Spoke noise/twang... Safe to ride?

[xia_ke]

I've been lurking here for a little while now and have learned a lot from reading older posts. However, I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to by searching older posts. I have a 2013 Scott Speedster 20 and just bought a "new" wheelset. I picked up a set of Syncros RP1.5's from someone upgrading their Addict. The wheels needed to be tensioned so I dropped them off at my LBS and last night was my first ride on them. Right away I noticed a bit of twang from the spokes. I've never had this happen on other wheelsets, though I am a newb so my experience is very limited. I read a review somewhere a while ago on the Addict 10 where someone commented about wheel twang for heavier riders. At 180lbs I hadn't really thought of myself as heavy, though I know I can afford to drop a few more pounds. I ended up cutting my ride short before I hit the rougher roads (I live in Maine). Should I be worried about riding these wheels? Thanks in advance for any advice.

[AustinHorse]

assuming it's more of a ping and hasn't recurred too frequently since your initial ride that's pretty typical after truing for any weight rider. the spokes twist a little in the truing process; they're just untwisting. worth checking to see there are no new tension or truing issues though.

[xia_ke]

Hi AH,

Thanks for the quick response. I double checked twice while I was on my ride and also when I got home. The wheels are perfectly true and all spokes still feel evenly tensioned. I only ended up doing a little over 13 miles on my ride. While I did notice the spoke noise decreased over the course of the ride, it was still happening a little at the end of the ride.

[oldpotatoe]

assuming it's more of a ping and hasn't recurred too frequently since your initial ride that's pretty typical after truing for any weight rider. the spokes twist a little in the truing process; they're just untwisting. worth checking to see there are no new tension or truing issues though.

Well, if trued properly, there should be no noise on the first feet ridden after the truing. Is the noise consistent or just initially.

A decent wheel tech would make sure the wheel is stressed and the windout is out before riding.

If it's continuing..I would have somebody add some boiled lindseed oil dripped at the nipp/rim interface and maybe at the hub/spoke interface..and also make sure the tension is correct..

[xia_ke]

Hi OP,

Thank you for your input. The spoke noise was consistent around the whole wheel. It doesn't seem to be coming from just one or two spokes. By the end of my short ride yesterday the noise consistency was still there, though it was noticeably quieter then at the start of the ride.

[oldpotatoe]

Hi OP,

Thank you for your input. The spoke noise was consistent around the whole wheel. It doesn't seem to be coming from just one or two spokes. By the end of my short ride yesterday the noise consistency was still there, though it was noticeably quieter then at the start of the ride.

May still be under tensioned or something else. Even tension does not equal adequate tension. Might be something else....hub/cogset, even tire. Pedaling or coasting?

[dgauthier]

If the noise is diminishing AustinHorse is correct, the pinging is likely caused by twisted spokes unwinding. Oldpotatoe is also correct that a decent wheel technician would ensure the spokes are *not* twisted. The problem is that as the twisted spokes unwind, they unscrew a little bit, and that can cause the wheel to go out of true.

Keep an eye on the wheel and if the wheels are out of true once the noise stops, bring the wheels back and nicely tell your LBS about the pinging and ask to have the trueness touched up.

[ultraman6970]

Some wheels are just weak, do you feel the wheels like woobly (specially the rear one) when doing sharp turns at moderate speed??

[xia_ke]

So I went out for a moderate output (17mph average) 30 miler this afternoon. By mid-ride, the spoke noise was gone while pedaling easy. However, the noise comes right back when I try to put any sort of power to the wheels, especially when climbing while out of the saddle. This was still occurring by the end of the ride. I double checked the wheels and neither appear to have developed any runout. ultraman670, to answer your question the wheels definitely feel stiffer than the stock wheels. I tried to induce some brake pad rub both while climbing and under downhill cornering to no avail. I could do this with the stock wheels even after having them retensioned (same LBS, but different bike tech). Other than the spoke noise making me nervous, there is nothing else I can find to fault with the wheelset when compared to the stock set (other than the obnoxiously loud freewheel).

[David Kirk]

It may or may not be obvious so just in case it's not.......spokes are of course under tension and this tension makes for friction between the spoke and the nipple. When the nipple is turned one would hope that the spoke would stay put but this friction between the spoke and nipple can cause the spoke to twist with the nipple.

The issue with this is that when you twist the spoke it effectively becomes shorter and this can give the wheel tech the impression that the wheel is true when in reality it's actually not.

If the spokes are twisted and loaded up they will want to untwist and will do so once the friction between the nipple and rim is lessened enough. This is the 'ping' you hear when riding the wheel - it's the untwisting of the spoke as the load is taken off that spoke when at the bottom of the wheel.

The wheel tech should ensure that when he spins the nipples that the spoke stays straight or at a minimum he should load the wheel in a controlled way so that those spokes that are twisted can return to neutral. If he doesn't do this then the wheel can spin true when in the stand but once used on the road, and the spoke ping themselves back to a neutral state, it can come out of true. If really bad it will use will reveal that the spoke are all now too lose and they will need to be tensioned.

So - in my normal long winded fashion, there you go.

dave

[ultraman6970]

IMO that wheel might need maybe washers and straight gauge spokes. What the op describe is like the rim was just made of paper and is simply bending and twisting at the time of putting some power.

I've got wheels lthat does what the op says and is better just move them along and get other stuff more sturdy or go custom made with descent rims.

[Mark McM]

The comments about the spokes getting woundup (twisted) when tensioned, and then making "pinging" noises when the untwist as the wheel is loaded, are all correct. But once each spoke is untwisted, these "pinging" noises will cease. If the spokes continue to make noises long after they have untwisted, something else is going on.

One important question is whether the wheels make noise only when actually applying power to the pedals, or can simply rocking the bike laterally or jumping up and down on the pedals (without actually rotating the crank) can also generate the noises. If actual power has to be applied through the drivetrain, that implies the issue is in the hub/freehub/cassette, rather than the spokes or rim. However, if the noise can be generated without applying power, there are few things in the spokes and rim that can be looked at.

It's not unusual that as the wheels are loaded, they can bend or contort slightly under load, and this can cause small movements of the spokes - particularly where the cross. The rubbing between the spokes can on occasion make a bit of noise. A drop of oil at the crossings can sometimes quiet them down.

Eyelets at the spoke holes can also sometimes be a source of noise, especially if they are not crimped firmly to the rim bed, or if the have become corroded. Again, a drop of oil on the eyelets may also quiet them down.

If the noise is more of a "ticking" sound, there are a few other places it may be coming from. On deep rims, the long valve stems may wiggle back and forth, making a "tick" sound as they make contact with the edges of the rim hole. This can be quieted by stopping the valve from moving, such as with a piece of tap or a rubber band.

Another possibility is a sleeve or pin at the rim joint has worked free, and as the rim flexes at the ground contact point, the sleeve or pin may move slightly, generating a noise. A famous example of this is the Mavic Open Pro; pins are inserted during manufacturer to hold the rim in alignment when the joint is welded, and sometimes these pins work them selves free in use, causing a "ticking" sound every time the wheel rotates.

[xia_ke]

The noise coming from them isn't a ticking it sound. Not sure if any of you remember, but 25-30 years ago when I was a kid you could buy these little plastic balls that you would put on the spokes of your wheels. The balls could freely slide up and down the length of the spoke and at low speed would make this clang/twang noise as the wheel rotated. That is the closest thing I can think of to describe the sound. While I haven't tried hopping on the bike, I don't ride the smoothest of roads and during the latter part of my ride under easy pedaling, hitting bumps and cracks in the road (which I imagine would be similar to the load of hopping on the bike) did not cause any noise that I noticed. By the end of the ride I only noticed it happening when I really tried to put power to the wheels such as sprinting up a hill while out of the saddle.

[oldpotatoe]

The noise coming from them isn't a ticking it sound. Not sure if any of you remember, but 25-30 years ago when I was a kid you could buy these little plastic balls that you would put on the spokes of your wheels. The balls could freely slide up and down the length of the spoke and at low speed would make this clang/twang noise as the wheel rotated. That is the closest thing I can think of to describe the sound. While I haven't tried hopping on the bike, I don't ride the smoothest of roads and during the latter part of my ride under easy pedaling, hitting bumps and cracks in the road (which I imagine would be similar to the load of hopping on the bike) did not cause any noise that I noticed. By the end of the ride I only noticed it happening when I really tried to put power to the wheels such as sprinting up a hill while out of the saddle.

Hub/free hub/cogset. Mavic are famous for kinda a knocking sound when the FH body wears out.

[xia_ke]

Just wanted to post an update on this. For various reasons, I decided to bring the wheels to another local shop. He stated that the twang was two-fold. First, the spokes were not tensioned properly. Second, some twang was originating from where the spokes crossed on the rear wheel. The wheels were tensioned to factory specs and a drop of oil was added to where the spokes cross. I picked up the bike yesterday and got out for a quick 45 minute ride after work today including a surprise half mile off road which I did not realize would be ripped up for repaving. The wheels performed great and not the slightest bit of noise coming from them now.

[oldpotatoe]

Just wanted to post an update on this. For various reasons, I decided to bring the wheels to another local shop. He stated that the twang was two-fold. First, the spokes were not tensioned properly. Second, some twang was originating from where the spokes crossed on the rear wheel. The wheels were tensioned to factory specs and a drop of oil was added to where the spokes cross. I picked up the bike yesterday and got out for a quick 45 minute ride after work today including a surprise half mile off road which I did not realize would be ripped up for repaving. The wheels performed great and not the slightest bit of noise coming from them now.

And