Let's talk about why New England has no velodrome.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Lots of bikes up here, no track. This is unfortunate. The make-shift track we sorta had just outside Boston was the subject of a major dust-up, but it went away recently (bikes-on-tracks gave way to cars-on-tracks, as I understand it).

There was an effort several years ago (possibly before the credit markets went kaboom) to build a velodrome. I think the skinny-jean hipster crowd wanted to put it in Cambridge, which never made economic sense (real estate being horridly expensive there). But even that idea appears to have died a quiet death.

Huge capital cost, and probably very low (or negative) margins. Apart from it making zero financial sense, I'm curious why New England hasn't mustered its resources to sort out a solution.

[carpediemracing]

I raced at the kart-track velodrome in 2009 every week I could, two weeks in 2008.

I also went to a meeting about creating a bike park, with velodrome, early this year (or was it late last year, I don't remember, I just remember it was really cold).

The things I learned:
- Most if not all velodromes don't make money. They need to be subsidized. When I raced I think it was $9 for the night and I was there a good 3 hours. There were maybe 40 racers on a good night so less than a single field in a weeknight training race that takes place on a venue that already exists.
- In an area where it rains or snows or gets really cold a roof really increases revenue/attendance consistency. Problem is roofs cost money, even the ones that resemble car ports (I forget the name but I looked into them; the state uses them for DOT shelters for sand and equipment). Even after a roof heat costs money. Air conditioning costs money.
- Egos seem to get involved. Two separate "groups" fought over the 318 meter, not-banked-enough, concrete curbs at the bottom kart track. "Fought" isn't the perfect term but they certainly weren't working well together and it tore apart the small community there. In NYC someone said there were 6 groups trying to get a velodrome going but none of them worked with each other.

I wish there was a nice 250m track in southern New England. I even thought about the things a track would want - near a highway (the NH kart-track was about 7-8 minutes off a highway, much better than driving 20-30 minutes once off the highway to get to some of the race venues I've been to); low cost land (so farm land, maybe brown fields aka industrial land, maybe farm land like in northern CT, etc); no flooding (so not near the river in Hartford, for example, where one park ends up under 10 feet of water regularly, or the state police shooting range in town which is closed regularly because it's under 5-10 feet of water).

You'd want to have some food services on site so that you could make money and so that racers wouldn't have to leave. Maybe a healthier place, there's some chains that would make more sense than others. Around here there's an organic burger joint, organic Mexican style place, etc.

Another would be a nearby gas station that sells diesel (we drive diesels). Everyone that drives would want to get fuel and any event promoter needs to encourage racers to buy local to encourage the town to support the race/s.

Ideally you'd want it to be a reverse commute direction from the nearest big city so that racers aren't trying to get to a 6 PM event through rush hour traffic.

I'm sure I'm missing ideas etc but that's what I have.

[Bruce K]

I thought there was a paved outdoor velodrome in NH (Londonderry?).

I also thought there was work progressing on one out near Amherst, MA

BK

[Admiral Ackbar]

i assume you're talking about Northeast Velodrome? i think its a go kart center now

a year or two ago i spoke to a few folks locally who pinned the demise of the track mostly on the lack of attendance to events and training sessions. but i also remember reading a quite scathing blog post about the short fallings of the track management.

[Bruce K]

One of our locals has been posting pictures of track bikes and him on an oval on FB

I'll try to pin down more info

BK

[Anarchist]

I realize it involves a drive (maybe a weekend adventure) but there are 250m tracks at Bromont, PQ and at Dieppe, NB.

[cbresciani]

I really wish we had a velodrome in the Phoenix metro area. Granted it might not see a lot of action during the summer but the other 9 months out of the year the weather is exceptional.

I think the closest one to where I live now is in San Diego.

[sitzmark]

Marymoor Park Velodrome is an attractive facility in Seattle about 5-6 miles from my parent's house and seems "successful", but have heard making the numbers work is a struggle.

[palincss]

Quite a commute from New England, though...

[Dead Man]

I really wish we had a velodrome in the Phoenix metro area. Granted it might not see a lot of action during the summer but the other 9 months out of the year the weather is exceptional.

I think the closest one to where I live now is in San Diego.

Ours, Alpenrose in Portland, only gets 3 months out of the year.... we could ride down there for the other 9!

I think the only way you're going to get a Velodrome built anywhere in the US is if some bicycle-loving corporation decides to build their own and take full emotional ownership of it (much like Alpenrose). It won't make money, but just might pay for a part of itself and be a great source of positive public relations in the community. A company that does a lot of local business and makes a mint - rare. Who's that? Pitch it to 'em!

[Dead Man]

Do you guys have Intel out there?? Tech companies might be ticket.. they have the money, build localized communities for their facilities, and love to do highly publicly visible fun stuff, like build highschool stadiums and crap.

[sitzmark]

Quite a commute from New England, though...

Yeah, just sayin' the numbers aren't attractive for a drome that is relatively "successful".

I too, have to travel 2,999.8 miles to get there. :)

[sitzmark]

Do you guys have Intel out there?? Tech companies might be ticket.. they have the money, build localized communities for their facilities, and love to do highly publicly visible fun stuff, like build highschool stadiums and crap.

Lots of tech and healthcare. As noted - land cost is $$$. Too many high(er)-return opportunities.

Still could be possible if the right benevolent planets lined up.

[shovelhd]

I thought there was a paved outdoor velodrome in NH (Londonderry?).

I also thought there was work progressing on one out near Amherst, MA

BK

No to Londonderry. There was a paved outdoor velodrome in NH but it closed down years ago amidst funding and political issues.

No way is there anything even remotely going on regarding Amherst. I live in a neighboring town. Ain't being discussed.

There was an effort to build one in Brooklyn which was backed by big money but the neighbors shot it down.

Cleveland has one of the newest outdoor velodromes in the country. It cost them in the neighborhood of $250K. There are plans in place to cover it with an inflatable dome in the next phase, and in the following phase build a second dome for indoor sporting events like soccer and football.

[shovelhd]

Lots of tech and healthcare. As noted - land cost is $$$. Too many high(er)-return opportunities.

Still could be possible if the right benevolent planets lined up.

One thing that there is a good bit of out here is open space. There are several trusts that manage large parcels of land that could be engaged. While a velodrome is not open space, it isn't residential development, either, which is the main driver behind a lot of these trusts. A case could be made that a non-profit running a velodrome would be a good use of open space.

[Bruce K]

I thought someone in western MA had purchased a wooden velodrome and one of the towns out there was discussing offering the use of space

That was a couple of years ago

BK

[likebikes]

Let's see.

The new england velodrome / northeast velodrome was ruined by a hostile takeover by another competing group/interest.

The northampton cycling club did in fact own a velodrome, from 2003-2008, but they did nothing with it, it never opened for use and has since been sold and dismantled and is now in PA.

The boston velodrome was never really a serious effort, the whole thing was a MBA thesis project.

There have been some temporary ones that have sprouted up in warehouses- most recently one last winter in somerville.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Take away I get from this thread is: no money, poor organization, lack of serious leadership. That's too bad.

[bikinchris]

I'll tell you the exact reason there is no track in every state. I haven't won the Powerball.

[CunegoFan]

Take away I get from this thread is: no money, poor organization, lack of serious leadership. That's too bad.

The takeaway I get is that there is not enough demand.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

The takeaway I get is that there is not enough demand.

It's a mistake to confuse the level of demand with the economic viability of the enterprise. I suspect that like all things cycling, demand is high but the price elasticity of that demand is very high. Several people have already indicated that running a track doesn't pencil. So unless demand becomes magically inelastic (we all show up with our Benjamins, rather than our Lincolns, on race night), building one becomes about community support (financial an otherwise). And that is about LOTS more than cyclist demand.

[sitzmark]

Looks like a redevelopment group in Coatesvile, PA has been kicking a major Velodrome project around for about 4 years. Coincidentally about the time NE Velo tanked and pie-in-the-sky talk about an indoor drome was making the rounds.

An up-to-date "serious" blueprint for an eastern velodrome campaign has already been assembled ... cut and paste the development location. As developed, it's for Coatesville.

http://www.cceconomicdevelopment.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/CSL-Coatesville-Final-Report.pdf

[likebikes]

It's a mistake to confuse the level of demand with the economic viability of the enterprise. I suspect that like all things cycling, demand is high but the price elasticity of that demand is very high. Several people have already indicated that running a track doesn't pencil. So unless demand becomes magically inelastic (we all show up with our Benjamins, rather than our Lincolns, on race night), building one becomes about community support (financial an otherwise). And that is about LOTS more than cyclist demand.

I honestly don't ever see it happening in/close to boston. Lots of cyclists and interest in cycling but there's no land left to build anything, and whatever land left is so so expensive.

Western mass, southern NH, or northern ct might be more viable, I'm not familiar with the dynamics if those areas.

[sitzmark]

I honestly don't ever see it happening in/close to boston. Lots of cyclists and interest in cycling but there's no land left to build anything, and whatever land left is so so expensive.

Western mass, southern NH, or northern ct might be more viable, I'm not familiar with the dynamics if those areas.

Fall River and Worcester could certainly use some "redevelopment". :)

[carpediemracing]

I thought there was a paved outdoor velodrome in NH (Londonderry?).
BK

i assume you're talking about Northeast Velodrome? i think its a go kart center now

I raced at Londonderry for a season of Wednesdays and two Wednesdays the prior year. It meant changing my day off so I could leave early Wednesday, getting home at 2 AM on Thursday mornings, but I did it and it was a lot of fun.

NEV was originally a kart track. It had concrete bumps on the apron to keep the karts from going too low. I never saw a rider hit one but it realistically would have flipped the rider over the bars. Hit wrong it might have even broken a fork. The soft infield (mud, swamp, and deep grass) wouldn't be of any help either.

However it was almost impossible to get down to the apron at speed since it was banked for karts, not bikes. It was 318m so sort of similar to T-Town (333m) but it had half the bank (14 deg vs 28 deg). Even the resident pro track racer Kurt couldn't stay in the sprinter's lane when doing a big effort. I raced T-Town many years ago and it was totally different.

I video taped a race there (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSRsauBHAQA). I did the Bs, either I did well or I got shelled. There was a 3k pursuit the night of the video so a lot of guys had bigger gears fitted for it. I think I was 1:30 down or something to the winner in the pursuit. My report on the evening's racing here (http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2009/06/dateline-2045-17-june-2009.html).

To be fair I met and worked with Tony before this and felt very welcomed by him. When I crashed elsewhere in Aug 2009 (first ever broken bone in my life, wheelchair for a bit) he got the velodrome folks together and sent me a get well card. It was the only mass card I got from the cycling community.

I also appreciated Kurt's instruction and teaching, I learned a lot from what he taught and what he did. I never really met Jeff although he made comments to me (as pointed out in the linked post above).

A CX magazine did a two part spread on the NEV management change.
One side here (http://www.cxmagazine.com/managment-change-at-new-england-velodrome-cyclocross-racing).
Other side here (http://www.cxmagazine.com/eberhardt-interview-new-england-velodrome-cyclocross-racing).

To me it seemed like a lack of communication all around and some lack of following some protocol. It's all irrelevant now since the kart folks have more money and they now lease the property.

[oldpotatoe]

I'll tell you the exact reason there is no track in every state. I haven't won the Powerball.

Would have to be a big powerball...the one in Erie, CO I hear is pushing $3million...indoor ones, add a zero...

Took over a decade to get another one in Colorado. The great big, concrete one in Colorado Springs is under the thumb of the Olympic Training center...the few times I have driven by it, in the summer, there is never anybody even on it(shame)...

BIG issue here were locals and the NIMBY gig...a great big mega church was fine but not a velodrome..

[1centaur]

It's a mistake to confuse the level of demand with the economic viability of the enterprise. I suspect that like all things cycling, demand is high but the price elasticity of that demand is very high. Several people have already indicated that running a track doesn't pencil. So unless demand becomes magically inelastic (we all show up with our Benjamins, rather than our Lincolns, on race night), building one becomes about community support (financial an otherwise). And that is about LOTS more than cyclist demand.

Is demand for something free/nearly free really demand? All infrastructure costs money to build and maintain, the only question is who pays. The more economic demand there is, the more private parties should pay for the infrastructure. The more there's some public consensus of need/desire but the payment mechanism is unclear, the more likely public funds will be used (city parks or libraries, for example). In between, charitable foundations and very rich people are capable of all sorts of uneconomic gestures.

Where do velodromes fit in this framework? In the Boston area, I cannot imagine more than a couple of hundred regular and serious users of a track, most of whom do not have high discretionary incomes or free schedules. There may be a couple of thousand more who would not mind trying it at low cost; a few would like it and most would not come back often. And there are a few thousand more who'd get something out of a school outing to lark around it or get a lesson on the physics of it.

At some hundreds of thousands to low millions to buy land and build a fairly rudimentary track (much more to build a good one) those numbers do not pencil, as you put it. I'd say the numbers and uses I posited come nowhere close to the level of interest that would pass at the polls, especially in ultra-cheap Yankee country (50% of some towns will vote against a needed new school 70% paid for with state money because it's not free to them and they don't have a kid - I have seen it happen). So that leaves a non-economic non-governmental entity who loves cycling and is willing to fight zoning battles against bitter NIMBY cheapskates for several years.

Not holding my breath on that one.

A cycling track is an expensive item for a tiny need, like building a polo field or a show jumping arena or a bobsled run. In England they somehow associated track cycling with national pride and used public money to support track building. That kind of delusion will not fly here.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Absolutely right about the lack of public support. Even if 300 people showed up, that won't cover the property taxes. The trick in any of these rec infrastructure projects is to tie it into a broader use plan, so that it can either generate meaningful indirect economic benefits or attract enough popular support to warrant public financing. As you say, though, that's tough in frugal New England.

I don't see any if these plans taking root unless, as others have said, it comes out of some pharma/tech company's desire to do a highly visible community project. But that's just slightly more likely than the Red Sox relocating to NY.

[Look585]

The SF bay area is a metro of several million people w/in reasonable driving time, a good amount of cyclists broadly, weather that enables the use of an outdoor velodrome year round, *and* an existing facility with a passionate core that puts on weekly beginner clinics, training sessions, and racing.

Everything lines up for a robust trackie culture. Yet there are perhaps 100 "regular" and another 100-200 "occasional" racers. We struggle to balance the books and make our lease payment to the county (which owns the facility). Our regional elite and masters championships held this month attracted very low turnout. Some age group district champion jerseys went unclaimed as no one turned up.

These comments are in no way a slight to the very passionate core of individuals that keep the scene alive. Without the dozen folks on the board and another dozen that promote races, our small scene would be non-existent and facility would probably be mothballed. I am very grateful for the effort they make.

Sadly, velodromes and track racing seem to be way more popular on the internet than where the tires meet the concrete (or wood, or tarmac).

[buldogge]

Is there no public park(land) within the greater Boston area that a parcel within could be used for the velodrome? Perhaps an economically challenged area, as already mentioned, Worcester, Brockton, Fall River???

Our historic (and dilapidated) velodrome here in the STL is a St. Louis City park…so land acquisition is not an issue for the folks working hard to raise money (private and grants) to revitalize/repair it. Folks here eek by on the existing surface and seem to be gaining steam…the numbers will never be huge though, of course.

There was talk of moving it to Forest Park, for a "nicer location"…but…that never gained much steam…$$$/NIMBYism/parochialism/etc.

-Mark in St. Louis

[RobJ]

Comes down to cost vs. demand. If you think road cycling has lower viewership/interest in the States, wait until you see track cycling. I grew up in the shadow of the Lehigh County Velodrome and you could go see some of the best cyclists in the world compete on a regular basis and comparatively speaking there were small crowds. Today they still only charge $5/$8 a ticket and concessions are insanely cheap. As mentioned there just isn't much profit in it and does rely on the subsidies. Rodale Press (Bicycling, Runners World etc.) heavily funded the velodrome over the years and offered excellent development cycling programs in the summer. My nephew races there today as a result of those programs.

The US isn't sending their track sprint team to Worlds, so if they aren't supporting the sport at that level, the trickle down is even worse. Plus the requirement now is that all championship level racing is indoors. As mentioned that adds a huge expense. We are fighting the same issue here in DC. There's been talk about a velodrome for a quite while.

[sitzmark]

Sounds like all potential venues are competing for the same widely dispersed customer base. The proposal attempting to justify a facility in Coatesville, PA requires drawing velo and mixed-use customers from the entire eastern seaboard.

What is the status of Island 200 Velodrome http://www.island200.com in Pittsburg? Is that where the dust settled from the efforts in Coatesville?

The last series of "update" photos (undated) show concrete in the ground and a steel superstructure being erected, but reported local ordinances had stopped all work on the project. Anyone know if it has resumed?

http://www.island200.com/Files/Gallery/construction11small%2Ejpg

Just off the top of my head, my guess would be that an Eastern indoor Velodrome/event facility linked via Amtrak and located somewhere between Boston and DC would stand a better chance of drawing from the largest EC pop centers. To be convenient, Pittsburg requires air travel for most.

[shovelhd]

Or bus.

You need more than a facility. You need a fleet of rental bikes. You need a mechanic to keep them running and to change the gearing. You need staff to answer phones, open and close the facility, and rent bikes. You need coaches to provide instruction and do safety checks. If you want to offer a full plate of track racing, you need a motor setup and a driver. You need insurance to cover anything and everything.

Build it and they will come is not going to be a viable strategy. You need sponsorship and underwriting. Home Depot supports one of the nicest tracks in the country via naming rights. It wouldn't survive without it. Cleveland is doing it via a non-profit corporation that needs donations support to keep the lights on as well as move through the phases. Their idea of combining it with a multi-use sports facility is a very good one, if the community will accept it.

We had a developer come into town and push a multi-use sports facility. His main motivation was to provide an indoor motocross track, but the other half of it was for multi-use. It was shot down in flames by the community. They didn't want the noise and the traffic, even though both would have been minimal based on studies the developer provided. We ended up with two half empty office/retail buildings, a lot full of weeds, and a Tractor Supply. Nice trade.

[Grant McLean]

In England they somehow associated track cycling with national pride and used public money to support track building. That kind of delusion will not fly here.

The funding for fancy indoor velodromes are the kind of thing that comes
with an economic development package for international
sporting events like the olympics, commonwealth games, pan am games.

The one just outside Toronto is opening shortly, by all accounts is going to be a
spectacular facility. Should be interesting what happens down the road.

http://www.toronto2015.org/venue/milton-velodrome

http://vimeo.com/57022579

-g

[paredown]

The proposed NYC one was pretty much scuttled by nimby-ism and the fact that the pledge of $50 million was not enough money to build the facility at Brooklyn Bridge park.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/nyregion/joshua-p-rechnitz-abandons-plan-for-velodrome-in-brooklyn-bridge-park.html

Of course, now the "park" is going to turned over to housing developers, so I think a track would be preferable. Not sure if Rechnitz is still actively pursuing an alternative location.

The track I raced on in Vancouver (China Creek) was given to the local community college in an in-camera meeting and torn down. In the ensuing lawsuits, they were forced to help build an alternative location which is in the neighboring municipality of Burnaby (http://www.burnabyvelodrome.ca/). It is part of a multi-use facility--and the other users keep trying to get the cycle track kicked out! It is also a 200m track, not like the old 250m track that was built for the Commonwealth Games in 1954.

Their rationale for tearing the original one down was 'no one ever used it'--a complete crock. The biggest problem it had though was that it was an uncovered track in the PNW--so the new facility has at least solved that problem.

[sitzmark]

...Their idea of combining it with a multi-use sports facility is a very good one, if the community will accept it.

Even the multi-use portion of the facility in the Coatesville proposal was $200K/yr underwater IIRC. Maybe it was $400K. Didn't review in depth. Multi-use in Pittsburg is a better play.

Unfortunately my gut is that track racing is kind of like slalom ski racing. Too specialized and too "ridged" for most of the younger generations. Speed events are marginally more attractive. Freestyle is what's cool now and the biggest draw. There seems to be a similar parallel in the generational cycling world ... discipline -> freestyle. Doesn't suggest longterm success for Velodromes, unless a well-financed strategic development/marketing effort is undertaken along with the venues to make track racing exciting to a broader audience. Arena football, MLS, etc ... all took focused effort and time to gain critical mass.

[OldCrank]

Who's going to Londonderry for some outside fun?
I wonder how the surface is...

From FB:

Northeast Velodrome

Time to dust off your bikes and lube your chains! We'll be opening the gates Sunday at 9 AM and holding an Open Track event at 10 AM led by Kolie Moore with a refresher clinic on track protocol and etiquette followed by some structured training and maybe ending up with a few training races.

[Ti Designs]

- Egos seem to get involved.

Yup. Tony ran a good program at New England Velodrome, then it changed hands 'cause Jeff wanted his own track...

[ptourkin]

In San Diego, we operate under a Special Use Permit from the City of San Diego in the Balboa Park complex. We do not pay rent and are lucky to have the city paying for our utilities - mainly the lights at night but are responsible for everything else and it is expensive. Our current resurfacing project went from a projected three weeks down time to almost a year and is quite expensive. After some missteps, we're able to continue it due to the generosity of a project manager and much improvised ingenuity.

One barrier to new outdoor construction seems to be the lack of expertise in this country. Paving correctly takes equipment which is not readily available in the U.S. While there are contractors who do concrete skate parks on a steep bank, good luck finding someone with experience putting all weather asphalt down at a 26 degree angle outside of Japan.

We're hoping for a July reopening, just in time to host SNCA Masters championships which is moving South due to the Chargers' move to the Carson complex -- the irony...

[Buzz Killington]

Not New England, but there were plans for a velodrome at a mobile home park no more than 10 minutes from my house. Hudson Valley Velodrome if I recall. Maybe 10 years ago? I've been pretty active in the local cycling scene, but I never heard anything else about it. Though I overheard someone say they drove up to take a look and nothing but a hole in the ground.

Wish it can come to fruition, it'd be a nice asset to the area. Not sure how you could ever make any money off a project like that.....

[jumphigher]

Sometimes I think cycling has really died in the US. I live near Portland Or and while the city itself is jammed with bike commuters, I rarely see other riders on my daily 40 mile fitness rides on the outskirts of the city. Definitely rare are people that look like serious riders. I'm not surprised velodromes are always in the red where they exist at all.

[93KgBike]

The old vet stadium would have been a great bike facilty what with the 500ft vert wrap around ramp and room for a velodrome and a bmx track on the field. I'm sure the jail they built underneath could be shops and gyms etc. hmmm.

[11.4]

I've been through this enough times and it's always the same discussion:

1. To build a track, you can usually find some land that can be given in exchange for zoning concessions on other land, or that kind of thing. If you're going to make the velodrome vaguely profitable, even with a fair percentage of contributed (donated) income, you need enough parking and other amenities that all take up acreage. A dining patio or restaurant area or the like is invaluable, and makes the track much more useful for other events. Then you have the cost of the track itself, which hopefully a corporation can pick up but which still can cost $3 to $8 million for an open air track, depending on design and quality (you can only make a concrete or asphalt track so steep and it's hard to do a tunnel, sophisticated angles, and so on with concrete or asphalt).

2. A track has to be multipurpose, i.e., it has to fit other sports and other activities like local concerts, rugby practice, soccer, and so on. The Burnaby track actually has an ice rink in the middle. All that adds cost and complexity.

3. People scrimp on decent bleachers or don't put enough in, but any other activities need ample seating. And if the track really succeeds, it needs seating too.

4. A roof is great, but also very expensive. If you have sufficient bleachers, it costs even more. You need restrooms for spectators and also in the infield for riders and for things like drug testing. There's a lot of storage, a lot of ramps for motos, and so on, that people don't think about as costs that are essential for an indoor track.

5. An indoor 250 m track can accommodate perhaps 550 members, or about 250 actual racers a week, assuming 3 days of racing per week. At that point you're splitting a couple fields each night on a track that size, which puts you at the limit of utility. Charge 550 members $100 per year, you're only getting $55K a year. Charge 250 racers an average $20 per week for racing, that works out to $5000 a week or $80,000 for 16 weeks of actual racing (which can still be optimistic, given weather, holidays, and so on). So you have actual revenue of $135,000 to cover all race expenses, prize lists, officiating, staff, maintenance, and on and on. With a longer season in Texas I can make it work better than this, but we're talking about New England. The biggest challenge of a track is to keep it open and cover operating expenses after it's built, and these numbers are hard to pencil out for many organizations.

6. It's pretty close to a full-time job to develop alternate sports and activities for the track, to build sponsorships, to build community and school and junior programs, and so on. It's a tough job that requires some real experience and a strong volunteer board, and it burns people out. Even if you start with a track director and a board, in a very few years you'll be struggling to find people to run it.

7. There are many other issues, but fundamentally, it takes a combination of lucky events to bring a tract of land, a major construction sponsor, the right management, the right officials, and a development and promotion plan all together in the same place. And then it takes the same in spades to keep it open year after year. The Northeast imposes weather constraints on a season, on construction methods and durability, and other matters. It doesn't mean you can't build a track successfully, but it's several years of development and planning and some significant business and fundraising skills to make it happen. It's hard to make the arguments to sponsors, townships, and communities at large to support a track that only supports 550 members when that same piece of land, with virtually no construction costs, can support around 4,000 soccer players in a season. Now I love track and have grown multiple tracks in the US and raced at many all over the world. But stars have to be aligned and you have to commit years of effort and skill to making the track a success. The tipping point from success to failure comes pretty close to the point where Northeast weather limits construction choices and season lengths, and when riders can only ride track events for perhaps 16-19 weeks a year, it's hard to pull them from the crit circuits or the big road races.

[ultraman6970]

Wow this is a good analysis. I was going to say... "there's no money in cycling and there is no way to cover the costs of the installations in a short term, so who ever put the money to build the track will back up right away". That's the reason you have the gvmt involved in the building and maintenance of the installations maybe forever, thats why many are in public parks like the brian piccolo in miami that is a great track IMO.

[GParkes]

Six months ago, in a dead of winter moment of malaise, I posted to a couple of FB cycling groups the question of who's interested in a velodrome. Surprised at the number of responses. In the Albany/Schenectady area of NY, there is some warehouse space that is available that could accommodate a 'drome. It wouldn't be pretty at the start, but with economic development funds and some creative financing, there is a much greater likelihood of the project cash flowing. Existing unused facilities are cheaper than new construction. Ancillary services would need to be added to supplement revenue. During winter/cold months, indoor racing is a very attractive option for for those of us in our area (and other of course). Power classes/coaching, etc could be done within the facility, small repair shop, etc, etc. I just don't have the energy, but it did cross my mind.

[ultraman6970]

The only people I know were able to install a velodrome in a building and pretty much self pay for everything are the people in London, ontario.

Would be good to ask them how they did it.

[paredown]

<snip> The Burnaby track actually has an ice rink in the middle. All that adds cost and complexity.<snip>

Great analysis--but just wanted to add that the Burnaby track shares the space with the provincial Volleyball association, not ice skating.

As I mentioned previously, it was a miracle the track got built at all. The original China Creek track that I raced on was built for the 1954 British Empire Games--made famous by the first sub-four minute mile in competition between Bannister and Landy. But it was an all wood track, and not covered. And as your analysis points out, light use (in a city where it rains a lot) was the consequence--the city Parks Board ostensible maintained it (which consisted of mainly cutting the grass) and it slowly decayed.

When I got to use it, it was the bike boom era, and there was a real resurgence of interest, so a group of cyclists got federal money for rebuilding (sadly that included reducing the height of the bankings for cost reasons)--stabilizing the structure and resurfacing. It then had a good ten years of decent use--but still limited by the fact that you cannot ride on a track when it is wet/damp. Then the land the track was on was sold to Vancouver City college without any cyclist input--because it was claimed it was not being used enough.

The cyclists (who had been involved in getting the federal monies for the rebuild) sued--and won--so the City was required to contribute funding to the construction of the new track in Burnaby because of the fact that federal money had been used for the rebuilding of the old one. I believe that the final design of the 'Harry Jerome Sports Center' came out of complex meetings with Sports BC, the local governments (Burnaby and Vancouver), pressure from the cyclists. It helped at that point that Burnaby was developing the area where the track is as a sports complex area. And a decent track resulted--200m instead of 250m, in a shared use facility--but even then sufficient money was not set aside for maintenance, the track surface deteriorated, and the track closed 2001-ish.

Then the second miracle happened--despite a lot of pressure from the Volleyball group to claim the facility as their own, the parties involved agreed to rebuild the track surface. At this point I believe it is closed again for floor repairs (June).

The second track in BC--originally the Juan de Fuca velodrome, outside Victoria, had a similar checkered history. It was also built for a Commonwealth Games (1994)--but fell into disuse almost immediately after, almost was closed by the local mayor, and has survived--barely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westshore_Velodrome Victoria is a little drier, so despite being an outdoor track (330m) it is usable more days.

Probably a longer story than needed but it kind of illustrates your point. Track cycling is a niche sport, you likely need government funding to build and maintain a track, and you need to have a real commitment from an active group to press for the interests of the cyclists. Swimmers are lucky--even though the economics are tough, at least pools and/or diving complexes can pay costs through open swimming times, skating rinks too. But we do support other niche sports with expensive facilities--eg bobsled/luge and others so it is not impossible.

[11.4]

just wanted to add that the Burnaby track shares the space with the provincial Volleyball association, not ice skating.

Thanks for correcting me. I was thinking back to older days when they had the rink. It kept them alive for a long time because rinks were in more demand than tracks.

[ptourkin]

Thanks for correcting me. I was thinking back to older days when they had the rink. It kept them alive for a long time because rinks were in more demand than tracks.

Carson has volleyball in the infield too.

[pbarry]

Boulder County has one, built on the cheap, privately, by a successful shop owner and a cyclist-general contractor. IMO, It won't hold up over time due to cheap materials and no roof, but it's here and seems to be a success.

[Polyglot]

When I lived in Frankfurt Germany in the 80's, they had a wonderful outdoor velodrome that contained 2 outdoor skating rinks during the winter and used the infield for other sports during the summer. It too closed because it was not viable from a financial point of view.