Thinking about an all-rounder(commuter, gravel road, etc) - help with wheel size

[blantonator]

I'm thinking about putting together an all-rounder bike I'd like to use for commuting, gravel grinding, canal path rails/trails, light touring, and D2R2 events. I have an aluminum race CX bike, but was thinking a steel frame with a steel fork and fender/rack mounts would be much better suited to this task.

My question is what wheel size do I go for, 700C or 650B? I'm only 5'6" so, I'm thinking a 650b with the fatter tires might be better suited, but if I fit fine on a 700C cross bike. Also if I have a 650b frame built up can I still throw on a 700C wheelset with some 25's and expect to ride like a road bike?

Thanks!

[Charles M]

700... Going with the smaller size kinda kills the purpose of setting up a bike to roll over things more easily...

Get clearance for 28 section tires as a minimum (32 is prime) and got for it. Inexpensive Cylcocross frames make perfect platforms for this build.

[p nut]

I'm thinking about putting together an all-rounder bike I'd like to use for commuting, gravel grinding, canal path rails/trails, light touring, and D2R2 events. I have an aluminum race CX bike, but was thinking a steel frame with a steel fork and fender/rack mounts would be much better suited to this task.

My question is what wheel size do I go for, 700C or 650B? I'm only 5'6" so, I'm thinking a 650b with the fatter tires might be better suited, but if I fit fine on a 700C cross bike. Also if I have a 650b frame built up can I still throw on a 700C wheelset with some 25's and expect to ride like a road bike?

Thanks!

This season, I acquired a 650b bike (Rawland Stag) with Hetre's. For an all-rounder, I think this bike is awesome. The balloon tires (well, compared to my 700c road bike) roll smooth and does fairly well off-road, despite the smooth tread. I see that RocknRoads are coming out in 650b and Soma has some new 42mm tires with more aggressive tread design as well. Lots of things going on for 650b.

700c is awesome as well. I have the 700c version of RocknRoads and they are great off-road. I would say if you'll be doing some singletrack/chunky dirt roads, I would go 700c. If that kind of terrain will be minimal, I would look at 650b.

Good luck with the new build.

[blantonator]

how does the 650b compare to 700 on the road. How well does the 650b roll or would I not even notice the difference.

[p nut]

how does the 650b compare to 700 on the road. How well does the 650b roll or would I not even notice the difference.

Well, on my set up, the 650b is slower, because it has fatter/heavier wheels and tires. My 700c road bike rolls faster (on smooth roads). But at longer distances, I MUCH appreciate the plushness (avoiding using the "s" word) of the Hetre's over uneven surfaces and especially dirt roads. Compromise might be to use 32 or 38 tires on the 650b. It would be tough to decide between the two if I were looking at only keeping one bike for all types of riding, but the Stag is better suited for carrying loads and general daily usage.

[JAGI410]

Soma Wolverine or Surly Straggler with 650B!

[blantonator]

Well, on my set up, the 650b is slower, because it has fatter/heavier wheels and tires. My 700c road bike rolls faster (on smooth roads). But at longer distances, I MUCH appreciate the plushness (avoiding using the "s" word) of the Hetre's over uneven surfaces and especially dirt roads. Compromise might be to use 32 or 38 tires on the 650b. It would be tough to decide between the two if I were looking at only keeping one bike for all types of riding, but the Stag is better suited for carrying loads and general daily usage.

This will not be my only bike, I have my road bike, cross bike, mountain bike, and bar hopper!

Also, thoughts about brakes? I'd like to stick with mini-v's, I'd hate to consider disks.

[p nut]

I use canti's (Tektro 720's) on both the Stag and cross bike. With salmon Kool Stop's, no complaints. But if you're wanting to switch between 700c and 650b (per your original post), then the best choice is disc. I'm sure I can stuff 700x25 in the Stag, but won't work with the canti brakes.

[brockd15]

This will not be my only bike, I have my road bike, cross bike, mountain bike, and bar hopper!

Well in that case, 650b for sure.

[oldpotatoe]

700... Going with the smaller size kinda kills the purpose of setting up a bike to roll over things more easily...

Get clearance for 28 section tires as a minimum (32 is prime) and got for it. Inexpensive Cylcocross frames make perfect platforms for this build.

what Charles said..650b isn't going to answer any questions for you when compared to 700c..plus get some mini Vs..there are some really nice ones out there for $20 per end. No need to overthink this..650b on road(NOT MTB) will continue to be kinda a fringe...

[palincss]

700... Going with the smaller size kinda kills the purpose of setting up a bike to roll over things more easily...



Do you have a problem rolling over things on your 700x23C wheels? Because a 650B wheel with a 42mm tire has about the same outside diameter as a 700C wheel with a 23mm tire.

If you want wide tires and have a small frame, 650B makes a lot more sense than 700C. And 42mm is much better on rough pavement or no pavement than 32mm.

[palincss]

650b on road(NOT MTB) will continue to be kinda a fringe...

yeah, like riding on gravel roads is kinda a fringe. Many right-thinking roadies won't even let their wheels touch gravel: they'll pick the bike up a carry it rather than roll the bike over it.

650B is the perfect answer to the question someone the size of the OP is probably asking: "How on earth do I fit a big 42mm tire into a tiny frame like this???"

[oldpotatoe]

yeah, like riding on gravel roads is kinda a fringe. Many right-thinking roadies won't even let their wheels touch gravel: they'll pick the bike up a carry it rather than roll the bike over it.

650B is the perfect answer to the question someone the size of the OP is probably asking: "How on earth do I fit a big 42mm tire into a tiny frame like this???"

I spent about a hour of my 2 hour ride today on a dirt road..on my Moots, with caliper brakes and 25c Vittoria Paves..I think he needs to answer the question whether or not he 'needs' a 42mm tire..one that's fairly hard to find, fairly expensive and fairly fringe..650b road/dirt bicycles.

[cinema]

at 5'6 i would definitely recommend trying 650b. especially because with 29 tires and smaller frame, you will have less vertical clearance to fit saddlebags and front loads with taller tires.

[palincss]

I spent about a hour of my 2 hour ride today on a dirt road..on my Moots, with caliper brakes and 25c Vittoria Paves..I think he needs to answer the question whether or not he 'needs' a 42mm tire..one that's fairly hard to find, fairly expensive and fairly fringe..650b road/dirt bicycles.

I have had no difficulty in finding 650B tires, and I've been using them for 9 years now. What's more, considering the huge following for tubulars on this forum, I hardly consider a $60 tire that will last me several thousand miles "fairly expensive" either outright or by the mile. Back in the early 1990s I was paying $50 ea for 23mm Michelin tires that wore out in 1,000 miles.

[rnhood]

how does the 650b compare to 700 on the road. How well does the 650b roll or would I not even notice the difference.

You want 700. Compromise on paint, frame material, clothes, helmet, gloves, handlebars, tires, but not on wheel size.

[Marburg]

I'm sortof in the same space new-bike-wise, but I'd like to see rider size taken into consideration. At 5'10 on a 56-square kind of bike I think a 700c x 33-35-42+ wheel would still have "normal" geometry.

But I could be convinced that you wouldn't need to go much smaller before the wheels started dominating the frame.

But I take OldP's point. "Underbiking" has been around a lot longer (and is lots of fun) than huge tires on road-style bikes.

[oldpotatoe]

I have had no difficulty in finding 650B tires, and I've been using them for 9 years now. What's more, considering the huge following for tubulars on this forum, I hardly consider a $60 tire that will last me several thousand miles "fairly expensive" either outright or by the mile. Back in the early 1990s I was paying $50 ea for 23mm Michelin tires that wore out in 1,000 miles.

Go into LBS USA and ask about 650b tires. I suspect you are finding them online. Yes, yes, LBS does not the market make but 650b is a fringe compared to number of 700c road tires being made. If ya like 'em, groovy but they are not something brought down from the mountain top, regardless of what the guy from Bicycle Quarterly says, wanna ride on a dirt road, smooth road, commute, whatever? Whatdoyaneed, need? A bike, just about any bike. If ya want to do the 650b gig, great but it isn't the 'answer'. Like I said, I had fun today on a dirt road on my Moots....

[rcnute]

Try 650B and see if you like it. I did.

Ryan

[Frankwurst]

I prefer 650b. I have at least one of each 650b, 26" and 700c bikes. They all roll on at least 32's and 650b is always my go to bike if I know I'll be on alot of dirt and gravel on my ride. Hell if I could only choose one of the three sizes it would be one of the 650b's but that's just me and I don't know much about much. :beer:

[blantonator]

I should say, I actually ride a 650b Giant Anthem and love it, but I'm not totally convinced i need a 650b x 42 for gravel roads if a 700 x 34-38 would be more than enough cush.

I do like the idea of 700 since wheels and tires are easy to find. I also like the idea of 650b, if I ever travel with the bike, 650b wheels will fit easier into a case. Decisions, decisions...

[p nut]

You definitely don't "need" 42's to ride dirt. I mean, people do D2R2 and similar races on 23's, don't they? 34-38 would work very well for what you're looking for. So would 650b 32-42. I don't think there is any definitive line here, and the choice will depend on your personal preference.

As far as availability, 650b's are definitely harder to find than 700c tires, but if you're looking at specialty 32-38 tires, I would venture to guess you will have to either special order from your shop or on-line, just like any 650b tire. I was actually surprised to find one shop locally carrying the full line of Grand Bois tires. But that's pretty rare. Either way, not sure if ordering online or from your shop and waiting a few days is a deal killer for either tire size.

I've been reading This Blog (http://ridingthecatskills.com) for a little while and the few people that contribute ride both 650b(x42) and 700c wheels. Seems like they all equally have a good time. Anyway, good luck.

[mmfs]

I'll second the recommendation for the 650b Rawland Stag (or similar, since they are mostly sold out) and Tektro CR720 brakes. After years on a road racing bike, since making the switch to the Stag, I haven't looked back. Very smooth ride, probably not that much slower, more comfortable, and very versatile. I appreciate the ability to feel efficient on rides that include both smooth paved roads and dirt roads on the same ride. Events like Crush the Commonwealth inspired me to get the bike and it's delivered. I don't see a reason not to get a 650b based bike.


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[R3awak3n]

I think you will be fine with either 650B or 700c if the bike has enough clearance you can put a tire thick enough that will let you do some dirt. You really do not need 42s to do a dirt ride.
Plenty of people were doing D2R2 on 23s and road brakes and they were ripping through the gravel

However I do have a 650B bike with Compass babyshoe tires and am very happy with it, I really like the big tires and how comfortable they are. They sure are not as fast as my 700c bikes but they are fine on the road and fine on dirt. You can't find them as easy, if I was doing a tour on a 650B bike I would definitely bring a spare tire.

There are more tires coming out for 650B bikes that a good hybrid, the soma cazadero is out and the Bruce Gordon Rock and Road 650B is coming out this year which is a great choice for road and gravel already for 700c bikes.

[marciero]

wanna ride on a dirt road, smooth road, commute, whatever? Whatdoyaneed, need? A bike, just about any bike.

Agreed. One caveat though-I think most 700c bikes handle better with 32-ish or less tires and get a little sluggish with, say, 42, at least on the road. Most 650b bikes are designed with larger tires in mind and will have less rotational inertia compared to the same size tire on 700c bike.

But there are other factors for consideration that influence the ride and performance more than simply 700 vs 650b.

[atrexler]

Speaking of all these wheel sizes: yesterday my boss asked me what the deal was with 29" mtn wheels versus the old school 26ers. Whats the consensus on this? I remember there being, maybe still is, alot of debate about this.... 29ers just the new fad? Sorry to slightly hijack the thread.

[oldpotatoe]

Speaking of all these wheel sizes: yesterday my boss asked me what the deal was with 29" mtn wheels versus the old school 26ers. Whats the consensus on this? I remember there being, maybe still is, alot of debate about this.... 29ers just the new fad? Sorry to slightly hijack the thread.

Not 29er vs 26 these days but 29er vs 650b or 27.5-er...

Lots of bike companies, like Giant have abandoned 26 inch MTB completely.

[djg]

Do you have a problem rolling over things on your 700x23C wheels? Because a 650B wheel with a 42mm tire has about the same outside diameter as a 700C wheel with a 23mm tire.

If you want wide tires and have a small frame, 650B makes a lot more sense than 700C. And 42mm is much better on rough pavement or no pavement than 32mm.

I can imagine situations in which more volume is better -- hence mtb tires -- but how rough does the pavement need to be for you to start wishing for something bigger than a 700 x 32 or 33? I'm not criticizing 650b wheels or 42c tires, for whatever application you like, but bigger tires and lower pressure are not just win, win, in all regards, at least not from my point of view. For mixed use riding...well, I don't know what the rider wants or what the mix is, but I can see some folks preferring 32 or even 27c.

[sparky33]

I have had no difficulty in finding 650B tires, and I've been using them for 9 years now. What's more, considering the huge following for tubulars on this forum, I hardly consider a $60 tire that will last me several thousand miles "fairly expensive" either outright or by the mile. Back in the early 1990s I was paying $50 ea for 23mm Michelin tires that wore out in 1,000 miles.

yeah, for anyone who can order something on the internet, uh Everyone, 650b is not fringe or weird or whatever. Garden variety roadies may not know what to make of it, but they will envy how you can rip on nasty bits.

Get a 650b if it's not your only bike. Get some nice 38 or 40mm tires. Don't dress it up like a road bike... you can get a road bike for that.

Alternately, there are a number of excellent very wide 35-38mm 700c tires that will give some of the same ride qualities of 650b...Compass Barlow for example...fits on many a cx bike.

[sparky33]

I can imagine situations in which more volume is better -- hence mtb tires -- but how rough does the pavement need to be for you to start wishing for something bigger than a 700 x 32 or 33? I'm not criticizing 650b wheels or 42c tires, for whatever application you like, but bigger tires and lower pressure are not just win, win

A fair point.
Especially for smaller folks, 42s are a bit overkill for common road conditions. That said, when the mood strikes I find wide 650b tires to be a unique riding sensation with the ridiculous plushness. You can also plow through the worst of roads without regard to normal concerns of flatting or damaging anything - this is nice for nighttime commuting.
Variety is fun.

[sparky33]

Also if I have a 650b frame built up can I still throw on a 700C wheelset with some 25's and expect to ride like a road bike?


It never works out as good as it sounds even though it is technically doable.

[palincss]

[re: installing 700Cx25 wheels on a 650B bike]

There are a couple of issues. If you're using caliper brakes, there's the difference in rim diameter to account for. If, as is common, you've got cantilever brakes so as to be able to easily clear wide tires, you probably won't be able to relocate the pads to properly position them on the 700C wheel.

Then, there's the matter of handling. A 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch wide tire has considerably more pneumatic trail than a < 1" tire, and a good builder has probably adjusted the geometric trail of your bike to account for that extra pneumatic trail. Switch to a significantly narrower tire and you may possibly find yourself with a bicycle with insufficient trail that won't handle properly.

And besides -- other than your having crashed and destroyed your wheels out in the middle of absolute nowhere, why would you want to do that in the first place?

[palincss]

But I take OldP's point. "Underbiking" has been around a lot longer (and is lots of fun) than huge tires on road-style bikes.

Actually, a long time ago (i.e., 1920s, 1930s) road-style bikes had much wider tires than road bikes today. Considering the state of the roads at the time, a road bike with a 42mm demi-ballon tire pretty much was underbiking.

[p nut]

Looks like a lot of fun. 700c or 27" rims, I'd assume.

http://www.tourdefranceposters.com/product-images/AAABQAQA-P698936.jpg

[MerckxMad]

If you already have road and CX rigs, scratch the 650B itch and see if you like it. I did and do. With smooth, supple 38s, you can handle gravel and trails with ease and with a few more psi in the tubes, you won't give up much, if anything, on the road. If this is fringe then I like riding on the fringe. Good luck.

[palincss]

Looks like a lot of fun. 700c or 27" rims, I'd assume.


What do you call a tubular? 28"? Any road, that's hardly a narrow tire.

[blantonator]

Any recommendations whens it comes to long pull calipers, center pulls, or mini-v's. I'm using TRP mini-vs on my cross bike and they were great, just not the prettiest thing out there.

[JAGI410]

My all-rounder (all city mr pink) proudly wears VO Grand Cru caliper brakes.