OT: New MX-5 Miata

[fourflys]

So I haven't seen it talked about yet... thoughts on the new Miata?

I think it awesome and will likely be my next car...


http://image.automobilemag.com/f/78319702+w1280+h853+q100+re0+cr1+ar0/2016-mazda-mx-5-miata-live-reveal-front-three-quarters-04.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/aetbhg.jpg
http://image.automobilemag.com/f/80495910+w1280+h853+q100+re0+cr1+ar0/2016-mazda-mx-5-miata-side-view.jpg
http://image.automobilemag.com/f/78319786+w1280+h853+q100+re0+cr1+ar0/2016-mazda-mx-5-miata-live-reveal-interior.jpg

[tiretrax]

Best looking model yet and profile looks like the new Jaguar F-type, IMHO. Nice to see a stick shift, but I don't like the nav screen/iDrive wheel. I bet it's great to drive. Still, my wife will call it a chick-car.

[thirdgenbird]

The interior and side profile look fine but the front and rear look a little off. I don't hate it, but I expected more after their last few models. I bet it drives great.

As a comparison, I think the brz is a better looking car.

[Ahneida Ride]

Like the exterior ...

The interior is a bit toooooo futuristic.

Gimme the dash of an old 911.

[thirdgenbird]

Like the exterior ...

The interior is a bit toooooo futuristic.

Gimme the dash of an old 911.

Yeah, my interior complement was in comparison to most other modern cars. Again, I like the brz better. It's got a traditional layout that works nicely.

[ceolwulf]

I can't wait to be the third owner :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[FlashUNC]

I am extremely excited about the new model.

We sold a 2004 Mazadaspeed MX-5 before our move out here and that was an astoundingly good car. Loved to drive it even if I couldn't fit. Everything I've read about this -- smaller, lighter, etc -- has me pretty jazzed.

[notoriousdjw]

I'm with ceolwolf. By the time my kids are grown enough to make room for one of these it will be 2024 or so. Hopefully they will offer some models without the screen because it looks really out of place.

[Louis]

That sure looks like a huge screen to me - let's hope it can't show movies or TV sitcoms while in motion...

Oh, if I were to get another "convertible" it would have to be this:

http://www.carkeys.co.uk/sites/default/files/ar_4c014.jpg

Top speed 258 km/h (160 mph)
0–100 km/h (0-62 mph) 4.5 seconds
Type straight-4
Displacement 1.75 L 1,742 cc (106.3 cu in)
Power 240 PS (177 kW; 237 hp) @ 6,000 rpm
Torque 350 N·m (260 lb·ft) @ 2,100 rpm
Lateral Acceleration 1.1 g

[dave thompson]

Love the exterior, lots of personality, moderately aggressive and somewhat classic sports car. The interior...meh. Very bland. A deal breaker for me.

[Louis]

Here you go, Dave - the 4C interior. Plus, given how much you like CF, you can see parts of the composite body ;)

http://static.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery/public/4c-23.jpg?itok=Vfmv59Jx

[fourflys]

Here you go, Dave - the 4C interior. Plus, given how much you like CF, you can see parts of the composite body ;)


the 4C is nice for sure, but when you can 2, almost 3 Miatas for the price of 1 4C... plus there's something about a fantastic handling car that doesn't have a ton of power for me... I had a 99 NB Miata when I was in SoCal...

and you don't have to wait till the kids are gone, at least I'm not... ;)

[Louis]

plus there's something about a fantastic handling car that doesn't have a ton of power for me... I had a 99 NB Miata when I was in SoCal...

Agreed. Back when I had it, my '87 Spider was a blast to drive, and the 2L engine had enough power to have fun, but the handling was the real fun. Same thing with my GTV.

However, it is fun to compare the the GTV power curve to the Subaru (plain Jane Impreza, not the WRX, which in retrospect I probably should have gotten instead). The Impreza is advertised as having more power, but the GTV is lighter and pulls way better going up hills. Near my house there are plenty of short steep ones where the Impreza has to be downshifted to 3rd to prevent it from bogging down, but the GTV keeps going in 4th, with the rpm dropping from say 3800 to 3200, and happily makes it to the top.

I briefly considered getting a 4C (coupe) but other than the price, what really turned me off is that I just couldn't see myself in that sort of boy-racer car. Yes it would be fun, but still, not really the car for me, just too flashy. The GTV's perfect. :)

[fourflys]

I briefly considered getting a 4C (coupe) but other than the price, what really turned me off is that I just couldn't see myself in that sort of boy-racer car. Yes it would be fun, but still, not really the car for me, just too flashy. The GTV's perfect. :)

yup... I really like the Focus ST, but really feel I'd be a bit tired of it after a year or so... too boy-racer...

I've still got another year before I get to leave Alaska, so I've got time to research... :D but the new Miata just moved into the top spot I think...

[witcombusa]

As a 24 year NA Miata owner, over the years I find less and less to like about "more and more" Miata. It's the direction cars have gone. As many know the car was based off the Lotus Elan (except high build quality and reliability). Small, light, well balanced, raw, simple. This equals low cost fun in real driving. Can use 8/10th of it's potential on the way to work each day without winding up in jail.

Each time I've driven newer Miatas', while still nice cars, I am always happy to drive home in mine. btw, Mazda is celebrating the Miata 25th birthday @ Laguna Seca this weekend!

[jghall]

Certainly more aggressive looking. Kind of a S2000 look. I like.

Not driven a newer model, but boy was the older one a fun car to drive. Great balance of handling and just enough power. We'll, maybe about 20hp shy.

A small v6 without loosing the handling part would be killer. Though there are those who like to wind up the rpm's of a four banger. Another great trait of the S2000.

[djg]

I like it -- like the looks of it, in any case, and I bet it's a fun drive.

There's always the question whether one really wants a two-seater. For many, the answer is "why not," but for me, the utility of a back seat won out when I "needed" to indulge myself with a mid-life crisis car (with scare quotes around the word crisis as well I suppose). That, and the fact that I'd wanted something in particular for about 10 years. But the miatas were always fun and good values in a sorta classic type of roadster class of car, and this looks like a cool variation on the theme. Probably won't be too fussy either.

[malcolm]

As a 24 year NA Miata owner, over the years I find less and less to like about "more and more" Miata. It's the direction cars have gone. As many know the car was based off the Lotus Elan (except high build quality and reliability). Small, light, well balanced, raw, simple. This equals low cost fun in real driving. Can use 8/10th of it's potential on the way to work each day without winding up in jail.

Each time I've driven newer Miatas', while still nice cars, I am always happy to drive home in mine. btw, Mazda is celebrating the Miata 25th birthday @ Laguna Seca this weekend!

I think that is probably true about most obtainable sports cars. I used to be a car guy, not so much any more but my wife is still a Porsche fiend and currently drives a '13 C2S and in some respects it's her favorite and least favorite at the same time. Easy to drive, powerful, fun but almost not a Porsche. Her favorite was a '92 or '93 RS America also the least fancy or featured one ever. As they try to appeal to a wider audience they lose some of the original purpose of being a driving tool/instrument.

[witcombusa]

Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway, Miata 25th Anniversary weekend

[R3awak3n]

Its nice, I think they did a good job with the redesign.

However if I was to get a convertible car with similar dimensions it would have to be a Lotus Elise. You can get one under 30k with 30k miles.

http://remarkablevehicles.com/images/thumb/5/5e/2005-lotus-elise-03623.jpg/800px-2005-lotus-elise-03623.jpg

[FlashUNC]

As a 24 year NA Miata owner, over the years I find less and less to like about "more and more" Miata. It's the direction cars have gone. As many know the car was based off the Lotus Elan (except high build quality and reliability). Small, light, well balanced, raw, simple. This equals low cost fun in real driving. Can use 8/10th of it's potential on the way to work each day without winding up in jail.

Each time I've driven newer Miatas', while still nice cars, I am always happy to drive home in mine. btw, Mazda is celebrating the Miata 25th birthday @ Laguna Seca this weekend!

This next gen Miata is supposed to be shorter, lower and lighter than the previous gen. If that's not Lotus-esque, I dunno what is.

At least they've dumped the jelly bean styling.

[shovelhd]

I like everything except that pop-up screen.

[Ralph]

I like everything except that pop-up screen.

I'm sure the pop up screen and NAV is part of an option package. Or....it's where the back up camera goes.

[fuzzalow]

New Miata looks to be styled nicely, leaving the soft contours behind and in so doing, become less of a womanly sports car. The Italians are the only ones who can design voluptuous curves into a car and not have it impression as a chick car.

Never much of a car guy for the street, only for the track. Driving any performance car on the street is a waste of car and a chore. The roads are getting more and more crowded & congested. What are you gonna do with a fast car? Can't really drive it like it has the capability to be driven so it gets posed with instead. Such a waste.

[Ken Robb]

In June we bought a 2014 Mazda 3 Touring S sedan with 2.5 litre engine and 6 speed automatic. We are very pleased in every way. The drive train works very well and the transmission is totally controllable via paddle shifters but----it is so well programmed in auto mode that there aren't many situations where I feel the need to do so. Even in regular (not Sport) Drive if I brake firmly into a corner it downshifts from 6th to 4th and holds it as I accelerate out.
The build quality is superb. All seams inside and out line up, the doors clsoe with a Teutonic "Thunk" and there are ZERO rattles. The handling/steering feel is really good for a front wheel drive car.

We drove a similar car with the 2 litre engine and 6 speed manual. The engine is smooth and pulls well for 150 hp but passing required shifting down to 4th or 3rd. A similar engine in a car as light as a Miata should be very entertaining. Shifting the manual was as good as any I have driven and the clutch is perfect.

The pop-up screen has been a pleasant surprise. I have read a few articles complaining about them and I thought it was just so-so----until I learned that while it stays in one position the display can be adjusted via dash control to be perfectly centered for anyone's head position. I doubt that all writers read that far in the thick Owner's Manual.

Hmmm, I just realized some of you are referring to the large touch-screen that is immovable and I was talking about a smaller "head-up" display that rises from the top of the dash in front of the driver and provides info on speed limit, actual speed, navigation/turn directions.

[SPOKE]

The posted pics look good. Not a fan of the NAV screen either. Can't wait to see one in the wild....
I'm on my third miata and overall like my new one just fine but would really like more hp & torque.

[witcombusa]

The posted pics look good. Not a fan of the NAV screen either. Can't wait to see one in the wild....
I'm on my third miata and overall like my new one just fine but would really like more hp & torque.

That's fully available through the aftermarket, just add $$$

[jtolive]

Its nice, I think they did a good job with the redesign.

However if I was to get a convertible car with similar dimensions it would have to be a Lotus Elise. You can get one under 30k with 30k miles.


The cost differential gets real large though when it comes to repairs and maintenance. The Miata will much less expensive to get repaired and it will likely be way more reliable.

[fourflys]

I like it -- like the looks of it, in any case, and I bet it's a fun drive.

There's always the question whether one really wants a two-seater. For many, the answer is "why not," but for me, the utility of a back seat won out when I "needed" to indulge myself with a mid-life crisis car (with scare quotes around the word crisis as well I suppose). That, and the fact that I'd wanted something in particular for about 10 years. But the miatas were always fun and good values in a sorta classic type of roadster class of car, and this looks like a cool variation on the theme. Probably won't be too fussy either.


so I gotta ask, what did you end up with?

I really like the Cayman or Boxster, but the choice between a $30k NEW Miata or a $30k 6 yr old Porsche is almost a no-brainer for me... plus when you add in the maintenance costs (the reason I got rid of the Mercedes)...

There are a couple cars I'm still looking at, but the Miata is top currently... of course I'm hampered by the fact I'm on an island that only has a Ford dealer that pretty much only sells trucks and SUVs...

[SPOKE]

That's fully available through the aftermarket, just add $$$

Yep.....Kraftwerks just released their Rotrex supercharger kit!!

[fourflys]

some really good pics of the car here:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-mazda-mx-5-revealed

[R3awak3n]

The cost differential gets real large though when it comes to repairs and maintenance. The Miata will much less expensive to get repaired and it will likely be way more reliable.

Oh absolutely :) I think an oil change for a elise is close to $300 at the dealership. Toyota engine and all. I still want and always have wanted one.

[saab2000]

Never much of a car guy for the street, only for the track. Driving any performance car on the street is a waste of car and a chore. The roads are getting more and more crowded & congested. What are you gonna do with a fast car? Can't really drive it like it has the capability to be driven so it gets posed with instead. Such a waste.

I get this but as a former Miata owner, I also very much enjoyed the 'Street Legal Go Kart' aspect to it. I never felt the need to fling it dangerously or drag race it but it was a blast to just drive around. I loved the light weight and after I spent some money getting things brought back to life after a lifetime of autocross it was totally reliable and good to drive.

It needed more work I wasn't willing to do or pay for so I sold it but I'm pretty sure another one is in my future. I hope these stay south of $30K.....

Here's my old one.... I even had a trailer hitch and bike rack for it and took it to bike events. It was awesome! What wasn't awesome was the fact that with the top down and the bike rack installed with a bike it struggled with the aero drag. And putting the headlights up hurt it even worse.

But it was a ton of fun!

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5584/14972445300_78ba42228b_o.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5556/14972445450_f164d17e06_o.jpg

[fourflys]

Here is my '99 NB not long before I sold it (darn babies!)

http://threeflys.smugmug.com/Cars/1999-Mazda-Miata/i-xjmVtwg/0/L/DSCN1607-L.jpg
http://threeflys.smugmug.com/Cars/1999-Mazda-Miata/i-McKNZWc/0/L/DSCN1543-L.jpg
http://threeflys.smugmug.com/Cars/1999-Mazda-Miata/i-LChQX2W/0/O/DSCN1525.jpg

[Peter B]

I still have a 1995 that just works. The 1.8 was originally designed for a turbo application and is overbuilt for normal aspiration. What's not to like about a motor that revs in the 7ks, bulletproof trans, 50/50 weight balance, sticky tires and a good alignment? Go kart is right. Hard to get that thing to misbehave, easy to put a smile on your face. Stone reliable. Like SAAB I fitted a hitch-mount carrier and easily carried my bike to lots of doubles.

[texbike]

Mazda is celebrating the Miata 25th birthday @ Laguna Seca this weekend!

It's hard to believe that it's been 25 years!. An older lady I worked with at the time bought one of the very 1st Miatas delivered in Houston. They were so new at that point that the Mazda dealerships hadn't started to add the atrocious mark-ups above MSRP that became so prevalent for the cars. I was daily driving a TR6 and the lady let me take her car for a spin at lunch for a comparison. Wow! It was a REALLY fun car! Quick, lithe, fast-revving and very light feeling compared to the Triumph. Almost like going from a B-body Mopar to a 2002. :) All these years and I still haven't owned a Miata. I've been close a few times, but never committed. I'd love to find a nice, silver NB with a 6 speed and limited slip.



However if I was to get a convertible car with similar dimensions it would have to be a Lotus Elise.

Agreed. The S2000 and the Miata are great cars, but the Elise is about as pure a sports car as you can get these days for the price.

I'm sure the pop up screen and NAV is part of an option package. Or....it's where the back up camera goes.

Buying the base package should take care of the NAV and screen. :)

some really good pics of the car here:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-mazda-mx-5-revealed

Definitely a step forward in design. I see elements of the F-Type, S2000, Z3, and Z4. It looks good! I also love that the weight and dimensions have decreased. It looks like it could be a real win for Mazda!

Texbike

[fuzzalow]

I get this but as a former Miata owner, I also very much enjoyed the 'Street Legal Go Kart' aspect to it.

Agree with this in all ways, means and sentiments.

It is always better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Miatas, S2000s, BMW E-30s, 2002Tii, Toyota MR2s, all cars in the same genre. Stuff that you can enjoy based on the sheer drivability of the car and whose performance envelop you can actually press a little when the roads give you some curves and the traffic pattern will allow.

Driving cars like this smooth and fast require a little more skill than just wacking the 'go' pedal on something like, say, a Corvette. On the street, any fool can think he's skillful driving that kind of car because a car with a perfomance envelop that big will tolerate any idiot's driving slop. That car will never get out of shape on the street but it will tank-slapper like there's no tomorrow when the Sport-Assist CPU kicks in to modulate throttle for a right foot that isn't connected to a brain!

[palincss]

My thoughts on this, and every previous Miata: as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end, amen. It is a perfect thing of its kind, an instant classic from the moment the first one rolled off the assembly line. It was and is the realization of what every roadster that came before had wanted to be, without the issues such as electrics from the Prince of Darkness and the parts that would fall off as you trundled down the road. If this is what you want, you cannot find a better example. However, it sucks as a bicycle carrier, and so fails at the basic mission.

[djg]

Agree with this in all ways, means and sentiments.

It is always better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Miatas, S2000s, BMW E-30s, 2002Tii, Toyota MR2s, all cars in the same genre. Stuff that you can enjoy based on the sheer drivability of the car and whose performance envelop you can actually press a little when the roads give you some curves and the traffic pattern will allow.

Driving cars like this smooth and fast require a little more skill than just wacking the 'go' pedal on something like, say, a Corvette. On the street, any fool can think he's skillful driving that kind of car because a car with a perfomance envelop that big will tolerate any idiot's driving slop. That car will never get out of shape on the street but it will tank-slapper like there's no tomorrow when the Sport-Assist CPU kicks in to modulate throttle for a right foot that isn't connected to a brain!

Whatever floats your boat, up to a point, and depending what you mean by "whose performance envelope you can actually press a little." I'd say that, apart from pushing a car's ability to accelerate, you just shouldn't be pushing the performance envelope even a little on public roads, except in emergency circumstances. Miata, 911, Yugo, whatever -- if you don't know who or what is around the next curve, you don't test the car or the tires.

I don't have a corvette, but maybe some of us find ways to enjoy faster cars, off the track, on public roads, even without pushing the envelope, or trying to pretend to ourselves or others that we have mad skilz.

[fuzzalow]

Whatever floats your boat, up to a point, and depending what you mean by "whose performance envelope you can actually press a little." I'd say that, apart from pushing a car's ability to accelerate, you just shouldn't be pushing the performance envelope even a little on public roads, except in emergency circumstances. Miata, 911, Yugo, whatever -- if you don't know who or what is around the next curve, you don't test the car or the tires.

Most anyone with any track experience in a car usually knows to respect the lethality of speed. And would not take a risk in the presence of other traffic or not knowing what is around the next curve.

But I was speaking honestly here. Who that loves cars hasn't exceeded the speed limit for fun or taken on or off ramps at speed when clear to do so? If and only when it is clear to do so. And there is fun to be had inside the confines of a single lane when there is no other traffic - the control and slip angle is to the degree of 1 or 1 1/2 feet. Because the fun is not in some fantasy of a "Tokyo Drift" but the slip & bite at turn-in. This is only one example.

There are not enough traffic-free opportunities to do this in a congested public roadway system. Which is why my view that fast cars can't be enjoyed on public roads.

I don't have a corvette, but maybe some of us find ways to enjoy faster cars, off the track, on public roads, even without pushing the envelope, or trying to pretend to ourselves or others that we have mad skilz.

I am perfectly fine with how you enjoy a fast car without endangering others. I never said there was only one way to enjoy beautiful machinery.

Well, if you want to think I am pretending about what I know about driving, that's OK. I am not insecure. But maybe "some of us" have also been into cars and high performance driving for a long time and know what we are talking about. The fact that I may know stuff is not meant to put you on the defensive and I'm sorry if that was the result.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Ad70imIG6Iw/VAusaEdxUbI/AAAAAAAAAro/z-1Qcmqs6VQ/s600/fuzz-skipbarber.jpg
As evidenced by this worthless piece of paper, I've been into cars for too long. Now I live in a place where I don't need one.

[djg]

Most anyone with any track experience in a car usually knows to respect the lethality of speed. And would not take a risk in the presence of other traffic or not knowing what is around the next curve.

But I was speaking honestly here. Who that loves cars hasn't exceeded the speed limit for fun or taken on or off ramps at speed when clear to do so? If and only when it is clear to do so. And there is fun to be had inside the confines of a single lane when there is no other traffic - the control and slip angle is to the degree of 1 or 1 1/2 feet. Because the fun is not in some fantasy of a "Tokyo Drift" but the slip & bite at turn-in. This is only one example.

There are not enough traffic-free opportunities to do this in a congested public roadway system. Which is why my view that fast cars can't be enjoyed on public roads.



I am perfectly fine with how you enjoy a fast car without endangering others. I never said there was only one way to enjoy beautiful machinery.

Well, if you want to think I am pretending about what I know about driving, that's OK. I am not insecure. But maybe "some of us" have also been into cars and high performance driving for a long time and know what we are talking about. The fact that I may know stuff is not meant to put you on the defensive and I'm sorry if that was the result.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Ad70imIG6Iw/VAusaEdxUbI/AAAAAAAAAro/z-1Qcmqs6VQ/s600/fuzz-skipbarber.jpg
As evidenced by this worthless piece of paper, I've been into cars for too long. Now I live in a place where I don't need one.

No, I don't think you are pretending to know about cars. I just get my panties in a wad when posts start to smack of "we, the experts, deserve this, but the posers don't," as if a middling cat 2 really uses the full potential of a road bike in a way that justifies bike X for him, but not some stranger. Or recast the thing for a car, if we can still analogize. And that sensitivity, and the things that set it off, might say more about me than you.

Plus, ok, maybe I've drifted up above the speed limit once or twice, or just never saw any speed limit posted on that nice little S curve leading from the GW parkway onto 395 south in the no-man's land between federal land and the interstate. It will average out. I will take my 17 year-old daughter for a driving lesson today (kids today . . . hard to get my head around the fact that they are not chafing at the bit to get the license an hour after the 16th birthday), and I'll be shocked if we break 25.

It's all good. Peace.

[fuzzalow]

I just get my panties in a wad when posts start to smack of "we, the experts, deserve this, but the posers don't," as if a middling cat 2 really uses the full potential of a road bike in a way that justifies bike X for him, but not some stranger. Or recast the thing for a car, if we can still analogize. And that sensitivity, and the things that set it off, might say more about me than you.

Yes, I understand and agree with you that anybody who confers superioriity to themselves to say they warrant a performance car that another person can't justify having is just being a jerk.

But I'll admit I do have an attitude that is directed at drivers who posses the false idea that just owning the car magically infers driving skill to the guy who bought it. And now the temptation of all that capability in that car is somehow equally matched by the skill and judgement of how to use/drive it. And use/drive it they do while on the same roads as you, me & everybody else is on which, to them, is OK because they "can handle it". The same kind of ignorance, ego and blind stupidity that was in full effect for example with the driver that killed himself and the actor Paul Walker in a Porsche Carrera GT. And that was a good wreck in that they didn't take out anybody but themselves but even still, Mr. Walker did not deserve to die even if his driver on that day did.

Finally, teaching kids how to drive: I am sure that you would never entrust this teaching to anyone but yourself for your most precious of students. Because not only will the simple mechanics of starting, stopping and parallel parking be practiced but you also get to teach them judgement. A much more valuable skill because it allows them to manage themselves as well as anticipate the driving faults & errors of others and to stay out of their way. The unskilled are oblivious which is kinda a prerequisite to staying unskilled. You and yours I trust to be too smart to not stay ahead of that type of crowd.

[MrDangerPants]

As a 24 year NA Miata owner, over the years I find less and less to like about "more and more" Miata.

First off, nice Miata! I also agree about not really liking all the fluff. I'd like to see something like an "R" package as an option (like back in 1994). I like the latest design a lot, though. That being said, I don't think I'd ever buy one. Here's my 1991 (with just 72K miles):

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m31uhefjqG1rsielzo1_1280.jpg

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m33ddf6OcR1rsielzo1_1280.jpg

[dustyrider]

These guys are local and create impressive results. Flyin Miata (http://www.flyinmiata.com).

[fourflys]

These guys are local and create impressive results. Flyin Miata (http://www.flyinmiata.com).

yes, them and Good-Win Racing in San Diego are the two most prominent Miata tuners I do believe...

[djg]

. . .

Finally, teaching kids how to drive: I am sure that you would never entrust this teaching to anyone but yourself for your most precious of students. Because not only will the simple mechanics of starting, stopping and parallel parking be practiced but you also get to teach them judgement. A much more valuable skill because it allows them to manage themselves as well as anticipate the driving faults & errors of others and to stay out of their way. The unskilled are oblivious which is kinda a prerequisite to staying unskilled. You and yours I trust to be too smart to not stay ahead of that type of crowd.

It's all on us, to be sure. With this particular kid it's mostly an issue of judgment in context rather than judgment generally -- what to watch out for, how to monitor, anticipate & drive defensively, etc. She has a good head on her shoulders and is hyper cautious. Her mom & I have the ultimate responsibility to reinforce how to take the proper care (and how to relax to a degree, really), but as long as we're regularly involved, I think the addition of drivers' education or a good school is not necessarily a bad thing.