I rode NYC Central Park . . here is what I saw

[velomonkey]

I rode Central Park today. A few background notes. I've ridden the park a ton as I was in NYC for work 4 days a week for about 8 months. I've done 50 mile rides only in the park. I've never raced in it, though. I also created the first strava segment - it was a full lap of the park - I was one of the first east coast strava athletes back in the day. Sidenote: I have never hammered a strava segment - EVER.

Riding the in park kind blows. It's impressive that there is a 6 mile loop within the most popular city in the world. It's not a 6 mile loop to hammer unless it's a race. There are simply way too many variables to deal with. Tourist on bikes, kids on bikes, runners, cars, horses and pedestrians. There are parts, like on the back side, that don't contain much traffic.

So . . . what did I see today - if you ride the park you will know most of what I say.

There is massive enforcement where the incident occurred with the death of a pedestrian.

I saw riders getting ticketed - most were tourist on rental bikes.

I did 3 laps, I was not passed by a single rider. My average speed was 18mph including a few lights.

I saw a cab in a section where no cars were allowed going the wrong way. Read that again. Thankfully, he was getting pulled over when I saw it.

I saw many tourists veer off their line and, as always, I expect that and ride defensively.

I stopped at any red light - several times they were red for NO reason. Not a pedestrian in sight. So I rolled through as did any other rider.

One 2 of the 3 laps I saw people trying to cross on a ped walkway that had no light. I stopped, made eye contact and said "go on" on the first occasion a delivery dude just rolled through talking on his phone, the second time a rider stopped when I did.

I saw many times, particularly at 90th st, where peds did not have the light and they looked me right in the eye and crossed. I saw this at several other intersections, too. Perhaps 20 times total.

I saw 3 adult women with a group of maybe 15 pre schoolers waiting to cross, they did not have the light. Right after I rode through I heard one of the woman yell "let's cross now . . . hurry" - I turned around and sure enough they did NOT have the light.

The enforcement I saw was only targeted at cyclists. Some of it was just park enforcement talking to bike riders, other times riders were getting tickets. I felt particularly watched since I was in lycra.

At one light, where I had the red and was stoped, I had some woman yell at me "good choice cause Orange isn't your color" perhaps she meant it was 'good choice' to stop and 'orange' for a jumpsuit as if I didn't stop I'd get arrested. Whatever.

Some of the peds who crossed against the red where so SMUG it took all I had not to squirt them with my water.

I did my 3 laps, it was boring, so I rode to the rapha store - their expresso was too tart and served with a side of smug. I should have done another lap.

Net, net. I've said it elsewhere and will say it again - I bet anything the reason the rider in the death of the woman isn't charged is because the peds crossed against the light. I really wish he wasn't on a TT bike, I don't know how fast he was going, but I wish it ended differently. This is a two side street - no pun - if NYC parks want's to do effective enforcement - here is an idea - patrol on bike rather than standing in one isolated spot. And when you ticket and talk to people, you have to do it to the peds, too. The news articles are anti-bike and the enforcement is anti-bike.

[paredown]

...

I saw many times, particularly at 90th st, where peds did not have the light and they looked me right in the eye and crossed. I saw this at several other intersections, too. Perhaps 20 times total.

I saw 3 adult women with a group of maybe 15 pre schoolers waiting to cross, they did not have the light. Right after I rode through I heard one of the woman yell "let's cross now . . . hurry" - I turned around and sure enough they did NOT have the light.

The enforcement I saw was only targeted at cyclists....

Some of the peds who crossed against the red where so SMUG it took all I had not to squirt them with my water.

....This is a two side street - no pun - if NYC parks want's to do effective enforcement - here is an idea - patrol on bike rather than standing in one isolated spot. And when you ticket and talk to people, you have to do it to the peds, too. The news articles are anti-bike and the enforcement is anti-bike.

Dovetails with my experience riding in the city and in Prospect and Central Park.

Jaywalking and crossing on reds is a civic religion for New York pedestrians.

I heard a fragment of an NPR segment this morning, and the talking head mentioned what I have thought--that the retention of many of the traffic lights in the park is a hold-over from when it was open to cars, so a starting point might be to eliminate cars, eliminate the traffic lights that no longer make sense, and add more push and cross lights where the main trails/pathways cross the road. It is not a complete fix, but it would minimize confusion about what the heck these random lights are doing and should I be actually stopping for phantom cars/pedestrians...

[tumbler]

so a starting point might be to eliminate cars, eliminate the traffic lights that no longer make sense, and add more push and cross lights where the main trails/pathways cross the road. It is not a complete fix, but it would minimize confusion about what the heck these random lights are doing and should I be actually stopping for phantom cars/pedestrians...

+1. Aside from the east-west roads on 66th, 79th, etc. there are no good reasons to have cars traveling through one of America's greatest urban parks. Even though they're only allowed during certain hours, their presence creates unnecessary confusion re: lane use, traffic lights, speeds, etc.

Push button signals (along with actual enforcement) would be a significant improvement. Pedestrians wouldn't be waiting at lights that are mostly ignored and bikes could keep cruising when the crossing is empty.

[zzy]

I've been avoiding these threads till everything calms down. I've been riding laps in Prospect and Central for years. Here's the truth:

- Peds in NYC cross whenever they want, and they have right of way; even when they don't. This is a fact of city life.
- No one likes "spandex" cyclists, and they're the only group hated by both pedestrians and motorists (okay and Handsome Cabs too). And frankly for good reason - there are far too many dangerous delivery bikes/messengers/etc in the city.
- Police enforcement is extremely lazy and targeted at the easiest groups to catch - pelotons of spandex riders in the park. The cops just setup random points in Central and pull over groups of riders who brake the same laws EVERYONE breaks ALL THE TIME. I have been struck on the street in front of NYPD by another cyclist, who fled the scene. They looked at me and shrugged.
- The traffic lights in Central make NO sense, and randomly switch, even when there is no one there. In Prospect they must be triggered. Thus everyone ignores them and rightfully so.
- The (newly painted) lanes in the park mean nothing; there is no 'car' lane unless cars are allowed in the park (only on weekdays during rush hours). People run in the bike lane all the time and often you HAVE to use all the space available.
- Tourists are (often) complete idiots who have NO IDEA how to behave in the densest city in America.

So the issue is this: we just don't have a consistent set of rules, infrastructure, enforcement, and awareness to achieve DiBlasio's Vision Zero. Central Park will remain a free-for-all until the issues above are addressed. This does not excuse the cyclist who hit that poor lady, but the collision is a result of many factors (including fault of one and likely both parties). Your head has to be on a swivel in the city on a bike, and you need to ride at a reasonable speed. The CRCA/NYCC have issued very reasonable guidelines for park riding that should be followed by everyone. In fact, given how many people use the park, including thousands of cyclists per day, it's a miracle that more accidents don't happen.

It's easy to just blame the cyclist, but the whole city needs to recognize the various factors the created the dangerous situation in the first place, and the utterly ineffective ticket blitz going on right now is NOT the solution to the problem.

e - for grammar

[EDS]

I rode Central Park today. A few background notes. I've ridden the park a ton as I was in NYC for work 4 days a week for about 8 months. I've done 50 mile rides only in the park. I've never raced in it, though. I also created the first strava segment - it was a full lap of the park - I was one of the first east coast strava athletes back in the day. Sidenote: I have never hammered a strava segment - EVER.

Riding the in park kind blows. It's impressive that there is a 6 mile loop within the most popular city in the world. It's not a 6 mile loop to hammer unless it's a race. There are simply way too many variables to deal with. Tourist on bikes, kids on bikes, runners, cars, horses and pedestrians. There are parts, like on the back side, that don't contain much traffic.

So . . . what did I see today - if you ride the park you will know most of what I say.

There is massive enforcement where the incident occurred with the death of a pedestrian.

I saw riders getting ticketed - most were tourist on rental bikes.

I did 3 laps, I was not passed by a single rider. My average speed was 18mph including a few lights.

I saw a cab in a section where no cars were allowed going the wrong way. Read that again. Thankfully, he was getting pulled over when I saw it.

I saw many tourists veer off their line and, as always, I expect that and ride defensively.

I stopped at any red light - several times they were red for NO reason. Not a pedestrian in sight. So I rolled through as did any other rider.

One 2 of the 3 laps I saw people trying to cross on a ped walkway that had no light. I stopped, made eye contact and said "go on" on the first occasion a delivery dude just rolled through talking on his phone, the second time a rider stopped when I did.

I saw many times, particularly at 90th st, where peds did not have the light and they looked me right in the eye and crossed. I saw this at several other intersections, too. Perhaps 20 times total.

I saw 3 adult women with a group of maybe 15 pre schoolers waiting to cross, they did not have the light. Right after I rode through I heard one of the woman yell "let's cross now . . . hurry" - I turned around and sure enough they did NOT have the light.

The enforcement I saw was only targeted at cyclists. Some of it was just park enforcement talking to bike riders, other times riders were getting tickets. I felt particularly watched since I was in lycra.

At one light, where I had the red and was stoped, I had some woman yell at me "good choice cause Orange isn't your color" perhaps she meant it was 'good choice' to stop and 'orange' for a jumpsuit as if I didn't stop I'd get arrested. Whatever.

Some of the peds who crossed against the red where so SMUG it took all I had not to squirt them with my water.

I did my 3 laps, it was boring, so I rode to the rapha store - their expresso was too tart and served with a side of smug. I should have done another lap.

Net, net. I've said it elsewhere and will say it again - I bet anything the reason the rider in the death of the woman isn't charged is because the peds crossed against the light. I really wish he wasn't on a TT bike, I don't know how fast he was going, but I wish it ended differently. This is a two side street - no pun - if NYC parks want's to do effective enforcement - here is an idea - patrol on bike rather than standing in one isolated spot. And when you ticket and talk to people, you have to do it to the peds, too. The news articles are anti-bike and the enforcement is anti-bike.

What time were you in the park?

[Saint Vitus]

NYC, y'all can have at it...

[Mr. Pink]

Move to Westchester.

[alessandro]

This is a two side street - no pun - if NYC parks want's to do effective enforcement - here is an idea - patrol on bike rather than standing in one isolated spot. And when you ticket and talk to people, you have to do it to the peds, too. The news articles are anti-bike and the enforcement is anti-bike.


So the issues is this: we just don't have a consistent set of rules, infrastructure, enforcement, and awareness to achieve DiBlasio's Vision Zero. Central Park will remain a free-for-all until the issues above are addressed. This does not excuse the cyclist who hit that poor lady, but the collision is a result of many factors (including fault of one and likely both parties). Your head has to be on a swivel in the city on a bike, and you need to ride at a reasonable speed. The CRCA/NYCC has issued very reasonable guidelines for park riding that should be followed by everyone. In fact, given how many people use the park, including thousands of cyclists per day, it's a miracle that more accidents don't happen.

It's easy to just blame the cyclist, but the whole city needs to recognize the various factors the created the dangerous situation in the first place, and the utterly ineffective ticket blitz going on right now is NOT the solution to the problem.

velomonkey, zzy, great posts. My suggestion to anyone who is a resident of the city, or works there, or visits frequently, is to print out your comments, on paper, put them in an envelope with a stamp, and send them to the mayor and to your city councilman/woman. Politicians/their staff place much more weight on comments that are mailed, rather than email. Send a copy to TA--email will work for them. Follow up in 6-8 weeks. Keep up the good work, and ride safe.

[gavingould]

what's expresso?

anyway, when a few pedestrians get killed jaywalking and it's no one's fault but their own, you might start to see some enforcement for stupidity. until then, cyclists are the most recent 'big uproar' problem.

jaywalking is a big problem in Chicago too, hardly a day goes by that someone doesn't walk out in front of me regardless of which highly visible deadly machine i'm in control of.

[bironi]

zzy,
I would mail this message to DeBlaio. Well reasoned observations.
Thanks,
Byron

I've been avoiding these threads till everything calms down. I've been riding laps in Prospect and Central for years. Here's the truth:

- Peds in NYC cross whenever they want, and they have right of way; even when they don't. This is a fact of city life.
- No one likes "spandex" cyclists, and they're the only group hated by both pedestrians and motorists (okay and Handsome Cabs too). And frankly for good reason - there are far too many dangerous delivery bikes/messengers/etc in the city.
- Police enforcement is extremely lazy and targeted at the easiest groups to catch - pelotons of spandex riders in the park. The cops just setup random points in Central and pull over groups of riders who brake the same laws EVERYONE breaks ALL THE TIME. I have been struck on the street in front of NYPD by another cyclist, who fled the scene. They looked at me and shrugged.
- The traffic lights in Central make NO sense, and randomly switch, even when there is no one there. In Prospect they must be triggered. Thus everyone ignores them and rightfully so.
- The (newly painted) lanes in the park mean nothing; there is no 'car' lane unless cars are allowed in the park (only on weekdays during rush hours). People run in the bike lane all the time and often you HAVE to use all the space available.
- Tourists are (often) complete idiots who have NO IDEA who to behave in the densest city in America.

So the issue is this: we just don't have a consistent set of rules, infrastructure, enforcement, and awareness to achieve DiBlasio's Vision Zero. Central Park will remain a free-for-all until the issues above are addressed. This does not excuse the cyclist who hit that poor lady, but the collision is a result of many factors (including fault of one and likely both parties). Your head has to be on a swivel in the city on a bike, and you need to ride at a reasonable speed. The CRCA/NYCC have issued very reasonable guidelines for park riding that should be followed by everyone. In fact, given how many people use the park, including thousands of cyclists per day, it's a miracle that more accidents don't happen.

It's easy to just blame the cyclist, but the whole city needs to recognize the various factors the created the dangerous situation in the first place, and the utterly ineffective ticket blitz going on right now is NOT the solution to the problem.

e - for grammar

[Shortsocks]

I did my 3 laps, it was boring, so I rode to the rapha store - their expresso was too tart and served with a side of smug. I should have done another lap..

Lol. I love that. Served with a side of smug. :)

[cinema]

I lived in New York for five years. It is a ped city and that's what's so great about it. Jay walking is a way of life, part of why the city is so walkable, and as long as you have a brain in your head it's fine. That will never change. I also lived in Westchester/White Plains; the city is not where I wanted to ride. It isn't made for that, never will be and doesn't care about you as a cyclist. So slow down and assume people will walk in front of you. And don't be sore about it because, honestly, Lycra doesn't belong in that city. The rest of the state is beautiful and great rides are not too far from your door.

[BumbleBeeDave]

But I don't see how this is much different from any other road in America--or probably anywhere for that matter.

There's always total idiots who will walk/drive/crawl/otherwise perambulate in front of you. The question is at what point are there enough of them where it's just not worth it to try and ride anymore?

Sounds to me like Central Park is way beyond my tolerance point, so I won't go there. If for some reason I DO end up going there I will remember these posts and grow eyes in the back of my head. :eek:

BBD

[Aaron O]

I won't ride in NYC again after the last experience - the drivers are terrific, the peds were god awful.

[marciero]

Peds are always getting killed by cars in that city but that does not seem to cause any uproar.

[Louis]

Some of the peds who crossed against the red where so SMUG it took all I had not to squirt them with my water.

I did my 3 laps, it was boring, so I rode to the rapha store - their expresso was too tart and served with a side of smug. I should have done another lap.


I knew it, I knew it, I knew it - IT'S ALL RAPHA'S FAULT !!!

[Louis]

Peds are always getting killed by cars in that city but that does not seem to cause any uproar.


'cause lots of people need/want/like/drive cars.

Cars are the baseline configuration and accepted as such. By definition they're OK.

It's bikes that are the aberration, so we're held to a much different standard.

[thegunner]

I won't ride in NYC again after the last experience - the drivers are terrific, the peds were god awful.

said no one, ever.

[Aaron O]

said no one, ever.

Heh - I was impressed with how well they handled the chaos.

[chasea]

Impossible that the barista was smug. I know who worked today.

And I probably know what time you were in the club.

And I bet I know what kit you were in and the bike you rode in on.

Other than that, I agree with your points.

Nice bike.

[velomonkey]

A few follow up points. I don't live in NYC, I don't care to, I live out in South East CT - home of both Tom Danielson and Jeremy Powers - we have great, safe roads. It's the most Belgium like of anywhere I've ever ridden in America and I've ridden in a lot of places as I have to travel and will often travel with a bike.

I don't think anyone, anywhere, should not be allowed to ride their bike safely and should be able to do so on roads that have speed limits above 25 mph - NYC does not have such a situation. I think this as I am pro-bike for both transportation and sport - the sport part requires that riders have access to roads that allow them to 'hammer.'

As unfair as it is, I also think cyclist have a duty to conduct themselves so as even when their right they go on the side of safety - both for themselves and for others. How many time have we ridden our bikes where even if it's legal right we put ourselves in danger - this is a grey line, no doubt, but it's reality.

I am also pro-pedestrian and understand that in a city like NYC it's just going to be a part of life. I also understand that like cyclist will 'roll through' a stop sign a pedestrian will jaywalk. I get it.

Here is what I don't get - I never, ever, ever, ever do a roll through and just presume the larger, bigger, faster objects in the road (i.e., cars) are going to stop for MY safety. The converse of this as it relates to pedestrians is what I saw on display today in Central Park - no concern for crossing against the red, no eye contact - borderline on a 'I dare you to hit me.'

I have no patience for bikers who do that or pedestrians.

To be fully transparent - I rode the 'bike lane' down 9th to the SMUG bike HQ that is Rapha HQ. Unlike the park, there I saw lots of riders just blow through red lights. Stuff I would never do - but my thought on that is - ok, but whatever may or may not happens - you lose and you assume the risk. I do NOT think the same mind-set is with a lot of pedestrians that cross against the light in the park.

And, yes, it is RAPHA's fault, it always is, you did see the pic of the rider in the incident, he was decked in rapha: jersey, cap, and 'gilet!' Just saying . . . .

[aramis]

Peds are always getting killed by cars in that city but that does not seem to cause any uproar.

Couldn't agree more. It's so common it's not "newsworthy".

[chasea]

Velomonkey,

It's been a rough week for cyclists in NYC. We're in an awkward position, sharing the road, but seemingly being the only ones policed. Riding here is testing for sure. I've got the scars to prove it.

Come back in tomorrow if you want to talk about it. I'll buy you a beer. I'm in 2:00-ish to close.

-Chase

[dzxc]

This is really interesting, and mirrors my experience in NYC.

[Likes2ridefar]

said no one, ever.

Crazily enough I think they are right. Now that I commute from the burbs to the city I see a steady progression of better driving the closer to the city I get. There are obviously always exceptions, but generally I feel better in the city than going through similar traffic in say, Danbury.

the best area is in Westchester where most drive expensive cars that have blind spot warnings in their mirrors.

[torquer]

the best area is in Westchester where most drive expensive cars that have blind spot warnings in their mirrors.
You mean those turn-signal lights? They only work if the driver uses the turn signals, and in my experience, that is one area that safe driving declines as one approaches Manhattan. I get the sense that it's considered a sign of weakness (unmanliness?) to signal turns, much less lane changes, driving in the Apple.

[Dead Man]

So essentially, everyone is doing everything wrong, but bicyclists are conspicuous and vocal, so people notice us more, and resent us more, and therefor attribute more than our fare share of blame for problems (that probably don't even really exist to begin with).

Ammarite?

[malcolm]

You mean those turn-signal lights? They only work if the driver uses the turn signals, and in my experience, that is one area that safe driving declines as one approaches Manhattan. I get the sense that it's considered a sign of weakness (unmanliness?) to signal turns, much less lane changes, driving in the Apple.

Smart mirrors a little dot lights up if something is beside your car or just behind. Our explorer has them don't think it qualifies a expensive though.

[Likes2ridefar]

You mean those turn-signal lights? They only work if the driver uses the turn signals, and in my experience, that is one area that safe driving declines as one approaches Manhattan. I get the sense that it's considered a sign of weakness (unmanliness?) to signal turns, much less lane changes, driving in the Apple.

No i mean the ones with the cameras that alert the driver to the presence of something in their blind spot.

[Likes2ridefar]

Smart mirrors a little dot lights up if something is beside your car or just behind. Our explorer has them don't think it qualifies a expensive though.

yes I apologize for ignoring your fine american car:) I've noticed a number of fords with it too.

i wish all cars had it, maybe eventually!

[velomonkey]

Impossible that the barista was smug. I know who worked today.

And I probably know what time you were in the club.

And I bet I know what kit you were in and the bike you rode in on.

Other than that, I agree with your points.

Nice bike.

Not sure why I didn't see this till now - probably missed it as I was on my phone. The barista wasn't smug, he was cool - the air of the place was smug - it's always been smug - it's rapha, come on, just by being associated with it is smug - there is no way of getting around it. Damn, I ride a ti bike with campy - there are a TON of generalizations you could make about that. On some of them there is truth (as it relates to me).

The expresso was too tart, though. I'd take your offer up on beer, but I'm back in CT today. PM me if you want to meet up - I was at the old Rapha location I'll be back to this one. :p

[54ny77]

one of my favorite central park bike experiences is being in a race and getting pelted with bagels by fine upstanding youth (perched high on giant boulders) through horse shi! alley. it was so damned funny i was laughing mid-pack.

"sesame incoming!"

:p

[tumbler]

one of my favorite central park bike experiences is being in a race and getting pelted with bagels by fine upstanding youth (perched high on giant boulders) through horse shi! alley.

"Those kids with the spray paint, gotta love ‘em!"

http://seinfeldism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/kramer-speed-limit-sign-500x377.jpg