Question for the builders: odd looking welds on dropouts

[MorganColeman]

Hey Everyone,

I have a question for the builders on the board. I recently acquired this stainless steel frame and I noticed that the welds on the breezer style dropouts look pretty rough. The frame is stainless steel, so perhaps this is normal with this material. The pics are horrible, but it's hard to show details without glare from the mirror finish.

Couple things: It looks like the weld area goes right up to the very end of the drop out, even flaring out so you can no longer see the original border. The other thing I noticed is that you can see the weld marks on the inside of the dropout, as if they burned through.

Welds seem to look different on stainless than ti, so maybe this is nothing to note, just aesthetic. But to my ignorant eye, I wonder if these indicate a weak area. Any thoughts would be helpful.

Morgan

[Tony T]

The pics are horrible, but it's hard to show details without glare from the mirror finish.

Turn the flash off, take the pic in natural light.

[MorganColeman]

Turn the flash off, take the pic in natural light.

The flash was off and the pics from outside have more glare. I'll try and get my buddy's camera to take better shots.

[Tony T]

You'll get a better shot with a camera (notice how the focus is on the background objects and not the bike)

[MorganColeman]

Ok. Good camera. These show the area better.

[oldpotatoe]

Ok. Good camera. These show the area better.

Ain't a frame builder but pretty ugly to me and burn thru on the dropouts....looking forward to what the 'real' framebuilders say, particularly the burn thru. I have Breezer type dropouts on my Moots and you can't even tell they are welded on the underside.

[Dead Man]

Think maybe it was repaired? The crappiest welds I've ever seen on bike frames have been "repairs" by bike shops that should have their torches taken from them.

[Asudef]

I was going to say thats normal based on your description but that just looks like an inexperienced welder.

The weld will go right up to the border and sort of melt together, thats just what happens even on Ti or a proper weld. The metal has to get hot enough to penetrate through and join the two surfaces.

In this case, looks like they had it set too high and/or moved too slowly so his torch burned through the dropouts and got too much penetration. Its also rough and uneven b/c of an inexperienced hand. It takes a lot of practice to make small welds across complicated angles like that and also make it look nice.

I'm no frame builder but have done some welding in the past to understand somewhat how things work and appreciate the work of skilled craftsmen.

[ultraman6970]

If SS, then he can file and polish those areas right??

[Joachim]

Was it this frame?

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=154704&highlight=Psa+alchemy

[mike p]

I'm not a frame builder but I am a welder (pipe, structural steel and about anything else). That just looks like a beginner weld. Puddle size varies a lot and while on those hoods you'll be able to see some heat from the underside you'll see nothing near that bad! Too much amperage or he's not moving the tig torch fast enough. I can tell you for sure it's no Moots, Firefly, or Eriksen.

Mike

[Peter P.]

I'm no framebuilder either, but I wouldn't imagine that frame is from a well respected brand.

The dark spots from the backside of the welds-perhaps the area is oxidized because it wasn't flooded with argon during welding? Current too high? Poor finish work?

Is it possible the weld rod was of too large a diameter, so the radius of the weld extended over the hood of the dropout, slightly melting the edge?

Depending on what you paid for the frame, you may or may not have gotten what you paid for. For all we know those welds may be structurally sound but merely look like crap.

I'd compare your frame to other stainless offerings such as Firefly or Independent Fabrications. That should give you an answer as to what stainless frames should look like, particularly if you paid a similar price.

[christian]

I can't weld for ···· but that's too much current and not moving the puddle fast enough. When I did u-joints for the chute crank on my snowblower it looked about like that. Note that I'm neither selling nor riding my snowblower cute crank ever.

[MorganColeman]

Thanks for all your help everyone!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[Ahneida Ride]

I'd compare your frame to other stainless offerings such as Firefly or Independent Fabrications. That should give you an answer as to what stainless frames should look like, particularly if you paid a similar price.

Very True ....

I am no frame builder, but ....
I frequently visit the shop of a competent builder.
I've seen tons of welds, in Ti, Stainless, and Al ....
all done by a craftsman with 15+ years Tig welding bicycles.

I've never seen burn thru. I'd question their integrity.

[RedRider]

Not bad for a first frame. I'm sure this frame builder will improve over time.