Crashed frames from "trusted" members

[Asudef]

Anyone have the unfortunate experience of unknowingly purchasing a frame thats been involved in a crash?

In my history, I've encountered three. 2 of which I purchased since it was only evident under close inspection. Slight enough to look like imperfections in the paint.

One of these I purchased from a "trusted member" of a forum (not Paceline but another) and just wondered how to handle it.

[rustychisel]

difficult issue but clear resolution, insofar as you cannot 'prove' it was crashed, but they cannot 'prove' it wasn't.... trusted members being about as trustworthy as you can throw them, sometimes.

say you're unhappy, send it back, get your money back. you might have to cop the postage costs.

[Asudef]

Problem is I met in person and looked at the frame. It wasn't until I was moving the frame around while taking pics to try and sell it that I noticed something amiss.

Studied it up close, ran my finger over a few times and sighted it in specific lighting to confirm that there is damage.

Guess I have too much trust in people. In any case, if I can't get rid of it I'll just thrash the snot out of it.

[rustychisel]

ok, understand that, but doesn't alter the fact that in your opinion the frame is crash damaged (thus, creasing or weakness in tubes etc).

Ask and find out what a stand up guy this person is. There are plenty on THIS forum who would take it back and give you your money, no further questions.

[Asudef]

Thanks I appreciate your advice, an email was just sent to the original seller.

I posted this to get some honest opinions on how to handle these situations and most definitely did not do it to indict anyone on here.

In fact I asked here so as to avoid posting on the original forum.

[rustychisel]

I think you've done what you can. After all, if you don't ask you'll never know.

Best.

[jtakeda]

How long ago did you buy the frame?

I probably wouldn't take it back if it's been like 6+ months unless it's clearly evident you didn't build it up.

[Ken Robb]

I'm not saying this is the case but if you didn't spot the evidence when you examined the frame before you bought it and the damage is so slight YOU are willing to "ride the snot out of it" it's entirely possible the seller rode it as it is and didn't know it had ever been crashed. In that case he might think that you damaged the frame after you bought it.

Should I understand from your comments that you thought the price was so low that you could flip it for a profit? What material is it and were repairs made?

[beeatnik]

How can you be sure it's crash-related? The other day I leaned my CAAD10 against a mailbox and after 15 min it fell over. Worst dent I've ever put on a bike and I've been in 30mph plus crashes.

A few years back when the Cannondale Evo was first released I found a pristine frameset for sale on CL. The owner was a kid who bought a $5000 Evo as his first road bike. Only after talking to me for 15 min and realizing that I lived 6 blocks away, did he allow me to test ride it. Handed the kid my car keys and rode the bike a few blocks. First thing I did was flip the bike over and found some deep gouges in the BB (probably from numerous violent chain drops). Dont think this new roadie had any idea that he had potentially damaged his frame and I was willing to accept his story that he needed to size down (which he actually didn't but as I said he was pretty uninformed). Anyhoo, a few months later I did run into him and he was riding a smaller Evo.

YMMV

[CunegoFan]

What type of imperfections in the paint? Is the frame damaged?

What counts as a crash? I would not consider my ti bike as ever being crashed, but I have fallen several times while riding on packed snow and ice. I have also had it slip out from under me while negotiating a tight corner at about track stand speed on wet paint. Doh! If a bike gets ridden then there could be a wide range of incidents where a frame gets scraped here or there but suffers no damage.

[Neil]

I think you have to have a certain degree of caveat emptor in any purchase, but most especially in one for second hand sporting equipment.

You can of course minimise your exposure- but some you win, some you lose.

I bought a pair of Powertap equipped wheels from this forum - I paid a great price, the seller was polite, rapid to respond, and willing to post internationally.

A great transaction - but the wheels are now with Paligap UK as the torque tube went bad in a couple of hundred miles, which is going to double the cost of the wheelset to put right.

C'est la vie, I took a risk buying second hand and this time it didn't work out, but it won't stop me from other second hand purchases.

At the end of the day I'll have a fully functional HED/Powertap wheelset, which I'll be happy using long after I've forgotten about the unexpected $600 bill that they ultimately came with.

[Asudef]

Long answer but to address everyones assumptions:

I owned it for 6 weeks and rode for about 3 until I came across another frame which suit my needs better and was way cooler to me. To be honest, I even felt like I overpaid a little but it was a unique frame from a fairly well known builder.

Its steel and came with a different fork, which should've been a red flag. Bought with the intention of using as a daily since there were already paint nicks etc. so I wouldn't feel the need to baby it and not worry too much if it got stolen.

There's a little buckle right by the HT on the DT that you can see if you sight down it with a light. If thats not indicative of a crash, I don't know what is.

Before purchase, the seller confirmed that there was no damage to the frame and the only negatives were the paint nicks.

I said I'd ride the snot out of it not because the damage is so slight, which it may be, but because I wouldn't give a $#!t about a crashed frame that I got ripped off on and couldn't put back on the market without a clean conscience.
Caveat emptor right? My bad, my loss.

[joosttx]

I would venture to bet the seller didn't realize there was any damage. I would not inspect a frame at the detail you are describing. Sounds like the damage took you six weeks to realize it was there too.

If I were the seller I would tell you to get lost after six weeks. And think that you damaged the frame and now want to give it back.

One could read into your posts quite of bit and surmise that you are very disgruntled about the purchase.... Paid a little too much, found something better soon after the purchase, don't care if it's get stole cause it's chipped up.

I wouldn't take it out on the seller. Perhaps they didn't know either.

[Asudef]

I'm not taking it out on the seller, just upset at myself for not checking things thoroughly even though I've been through this before. I guess "ripped off" is a little harsh but I do feel cheated since there's now potential buyers I have to turn away because I can't in good conscience sell the bike anymore.

And you're right, the seller has no idea what had happened in the 6 weeks and he can choose to believe me or not but that was the series of events.

Theres no reason to make up stories here. People had questions and I answered them.

[joosttx]

I'm not taking it out on the seller, just upset at myself for not checking things thoroughly even though I've been through this before. I guess "ripped off" is a little harsh but I do feel cheated since there's now potential buyers I have to turn away because I can't in good conscience sell the bike anymore.

And you're right, the seller has no idea what had happened in the 6 weeks and he can choose to believe me or not but that was the series of events.

Theres no reason to make up stories here. People had questions and I answered them.

It's a bummer. I have been where you are in the past more than once. Best thing to do is not to beat yourself and do the right thing.

[shovelhd]

I think you answered your own question. It wouldn't be right to go back to the seller now.

[oldpotatoe]

Long answer but to address everyones assumptions:

I owned it for 6 weeks and rode for about 3 until I came across another frame which suit my needs better and was way cooler to me. To be honest, I even felt like I overpaid a little but it was a unique frame from a fairly well known builder.

Its steel and came with a different fork, which should've been a red flag. Bought with the intention of using as a daily since there were already paint nicks etc. so I wouldn't feel the need to baby it and not worry too much if it got stolen.

There's a little buckle right by the HT on the DT that you can see if you sight down it with a light. If thats not indicative of a crash, I don't know what is.

Before purchase, the seller confirmed that there was no damage to the frame and the only negatives were the paint nicks.

I said I'd ride the snot out of it not because the damage is so slight, which it may be, but because I wouldn't give a $#!t about a crashed frame that I got ripped off on and couldn't put back on the market without a clean conscience.
Caveat emptor right? My bad, my loss.

I know a guy with a DeRosa Nuovo Classico with a slight DT buckle from a head-on-er...and he road it for years..just for info. But I think it's the principal of the thing. Did the seller buy the frame new? Then he's not telling the whole truth..second owner? Maybe he didn't ever notice it.

[malcolm]

I know a guy with a DeRosa Nuovo Classico with a slight DT buckle from a head-on-er...and he road it for years..just for info. But I think it's the principal of the thing. Did the seller buy the frame new? Then he's not telling the whole truth..second owner? Maybe he didn't ever notice it.

I've sold a bunch of frames here and flea bay. I would refund your money, period. I would also never sell a frame or any part damaged that I knew of without disclosing.

Sounds like a garage door incident to me especially if no other evidence of injury. Maybe he didn't realize it was buckled when he sold he. I would still refund, just to save my reputation.

Not sure why I quoted the potato, but hey I could have picked worse.

[djg21]

Long answer but to address everyones assumptions:

I owned it for 6 weeks and rode for about 3 until I came across another frame which suit my needs better and was way cooler to me.

This sounds like there is some buyer's remorse. You inspected the frame and failed to note any pre-existing damage. You then owned the bike for six weeks, during which time you rode it. Only after you found another bike that you like better do you raise the issue of pre-existing damage.

I wouldn't expect a refund and would not even ask were I you. You bought a second-hand bike. I have never owned a bike that hasn't been involved in a least a minor crash, or toppled over in the garage, etc. You could have looked closer or had a good shop/framebuilder inspect the frame if you had doubts. Any purchase of used bike equipment is caveat emptor.

I've been really annoyed at some buyers here and on other forums who have bought used gear from me and then asked for refunds giving obviously contrived justifications when they found better deals, or had second thoughts about their purchases.
As an example, I sold a brand new, still in the box, shimano bottom bracket a while ago. More than four months later (no exaggeration), I get an email from the buyer demanding a refund because his LBS supposedly told him the BB was used and the bearings were worn. There was no way the thing was used or damaged when I mailed it.

[John H.]

20 some odd years ago my brother sold a Merckx- a few months after he sold it the buyer contacted him- concerned about a small buckle like you mentioned. You almost had to run your hand over it to feel it more than see it.
The only time it could have been damaged was a crash that my brother had early on in the frames life.
My brother rode it for many years (never noticing), re-painted it, eventually sold it, buyer rode it a bunch before he ever noticed.
My brother offered to refund the buyer- but the buyer decided that it had not broke under either of them and kept riding it.
For all I know it is still out there.
Same deal as yours- buyer inspected prior to purchase.
If it does not bother you just knowing it is there I say keep riding it.

[Len J]

If I sold you a bike and you contacted me 6 weeks later to claim damage that I wasn't aware of..... I'd politely tell you it was your damage.



IMO.



Len



Sent from my Surface Pro 3 using Tapatalk

[Asudef]

This sounds like there is some buyer's remorse. You inspected the frame and failed to note any pre-existing damage. You then owned the bike for six weeks, during which time you rode it. Only after you found another bike that you like better do you raise the issue of pre-existing damage.

I wouldn't expect a refund and would not even ask were I you. You bought a second-hand bike. I have never owned a bike that hasn't been involved in a least a minor crash, or toppled over in the garage, etc. You could have looked closer or had a good shop/framebuilder inspect the frame if you had doubts. Any purchase of used bike equipment is caveat emptor.

I've been really annoyed at some buyers here and on other forums who have bought used gear from me and then asked for refunds giving obviously contrived justifications when they found better deals, or had second thoughts about their purchases.
As an example, I sold a brand new, still in the box, shimano bottom bracket a while ago. More than four months later (no exaggeration), I get an email from the buyer demanding a refund because his LBS supposedly told him the BB was used and the bearings were worn. There was no way the thing was used or damaged when I mailed it.

Your frustration is understandable based on past experiences but please don't put words into my mouth.

I would've done the same thing regardless if a new bike came up or not. The situation was being handled prior to my noticing the damage as it was in the process of being sold and pics taken for interested parties.

I did not ask the seller for a refund nor do I expect it but it would be a nice gesture if they did know it had hit a pothole or curb or had been crashed and tried selling it off.

I already had a plan B if it didn't sell but I've got enough stuff laying around that I'd rather not. And fyi, I've never made up an excuse to get a return off second hand merchandise. Thats the reason I have a way more bike related stuff than I could ever need or use because better deals have come around after a purchase. Just that some have been sold, some not.

Anyways, theres not much left I can do and have ridden bikes with similarly worse damage and had no issues. I'll just list the bike as such and move on.