Campagnolo EPS, worth the weight penalty?

[earlfoss]

I am strongly considering getting Campagnolo SR EPS to build up on a new custom that is in the works.

Mechanical SR comes in at about 1.6 lbs, and SR EPS around 2.1 lbs. That's a hefty difference.

I was wondering if there are many out there with EPS experience good and bad? Is it's performance worth the hit in weight? Is durability up to par?

Thanks!

[Black Dog]

0.4 pounds is a weight penalty how? Two swigs of water? 0.2% weight increase in the combined bike + rider! There is no way you could ever notice the difference (well beyond the resolution of human physiology) and unless you are climbing 20km ascents at >5% then there is no performance difference that you could ever measure. So the question is about the technology and cost. If you like both then go for it, if not stay with mechanical. Both work just fine and are well tested and proven at this point. :)

[earlfoss]

Black Dog, thanks. My wallet is about to get lighter now too! Much better on the climbs for sure.

[maverick_1]

Pros
- Smoother and better ergonomics overall (ergo body is ever slightly bigger than mechanical, IMO better feel)
- Shifting from small to big chainring is significantly better than mechanical
- Shifting from the drops with the thumb shifter is easier
- Specifically on frame with complex internal routing, zero cable friction issues or sharp bend problems
- Auto trimming on FD

Cons
- For multi shifts up/down, it's not as precise as mechanical (imagine, push buttons vs ratchet system).
- Unlike mechanical, EPS is difficult to troubleshoot should there be an issue.

[Lionel]

Pros

- Smoother and better ergonomics overall (ergo body is ever slightly bigger than mechanical, IMO better feel)

- Shifting from small to big chainring is significantly better than mechanical

- Shifting from the drops with the thumb shifter is easier

- Specifically on frame with complex internal routing, zero cable friction issues or sharp bend problems

- Auto trimming on FD



Cons

- For multi shifts up/down, it's not as precise as mechanical (imagine, push buttons vs ratchet system).

- Unlike mechanical, EPS is difficult to troubleshoot should there be an issue.


Exactly my thoughts as well.

[oldpotatoe]

I am strongly considering getting Campagnolo SR EPS to build up on a new custom that is in the works.

Mechanical SR comes in at about 1.6 lbs, and SR EPS around 2.1 lbs. That's a hefty difference.

I was wondering if there are many out there with EPS experience good and bad? Is it's performance worth the hit in weight? Is durability up to par?

Thanks!

200 grams....3 powerbars, hardly 'hefty', with a 85,000 or so gram package, bike and rider and water and clothes and shoes and....I've had EPS for about 6 months, haven't needed to touch it, charged battery once. It is really keen. Firmly in the nice to have category, not needed at all particularly when compared to Campagnolo mechanical but it is really keen. 'Worth' is a big word.

[FlashUNC]

Was worth it for me for the change in front shifting alone.

[oldpotatoe]

Pros
- Smoother and better ergonomics overall (ergo body is ever slightly bigger than mechanical, IMO better feel)
- Shifting from small to big chainring is significantly better than mechanical
- Shifting from the drops with the thumb shifter is easier
- Specifically on frame with complex internal routing, zero cable friction issues or sharp bend problems
- Auto trimming on FD

Cons
- For multi shifts up/down, it's not as precise as mechanical (imagine, push buttons vs ratchet system).
- Unlike mechanical, EPS is difficult to troubleshoot should there be an issue.

EPS tells you where the fault is. Not much 'fixing' tho...replacing.

[r_mutt]

Would the difference between Chorus and Record be as marginal as Ultegra is to DA?

I want to make the jump but I'm trying to justify the price rationally.

[FlashUNC]

Would the difference between Chorus and Record be as marginal as Ultegra is to DA?

I want to make the jump but I'm trying to justify the price rationally.

I have Athena and played around with both Record and SR EPS. There's no functional difference other than weight.

I figured I could stand to lose another pound or two off my fat butt to make up for the difference.

[shovelhd]

I would not call the difference between Ultegra Di2 and DA Di2 marginal.

[tuscanyswe]

Would the difference between Chorus and Record be as marginal as Ultegra is to DA?

I want to make the jump but I'm trying to justify the price rationally.

Get my athena with carbon ut cranks instead. Yours for 1250 shipped + 25 in a us power cable.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I would not call the difference between Ultegra Di2 and DA Di2 marginal.

Apart from weight and finish, what's the difference? It's electronic, so how can shifting be different? Honest question.

[jtakeda]

Get my athena with carbon ut cranks instead. Yours for 1250 shipped + 25 in a us power cable.

shameless plug or super deal?

Pretty sure thats about $500 less than online prices.

[tuscanyswe]

shameless plug or super deal?

Pretty sure thats about $500 less than online prices.

Both i guess.

[stien]

I would not call the difference between Ultegra Di2 and DA Di2 marginal.


I'm legitimately interested to hear your thoughts on this, haven't seen anyone back to back them. 10s or both 11?

[r_mutt]

I would not call the difference between Ultegra Di2 and DA Di2 marginal.

Indeed please elaborate. From what I've been told, lots mostly a weight difference.

[ik2280]

Man, I'm tempted to pick up tuscanywe's Athena EPS group...

Can anyone give me some good reasons why I shouldn't ditch my Record 10 for Athena EPS (with a SR11 crankset)? Keep in mind, this group would go on a bike made for mechanical groupsets (585 Ultra).

[harryblack]

I am strongly considering getting Campagnolo SR EPS to build up on a new custom that is in the works.

Mechanical SR comes in at about 1.6 lbs, and SR EPS around 2.1 lbs. That's a hefty difference.

I was wondering if there are many out there with EPS experience good and bad? Is it's performance worth the hit in weight? Is durability up to par?

Thanks!

As others noted, what 'penalty'? Unless you're racing uphill time trials, there is no 'penalty.'

Not to be dismissive of an honest question, just was thinking about some of the Campy hem & haw, having spent a week alternating between bikes with Athena 2012 "Power Shift" and 2012 Chorus "Ultra Shift" (both 11 speed of course).

I guarantee nobody's performance would be diminished in the slightest if all they had was Power Shift; I don't care if you're racing, if you're doing 150 miles of steep rollers etc... They're just different, one is no better or worse, anyone who "needs" "Ultra Shift" to be "competitive" on whatever level that means tothem has more fitness/skill issues than any shifting system can compensate for.

As for EPS, I admire the engineering but otherwise have zero interest, regardless of cost. It's enough to keep my damn cell phone charged.

[FlashUNC]

Man, I'm tempted to pick up tuscanywe's Athena EPS group...

Can anyone give me some good reasons why I shouldn't ditch my Record 10 for Athena EPS (with a SR11 crankset)? Keep in mind, this group would go on a bike made for mechanical groupsets (585 Ultra).

Made the same switch myself on a mechanical frame.

Some downsides just in the interest of disclosure: Routing and securing the cables will take some work, but its totally doable. The connectors are waterproof.

And yes, you'll have to plug the thing in once or twice a year.

Other than that, I have no real regrets about the change.

[jtakeda]

Man, I'm tempted to pick up tuscanywe's Athena EPS group...

Can anyone give me some good reasons why I shouldn't ditch my Record 10 for Athena EPS (with a SR11 crankset)? Keep in mind, this group would go on a bike made for mechanical groupsets (585 Ultra).

Do it!

Sell me the mechanical group! ;)

[soulspinner]

In the words of Dazza (loosely paraphrased) electronic complicates a simple machine. Its what I love about cars like a Singer Porsche, a car that is raw and direct. Mechanical connection, audible and tactile feedback at its best. Guess Im a Dinosaur at 58.............but give me mechanical Record or Super Record.

[ntb1001]

I have just started using EPS, coming from Record 11.
I absolutely love it so far, and it still feels like a mechanical group as there is a real tactile feel to the shifting.
I would not hesitate to recommend it over mechanical if you don't mind paying the premium...the weight really isn't a negative factor..I don't notice the difference.

[Mark McM]

As others noted, what 'penalty'? Unless you're racing uphill time trials, there is no 'penalty.'

Well, if you want to get right down to it, there isn't much performance penalty between Dura-Ace Di2 and Sora, either. Sure, Sora is a bit heavier, not quite as smooth, and maybe wears out faster, but will it slow anybody down?


Personally, one of the features that Campagnolo EPS system lacks that would be a (minor) performance difference for me is the ability to do a multiple shift directly to the desired sprocket. I frequently shift two sprockets at a time (in either direction) and occasionally 3 or more. (I've timed it, and I can shift across an entire 10spd cassette in just over a second when upshifting, and still a bit under 2 seconds when downshifting).

A component company could, without a lot of engineering effort, develop an electronic shifter that was capable of this, but I doubt that they will. Such a shifter would take a bit more time and effort to master, as it would not be a simple "pushbutton" operation - and since the major selling point of electronic shifting is ease of operation, they will always default to the lowest common denominator of shifter operation.

[FlashUNC]

Well, if you want to get right down to it, there isn't much performance penalty between Dura-Ace Di2 and Sora, either. Sure, Sora is a bit heavier, not quite as smooth, and maybe wears out faster, but will it slow anybody down?


Personally, one of the features that Campagnolo EPS system lacks that would be a (minor) performance difference for me is the ability to do a multiple shift directly to the desired sprocket. I frequently shift two sprockets at a time (in either direction) and occasionally 3 or more. (I've timed it, and I can shift across an entire 10spd cassette in just over a second when upshifting, and still a bit under 2 seconds when downshifting).

A component company could, without a lot of engineering effort, develop an electronic shifter that was capable of this, but I doubt that they will. Such a shifter would take a bit more time and effort to master, as it would not be a simple "pushbutton" operation - and since the major selling point of electronic shifting is ease of operation, they will always default to the lowest common denominator of shifter operation.

Not sure if I'm missing something in your desires, but EPS can shift the entire cogset just by holding down the shift lever. It can be a one-gear-at-a-time system if you just punch the button a bunch, but if you hold it down, you can span the entire cassette in about 2 seconds.

[oldguy00]

Just to reiterate what some other folks are saying, that weight difference will mean absolutely nothing once you are riding.
There are many resources online (Analytical Cycling, etc) that will show you how much of a difference weight will make in your speed/time, and it is next to nothing when talking about a pound or so. That goes for 'rotating' weight too, believe it or not.
You may 'feel' a difference underneath you, but you will not go faster, uphill included, unless you are talking the Alps, and even then, not many of us are concerned about a few seconds here or there when climbing the Alps.... :)

[Mark McM]

Not sure if I'm missing something in your desires, but EPS can shift the entire cogset just by holding down the shift lever. It can be a one-gear-at-a-time system if you just punch the button a bunch, but if you hold it down, you can span the entire cassette in about 2 seconds.

How do I go straight to the sprocket I want? After the initial button push and first shift, if there a delay before it does the second shift? Do I have to time how long I hold down the button? What if my timing is a bit off - could it over or under shift? The Mavic Mektronic system also did multiple shifts if you held down the button. But it was just too erratic to be useful - there was a delay between the first and second shift (while the system decided if you just held the button down a little long for a single shift, or really wanted to do multiple shifts), and once it started doing additional shifts, if you didn't time the button release carefully it would end up at the wrong sprocket.

The mechanical system seems much easier - if you want a single shift, move the lever one click. If you want two shifts, move the lever two clicks, etc. No delay, no need to control the timing of the lever movement, it just does what you tell it to - almost like magic!

[FlashUNC]

How do I go straight to the sprocket I want? After the initial button push and first shift, if there a delay before it does the second shift? Do I have to time how long I hold down the button? What if my timing is a bit off - could it over or under shift? The Mavic Mektronic system also did multiple shifts if you held down the button. But it was just too erratic to be useful - there was a delay between the first and second shift (while the system decided if you just held the button down a little long for a single shift, or really wanted to do multiple shifts), and once it started doing additional shifts, if you didn't time the button release carefully it would end up at the wrong sprocket.

The mechanical system seems much easier - if you want a single shift, move the lever one click. If you want two shifts, move the lever two clicks, etc. No delay, no need to control the timing of the lever movement, it just does what you tell it to - almost like magic!

There's a bit of a learning curve with it, but once you get used to the "rhythm" of the system is works really well for the multiple shifts and you can get really accurate with it. Definitely takes much less effort than the mechanical version where getting down to dumping that 4th or 5th gear really put a workout on the ol' thumb or finger muscles.

If you're just looking for a single gear, the simple tap of the lever gets you there quickly. If you hold it down -- and it isn't long -- the system will start moving you down or up the cassette. I'd say the thumb shifter has a more mechanical feel and response, but even the movement of that lever is small, same for the finger lever behind the brake lever. I had it all sorted out after the first short ride really. I've found it really intuitive and mimics the mechanical features and throws some added features on top.

[gfk_velo]

If you know what sprocket you are on, and you know which sprocket you want to go to - up or down, just tap the lever the requisite number of times in quick succession - you don't need to wait for the system to complete a shift before making the next one. Do it that way and you'll go straight to the sprocket you want - or you can learn the trick of holding the lever the right amount of time.

EPS is quite happy to work both ways.

HTH
Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd
UK Main Campagnolo SC

[christian]

Excellent info Graeme. Thanks!

[oldpotatoe]

If you know what sprocket you are on, and you know which sprocket you want to go to - up or down, just tap the lever the requisite number of times in quick succession - you don't need to wait for the system to complete a shift before making the next one. Do it that way and you'll go straight to the sprocket you want - or you can learn the trick of holding the lever the right amount of time.

EPS is quite happy to work both ways.

HTH
Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd
UK Main Campagnolo SC

Yup, coasting to a stop, want to do 2 cogs easier, not pedaling, push shifter once, twice, pedal a little, there.

Easy to figure this out, a redesign is not required, IMHO. People complained with first gen di2, one cog atta time... They modded, easy to use EPS or di2.