Zane's: revolutionary LBS business model

[bargainguy]

http://bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2014/08/25/fred-clements-zanes-reinvents-wheel#.U_vouWMTG_k

[mike p]

I like this, very interesting. I wish he'd open a shop in my neighborhood.

Mike

[SlackMan]

Hmmm. So LBS business model has nothing to do with "London Business School," or LBS as many academics and others call it. ;)

[moose8]

The yelp reviews certainly tell a different story - they're about as bad as they get. I was curious because it sounded like a great place so I googled it.

[rcnute]

The yelp reviews certainly tell a different story - they're about as bad as they get. I was curious because it sounded like a great place so I googled it.

Another revolutionary idea--get rid of employees with attitude. Why is this so unique to bike shops, I wonder?

Ryan

[BobbyJones]

I remember reading an article a while ago where he was approaching HR departments in corporations to get them to offer bicycles (purchased from Zanes of course) as prizes in employee contests and incentives, etc. Or something along those lines.

Genius. Pure Genius.

[fogrider]

It sounds great! but we all know we can't believe anything we read on the net...but wait, it was inked...I like to think the ideas are good, but I don't know what to believe...

[bruin11]

He's expanding. He took over the Trek Store in Fairfield, CT last year in addition to his Branford store.

[AngryScientist]

good business model is only a starting point. it's all about the "vibe" of the place, and that is defined by the people who work there.

[cfox]

He's expanding. He took over the Trek Store in Fairfield, CT last year in addition to his Branford store.

data point: I went to that Trek store a few months ago for something and the dude who helped me was super cool and helpful.

[Gummee]

Another revolutionary idea--get rid of employees with attitude. Why is this so unique to bike shops, I wonder?

Ryan

Being on the other side of the counter, its easy to see where the 'attitude' comes from.

Try working in an LBS for a while...

Case in point: last Sat dood comes in for some lube on his chain. Co-worker tries to take the bike and suggests that since said dood has been in a few times for lube now, maybe he should buy some.

You know... doing what we're supposed to do: sell stuff!

Which promptly sets said dood off and he starts yelling at co-worker. Co-worker left before losing his stuff and saying something that'd get him fired.

I wandered over to see what the fuss was and managed to not diffuse the situation and now 'You're an effing loser' and 'You don't care about customer service.'

Mind you, the guy rides in on a spotless 29er kvetching that his chain needs lube from the 'wet, muddy trails.' Bike's a Specialized. From head to toe he's wearing nothing we sell. According to the computer, he hasn't bought a thing from us in over 2 years.

...customer service? Don't you have to be a customer first?!

We have free lifetime adjustments. If he'd ridden in on a bike we sell, sure! no problem. Part of the deal when you bought the bike. We'd still try and sell some lube because if you've been in a few times for free lube, you obviously need some! Ditto with some of the pink bike wash... Clean bikes are happy bikes

M

[cfox]

Another revolutionary idea--get rid of employees with attitude. Why is this so unique to bike shops, I wonder?

Ryan

There is a huge population of cyclists with bad attitudes to pick from, it's only natural a bunch would wind up working in the industry.

[oldpotatoe]

Being on the other side of the counter, its easy to see where the 'attitude' comes from.

Try working in an LBS for a while...

Case in point: last Sat dood comes in for some lube on his chain. Co-worker tries to take the bike and suggests that since said dood has been in a few times for lube now, maybe he should buy some.

You know... doing what we're supposed to do: sell stuff!

Which promptly sets said dood off and he starts yelling at co-worker. Co-worker left before losing his stuff and saying something that'd get him fired.

I wandered over to see what the fuss was and managed to not diffuse the situation and now 'You're an effing loser' and 'You don't care about customer service.'

Mind you, the guy rides in on a spotless 29er kvetching that his chain needs lube from the 'wet, muddy trails.' Bike's a Specialized. From head to toe he's wearing nothing we sell. According to the computer, he hasn't bought a thing from us in over 2 years.

...customer service? Don't you have to be a customer first?!

We have free lifetime adjustments. If he'd ridden in on a bike we sell, sure! no problem. Part of the deal when you bought the bike. We'd still try and sell some lube because if you've been in a few times for free lube, you obviously need some! Ditto with some of the pink bike wash... Clean bikes are happy bikes

M

I hear ya brother. I got yelled at cuz I wouldn't GIVE the guy a free tube.

Got yelled at once cuz I DIDN'T sell Zipp wheels.

Like post above, lots of attitude to go around....like the racer chick who worked up the street who wouldn't look up from her bowl of Cheerios when a customer came in....

Lots of attitude.

[cfox]

Being on the other side of the counter, its easy to see where the 'attitude' comes from.

Try working in an LBS for a while...

Case in point: last Sat dood comes in for some lube on his chain. Co-worker tries to take the bike and suggests that since said dood has been in a few times for lube now, maybe he should buy some.

You know... doing what we're supposed to do: sell stuff!

Which promptly sets said dood off and he starts yelling at co-worker. Co-worker left before losing his stuff and saying something that'd get him fired.

I wandered over to see what the fuss was and managed to not diffuse the situation and now 'You're an effing loser' and 'You don't care about customer service.'

Mind you, the guy rides in on a spotless 29er kvetching that his chain needs lube from the 'wet, muddy trails.' Bike's a Specialized. From head to toe he's wearing nothing we sell. According to the computer, he hasn't bought a thing from us in over 2 years.

...customer service? Don't you have to be a customer first?!

We have free lifetime adjustments. If he'd ridden in on a bike we sell, sure! no problem. Part of the deal when you bought the bike. We'd still try and sell some lube because if you've been in a few times for free lube, you obviously need some! Ditto with some of the pink bike wash... Clean bikes are happy bikes

M

That's a terrible story, but it's still not an excuse to treat the nice customers poorly (I am not saying you or your shop do that at all). In my working life, I dealt with plenty of a-holes, but it's never soured my attitude towards the nice people.

[Bostic]

Sorry for the thread drift but regarding LBS's, how did Mike's Bikes grow from just a few shops to 11 in such a short time? They are the local juggernaut in the Bay Area. Reminds of Start to Finish in the 90's, seems like out of nowhere they had a bunch of stores open up.

[shovelhd]

They had a few obnoxious riders on their team, although I haven't seen them this year at all.

[bargainguy]

Not a fan of Mike's after I walked in last winter looking for tights. Rather than direct me to the appropriate clothing area, employee started asking me about my bike and trying to determine if I was a bike-buying candidate instead of just clothing. So immediate upsell into stuff I didn't want. Walked out of there rather briskly.

[Len J]

Some of the responses in this thread are why it's so hard to find an LBS worth visiting....let alone doing business with.

Yea, all your customers come in w attitude..... Good reason to be preemptive.

Len

[marsh]

There's so much competition in Chicago now, I don't think shops can afford to have jerks behind the counter. The only bad experience I've had around here in the past few years was at a national chain.

[buddybikes]

drip some vegetable oil on his bike (have special bottle) and then walk away
perhaps have a name on the bottle just for him...

[Elmer]

Bought some bar tape and talked to a sales guy about saddles.

Very helpful, not overbearing and answered all of my questions with clear answers.

Everything you want and expect.

[nooneline]

From head to toe he's wearing nothing we sell.

Hahaha. Reminds me of when I worked at a shop. In the neighborhood there was a guy who looked like he woke up on a barstool. He'd ride around on the sidewalks on a Specialized Shiv with a Hed3/Disc combination, Di2, flat pedals, sneakers, jeans, plenty of belly and a dirty t-shirt. Ten grand worth of bike for sure, and he came into the shop all the time, only ever for one purpose - to use the crack pipe adaptor to pump his disc up.

[Ahneida Ride]

Right on ....

Why is CycleSport in Northern NJ so popular ?
Why such a loyal fan base ?

Right Vibe, over the top service, no attitude, no pressure sales,
fair prices.

[David Kirk]

I worked at a good number of shops in my youth and the one's that were easy going and didn't sweat a buck here and there always did well.....happy customers, happy employes, happy owner. On the other hand the shops that sweat the customer over an item that cost them 50 cents or won't give them their free 30 day tune up because it's been 36 days always struggled........and the harder they struggled the more they counted the pennies and the negative feedback loop gets rolling and often only ends with a going out of business sign.

If a business treats their customers with the respect they deserve (after all the customer is paying the owner's mortgage) then things fall into line. If they treat the customer as an adversary who's money they are trying to extract from their wallet things will go south in the long run. Sure......a few customers will try to play the system and take advantage and if they can sleep at night and deal with the negative karma more power to them. It all works out in the end.

dave

[pjmsj21]

Service is the hardest commodity to duplicate, but in many businesses, service is the most significant way that a business can differentiate itself from others. There are just so many examples of businesses that are stand out successes because they can provide better service than the competition. Free lube is pretty cheap, but becomes memorable to a customer especially if the other guy down the street won't do it.

[Ti Designs]

Another revolutionary idea--get rid of employees with attitude.

Define attitude.

[oldpotatoe]

Define attitude.

:eek:

[Llewellyn]

Define attitude.

I think you just did.

[1centaur]

I worked at a good number of shops in my youth and the one's that were easy going and didn't sweat a buck here and there always did well.....happy customers, happy employes, happy owner. On the other hand the shops that sweat the customer over an item that cost them 50 cents or won't give them their free 30 day tune up because it's been 36 days always struggled........and the harder they struggled the more they counted the pennies and the negative feedback loop gets rolling and often only ends with a going out of business sign.

If a business treats their customers with the respect they deserve (after all the customer is paying the owner's mortgage) then things fall into line. If they treat the customer as an adversary who's money they are trying to extract from their wallet things will go south in the long run. Sure......a few customers will try to play the system and take advantage and if they can sleep at night and deal with the negative karma more power to them. It all works out in the end.

dave

Really wise. Should be on the wall in the back office of every retail establishment. If the difference between making it and not is chiseling around the edge, you won't survive. That said, to maximize success, you have to find a magic combination of the Dave Kirk formula and making better than decent margin in a way that does not feel offensive to MOST customers. Nobody said it was easy.

[velomonkey]

I had heard about their coffee bar - I think in Inc magazine or something. They are about 40 minutes from me and I was driving by - so I stopped to check it out.

The coffee bar was kind of a mess and did not have coffee. From what I saw: it was all marketing ploy.

[fuzzalow]

Define attitude.

Define attitude? Sure, kinda in the same vein as Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart defined pornography, you know it when you see it.

Frankly, I could even appreciate attitude if it were well done with a sense of insouciant laissez faire bordering on derision. But I don't think these type of LBS wags are that forward thinking - their attitude instead comprises a pall of boredom and misplaced narcissism.

[unterhausen]

a lot of cyclists are introverts. Then these introverts go work for a bike shop and people think they have attitude, when it's really just standard-issue introvert behavior.

There is one shop in town that everyone hates -- unless they are one of the favored few. I can't stand to go there, I get dragged in there occasionally but I just want to leave

I probably have a few bad bike shop customer stories, but the one that sticks out in my mind is the guy that brought his bike in for an adjustment. I put the bike up on the stand, spin the wheel, stop it with the brake and the cable snaps under virtually zero pressure. I replaced the cable and put it on his bill, no charge for saving his life. When he came in, he was outraged and started screaming at me. Fortunately my boss was there and said to take it off the bill, because I would have argued with the guy for quite a while.

[Gummee]

Frankly, I could even appreciate attitude if it were well done with a sense of insouciant laissez faire bordering on derision.I'm actually pretty good at this part. Too bad I'm in an area where its not really appreciated. When you come in to the shop and don't know how to change out a tube and worst of all don't want to know how to change a tube, you get thinly disguised derision.

Yeah, doesn't get me many tips. Not that we get many to begin with.

M

[unterhausen]

When you come in to the shop and don't know how to change out a tube and worst of all don't want to know how to change a tube, you get thinly disguised derision.
I think of fixing flats as easy money, I can't imagine treating people badly for having that done. Although we probably charged more in constant dollars that bike shops charge now.

[CaptStash]

I'm actually pretty good at this part. Too bad I'm in an area where its not really appreciated. When you come in to the shop and don't know how to change out a tube and worst of all don't want to know how to change a tube, you get thinly disguised derision.

Yeah, doesn't get me many tips. Not that we get many to begin with.

M

Hmmm, I'm a very mechanical guy. The idea of not being able to change out any part - let alone fix a flat is totally foreign to me, but I am also (wise?) enough to know that not everyone is mechanical. I know brilliant people I wouldn't trust with a screwdriver. Surely there are things you just can't do, or don't want to struggle to learn to dom that others do in tehir sleep. Should tehy be derisiveof you? Seems like a little more understanding is in order here.

CaptStash....

[velotrack]

Hmmm, I'm a very mechanical guy. The idea of not being able to change out any part - let alone fix a flat is totally foreign to me, but I am also (wise?) enough to know that not everyone is mechanical. I know brilliant people I wouldn't trust with a screwdriver. Surely there are things you just can't do, or don't want to struggle to learn to dom that others do in tehir sleep. Should tehy be derisiveof you? Seems like a little more understanding is in order here.

CaptStash....

Agreed.

They're coming to you, the expert, and want their bike fixed. They don't work at a shop and have their own reasons for not particularly caring how to change a tube. Their fault? Not really. If it's a family shop, I'd leave the negativity at your doorstep and accept that not everyone is a serious cyclist.

Quite frankly, it seems like with that kind of thinking and level of understanding I'd very likely be at another shop.

[572cv]

a lot of cyclists are introverts. Then these introverts go work for a bike shop and people think they have attitude, when it's really just standard-issue introvert behavior.



So, this brings up a really important point, in my mind, which is that the way we each-and-every-one-of-us perceives the world and communicates with each other is a little different. One way to understand that better is to consider the Meyers Briggs Type Indicator. Some forumites have done this, I know, but many of you may not have heard of it. First check out the wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator

Then do one of the many self tests on the web, to get a better handle on your self and how the thing works. You will see that it is not just introvert-extrovert, but also at least three other contrasting ways of sensing the world around you. Armed with this knowledge, one can approach an interaction with another person differently, and communicate reasonably, with appropriate expectations. It doesn't work every time, but for me, it has made a meaningful difference in my own stress level in real time. A truly practical application of theory. I'm an INTP. The MB system has a matrix which identifies 16 types, and that is just one. Check it out!

[fuzzalow]

I'm actually pretty good at this part. Too bad I'm in an area where its not really appreciated. When you come in to the shop and don't know how to change out a tube and worst of all don't want to know how to change a tube, you get thinly disguised derision.

Yeah, doesn't get me many tips. Not that we get many to begin with.

M

I understand where you are coming from and from some of the responses, I gather that it might be misunderstood.

IMO there is a world of difference between a person with an attitude that is reflective of a general dislike or frustration with himself and his customers versus a person that can adopt a attitude contingent to the customer he is dealing with. The first type of guy just doesn't want to be there and doesn't like what he does. Or is just plain a dick which is its own form of self preoccupation. The second type of guy can be amusing in a sardonic fashion and may likewise require a customer that catches on and wants to play along. It takes a degree of self awareness to play the straight guy in this type of exchange.

There are countless ways people interact with one another. And it is perfectly understandable that some customers are only comfortable with the standard corporate model of customer interactions - which is pandering to a degree and pretty bland because it needs to be inoffensive to the LCD of customer. But the bike industry is predominantly less of a model of the corporate chain and more built on the backs of independent shops. So it makes sense that there is more colorful interactions with the indie LBS based on the characters and personalities that run them. And that's a good thing.

It's nice to enjoy the company of people for who and what they are. And I am perfectly capable of meeting them halfway if they are willing to do the same. Attitude can be seen as part of what makes up the vibe and character of a shop. Attitude is not automatically a bad quality, it just depends on how it is used.

[Joachim]

I'm actually pretty good at this part. Too bad I'm in an area where its not really appreciated. When you come in to the shop and don't know how to change out a tube and worst of all don't want to know how to change a tube, you get thinly disguised derision.

Yeah, doesn't get me many tips. Not that we get many to begin with.

M

Great approach...next time you go to your primary care physician and you get thinly disguised derision for coming in with a common cold because you thought you had the flu, I'm sure you would think what a swell guy. Be thankful for the people who don't know how the change a tube. They are partly the reason you have a job.

ps. I do agree with Fuzz that its about how the attitude is used, but even then. This is still a service industry. Don't want to deal with people? Go work in the field of theoretical physics.

[djg]

Being on the other side of the counter, its easy to see where the 'attitude' comes from.

Try working in an LBS for a while...

Case in point: last Sat dood comes in for some lube on his chain. Co-worker tries to take the bike and suggests that since said dood has been in a few times for lube now, maybe he should buy some.

You know... doing what we're supposed to do: sell stuff!

Which promptly sets said dood off and he starts yelling at co-worker. Co-worker left before losing his stuff and saying something that'd get him fired.

I wandered over to see what the fuss was and managed to not diffuse the situation and now 'You're an effing loser' and 'You don't care about customer service.'

Mind you, the guy rides in on a spotless 29er kvetching that his chain needs lube from the 'wet, muddy trails.' Bike's a Specialized. From head to toe he's wearing nothing we sell. According to the computer, he hasn't bought a thing from us in over 2 years.

...customer service? Don't you have to be a customer first?!

We have free lifetime adjustments. If he'd ridden in on a bike we sell, sure! no problem. Part of the deal when you bought the bike. We'd still try and sell some lube because if you've been in a few times for free lube, you obviously need some! Ditto with some of the pink bike wash... Clean bikes are happy bikes

M

I get that shop employees -- and owners -- are human and that this or that person might get under one's skin. Long, long ago, in school, I waited on tables. Some people were great, most were just fine, and for most at the thin end of the rude/crazy/mean curve . . . well, typically one could deal with them without a scene. But once in a while there was no happy, elegant solution to somebody else's issues. You have been to restaurants. You have seen this.

Still, if that sort of thing is going to lead to an "attitude," maybe you're in the wrong line of work. I hope an LBS has a pretty good stream of customers on any given Saturday. However wonderful the general population of customers might be, you just have to anticipate that some customers will be clueless and that, here and there, somebody will be fundamentally and aggressively unreasonable. You deal with such things as best you can, and part of dealing with it is moving on to the next person with a smile for that next person. Maybe you need to find a way to take a minute, but you need to flip the switch. You're in retail -- that's sorta the gig, right?

[oldpotatoe]

I get that shop employees -- and owners -- are human and that this or that person might get under one's skin. Long, long ago, in school, I waited on tables. Some people were great, most were just fine, and for most at the thin end of the rude/crazy/mean curve . . . well, typically one could deal with them without a scene. But once in a while there was no happy, elegant solution to somebody else's issues. You have been to restaurants. You have seen this.

Still, if that sort of thing is going to lead to an "attitude," maybe you're in the wrong line of work. I hope an LBS has a pretty good stream of customers on any given Saturday. However wonderful the general population of customers might be, you just have to anticipate that some customers will be clueless and that, here and there, somebody will be fundamentally and aggressively unreasonable. You deal with such things as best you can, and part of dealing with it is moving on to the next person with a smile for that next person. Maybe you need to find a way to take a minute, but you need to flip the switch. You're in retail -- that's sorta the gig, right?

Retail, any retail, is hard...

Bicycle Retail..miss the bike part, not the retail part.

[Corso]

Attitude:
First time I stopped in a small, local, fairly new LBS, the owner/manager asked me “What bike can I sell you today”, (ok, no offense) then latter “who works on your bike?”

I told him “I do all the work on bikes, always have.”

Gave me a look, and said “I’m SURE you don’t have the tools and knowledge to work on all the new stuff coming out”…

That’s what I call attitude.

I informed him that I maintain my cars, and motorcycles, so a bike is not really so tough...

So I don’t pay for mechanics, but I still BUY lot’s of stuff. But not from him.

[Climb01742]

Anyone have a theory as to why, among all the various retails establishments we all go into over the course of our lives, LBS are far more likely to treat customers with indifference, disdain thinly veiled or not, condescension or other unpleasant modes of interaction? All retail is hard but why do bike shops tend to size up most customers to see whether they're worth the employees' attention and effort? Lousy retail experiences are the exception in most fields but almost the rule in LBS. Any idea why?

[cfox]

Anyone have a theory as to why, among all the various retails establishments we all go into over the course of our lives, LBS are far more likely to treat customers with indifference, disdain thinly veiled or not, condescension or other unpleasant modes of interaction? All retail is hard but why do bike shops tend to size up most customers to see whether they're worth the employees' attention and effort? Lousy retail experiences are the exception in most fields but almost the rule in LBS. Any idea why?

Raise your hand if cyclists are the most effete, prissy, self conscious and snobby group of participants in any sport you've ever played (hand raised here). Now, given that population to choose from, it only makes sense that a decent percentage of people with the aforementioned attributes will end up working in a bike shop. That's my theory.

[Ti Designs]

I told him “I do all the work on bikes, always have.”

Gave me a look, and said “I’m SURE you don’t have the tools and knowledge to work on all the new stuff coming out”…

That’s what I call attitude.


So Attitude requires at least two working brain cells. One to have an idea, the other to think that idea is right...

I'm pretty sure you don't have all the tools and knowledge to work on all the new stuff coming out - I could be wrong (note the lack of emphasis on the word sure), but there are a few special tools my shop had to order for work that needed to be done. An ST bearing press for example, or the puller for Shimano tandem cranks. That said, there's no reason to think you don't have all the skill of the shop's best mechanic, getting the right tool isn't rocket science...

If they can't recognize that you have the same talent as their mechanics, that's attitude. For them to come to that conclusion instantly is probably worse in terms of doing the right thing for the customer. Not so long ago I was heavily criticized for suggesting that people (meaning forum members) who don't know what they're doing have someone who does know what they are doing check their work, or show them the ropes. It's apparently insulting to think that a member of this forum isn't an expert mechanic. Then less than a week later a picture shows up where someone put their brake pads in backwards... My point here is that everybody thinks they are a great bike mechanic. Some are, some are far from it. I would always try to get a feel for how much someone knows about turning wrenches. It really doesn't take that long, it even saves time in the long run. For example, I have a customer who works on import cars, and he needed to mount a rack on his bike. I told him "it's a M5x.8 screw and you'll want to chase the threads 'cause they painted the eyelets over" - all he needed. If I told that to the next "expert bike mechanic" who walks in, they'll wind up using zinc plated 10-32 screws because that's what they found in their house.

Offering information isn't attitude, insisting that you need it may be another story...

[Gummee]

So a guy comes in yesterday with 2 flats. Seems he hit a lip on the driveway to somewhere and pinched em both. (I won't go into riding skills, or lack of here...)

Unlike the majority of folks that wander thru the shop, he actually wanted to learn how to change a tire. Shocking! I know, huh?

So I taught him. Show em. Take it back apart. Let em try. Show em again. Take it back apart. Explain what went wrong. Let em try again. Repeat till they get it.

...all for the price of a pair of tubes.

In lots of cases, attitude begets attitude. Come in with one, that's what you'll get back. We're only human yannow.

M

[CaliFly]

Attitude:

From shop
1. Subscribing to the idea that the customer is there to help THEM...not the other way around.
2. Not listening.

From the customer
1. Looking for handouts instead of help.
2. Not listening.

[professerr]

So, this brings up a really important point, in my mind, which is that the way we each-and-every-one-of-us perceives the world and communicates with each other is a little different. One way to understand that better is to consider the Meyers Briggs Type Indicator. Some forumites have done this, I know, but many of you may not have heard of it. First check out the wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator

Then do one of the many self tests on the web, to get a better handle on your self and how the thing works. You will see that it is not just introvert-extrovert, but also at least three other contrasting ways of sensing the world around you. Armed with this knowledge, one can approach an interaction with another person differently, and communicate reasonably, with appropriate expectations. It doesn't work every time, but for me, it has made a meaningful difference in my own stress level in real time. A truly practical application of theory. I'm an INTP. The MB system has a matrix which identifies 16 types, and that is just one. Check it out!


This MB stuff is about as convincing as humorism, astrology or scientology, with only marginally improved scientific credibility. But I'm an INTJ, so I'd think that.

Regarding the customers who come to a LBS to change a flat, I’ve got no beef with that. Who knows -- maybe they don’t want to get their hands dirty or they ride so infrequently that flats are a very rare thing not worth learning how to deal with. Easy money for the bike shop I’ve heard, and a chance to save the day for a recreational rider who may come back.

On the other hand, I once stopped to help a guy pouting on the side of the road with $15+K of bike and wheels, full Assos, belly, etc. No idea how to change his flat tire, some sort of slimy sealant all over him and the wheel. I offered him a tube and even a hand, but he declined instead preferring to call the shop to come get him. I rolled out (whilst rolling my eyes) before I heard whether they would.

[firerescuefin]

So a guy comes in yesterday with 2 flats. Seems he hit a lip on the driveway to somewhere and pinched em both. (I won't go into riding skills, or lack of here...)M

If this guy showed up to a group ride....are you "too cool for school" or the guy that helps show him the ropes....explain the dynamics of the ride?

Curious.

[Saint Vitus]

Ahhh yes customer service. Worked it most of my life, hell even in the corporate world I still have to perform the same duties.

It's really quite simple, the reason you open a business is the customers. Piss them off and they'll dry up (just distilling what Mr Kirk said a few pages back but wanted to reinforce).

Sure some customers need to be shown the door and some need kid gloves, but for the most part people respond favorably to be treated with respect even those who come in scowling.

I was in a bike store on Monday in Solvang, and not one person acknowledged myself or my family (and no we weren't going to buy anything, just stopping through and wanted to browse). I was taught to acknowledge everyone that came through the door, whether you liked the cut of their cloth or not, had your coffee or a hangover.

[parris]

^ this.

[pbarry]

If this guy showed up to a group ride....are you "too cool for school" or the guy that helps show him the ropes....explain the dynamics of the ride?

Curious.

Gummee gets it. Willing to teach those willing to learn.

G was talking about fixing a flat, and you moved on to the idea that wrenches should be TiDesigns. The cyclists that can explain the ride are not always the same folks that can fix a flat in 90 seconds. I know that TiDesigns can do that too, but he's a rare bird. :hello:

[buddybikes]

Once in a while all those pain in a** people make working in a shop worthwhile when a cute young thing comes in asking for help. Yes my old boss physically chased me around the store p*ssed that I took care of her (1975 but still vivid in my mind!)

[Gummee]

If this guy showed up to a group ride....are you "too cool for school" or the guy that helps show him the ropes....explain the dynamics of the ride?

Curious.

The answer is 'yes.'

Depends on the ride. Depends on the person. IOW They want the info, I'll give it. They don't seem to want the info I keep my yap shut.

M

[Gummee]

Gummee gets it. Willing to teach those willing to learn.

G was talking about fixing a flat, and you moved on to the idea that wrenches should be TiDesigns. The cyclists that can explain the ride are not always the same folks that can fix a flat in 90 seconds. I know that TiDesigns can do that too, but he's a rare bird. :hello:
I've been in and out of shops for the last oh 15-20 years or so. I've seen (and done) lots.

I don't think ever I've met as many clearly 'no mechanical sympathy' types as here in Reston. It really is amazing.

M

[fuzzalow]

I've been in and out of shops for the last oh 15-20 years or so. I've seen (and done) lots.

Sounds like fun dealing with blokes like you that have a sense of purpose insofar as the shop; a sense of humor as far as the work and a sense of friendly improvisation as far as dealing with customers. Not very corporate but very much unique and human. How's that for attitude!

[j0oftheworld]

My LBS is similar..
Free tune-ups (their $40 version) for life
Great techs and couches/tv's playing biking videos
Free raid of their "junk drawers" for small parts
Free lifetime flats service (they instal tire strips)
Trade-in, straight up buying used, and ebay consigning
Huge online catalog that lets you know what's in stock and at which store!

Now I need to get them to put in a coffee bar!! :p

http://globalbikes.info/

[firerescuefin]

.

[Gummee]

Sounds like fun dealing with blokes like you that have a sense of purpose insofar as the shop; a sense of humor as far as the work and a sense of friendly improvisation as far as dealing with customers. Not very corporate but very much unique and human. How's that for attitude!

Can be.

I try to have fun but some folks just don't seem to get my sense of humor.

Gets me in trouble sometimes.

M

[pzung]

Good read. Thanks for sharing.

http://bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2014/08/25/fred-clements-zanes-reinvents-wheel#.U_vouWMTG_k

[fuzzalow]

I try to have fun but some folks just don't seem to get my sense of humor.

Gets me in trouble sometimes.

I have no business offering you advice which, of course, does not preclude me from saying my piece about it to you anyway. :)

There is never a need to get yourself into trouble by pressing on customers your sense of humor. Whether they can't get it or don't want to get it, you can read this from them immediately - they're just not into it. So you, with your Zelig-like facility, can switch miens to play it straight for this type of customer. Go all Lee Strasberg on them in doing the corporate drone thing and they will eat it up.

Save the schtick for the customers that can appreciate it. That way all your shop's customers leave happy.

[paredown]

Anyone have a theory as to why, among all the various retails establishments we all go into over the course of our lives, LBS are far more likely to treat customers with indifference, disdain thinly veiled or not, condescension or other unpleasant modes of interaction? All retail is hard but why do bike shops tend to size up most customers to see whether they're worth the employees' attention and effort? Lousy retail experiences are the exception in most fields but almost the rule in LBS. Any idea why?

I've got a theory--probably not very robust, though.

I think bike shops are a kind of a throwback to an earlier time--more likely to be owned and run by a single proprietor who turns an avocation into a vocation--often with expertise in other fields that make him a good bike mechanic. There are also low barriers to entry (it seems). But often they have not had either the 'corporate' experience to learn a kind of professionalism or main-line retail experience to learn how to deal effectively with the range of customer demands. Then they hire 'kids" and are not that effective at training them or imparting the skills required for effective customer interaction. I don't think you need 'slick', and I'm perfectly fine with a little humor, attitude etc--but everyone needs to understand the goal is to win customers and keep them.

The overlay is then the complexity of the business--you have that same mix of service and new bike sales as a car dealership (but without the same ability to separate the two functions), added to that you have the equipment/accessory sales (more like a Pep Boys than a car parts department) and on top of all that you are trying to run a mini-boutique selling fashionable clothes and shoes.

If you started in the business (as many have) because you like 'bikes'--it is not just that you are going to spending a lot of time fixing bikes that you would cheerfully chuck in a pond if you had the choice, a good part of your day will be spent doing stuff like advising people on clothing or shoe fit or selling bikes (where, like car sales, you need to know how to ask for the sale) if you are going to be successful at it.

Add to all of this basic money concerns, and even people who start with a good attitude can get bitter pretty quickly. A study I looked at years ago pointed out that most small businesses fail in the first two years and another one pointed out that most bike shops are undercapitalized and are running on fairly thin margins, so they are likely to fail pretty quickly, or limp along, especially if the owner/manager has not figured out that he or she is in the customer service business.

I won't even get started on the newer model of single brand dominated shops that has made it much harder for independents...

[Gummee]

I have no business offering you advice which, of course, does not preclude me from saying my piece about it to you anyway. :)Its the innerwebs... its expected!

There is never a need to get yourself into trouble by pressing on customers your sense of humor.
Problem rises when you greet 10 people the same way and get at least a chuckle out of 8 of em. ...then... 1 will get upset. Another's going to complain.

Problem is you don't know which 2 (or so) are going to react wrong to what you're saying. Everyone else is laughing and it sets a good tone for the interaction.

I have a few customers that know and appreciate our 'less than corporate' interactions.

M
oh, and if we're doing that personality test thing: INTJ here

[bikingshearer]

Can be.

I try to have fun but some folks just don't seem to get my sense of humor.

Gets me in trouble sometimes.

M

Oh, man, does this strike a chord. Many moons ago, I managed a Haagen-Dazs near UCLA. On one busy night, when I asked a guy what he wanted, he said "Make me a chocolate shake." I sort of pointed at him and said "Poof. You're a chocolate shake." Pause. "I guess it didn't work." The rest of the crew cracked up. Other customers cracked up. He looked at me with the blankest blank stare I have ever seen. We giggled like schoolgirls about it for the rest of the night.

All I know is that retail, whichever side of the counter you are on, goes a lot better with a little patience and a sense of humor. Unfortunately, the vast minority of the population that either are jerks or are having a psychotic-break day have a negative impact waaaaaaay out of proportion to their numbers.

Sorry for the thread drift . . . sort of.

[Cornfed]

I'll preface this by saying that no one has ever assumed by my appearances that I am any kind of cyclist, but the first time I went in to my LBS was to buy a tire for my MTB. The guy that helped me came out from the shop (first good sign), shook my hand (second good sign), asked about what kind of riding I did (third), asked about where I rode (fourth), then told me about some other good rides I should try (gold). He never asked about what kind of bike I rode or tried to sell me anything besides what I was asking for. He cared more about my riding experience than about my wallet. In other words, he treated me like a fellow rider, not a customer. Like any of us would want to be treated.