti but really expensive. Any with more coats rather than less, solvent brush..

[ultraman6970]

Oldguy, I think you did not get the question... I get stuff off translation all the time so I apologize ok? . Tubulars work by constriction, glue is there due to other reasons besides what people think.

You use 25s or 28s tubulars by any chance???

As for the glue, the best seen is the tufo tape, the original one, dont get a flat in a new tubular because for sure the tape was going to get stuck in the glue :) Overkill, but worked.

[FlashUNC]

Welcome to the club. Switched a couple years back and keep a set of clinchers around more for the option than anything else.

I'm personally a bit fan of Conti Competitions. Ride solid and the butyl tube is pretty tough.

[csm]

I'm going back to tubies next season. Thinking carbon rims and 28s if they'll clear the fork.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[chwupper]

I recently joined the tubular club, too. I did a semi-vintage build of a SanRensho over the summer. Got 8 speed campy chorus hubs and had them laced to some NOS campy tubular rims. After ~250 miles, I can say I absolutely love the ride quality. Bumps that are jarring on clinchers get smoothed out with the tubulars. That might partly be the 36 spoke wheels, too.

One thing: getting continental sprinter tires onto those rims was about one of the hardest things I've ever done. I have to wonder if the rims are just slightly bigger than a modern rim? On the plus side, those tires are on nice and snug.

[regularguy412]

I recently joined the tubular club, too. I did a semi-vintage build of a SanRensho over the summer. Got 8 speed campy chorus hubs and had them laced to some NOS campy tubular rims. After ~250 miles, I can say I absolutely love the ride quality. Bumps that are jarring on clinchers get smoothed out with the tubulars. That might partly be the 36 spoke wheels, too.

One thing: getting continental sprinter tires onto those rims was about one of the hardest things I've ever done. I have to wonder if the rims are just slightly bigger than a modern rim? On the plus side, those tires are on nice and snug.

Nope. The rims are prolly not bigger. It's well-known that Conti tires fit much tighter than other brands. I can't comment on other brands, because I've only ridden Conti's for some 25-odd years. BUT-- that's why I like'em. Much less chance of rolling one off. I've only had that happen to me ONCE. That was with the first set of tubies/Contis that I ever owned,, and I didn't glue those up. Needless to say, I started gluing my own tires thereafter and have not had that happen since.

The best way to get a Conti tire on a rim, IMHO, is to stretch it onto another rim dry, without glue, and pump it up to about to about 7 or 8 bar. Let it sit for at least a day or two. The last pair of Contis I purchased were SUPER tight. I had to resort to putting them on a rack in my clothes dryer on HOT and let them run for about 20 minutes. They were warm enough to then be stretched onto the dry rim.

The method I use to glue up is: one thin coat on the rim and let it flash for about 15 minutes. Then put on one more thin coat to the rim, immediately deflate the tire from the stretching rim and put it on the glued rim. Yes, that is correct. I do not apply glue to the base tape. The Contis are so tight that you just make a mess of the rim and your hands if you put glue on the tape. Pump up tire to about 7 bar, let sit overnight and yer ready to roll!

The bond using this method is so strong, that I have to carry tire levers on my rides just to get the tire off, if I flat. I found that out the hard way, when I wore blisters on both thumbs one afternoon.

The method that is needed to safely mount other brands of tubular tires may vary, but this one has worked for me for many years.

Mike in AR:beer:

[Highpowernut]

So , I too am a "tri guy" and use clincher tires. Never rode tubies. The main concerns I have are changing a flat durring a race and the thorns/ pointy things here in the desert.

I have seen one friend eat it from a tire that rolled off. Didn't make me want to go towards tubies.

I have few flats, so I've contemplated tubies for that reason, but can't commit, due to above.

[palincss]

Anyway I have put probably just over 300 mi on them from commuting, climbing Hurricane ridge, and fast training rides heck I even rode some packed gravel forest service roads. All I can say is these wheels rock and yes I know the tires of course have a lot to do with the ride, but still. My favorite part of the tubular ride and feel is the way they transition and intuitively roll into a corner, nice. So if anyone is on the fence about going to tubular wheels I say give them a try they really are nice. Oh also the tires both had slow leaks so I put Stans in them and had no problem whatsoever except now the tires are worn down and I need new ones. Now I just have to stay away from carbon tubulars those will really lighten my wallet.
Have a great day.

You got only 300 miles on them and now they are worn down and in need of replacement? Am I understanding that correctly?

300 miles may be plenty enough to experience the good side of tubulars, but it's probably not nearly long enough to experience the downside (i.e., flats and repair of). I suggest before you endorse them for anyone on the fence, I think you should wait until you've had a few flat tires and repaired them, and also replaced a couple of tires.

[rwsaunders]

You got only 300 miles on them and now they are worn down and in need of replacement? Am I understanding that correctly

"So sure enough Ryun posted some White Industries hubs with Nemesis rims and I bought them and put them on my older Hampsten Cinghale. Ryun even included some old FMB tires to really spoil me Thanks Ryun. Anyway I have put probably just over 300 mi on them from commuting, climbing Hurricane ridge, and fast training rides heck I even rode some packed gravel forest service roads."

I think that he picked them up second hand...

[teleguy57]

BTW, the new Vittoria Corsa Elites are very sweet, at least in 25 mm. And don't lose much air day-to-day.

Corsa Elite in 25 are my main tubie tires now..290 TPI and butyl tubes(don't lose air unless ya gotta a wee hole)..little Orangeseal in before mount and go ride. I wonder how many posts it will take before a 'BTDT, never again, clinchers/tubeless are blah, blah, blah..

NO compelling reason to use clinchers, even when I owned a bike shop and could ride/use anything I wanted..at wholesale.

Agree with thwart and OP. I have a set of Corsa Elite 25s on my Nucleons, and they ride pretty similarly to my Vittoria Pave 25s on another wheelset, and less than 2/3 the cost. We'll see about durability, but so far so good.

I have one set of clinchers, and those rarely get ridden as I prefer one of my three sets of tubulars (Nemesis on Chorus, Nucleons, and Aelolus D3 3s)

[john903]

Well I went to Seattle bike swap today and bought some new Vittoria Corsa tubies and guess what the new tires came on a set of older Campy Neucleon tubulars for $150.00 so hey now my other bike will have new shoes as well, luckily I only have two bikes. Did anyone else go to Seattle bike swap today (Sunday 28th.)

Palincss: Yes the tires that came on the Nemesis wheel set were fairly worn the rear more than the front. I felt it was safer keeping the front as a spare and replace them, they were a bonus and courtesy from Ryun just to get me on the road and experience really nice tubulars of which I am very thankful of. I have had experience with tubulars before, but that was 30 years ago when I was racing. So yes you are correct I may need more experience with them and I should have said IMHO instead of a blanket endorsement.

Have a great day.

[saab2000]

Well I went to Seattle bike swap today and bought some new Vittoria Corsa tubies and guess what the new tires came on a set of older Campy Neucleon tubulars for $150.00 so hey now my other bike will have new shoes as well, luckily I only have two bikes. Did anyone else go to Seattle bike swap today (Sunday 28th.)

Palincss: Yes the tires that came on the Nemesis wheel set were fairly worn the rear more than the front. I felt it was safer keeping the front as a spare and replace them, they were a bonus and courtesy from Ryun just to get me on the road and experience really nice tubulars of which I am very thankful of. I have had experience with tubulars before, but that was 30 years ago when I was racing. So yes you are correct I may need more experience with them and I should have said IMHO instead of a blanket endorsement.

Have a great day.

My Nucleons are my favorite wheels ever. The vast majority of my miles take place on Nucleon tubulars. I'd be shocked if you don't like them, assuming the hubs are still in good shape.

Check out the hubs and if needed, service them. But this is a great set of wheels.

[thwart]

Well I bought some new Vittoria Corsa tubies and guess what the new tires came on a set of older Campy Neucleon tubulars for $150.00

Yer killin' me here…

;)

[teleguy57]

Well I went to Seattle bike swap today and bought some new Vittoria Corsa tubies and guess what the new tires came on a set of older Campy Neucleon tubulars for $150.00 so hey now my other bike will have new shoes as well, luckily I only have two bikes. Did anyone else go to Seattle bike swap today (Sunday 28th.)

Well done! Score of the day/week/month/???

[oldpotatoe]

You got only 300 miles on them and now they are worn down and in need of replacement? Am I understanding that correctly?

300 miles may be plenty enough to experience the good side of tubulars, but it's probably not nearly long enough to experience the downside (i.e., flats and repair of). I suggest before you endorse them for anyone on the fence, I think you should wait until you've had a few flat tires and repaired them, and also replaced a couple of tires.

And find that replacing flat tires, gluing and even repairing them is..no...big...deal, and the superior ride is certainly worth the implied 'pain' of using a tubular.

Winter must be coming...

[El Chaba]

And find that replacing flat tires, gluing and even repairing them is..no...big...deal, and the superior ride is certainly worth the implied 'pain' of using a tubular.

Winter must be coming...

In reality, the added skill set is the ability to squeeze a tube (Or dip a brush in a can) and apply a coat of glue to a parabolic shaped rim surface in a relatively even manner....

[oldpotatoe]

In reality, the added skill set is the ability to squeeze a tube (Or dip a brush in a can) and apply a coat of glue to a parabolic shaped rim surface in a relatively even manner....

I know, so much of the tubie lore, BS and black magic comes from 'horror' stories, often 3rd, 4th,5th hand. "I saw a guy roll a tire,once, NEVER gonna try them!!"

All bike tires are some sort of compromise, ALL tires are really, car, motorcycle, aircraft, trailer...

[palincss]

And find that replacing flat tires, gluing and even repairing them is..no...big...deal, and the superior ride is certainly worth the implied 'pain' of using a tubular.



I have no doubt whatever that some will agree with that statement 100%. Others when confronted with the reality of fixing flats and replacing tires may not. But it is the big test and the "other half" of the experience, the morning-after-the-night-before, if you will.

[palincss]

In reality, the added skill set is the ability to squeeze a tube (Or dip a brush in a can) and apply a coat of glue to a parabolic shaped rim surface in a relatively even manner....

Aren't you forgetting the whole thing with the razor blade and the needle and thread and. before all that. finding the location of the puncture so that all the cutting and subsequent sewing will not be for naught?

[bostondrunk]

Don't forget, tubulars also need to be aged for at least 9 years in your Italian grandmother's humid cellar. At least, that's what all the Belgian kermis riders I coach tell me......
It's just not worth it.

;)
:banana:

[El Chaba]

Aren't you forgetting the whole thing with the razor blade and the needle and thread and. before all that. finding the location of the puncture so that all the cutting and subsequent sewing will not be for naught?

I generally don't repair tubulars. I flat so infrequently, and the tire is usually well worn when I do....add to that that somewhere between 50-75% of the flats can be repaired by locating the small flint or Michelin wire and removing it and putting a little sealant in the tire....

[FlashUNC]

I generally don't repair tubulars. I flat so infrequently, and the tire is usually well worn when I do....add to that that somewhere between 50-75% of the flats can be repaired by locating the small flint or Michelin wire and removing it and putting a little sealant in the tire....

+1. If I can't seal it, the tire is probably toast and couldn't protect a new tube anyways.

Touch wood, but the two tubular flats I've gotten in the last couple years would have both destroyed clincher tires in the same way. So I at least get a shot at riding home with a tire under the saddle as opposed to calling the team support wagon and bribing The Boss with coffee as payment.

[Admiral Ackbar]

id love to join "the club" but hell, its been a several thousand miles since I've flatted a clincher! if i was a bit more flush with cash id probably make the switch tho, maybe this winter... the improved ride quality is something that has always appealed to me. i can get my clinchers to ride very nice but that requires some crazy low pressures

but out of curiosity, who does a "fat" tubular? as in a true 28mm or so? i know vittoria and challenge do, conti too (gatorskin tho...) is that it? I'm not a fan of conti tires, and I've heard mixed reviews on the ride quality and durablity of vittorias and challenge tubs respectively. anyone care to comment?

[FlashUNC]

id love to join "the club" but hell, its been a several thousand miles since I've flatted a clincher! if i was a bit more flush with cash id probably make the switch tho, maybe this winter... the improved ride quality is something that has always appealed to me. i can get my clinchers to ride very nice but that requires some crazy low pressures

but out of curiosity, who does a "fat" tubular? as in a true 28mm or so? i know vittoria and challenge do, conti too (gatorskin tho...) is that it? I'm not a fan of conti tires, and I've heard mixed reviews on the ride quality and durablity of vittorias and challenge tubs respectively. anyone care to comment?

If Challenge paid me to ride their road tubs, I wouldn't do it. Awful tubular tires. QC is all over the map with them and they're fragile to boot. I went through 4 Stradas, and that was enough for me to learn my lesson. Their cross tubies might be the greatest thing ever, but their road tubulars are terrible.

There's a couple other options out there for a 28mm tub. Schwalbe is making them now, and isn't Tufo still making theirs?

[oldguy00]

Are you putting them on road wheels? Then why the need for a 28mm?
Vittoria Corsa's come in a 25mm width. Pumped to ~105, they ride super smooth.

[oldpotatoe]

Are you putting them on road wheels? Then why the need for a 28mm?
Vittoria Corsa's come in a 25mm width. Pumped to ~105, they ride super smooth.

I rarely go above about 95psi.. .1 offa ton, Corsa Elite in 25c..

[teleguy57]

If Challenge paid me to ride their road tubs, I wouldn't do it. Awful tubular tires. QC is all over the map with them and they're fragile to boot. I went through 4 Stradas, and that was enough for me to learn my lesson. Their cross tubies might be the greatest thing ever, but their road tubulars are terrible.

+100. I've posted here about my terrible experience with Stradas as well.

Are you putting them on road wheels? Then why the need for a 28mm? Vittoria Corsa's come in a 25mm width. Pumped to ~105, they ride super smooth.

I am happy with my 25mm Corsa Elites and Paves for 99% of my riding. I wouldn't mind trying a fatter tubular for coarser gravel riding -- more for the handling than comfort. The 26 or 28 Schwalbe might be a reasonable choice for that -- and help me reconcile having two similar wheelsets (Nemesis on Chorus and Nucleons) by having different tires on each:)

[bostondrunk]

...
One thing: getting continental sprinter tires onto those rims was about one of the hardest things I've ever done. I have to wonder if the rims are just slightly bigger than a modern rim? On the plus side, those tires are on nice and snug.

Toes over rim my friend, toes over rim. :)

[thwart]

Toes over rim my friend, toes over rim. :)
… and get the base tape wet before you stretch 'em. Conti Comps are great tires.