Padraig RKP on D2R2

[ptourkin]

He has some opinions: http://redkiteprayer.com/2014/08/that-dirt-road-thingy/

[moose8]

It kind of feels like he insulted my mother. (Full caveat I have no basis to feel that way other than I love d2r2 - I'm big, slow and relatively unskilled)

I feel like the organizers give you the tools to succeed and it's not that hard to use them to have a great day. I do like the red kite prayer website though.

[christian]

Review: I hate my lace-up dress shoes, because Velcro is so much eaaaaasier.

[firerescuefin]

Review: I hate my lace-up dress shoes, because Velcro is so much eaaaaasier.

Christian...do you think the review is valid..or do you understand his perspective. The ride reports section on here makes me want to do the ride (like actually make the plans and travel)....his article...not as much.

[sandyrs]

What a worthless writeup.

[eBAUMANN]

Spoken like a true n00b.

If you care about getting lost, do everything possible to make sure it doesn't happen. That means buy a garmin and load the route. Then use the cue sheets if you MUST. If you get lost, its on you, not the ride organizers...

Reg EARLY. I paid $90 in november, not $99, sir.

BYOB. There has never been (and will never be) more than 2 guys at the tap. And if you do the most populated ride routes (100/115k), be prepared to deal with that crowd when you get back...or just BYOB and drink at your car while you relax post ride.

Sounds like this fellow had very high hopes and never bothered to ask all those friends of his for tips on how to make the most of the experience.

[FlashUNC]

tl;dr version: It's not Levi's Gran Fondo, so I don't like it.

[sparky33]

Review: I hate my lace-up dress shoes, because Velcro is so much eaaaaasier.

Exactly.
Seems a problem of point of view. If someone is used to doing gran fondo events where there a million feed stations, sag wagons, arrow markers and road-side mechanical aid, then of course you will be surprised with the lack of all that in a randonnee...it's part of the fun, and I like it that way. Good grief...get a GPS unit! Whatever.

It was a low blow to say the organizers aren't organized enough. I find it quite the opposite. Emails, excellent cue direction, tons of food...generally good vibe. Sandy and the gang are good people.

[sparky33]

Spoken like a true n00b.

Amen.
RKP writing seems less relevant to my cycling views every time I read it.

[moose8]

I would also think the thrill of having a brand new seven specifically built for events like d2r2 would make whatever happened that day an amazing day.

[FlashUNC]

Exactly.
Seems a problem of point of view. If someone is used to doing gran fondo events where there a million feed stations, sag wagons, arrow markers and road-side mechanical aid, then of course you will be surprised with the lack of all that in a randonnee...it's part of the fun, and I like it that way. Good grief...get a GPS unit! Whatever.

It was a low blow to say the organizers aren't organized enough. I find it quite the opposite. Emails, excellent cue direction, tons of food...generally good vibe. Sandy and the gang are good people.

I planned on doing D2R2 the year I blew out my elbow. Sandy emailed me personally when I emailed about my predicament, and offered to either transfer my registration to a friend or roll my registration over to the next year.

They make no bones about the fact you're flying solo out there and maybe you'll do some extra miles. But that seems to be all part of the fun and the charm. I have a couple buddies up there who camp out and make a weekend of it.

Still on the bucket list. One day...

[sandyrs]

Christian...do you think the review is valid..or do you understand his perspective. The ride reports section on here makes me want to do the ride (like actually make the plans and travel)....his article...not as much.

Don't let this whiny writeup that misses every nuanced part of what made D2R2 this year (and I assume every year, but I'm also a relative noob so I can't speak to past years) so great dissuade you. The ride reports on here give a good picture of what it's actually like. Super hard, beautiful scenery, really slow, and a total blast.

[tele]

Meh, one riders opinion.

My first and only time last year was great. I have ridden most of the route before but doing it as a ride with others was a great time. Did Murph and I get a little lost, sure but was it that big of a deal, no.

I cant imagine a better run and organized ride. This is the standard for me, period.

Other than the Ramble. :banana:

[christian]

I think his review is indicative of having done basically no research on the ride. The ride delivers what you'd expect if you read the pre-ride emails from the organizers and had, say, read one or two threads on an online cycling forum. In other words, it's an adventure-some ride on gorgeous dirt roads for experienced, self-sufficient cyclists. Sandy and Mary make no secret of that.

The canard about why it goes into Vermont is just offensive. Gee, maybe the organizers are trying to string together miles of great dirt roads regardless of geography.

I had a wonderful time. I got lost because I failed to read the cue sheet. I waited 45 seconds for a beer. I thought the pulled pork was only ok. Oh and I rode on great roads, with great people, on a beautiful day. It's the only ride I absolutely will not miss all year long.

[oddsaabs]

Well that's OK if it wasn't his cup of tea. It balances all the rave reviews the event gets from the rest of the cycling literati. Reviews like that might even help to keep it from becoming an event that every Phred has on his/her bucket list as a Must Do Event (TM). Bicycling Magazine had a review in last months edition that made the ride seem like a idyllic roll in the countryside where the author found nirvana and became a better person for even showing up. Having Padraig (who's writing I admire greatly) think less of the event just might keep some of the hype toned down and the entry from selling out in 20 minutes.

[4Rings6Stars]

I think his review is indicative of having done basically no research on the ride. The ride delivers what you'd expect if you read the pre-ride emails from the organizers and had, say, read one or two threads on an online cycling forum. In other words, it's an adventure-some ride on gorgeous dirt roads for experienced, self-sufficient cyclists. Sandy and Mary make no secret of that.

The canard about why it goes into Vermont is just offensive. Gee, maybe the organizers are trying to string together miles of great dirt roads regardless of geography.

I had a wonderful time. I got lost because I failed to read the cue sheet. I waited 45 seconds for a beer. I thought the pulled pork was only ok. Oh and I rode on great roads, with great people, on a beautiful day. It's the only ride I absolutely will not miss all year long.

Was just typing something very similar to your first paragraph. It's meant to be in the spirit of old school randonneuring (hell, it's in the name even!)... You have to try pretty hard to not know what you're in for when you sign up.

Idiotic article.

[weisan]

This pal used a lot of words to make ONE point...hmm......

Expectations.

Preparation.

Attitude.

[malcolm]

I think his review is indicative of having done basically no research on the ride. The ride delivers what you'd expect if you read the pre-ride emails from the organizers and had, say, read one or two threads on an online cycling forum. In other words, it's an adventure-some ride on gorgeous dirt roads for experienced, self-sufficient cyclists. Sandy and Mary make no secret of that.

The canard about why it goes into Vermont is just offensive. Gee, maybe the organizers are trying to string together miles of great dirt roads regardless of geography.

I had a wonderful time. I got lost because I failed to read the cue sheet. I waited 45 seconds for a beer. I thought the pulled pork was only ok. Oh and I rode on great roads, with great people, on a beautiful day. It's the only ride I absolutely will not miss all year long.

Never done it and probably never will, but would love to try it and the above is why.

Sounds like unrealistic expectations on his part and for what it sounds like he wants/expects there are a plethora of rides to choose from on the other hand for those that don't want that the options are limited and this sounds like one of the best to me. I read the reports every year and the things he complains about are the ones that would make me want to do it.

[mcteague]

Just curious what your $90+ dollars goes towards if this is a self supported ride.

Tim

[54ny77]

that dude increasingly writes, and perhaps rides, with his water bottle half empty.

i stopped reading his whining and pining a long time ago.

[john segal]

It goes toward preserving some of the most beautiful landscapes in this country.

[4Rings6Stars]

Just curious what your $90+ dollars goes towards if this is a self supported ride.

Tim

It's very far from self supported. Just doesn't have flashing signs at every turn and a personal chef waiting for you at the finish line...

http://franklinlandtrust.org/d2r2_included.html
http://www.franklinlandtrust.org/randonnee.html

[J.Greene]

That was painful. That's the kind of whiner you try to slip when he's in the porta potty or sandwich line.

[witcombusa]

He has some opinions: http://redkiteprayer.com/2014/08/that-dirt-road-thingy/



Who?


Never heard of him...

[velomonkey]

RKP is a far, far cry from Belgium Knee Warmers - leave Padraig and Remove Tony and it's a shell of a site which is RPK.

This is a "journalist" (his word for him, not mine) that wouldn't dare have anyone question Armstrong doping, then when Armstrong went and said to Oprah and proclaimed he did, in fact dope, Padraig from RPK said he knew Armstrong was on dope all along cause he saw his calf in a hotel one time (I am not making any of this up).

In sum - he is just not very good.

[layneo59]

$90 and it was worth every penny! I've paid more than that for other bike/running rides/races. Got more out of this than most of the other events I've been involved with. I would have even paid for that first beer it was so good.

Was a great day and I hope more people are discouraged to participate. Keeping it small is one of the beauty of this ride.

[sparky33]

.

[eippo1]

Funny thing is that he usually glows about it.

Look at his 2013 review:
http://redkiteprayer.com/2013/08/d2r2-2013/

Now he can't find the route and is upset. I made a wrong turn and ended up around 80 miles. That's part of the fun IMO. If he wanted to make sure he was always on the right track, he should have done the more popular 100k or 180k events.

[eBAUMANN]

Funny thing is that he usually glows about it.

Look at his 2013 review:
http://redkiteprayer.com/2013/08/d2r2-2013/

Now he can't find the route and is upset. I made a wrong turn and ended up around 80 miles. That's part of the fun IMO. If he wanted to make sure he was always on the right track, he should have done the more popular 100k or 180k events.

The 2013 review appears to be written by someone else who clearly GETS IT.

[AngryScientist]

the fact that he acknowledges that the ride is held to support the great cause of the Franklin Land Trust, and then goes on to bemoan the cost of the event over and over, including in the comments is just distasteful. "what am i paying sooo much money for if they cant hold my hand and serve me beer faster" - what a joke.

[eippo1]

the fact that he acknowledges that the ride is held to support the great cause of the Franklin Land Trust, and then goes on to bemoan the cost of the event over and over, including in the comments is just distasteful. "what am i paying sooo much money for if they cant hold my hand and serve me beer faster" - what a joke.

The beer line was only long (as in less than 10 min) long for about an hour. Then it thinned out again.

[velomonkey]

Funny thing is that he usually glows about it.

Look at his 2013 review:
http://redkiteprayer.com/2013/08/d2r2-2013/


to be totally fair - that's not him, but some other guy who writes for his site and is located in MA I think. It's just not a very good site, it's drama for dramas sake and the dude is just stuck on some things. Getting his hand held for rides he pays for seems to be one of them.

[merlinmurph]

The 2013 review appears to be written by someone else who clearly GETS IT.

The 2013 review was written by Robot, a regular contributor to RKP who works at Seven. Robot's review was even pointed out in the comments to Patrick's entry. Kinda funny.

As Robot so eloquently put it last year, “D2R2 is not a ride you bang out and then head home to mow the lawn. D2R2 is your day, and the nature of the riding, mostly up and down in alternately daunting and thrilling bursts, defies your ability to over-plan it.”

I was surprised by Patrick's whine. And it wasn't just one whine, but a series of whines, it just never ended.

I made a comment about what I like about the ride:
I like everything D2R2 isn’t. No mass start, no big promotion, no loudspeakers, no vendor area – just show up and ride beautiful roads.

When does registration open for 2015?

@tele: Hey, we missed you.

[RudAwkning]

lol at "Red Kite Prayer - The Soul Of Cycling".

[moose8]

This was in his twitter feed linking to that post:
"Road bikes on dirt roads. It's fun. They're even more fun as part of an event when the promoter cares."

Someone definitely woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I think if the people behind d2r2 didn't care it would not be the major success it is, raising money to preserve land and making everyone I know who's done it very happy (as demonstrated after hurricane Irene when riders donated a fair bit to recovery efforts to a part of the world most only ever visit because of the ride).

Way too much negativity in his article and it just makes him look kind of like a putz.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Haven't ridden D2R2 (on the list), but I found it funny he was complaining about the lack of street signs. That's not an organizer problem, that's a New England tradition. As a transplant, it drove me nuts when I moved here. I'd get perfectly detailed directions somewhere, only to find there are no road signs. Happens in the city, in the 'burbs, and certainly in rural MA. Welcome to New England, Padraig!

[FlashUNC]

Just curious what your $90+ dollars goes towards if this is a self supported ride.

Tim

The Franklin Land Trust, so they can buy and preserve more land.

[Admiral Ackbar]

theres also breakfast, snacks, lunch, dinner and a pint of beer provided

[R3awak3n]

I also had the opposite experience from what he wrote.

With a GPS its hard to get lost and they provide you with gps files. A couple of times I used the cue sheet instead and it worked well. Some people hate GPSs so you have the option which I think its great instead of having directions at every turn.


Also not so sure he is so pissed about ridding 90 miles instead of 70, he got more bang for his buck.

Also the beer line was hardly ever 20 people and it moved fast, I never waited more than 5 mins.

[velomonkey]

Welcome to New England!!!! Anyone in N.E. know this is a badge of a group ride. This road sign is about as good as your gonna get, cause not only is a town line, it's the state line from R.I. into CT. (yea, we got the rock, too).

It's the 21st century, deal with it or GPS up.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3913/14879766849_05794828b8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oESGhi)townline (https://flic.kr/p/oESGhi) by velomonkeys (https://www.flickr.com/people/88287752@N06/), on Flickr

[tiretrax]

I flamed him in the comments - what a tool.

[Bruce K]

Here's my take:

First year rider - will ABSOLUTELY go back

Toughest ride I think of done. Also the most enjoyable and the most fun

Great people, great route (100k)

The support was exactly as promised and as others have said, with the route loaded into my Garmin (I have a 500) and a few careful checks of the cue sheets I was able to navigate with no major miscues. If I added sny distance it did not exceed 300 yards total.

The post ride party was fun.

I would highly recommend the ride to anyone thinking about it (this means you Geoff! - ;))

BK

[Bruce K]

And by the way, if he thought the beer line was long at D2R2, let him try the PMC or other big event. He might have turned to a pile of dust.

I think the longest I edited was 4 people. :beer::beer:



BK

[MattTuck]

Well, I haven't ridden the ride, but 1) it seems his expectations were totally unrealistic and 2) just because you had a bad day, and have a blog, don't assume that the event is flawed. This 'I'm above this event' attitude is ridiculous.

Reminds me a bit of Cosmo's 2006 review of Battenkill (http://cyclocosm.com/2006/04/2006-battenkill-roubaix-report/), how I remember reading that 8 years ago is a wonder of the human brain. Another example where you have a bad day and attribute your poor outcome to others instead of yourself or random chance. It is a normal human bias to do this, so I don't really blame them, but it is good to take with a grain of salt.

Next time, bring a GPS -- or ride with someone who knows where they're going.

[pdmtong]

I expect more from RKP than that drivel

[Corso]

Hmmmm,

His group got lost, so big deal. Lot’s of others did just fine, so why blame the road signs?

Riding out of state was “odd"? I thought it was pretty cool.

No obvious sweep wagon? How about 1,000 plus riders, most with cell phones?

I was parked next to the woman who broke her seat, who told me the organizers bought one for her and had it at a latter stop. She had ZERO whining! Riding most of the day and those climbs with 2 broken seat rails, and she was HAPPY!!!!!

AND she was running around trying to figure out who to give a check to for the seat. Class act. The kind of folks I met all day.

I’ll be back!

[gavingould]

he was in a group of 8 and not a single one of them had a GPS with the route? nor could read the cue sheet/map? most comments here and on RKP didn't have the same issues...

he clearly thought it was going to be a gran fondo based on entry cost alone, as noted by other posters (and the constant comparisons to gran fondos)

i've done events somewhat similar out in the Illinois wastelands (though 99% unsupported) even at night... there are only signs at about half the roads. a GPS is very handy to have.

[eBAUMANN]

he was in a group of 8 and not a single one of them had a GPS with the route? nor could read the cue sheet/map? most comments here and on RKP didn't have the same issues...

I know all the people he name dropped and none of them would get THAT lost, as they are all d2r2 vets. I think he was probably following their lead for awhile, then bonked/got dropped on a climb, then made a wrong turn and got lost.

[mistermo]

This was year 3 for me. Once 100K, once 115K, once 160K.

I've never been lost, save for 3 miles off the course when I wasn't paying attention.

I could easily dissect his list of problems, but don't have the time nor inclination.

Controversy sells. This is why FOX News (and CNN) is in business too.

Here in Indiana, I've ridden the Hilly Hundred multiple times. As they claim, the Hilly Hundred is "Perennial winner of Bicycling Magazine and the League of American Bicyclists Best Biking in America Awards".

I can assure you that D2R2 blows the doors off of the HH.

Good job Sandy!

[nighthawk]

That was painful. That's the kind of whiner you try to slip when he's in the porta potty or sandwich line.

Awesome!

I stopped reading his whinefest after this line: "Why a ride meant to help Western Massachusetts might spend so many miles in Vermont is anyone’s guess"

What an asinine thing to say. I live in western MA and ride often in the area that the D2R2 routes cover and riding into VT is a fun way to pack extra miles onto a ride originating in the Pioneer Valley. Does Sandy really need to justify why the ride goes into VT? Sandy picks the routes based on roads he has ridden over his many years of exploring this area. He picks routes he thinks people will feel challenged by and enjoy the ride and scenery. The organizers largely have been successful in that regard.. and also in raising money for a great cause.

I'd think someone so privileged as to have a bike built for them for a ride would have made an effort to have a better time. OH right... he didn't do the research to realize what he was getting himself into, didn't properly prepare for the ride.. and then couldn't keep up with his riding company. Boo hoo.

PS. I'm just bitter because I missed it again this year.

[happycampyer]

I know all the people he name dropped and none of them would get THAT lost, as they are all d2r2 vets. I think he was probably following their lead for awhile, then bonked/got dropped on a climb, then made a wrong turn and got lost.

I was going to say, the guys he rode with are all D2R2 veterans, although maybe the 160km route is new, so they weren't familiar with it. In any case, the website, the emails, the lore, the name of the event, pretty much everything emphasizes that this is a randonnée. And people have ridden the even successfully following the cue sheets before GPS was widely used.

If there is anything that I can think of about the event that was even remotely disappointing, it was Mary mispronouncing "Zanconato" at the raffle. But really that was displaced disappointment that I didn't win the Zanconato.

[pbarry]

"...but for that much money, I have a right to expect that the organizer take care of me."

:rolleyes:

[ergott]

Wow, someone sees fit to write a blog about cycling doesn't understand what a rando is then complains about it.

Classic example of flashy, artsy photos luring people into thinking the writer knows what they are talking about.

[happycampyer]

Exactly. It's like not not knowing the difference between orienteering and a charity walk.

[beeatnik]

I know all the people he name dropped and none of them would get THAT lost, as they are all d2r2 vets. I think he was probably following their lead for awhile, then bonked/got dropped on a climb, then made a wrong turn and got lost.

Not sure about that one. The guy is a strong rider. He's probably done more climbing than all the guys he rode with combined. In fact, he almost killed himself in the Santa Monica Mtns.

[shovelhd]

I don't do it because I ride these roads constantly. It's a great cause but I contribute a bunch in land preservation taxes in my own town, a place that is much more at risk of development than any town in Franklin County. Lots of people I ride with do it and have a great time.

If Paddy spent hours riding with Richard, you can't ignore the fact that Richard is a promoter.

[marciero]

I think Sandy has pretty much achieved his vision for this ride, at least as he has articulated in the D2R2 website, interviews I have read, and from talking with him.
I agree with what others have said-aint no Grand Fondo, nor would we want that at all.

I would say it is pretty plush for the type of ride it is. The 180k had unmanned foot lockers with nuts, trail mix, water, and gatorade in between the manned food stations. This was essentially a one-water-bottle-need-not-bring-food ride.

[Peter P.]

Christian...do you think the review is valid..or do you understand his perspective. The ride reports section on here makes me want to do the ride (like actually make the plans and travel)....his article...not as much.

His perspective seems to come from someone who doesn't understand randonneuring.

Now that D2R2 has become so popular, it's appeal has extended into the ranks of, without meaning to sound insulting, lesser riders. That is, those used to fundraiser rides, centuries, and gran fondos. Unfortunately, D2R2's popularity has attracted the likes of those that aren't prepared for a major leap in self-sufficiency.

Re: Red Kite Prayer's other complaints:

The vegetarian not getting their chosen sandwich at the rest stop. - I think if you have alternative dietary wants, you need to be prepared for all circumstances. Regardless of that rider sending in their preference in advance, if they haven't been in those situations before and found a solution, they shouldn't participate. Yeah; I get the disappointment, maybe even anger. So separate the meat from the wrap and eat!

Mechanical support: It's a randonnee; you're supposed to be self sufficient. And if your frame pump can't get you up to satisfactory pressure that you feel the need to "top off" then you've got a cheap frame pump.

Sag: Break a bone; pile drive into the dirt- stop at the nearest house and call (there used to be an emergency number). My buddy drove sag with Sandy one year and they brought back a body or 2. But if this ride continues to attract suburban, gran fondo types, then D2R2 is gonna have to start having qualifying rides to weed out the century and gran fondo chasers.

The directions/cues: I've never used or needed GPS to navigate any of the 4 bigger routes and I've never been as lost as RKP and his troupe. A bike computer and a cue sheet is all I've ever needed. Oh yeah; and constant awareness.

Cost:No one can complain about it because you know well in advance what you're getting out of it.

[rcnute]

My six-day old is less of a crybaby.

Ryan

[Bruce K]

One of our group was the epitome of self sufficient

Self sufficient = unwrapping your bars, fixing your malfunctioning Di2, and re-wrapping your bars at lunch and getting it fine in time to eat and leave with the rest of your group.

No whining involved

BK

[Cat3roadracer]

My third year doing the 115k with my local gents. We did not miss a turn, did most from memory. Anyone interested on a guided 115k next year is welcome to join us. Send me a message a few weeks in advance. We only require pleasant conversation.

[Louis]

I think at least part of his reason for posting that sort of ride review must have been to be controversial and drive site visits.

For example, he's clearly going out of his way to find things to complain about: "Part of the ride was in Vermont. Wah, wah, wah!"

[christian]

I thought maybe I was unnecessarily harsh, so I re-read it when I got home. And no, it's still lunacy. Missed two of three food stops, complaining about the lack of a floor pump at lunch? No road signs. Surprised he didn't complain about the fact it was on dirt roads.

[Louis]

At least he didn't complain that the roads weren't painted with direction arrows...

If you're alone on a course and not sure where you are it can be annoying. I while back I was in the middle of a ride and between groups - the fast guys were up ahead and the slower ones behind me. I wasn't sure I was on the right route and a bit worried, but as it turned out it was correct and everything was fine.

But he was with a group. A) It's not that easy to get lost when you're with a group, and B) Who cares, you're all together. It's not like a pack of wolves is going to take you down and drag you off the side of the road.

[eBAUMANN]

Not sure about that one. The guy is a strong rider. He's probably done more climbing than all the guys he rode with combined. In fact, he almost killed himself in the Santa Monica Mtns.

Cool, so maybe he bombed down a descent ahead of the group and blew past a turn or something. To be honest, I had never even looked at this guy's site before this thread and the first time I heard anything about RKP was due to photos of that bishop he got recently.

Either way, not really a fan of his...

[pbarry]

I think at least part of his reason for posting that sort of ride review must have been to be controversial and drive site visits.

For example, he's clearly going out of his way to find things to complain about: "Part of the ride was in Vermont. Wah, wah, wah!"

Excellent point, Louis. My last visit, (but far from my first there), was today.

[mcteague]

The Franklin Land Trust, so they can buy and preserve more land.

Thanks. Sounds like a good cause.

Tim

[bcgav]

From his latest comment:

I enjoyed my ride and it mystifies me that so many readers keep missing that.

He's clueless if he doesn't understand that his statements including this one are so idiotic (emphasis mine):

The serenity and enjoyment from this kind of riding is dynamite, but for that much money, I have a right to expect that the organizer will take care of me.

It's a Randonnee, with most of the registration fee being a donation to FLT, but it sounds like he was expecting something like this instead:

http://thekarmadayspa.com/images/contentImages/rituals2.jpg

[merlinmurph]

OK, I'll stick my neck out.

I visit RKP regularly. Patrick is a fantastic writer who captures the soul of cycling. Every time I read one of his pieces, it puts a smile on my face. Really. I knew he was going to be at D2R2 and was looking for him after the ride, even though I had no idea what he looked like. I wanted to meet him, shake his hand, and wish him well. I have a lot of respect for him.

Which is more the reason his D2R2 commentary really baffles me. It didn't sound like the same guy. Maybe he was jet-lagged. In the comments, he keeps insisting he had a great ride, but when I re-read the article, it sure doesn't sound like it with all the whining.

Regardless, I'm going to give him a mulligan. I'm going to keep visiting RKP.

Enjoy your ride,
Murph

[witcombusa]

OK, I'll stick my neck out.

I visit RKP regularly. Patrick is a fantastic writer who captures the soul of cycling. Every time I read one of his pieces, it puts a smile on my face. Really. I knew he was going to be at D2R2 and was looking for him after the ride, even though I had no idea what he looked like. I wanted to meet him, shake his hand, and wish him well. I have a lot of respect for him.

Which is more the reason his D2R2 commentary really baffles me. It didn't sound like the same guy. Maybe he was jet-lagged. In the comments, he keeps insisting he had a great ride, but when I re-read the article, it sure doesn't sound like it with all the whining.

Regardless, I'm going to give him a mulligan. I'm going to keep visiting RKP.

Enjoy your ride,
Murph



If he can't enjoy D2R2, he has absolutely no idea what the "soul of cycling" is...

[R2D2]

I guess he won't be at PBP or any real brevets.

[bcgav]

He does the ride and totally craps on the organizer in his post-ride report on a fairly popular website. Did he even try to meet up with Sandy or Mary on the day of the event? As far as I can tell, his only attempt at communication was an email (his first) asking a stupid question about why the ride goes into VT...

There was no constructive criticism in that article, and he didn't give Sandy and Mary a chance to respond to his trivial gripes. No class. That article does a disservice to his readership IMHO. He was caught up in his own little world of unrealistic expectations and failed to capture the spirit of the day that the other 99.9% of riders were experiencing. Instead of rushing to hit the publish button to get page views, he should have taken a deep breath to reconsidered why he was disappointed with the event organization.

[velomonkey]

I visit RKP regularly. Patrick is a fantastic writer who captures the soul of cycling. Every time I read one of his pieces, it puts a smile on my face. Really.

Really?!?! I stopped reading him when he said he knew Lance was doping cause he saw his calf in a hotel lobby. The guy occasionally writes OK, not great, but OK. He states things as an absolute: like a carbon frame having paint means that, of course, it's gonna ride different!!!! Or he uses elevated bars to get more power on climbs. There was one blow up over the wheels Conti used as compared to Armstrong while on Astana and even in the face of photographic proof he wouldn't admit his post was 100% wrong.

Look at him now - "I never said I expected anything, I never said it wasn't fun." Um, yes, yes you did.

I'll give him this - now here is what's coming - bet your bottom dollar on it, some post about how even though it wasn't popular what he wrote, he wont sacrifice his journalistic integrity to be popular. BARF.

I don't know what the soul of cycling is, but I know it's not him. Go read Steve Tillfords site - way, way, way better and Steve calls it right almost EVERY time.

[velomonkey]

oh, wait - just went to the site and he posted this gem.

"At this point I’m tired of the subject, tired of the debate. The only thing I have left to say is to reiterate that I really didn’t have a bad time. I enjoyed my ride and it mystifies me that so many readers keep missing that."

Whadda fool. You know all those threads going on about biker attitude . . . well here you go.

[R2D2]

If he can't enjoy D2R2, he has absolutely no idea what the "soul of cycling" is...

+1
Hard men are the soul of cycling.

[witcombusa]

+1
Hard men are the soul of cycling.

and Women! Let's not leave the ladies out, great to see more of them at this ride each year (and NOT whining like this guy)

[FastforaSlowGuy]

If he can't enjoy D2R2, he has absolutely no idea what the "soul of cycling" is...

Sorry, but this is crazy wrong. The beauty of cycling is that it encompasses so many things. Long rides on hilly dirt roads is one of them ... but not the only one.

[FlashUNC]

oh, wait - just went to the site and he posted this gem.

"At this point I’m tired of the subject, tired of the debate. The only thing I have left to say is to reiterate that I really didn’t have a bad time. I enjoyed my ride and it mystifies me that so many readers keep missing that."

Whadda fool. You know all those threads going on about biker attitude . . . well here you go.

Maybe it was the patroinizing headline, the insults to the organizers and then comparing the event as a whole to a brainless hot girl.

Doesn't help he doubled down by saying everyone wasn't reading it right. We are. You clearly wrote it wrong if you meant to communicate you had fun, but some minor quibbles. Such a patronizing walkback in its own right.

[R2D2]

and Women! Let's not leave the ladies out, great to see more of them at this ride each year (and NOT whining like this guy)

That's a given. There is no man w/o woman.

[witcombusa]

Sorry, but this is crazy wrong. The beauty of cycling is that it encompasses so many things. Long rides on hilly dirt roads is one of them ... but not the only one.

I simply said "If he can't enjoy D2R2", not that IT was the soul of cycling.

[oldpotatoe]

He has some opinions: http://redkiteprayer.com/2014/08/that-dirt-road-thingy/

Hmmmm, never done it but not sure what the guy expected. Methinks a decent GPS was in order and a little self sufficientcy was in order, food, pump and beer wise. Sounds pricy but if it seems like too much $, don't ride. Sounds like most of the $ went to the 'cause', if ya expect a 'hold yer hand' ride, well. Sounds like fun tho, the ride. Kinda an adventure for the day, a scavenger hunt type ride. I can imagine some video of the less pissed off riders would suit a Rapha video.

[sitzmark]

Haven't done it, but ride buddy did the 180km this year for his first attempt and couldn't have been happier. The majority opinion seems to be opposite from the blogger's.

[happycampyer]

Although I shouldn't go back to read the comments which only serves to increase his hit count, I find his peevish responses are even more nauseating than the blog. Distilling it down, one of his main complaints is that the event isn't a good value. I personally find that ironic in that each year I make a donation to the FLT that is multiples of the registration out of a sense that I get way more out of the event than the cost of registration.

If there is a way to channel Red Kite Peeve's infantile narcissism into a positive, I encourage everyone who feels differently to make a contribution to the FLT to support their cause and as a sign of appreciation for everything they do to make the event so extraordinary.

[witcombusa]

Hmmmm, never done it but not sure what the guy expected. Methinks a decent GPS was in order and a little self sufficientcy was in order, food, pump and beer wise. Sounds pricy but if it seems like too much $, don't ride. Sounds like most of the $ went to the 'cause', if ya expect a 'hold yer hand' ride, well. Sounds like fun tho, the ride. Kinda an adventure for the day, a scavenger hunt type ride. I can imagine some video of the less pissed off riders would suit a Rapha video.


No GPS is required (unless you just want one). The cue sheets are very good and the full map (available at reg.) shows you the bigger picture if you aren't paying attention and go astray or want to bail.

No excuses permitted.

"There's no crying in rando" :banana:

[e-RICHIE]

<cut> I make a donation to the FLT that is multiples of the registration out of a sense that I get way more out of the event than the cost of registration.


Thank you for that atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool:;):)
:cool::p;)
;):):p

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I simply said "If he can't enjoy D2R2", not that IT was the soul of cycling.

It takes a lot of hair splitting to get where you're going. RKP's "soul of cycling" tagline is sort of ridiculous, but in any event, knowing how to enjoy one type of ride or another is not a prerequisite. People lionize D2R2, but it's just another event. A special one for many people, but it won't be everyone's cuppa tea. Plenty of people will try rides like this and come back saying "meh, I'd rather do anything else." We should be okay with that.

All that said, anyone with their head in the sport should KNOW what D2R2 is and isn't. His mistake was failing to do his homework ahead of time, and then blaming the organizers for not putting on the event he THOUGHT it should be.

[moose8]

oh, wait - just went to the site and he posted this gem.

"At this point I’m tired of the subject, tired of the debate. The only thing I have left to say is to reiterate that I really didn’t have a bad time. I enjoyed my ride and it mystifies me that so many readers keep missing that."

Whadda fool. You know all those threads going on about biker attitude . . . well here you go.

I like the feigned "mystification." He basically criticized many of things people like about d2r2 (a lot of the fee goes to a charity, there is no hand holding, you have to know how to read a cue sheet, there are ride options for everyone, the organizers as far as I know have never been anything but completely nice, genuine people with less than zero attitude so it's super welcoming) and then acts astonished when people thinks he's being a bit of a jerk about it. I particularly didn't get the criticism of too many route choices. The narrow dirt roads are way less crowded with the multiple routes even though ridership keeps going up.

[moose8]

I can imagine some video of the less pissed off riders would suit a Rapha video.

You have an accurate imagination: http://vimeo.com/m/14816310

http://pages.rapha.cc/rides/d2r2

[rwsaunders]

It's tough when your writings don't align with the beliefs of the masses and there are probably better ways to voice your criticism of the ride sponsor...such as contacting him directly and giving him a chance to respond. But that's so '90's.

However, the author runs a business of writing about all things cycling and his article sure brought an additional influx of readers to his site, as well as some additional exposure for his advertisers. I haven't been on the RKP site for a long time and this thread took me there.

My only complaint since the transition from Belgium Knee Warmers to RKP is that the BKW water bottles were always sold out and when RKP came along, that sealed the fate of me finding any of those bottles...they were pretty cool IMHO. :cool:

[oldpotatoe]

No GPS is required (unless you just want one). The cue sheets are very good and the full map (available at reg.) shows you the bigger picture if you aren't paying attention and go astray or want to bail.

No excuses permitted.

"There's no crying in rando" :banana:

There ya go...seems kinda like L' Roica w/o the old bikes. Think my Moots with Pave tires and a tailgator would be well suited to this.

[echelon_john]

It still pisses me off that it was called "Belgium Knee Warmers" instead of the (grammatically correct and equally descriptive) "Belgian Knee Warmers."

[happycampyer]

Thank you for that atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool:;):)
:cool::p;)
;):):p
as you would say, fcfra

[R2D2]

.......

"There's no crying in rando" :banana:

I cried once for a few minutes until lowered into a hot bath with cold champagne.

[cfox]

It still pisses me off that it was called "Belgium Knee Warmers" instead of the (grammatically correct and equally descriptive) "Belgian Knee Warmers."

that wasn't a mistake: it's supposed to be bad Flemish to English translation

I still have a bunch of those BKW bottles. I think they are cool.

[raygunner]

Why did I waste my time reading that post!?

I traveled from Chicago to do the ride & hands down it was the best "organized" ride I've ever done. From the people, the roads, the weather & the bikes....great stuff!

Hell, and that beer at the People's Pint was pretty tasty too!

I had a great time & really can't wait to visit those roads again.

[christian]

Distilling it down, one of his main complaints is that the event isn't a good value. I personally find that ironic in that each year I make a donation to the FLT that is multiples of the registration out of a sense that I get way more out of the event than the cost of registration.I agree. Every single organized ride I've ever done, save one, I end the day thinking, "Wow, that ride would've been better if I just loaded up some bottles and food and went with my friends, instead of sharing the road with hundreds of other cyclists and paid for the privilege!"

The only exception is D2R2. D2R2 has managed to bottle some ineffable camraderie and pure childlike fun, despite (?) being an "organized" ride. I think that's remarkable, and worth the price of admission for me.

[ptourkin]

It's an opinion. It's okay to disagree with it without name calling or "I'm never going to that site again!" Patrick has written some good things on that site and has brought in other quality content, like Tim's TdF coverage. There are plenty of other places I go where I don't agree with every word.

I agree with much of what he wrote today about the Olin incident: http://redkiteprayer.com/2014/08/the-second-class-citizen/

[Charles M]

Yeah, +1...

I read that place regularly. I prefer that to the regurg you get from most of the web...

And.

The one time I've been there for that ride, I thought the exact same thing as he did... I don't mind hitting a map, and neither do the guys he was riding with... That wasn't a no name group of puffs he was riding with and they didn't fare well.

I've had a couple of other people that went tell me the exact same thing.

I have no emotional tie to the ride organizers but if I did, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them that the route at least needs the basics... I've heard more minus that plus and it's a fantastic part of the country to ride and a great cause...


Doing the kings clothes and acting like there are no issues doesn't help the ride (but in fairness maybe they want it that way).


Days end, RKP wrote what I experienced and what I've heard from others that don't live up there and all are well versed at riding away from home quite a bit.

[witcombusa]

Yeah, +1...

I read that place regularly. I prefer that to the regurg you get from most of the web...

And.

The one time I've been there for that ride, I thought the exact same thing as he did... I don't mind hitting a map, and neither do the guys he was riding with... That wasn't a no name group of puffs he was riding with and they didn't fare well.

I've had a couple of other people that went tell me the exact same thing.

I have no emotional tie to the ride organizers but if I did, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them that the route at least needs the basics... I've heard more minus that plus and it's a fantastic part of the country to ride and a great cause...


Doing the kings clothes and acting like there are no issues doesn't help the ride (but in fairness maybe they want it that way).


Days end, RKP wrote what I experienced and what I've heard from others that don't live up there and all are well versed at riding away from home quite a bit.


Tell me again what the issues are? Not being able to read a cue sheet? Not having momma there to hold your hand?

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Yeah, +1...

I read that place regularly. I prefer that to the regurg you get from most of the web...

And.

The one time I've been there for that ride, I thought the exact same thing as he did... I don't mind hitting a map, and neither do the guys he was riding with... That wasn't a no name group of puffs he was riding with and they didn't fare well.

I've had a couple of other people that went tell me the exact same thing.

I have no emotional tie to the ride organizers but if I did, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them that the route at least needs the basics... I've heard more minus that plus and it's a fantastic part of the country to ride and a great cause...


Doing the kings clothes and acting like there are no issues doesn't help the ride (but in fairness maybe they want it that way).


Days end, RKP wrote what I experienced and what I've heard from others that don't live up there and all are well versed at riding away from home quite a bit.

I think you should google "randonee" and then weigh in. It's different than a century in important ways. Those things are only "issues" if riders aren't given fair warning - which they are.

[AngryScientist]

It's an opinion. It's okay to disagree with it without name calling or "I'm never going to that site again!" Patrick has written some good things on that site and has brought in other quality content, like Tim's TdF coverage. There are plenty of other places I go where I don't agree with every word.

I agree with much of what he wrote today about the Olin incident: http://redkiteprayer.com/2014/08/the-second-class-citizen/

sure its OK to have an opinion, but when he attacks the organizers as doing a terrible job, and a cause as being too expensive, that's offensive.

[velomonkey]

This is right from his site on a review of the SL3

"Paint, as I’ve mentioned previously, can add 100 to 120 grams of non-structural weight to a bike. All it does is deaden the feel of the bike. On a descent I want maximum feedback, which is why I’ve found I prefer matte-finish bikes."

You gotta be kidding me. Sucker born every minute I guess.

[PaMtbRider]

I wonder who the target audience for RKP is. If the majority of his readership is the century / Gran Fondo crowd at least he gave them an honest idea of what to expect at D2R2.
As others have said, different rides will appeal to different people. He had some expectations that were not met, and voiced his disappointment. I am not saying his expectations were realistic, or he voiced his opinion in the most constructive manner. Maybe the organizers can take all the talk this has generated and use it to improve the ride in the future. I am sure many of you are ready to chime in and say don't change a thing. I don't know what the organizers goals for attendance and fundraising are. If they want to continue to grow the event some of his "complaints" might warrant future consideration.

FWIW, I have never ridden D2R2, but have only ever heard people praise what a wonderful ride it is. I hope I get a chance to ride D2R2 someday. I'll try not to get lost, and won't cry if I do.

[CNY rider]

FWIW, I have never ridden D2R2, but have only ever heard people praise what a wonderful ride it is. I hope I get a chance to ride D2R2 someday. I'll try not to get lost, and won't cry if I do.

Take Dirtphalt, make it a little longer, add a cue sheet and nice folks who bake cookies, hand out peaches and snacks, and work hard to both make it fun and to raise money for a worthy cause.
There's nothing not to love.:)

[goonster]

"There's no crying in rando"
Uh . . . yeah, there is (usually beyond 24 hours). Most of it can be blamed on fatigue and low blood sugar.

But, we don't talk about it to people who wouldn't understand . . .

[Kirk Pacenti]

Now my interest is piqued; I may have to make my way up to MA for next year's D2R2.

It will be good training for the big ride (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqCYE-Smqf4#t=58) I have planned in 18 months.

Cheers,
KP

[shovelhd]

That's a big ride.

[Kirk Pacenti]

That's a big ride.

I did the the TransAmerica Trail (http://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/adventure-cycling-route-network/transamerica-trail/) when I was 25. I hope to commemorate it by riding the Divide by the time I am 45. ;)

Cheers,
KP

[moose8]

Now my interest is piqued; I may have to make my way up to MA for next year's D2R2.

It will be good training for the big ride (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqCYE-Smqf4#t=58) I have planned in 18 months.

Cheers,
KP

If you're even considering that ride d2r2 will be a walk in the park for you. One year I was at a super steep section and I saw at least 40 people walking it (I think there were only two options which is why it was so crowded) and the only guy who wasn't had just (as in a couple of days if I remember correctly) returned from doing the continental divide and he tackled the section like it was absolutely nothing. He happened to have the campsite next to me and I was kind of in awe.

[sitzmark]

A father/son team I know from Bethel Maine just finished Tour Divide July 18th. Son (Max, age 17) is now the youngest rider to compete the entire "race" southbound. 2,735 miles and about 200,000 feet of vert. Had a target of 35 days and made it!

Father is town LBS owner and cycle coach for Gould Academy.

Max's blog: http://maxsrideonthedivide.wordpress.com

[Kirk Pacenti]

A father/son team I know from Bethel Maine just finished Tour Divide July 18th. Son (Max, age 17) is now the youngest rider to compete the entire "race" southbound. 2,735 miles and about 200,000 feet of vert. Had a target of 35 days and made it!

Father is town LBS owner and cycle coach for Gould Academy.

Max's blog: http://maxsrideonthedivide.wordpress.com

Great story; 35 days is my goal too. My plan is to average 100 miles a day and 1 day off a week for rest.

[J.Greene]

A father/son team I know from Bethel Maine just finished Tour Divide July 18th. Son (Max, age 17) is now the youngest rider to compete the entire "race" southbound. 2,735 miles and about 200,000 feet of vert. Had a target of 35 days and made it!

Father is town LBS owner and cycle coach for Gould Academy.

Max's blog: http://maxsrideonthedivide.wordpress.com

My 15yo and I are riding from Antelope Wells to Frisco on the divide next year. Unfortunately we don't have time for the other half. Pretty awesome stuff for that kid above.

[J.Greene]

Now my interest is piqued; I may have to make my way up to MA for next year's D2R2.

It will be good training for the big ride (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqCYE-Smqf4#t=58) I have planned in 18 months.

Cheers,
KP

18 months? Kirk, you can't do this ride in March.

[Kirk Pacenti]

18 months? Kirk, you can't do this ride in March.

Yeah, didn't mean exactly... within 24 months.

[Charles M]

sure its OK to have an opinion, but when he attacks the organizers as doing a terrible job, and a cause as being too expensive, that's offensive.


I didn't see that as an attack as much as a pretty reasonable accounting of the ride (given I've also been there)...

And it's not like the guys a goof and doesn't know his way around a map or new places... I get the spirit of the ride, and liked it, but I think it's a pretty reasonable accounting for folks without an emotional connection that might show for it.

[ergott]

I didn't see that as an attack as much as a pretty reasonable accounting of the ride (given I've also been there)...

And it's not like the guys a goof and doesn't know his way around a map or new places... I get the spirit of the ride, and liked it, but I think it's a pretty reasonable accounting for folks without an emotional connection that might show for it.

I'll categorically disagree. The ride is exactly as described, a rando. It's not fair to complain about no pump at the rest stop, a cue sheet that he as his riding buddies didn't pay attention to, the price, or the fact it goes into Vermont for a stretch.

1) a rando means you need to be self sufficient. You don't like that then this isn't a ride for you.
2) the cue sheets are fine. If you read the account from Tyler elsewhere you'll know they weren't following it closely. They guys were more interested in just being out there riding and the rest of them were cool with that. Perhaps he didn't know this going it, but that's not the fault of the ride. The cue sheets work.
3) it's a fundraiser. Get over it. We're all riding crazy expensive bikes.
4) the route goes into Vermont. That had to be complained about?
5) there are many routes to keep the number of people on a given route down. This allows for a more spread out experience. Also, I've never heard of someone that didn't like more options.

It's like ordering a steak and complaining it doesn't taste more like fish. If you do the slightest amount of research on what the ride is I can't see any of the above as being a reasonable issue.