Watch Out: NYPD Starts 2-Week Bicyclist Crackdown Today!

[johnmdesigner]

Enjoy!

http://gothamist.com/2014/08/13/nypd_starts_2-week_bicycle_safety_e.php

[fiamme red]

I'm thinking about getting a mirror for my commute just so that I can see if there's a cop car behind me.

[thegunner]

to be fair, there's been a lot of asshats running reds in the park... even i hate them.

[Louis]

Better be careful - this is how they crack down in St Louis:

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/11/a1166786-12b5-50ba-a33f-560dd98feb9c/53ea77859866e.preview-620.jpg

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/0e/50e58a91-70e2-5b3d-8d55-bc26586ba5eb/53ea1055c6c32.preview-620.jpg

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/39/8390bb1c-64c8-5308-bbf8-208f7ae767cc/53ea11c0f209f.preview-620.jpg

[shovelhd]

So what's wrong with cracking down on douchebag cyclists?

[lonoeightysix]

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever"

[goonster]

So what's wrong with cracking down on douchebag cyclists?
The collateral damage.

[zzy]

to be fair, there's been a lot of asshats running reds in the park... even i hate them.

In fairness, this usually involves pulling over whole pelotons in the park who are not endangering anyone with static checkpoints (usually near the 72ed enterence). Of course the idiot on a brakeless fixie bombing the park the wrong way and swerving/skidding all over the place gets ignored because.. effort.

[54ny77]

That's the Campy police.

"Sir, I'm going to have to take you in, you're riding a generic no-name Asian parts-equipped bike."



http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/0e/50e58a91-70e2-5b3d-8d55-bc26586ba5eb/53ea1055c6c32.preview-620.jpg

[Louis]

That's the Campy police.

"Sir, I'm going to have to take you in, you're riding a generic no-name Asian parts-equipped bike."

But, but, but, the Campy hubs don't have those cool axle extender thingies....

[Rebel_Biker]

I got pulled over a couple of years ago in central park during a crack down week. Another roadie was on my wheel for about 1/2 a lap. We were dodging heavy traffic in horse ···· alley, traffic included runners overtaking the bike lane, horses, pedicabs and walkers.

The cop got out of his car to give us tickets and I apologized for my aggressive movement. The other cyclist started to give the cop attitude about the runners in the bike lane and where should he cycle.

The cop very politely told me I can go. The other cyclist was written a ticket.

[Louis]

I apologized for my aggressive movement. The other cyclist started to give the cop attitude about the runners in the bike lane and where should he cycle.

The cop very politely told me I can go. The other cyclist was written a ticket.

So much for living up to your forum handle ;)

[54ny77]

Rule #1 with NYPD cops (or any cops for that matter) on bike, car, walking, etc: YOU WON'T WIN AN ARGUMENT then and there. Period. Full stop. You could be Alan Friggin Dershowitz but that don't matter in the moment.

Be nice, courteous, and if the cop's an arse, just stfu and deal with it in the courts.

I got pulled over once going very fast in my car. Pulled over, rolled my window down, hands on wheel, and answered questions very matter of fact and honest, yes I was speeding, yes I was going [x] mph (he asked how fast I thought I was going, I told him my estimate and we were within a few mph so he knew I wasn't b.s.'ing).

Turned out we had a funny chat on cars and he actually reduced the speed (it was still really, really bad, but it could have been worse, i.e., jail).

[Louis]

yes I was going [x] mph (he asked how fast I thought I was going, I told him my estimate and we were within a few mph so he knew I wasn't b.s.'ing).

This drives me nuts. One of these days I just may smart-off and tell him something like "Well, if you don't know how fast I was going, I sure as h3ll am not going to tell you."

On second thought, I probably won't do that, but why should I have to incriminate myself?

[Louis]

Another picture from St Louis taken earlier today (Wednesday)

Those guys sure like their toys...

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/08/14/us/MISSOURI/MISSOURI-master1050.jpg

[54ny77]

louis, it was because i had my big boy pants on and knew i broke the law and was ready to deal with it like an adult. self-incriminate? umm, in my circumstances, that would have been comical. like i said, i was going very, very fast and could have easily been tossed in jail right then and there. and yes i could have said nothing, spent several thousand in lawyer bills debating the calibration and methodology of the laser/radar unit, yadda yadda, meanwhile on that morning i'd have missed an important day at work because i'd have been hauled off to the pokey.

in addition to being straightforward in my answers, it probably helped too that i was wearing work clothes and looked professional, not some punk in wife beater and tats and a go-fast car.

[Louis]

I agree that giving them the least amount of trouble is the safest approach, especially for guys in our demographic. Folks like Eric Garner and Michael Brown don't have it quite as easy when it come to dealing with the police.

[Rebel_Biker]

So much for living up to your forum handle ;)

agreed

I chose me handle from my college. I graduated from UNLV, and am a Running Rebel.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[r_mutt]

Another picture from St Louis taken earlier today (Wednesday)

Those guys sure like their toys...

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/08/14/us/MISSOURI/MISSOURI-master1050.jpg

Why do the cops have to be militarized? It's completely unnecessary to have a militarized police.

[shovelhd]

The collateral damage.

If you are not breaking the law, then you are not collateral. Are you saying that if you are riding around Central Park at a reasonable speed, staying in the bike lane and not endangering anyone, you are going to be pulled over just because you are riding a bike? I find that hard to believe.

[54ny77]

Because DHS gave 'em stuff to play make believe.

I see that kind of thing and have to laugh--and that's coming from someone with plenty of law enforcement and military in family.

Last summer a similar thing happened in my area, total lockdown and train cops (yes, Metro train cops, complete with fat guts) fully decked out in GI Joe gear sweeping the trains, ordering everyone (passengers, including little old ladies) to put their hands in the air, with half-cocked full auto guns chasing a middle aged fat mexican dude who held up a local bank.

Why do the cops have to be militarized? It's completely unnecessary to have a militarized police.

[thegunner]

If you are not breaking the law, then you are not collateral. Are you saying that if you are riding around Central Park at a reasonable speed, staying in the bike lane and not endangering anyone, you are going to be pulled over just because you are riding a bike? I find that hard to believe.

i was given a ticket at 6:30 am for:

1) approaching a crosswalk which was admittedly red for me, slowing to ~5 mph, and unclipping
2) checking both ways to find that no one was in the park or anywhere remotely close to the crosswalk
3) clipping back in and rolling through

yes, technically i broke the law, but i don't think i came close to even endangering one of the many rats that roam the park at that hour.

[Mr. Pink]

Maybe they've been practicing the flying chokehold to battle all of those incredibly dangerous bicyclists. "Watch me clothesline this fixie pixie, Sarge. Woohoo."

[oldpotatoe]

Why do the cops have to be militarized? It's completely unnecessary to have a militarized police.

Bad guys are armed better than they are??? Just a thought...give me $1000(probably less) and about 2 weeks and I'll bet I can get a full auto AK, with ammo and a Social security card....I'll bet they will throw on a bullet proof vest, military-grade.

[OtayBW]

If you are not breaking the law, then you are not collateral.I'm wondering how the 2 reporters who were arrested in a McDonalds last night figure into this equation....

[josephr]

Bad guys are armed better than they are??? Just a thought...give me $1000(probably less) and about 2 weeks and I'll bet I can get a full auto AK, with ammo and a Social security card....I'll bet they will throw on a bullet proof vest, military-grade.

forget that...by lunchtime today you can have the $99 Wal-Mart shot-gun special, several boxes of ammo, a hacksaw and you're ready to clear the streets!
Joe

[Mr. Pink]

Bad guys are armed better than they are??? Just a thought...give me $1000(probably less) and about 2 weeks and I'll bet I can get a full auto AK, with ammo and a Social security card....I'll bet they will throw on a bullet proof vest, military-grade.

Dude, 95% of the people those soldiers (sorry, cops) are beating down couldn't come up with 500 bucks if one of those soldiers (sorry again, cops) had one of their military grade weapons pointed at the head of their small child. These are very poor people surrounded by an army. It's quite shocking to watch, especially since it's almost entirely a white black issue. Not one soldier (whoops, did it again) of color. Not one. In Selma it was fire hoses. Today it's tanks and kevlar and rifles that could tear a person into pieces.
Why is that soldier pointing a weapon of that caliber at an unarmed crowd in broad daylight? Did any of these people shoot back?

[Rebel_Biker]

If you are not breaking the law, then you are not collateral. Are you saying that if you are riding around Central Park at a reasonable speed, staying in the bike lane and not endangering anyone, you are going to be pulled over just because you are riding a bike? I find that hard to believe.

You are correct that you will not get ticketed for obeying the rules of the park. The police can get a bit nit picky holding you to the strictest rules. I would get my miles in early in the morning and later at night, and we would not have any problems with getting speeding tickets and tickets for riding out of the bike lane. There are no cars allowed from 6pm to 9am, so bikers have the car lanes.

It is all fair if they would force the runners and pedestrians to obey the rules as well. The bike lanes are often filled with runners, who have their own lanes, and they are often running in the wrong direction. CP is counter clockwise.

The NYC parks, CP and Prospect, have become dangerous for bikers and runners. Collisions happen all the time. My friend had an unfortunate collision with a runner who was running in the wrong direction. He was only going around 10mph on the cut through, we were doing Harlem Hill repeats early in the morning. They both moved in the same direction and she grabbed his bars, but was not strong enough to bring him to a stop. His momentum pushed her backwards and she slammed her head on the pavement. It was like watching a NFL player getting hit. We waited until an ambulance came for her. He felt horrible. She was a tri athlete and blamed herself. Although, I would put it at 60/40.

Long story short, a doctor came by while we were waiting. He works in the emergency room at the closest hospital to the park in Harlem. He told us about the amount of patients who came in from collisions with cyclist. Some of them had extensive injuries.

NYC is crowded. Bikers are outnumbered. The future will probably bring restrictions on hours the bikers can ride in the park

[thegunner]

You are correct that you will not get ticketed for obeying the rules of the park. The police can get a bit nit picky holding you to the strictest rules. I would get my miles in early in the morning and later at night, and we would not have any problems with getting speeding tickets and tickets for riding out of the bike lane. There are no cars allowed from 6pm to 9am, so bikers have the car lanes.

summer hours must be different, 7:40 is when i start seeing taxis on the west side.

[echappist]

If you are not breaking the law, then you are not collateral. Are you saying that if you are riding around Central Park at a reasonable speed, staying in the bike lane and not endangering anyone, you are going to be pulled over just because you are riding a bike? I find that hard to believe.

background here is that after the last crackdown in 2011, a gentlemen's agreement was that cyclists should be on their very best behaviours from 8am to 8pm. At other times, if there's no pedestrians in the crosswalk, cyclists can run red lights, especially really early or really late in the day.

i was given a ticket at 6:30 am for:

1) approaching a crosswalk which was admittedly red for me, slowing to ~5 mph, and unclipping
2) checking both ways to find that no one was in the park or anywhere remotely close to the crosswalk
3) clipping back in and rolling through

yes, technically i broke the law, but i don't think i came close to even endangering one of the many rats that roam the park at that hour.

damn, sorry to hear that. i remember the good ole days in 2011. no fun

[echappist]

summer hours must be different, 7:40 is when i start seeing taxis on the west side.

+/- 20 minutes; they are counting on the cops not being there...

[Rebel_Biker]

summer hours must be different, 7:40 is when i start seeing taxis on the west side.

Wow

Did they change the leash laws recently? Dog are allowed off leash from 9pm to 9am. I did not think they would open traffic to the public until the dogs were leashed.

I know our CRCA races would sometimes have a rouge dog in the path of the peleton.

You learn a lot about the issues speaking to park user eat 7am while marshaling races. Sometimes you get more than you bargained for.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Dead Man]

Bad guys are armed better than they are??? Just a thought...give me $1000(probably less) and about 2 weeks and I'll bet I can get a full auto AK, with ammo and a Social security card....I'll bet they will throw on a bullet proof vest, military-grade.

How many full autos, or "machineguns," as the ATF defines 'em, do you hear about used in crimes in the US? The only one I can even think of was the North Hollywood shootout in California with those two dudes decked out in EOD armor and wielding modified POS Chinese Norincos.

[goonster]

I know our CRCA races would sometimes have a rouge dog in the path of the peleton.
Red dogs are the worst! :banana:

[malcolm]

Dude, 95% of the people those soldiers (sorry, cops) are beating down couldn't come up with 500 bucks if one of those soldiers (sorry again, cops) had one of their military grade weapons pointed at the head of their small child. These are very poor people surrounded by an army. It's quite shocking to watch, especially since it's almost entirely a white black issue. Not one soldier (whoops, did it again) of color. Not one. In Selma it was fire hoses. Today it's tanks and kevlar and rifles that could tear a person into pieces.
Why is that soldier pointing a weapon of that caliber at an unarmed crowd in broad daylight? Did any of these people shoot back?

I hear you and I agree but this is nowhere near Selma, we have made huge strides since that time in our history and unfortunately have much farther to go.

I think the biggest problem with a militarized police force is it changes the mindset of the police and the policed. It moves them from a service orientation to enforcement. Granted enforcement is part of their jobs but they are still public servants first.

It's funny how much fear has to do with this. The young males usually black or Hispanic are afraid of the cops and the cops are afraid of them. Now you have the situation where when confronted the first impulse is to run. I certainly don't know how to fix it but the relationship between the population that needs them the most and the police has certainly broken down. Zero respect on either side, for the most part.

[johnmdesigner]

http://gothamist.com/2014/08/14/cyclist_kills_jogger.php

[malcolm]

Hildy sounds like a remarkable woman

[Mr. Pink]

I hear you and I agree but this is nowhere near Selma, we have made huge strides since that time in our history and unfortunately have much farther to go.

I think the biggest problem with a militarized police force is it changes the mindset of the police and the policed. It moves them from a service orientation to enforcement. Granted enforcement is part of their jobs but they are still public servants first.

It's funny how much fear has to do with this. The young males usually black or Hispanic are afraid of the cops and the cops are afraid of them. Now you have the situation where when confronted the first impulse is to run. I certainly don't know how to fix it but the relationship between the population that needs them the most and the police has certainly broken down. Zero respect on either side, for the most part.

You talk rad though both sides are on somewhat equal footing, that the "fear" is the same on both sides. Absurd. The kid ran, his friend has told anyone who will listen, because he had already been shot and the cop was trying to shoot him again! Wouldn't you run? And how in the world can those soldiers be afraid of an unarmed crowd in broad daylight carrying that much weaponry and wearing so much armor? For crying out loud. Listen, I grew up with street riots in my time, but I thought that our law enforcement organizations had learned how to control crowds without this sort of jackboot thuggery. It is quite a shame and embarrassing as an American to watch.

[malcolm]

You talk rad though both sides are on somewhat equal footing, that the "fear" is the same on both sides. Absurd. The kid ran, his friend has told anyone who will listen, because he had already been shot and the cop was trying to shoot him again! Wouldn't you run? And how in the world can those soldiers be afraid of an unarmed crowd in broad daylight carrying that much weaponry and wearing so much armor? For crying out loud. Listen, I grew up with street riots in my time, but I thought that our law enforcement organizations had learned how to control crowds without this sort of jackboot thuggery. It is quite a shame and embarrassing as an American to watch.

Wait a second dude I was talking police impoverished neighborhoods in general not this specific incident. Never mentioned anything about who was more afraid or who had the reason to be more afraid.
I stand by my statement your just reading context into it that isn't there.

[fiamme red]

http://gothamist.com/2014/08/14/cyclist_kills_jogger.phpThe Gothamist writer couldn't even get this second-hand story right. Irv Schachter's wife's name is Hindy, not Hildy.

Irv Schachter was a long-time ride leader for New York Cycle Club -- my first ride with the club was a memorable route to Bear Mountain that I did with Irv and Hindy as leaders.

[Louis]

More evidence in St Louis that those bike riders are up to no good:

[r_mutt]

Appropriately: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/us/ferguson-missouri-in-wake-of-clashes-calls-to-demilitarize-police.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=1

[Aaron O]

Wait a second dude I was talking police impoverished neighborhoods in general not this specific incident. Never mentioned anything about who was more afraid or who had the reason to be more afraid.
I stand by my statement your just reading context into it that isn't there.I got what you're saying and I think there's a lot of truth to it. I'm doing some work for a security services client once a week right now where I'm hearing Philly cops talk about their jobs and culture. I've never been too enamored of the PPD...but I can tell you that you're correct, they're afraid. We have a lot of people with nothing to lose running around and some of them do get shot, run over, attacked, etc. They sound a lot like my patents did talking about teaching in those schools - sort of hopeless, afraid and cynical.

Hopeless, afraid and cynical sounds an awful lot like the folks on the other end of the game as well. The rules are that we balance civil liberties with protecting society the same across the board (at least that's how it's supposed to work). In an area like camden NJ the threat of crime and need for protection is so much more, and the rules are that the balance doesn't change (most of the rules anyway). Except it does. You have people under threat from where they live, subject to the increased authoritarian balance...and they're pissed. They're caught in the middle and they get it from both ends.

[Dired]

A couple of days ago at around 9 PM there was a cop regulating central park drive traffic around the summer stage area. He was standing in the middle of the drive and had a bright flashlight that he was pointing at the oncoming cyclists... I mentioned that "blinding" wasn't a defined traffic signal and his response was something to the account of "slow down, one of your people killed someone here last night".

[leooooo]

A couple of days ago at around 9 PM there was a cop regulating central park drive traffic around the summer stage area. He was standing in the middle of the drive and had a bright flashlight that he was pointing at the oncoming cyclists... I mentioned that "blinding" wasn't a defined traffic signal and his response was something to the account of "slow down, one of your people killed someone here last night".

Figure the cop be happier since "our" people killed one of our own. Just doing their jobs for 'em, right?

[rwsaunders]

Another picture from St Louis taken earlier today (Wednesday)

Those guys sure like their toys...

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/08/14/us/MISSOURI/MISSOURI-master1050.jpg

Vladimir Putin would be proud.

[oldpotatoe]

Vladimir Putin would be proud.

But they aren't drunk....

[Bob Ross]

The Gothamist writer couldn't even get this second-hand story right. Irv Schachter's wife's name is Hindy, not Hildy.

Irv Schachter was a long-time ride leader for New York Cycle Club -- my first ride with the club was a memorable route to Bear Mountain that I did with Irv and Hindy as leaders.

Mine too! Irv & Hindy were a gateway drug (...in the best sense)

[malcolm]

I got what you're saying and I think there's a lot of truth to it. I'm doing some work for a security services client once a week right now where I'm hearing Philly cops talk about their jobs and culture. I've never been too enamored of the PPD...but I can tell you that you're correct, they're afraid. We have a lot of people with nothing to lose running around and some of them do get shot, run over, attacked, etc. They sound a lot like my patents did talking about teaching in those schools - sort of hopeless, afraid and cynical.

Hopeless, afraid and cynical sounds an awful lot like the folks on the other end of the game as well. The rules are that we balance civil liberties with protecting society the same across the board (at least that's how it's supposed to work). In an area like camden NJ the threat of crime and need for protection is so much more, and the rules are that the balance doesn't change (most of the rules anyway). Except it does. You have people under threat from where they live, subject to the increased authoritarian balance...and they're pissed. They're caught in the middle and they get it from both ends.

Very true. When I worked in the ER I would talk to families that lived in some rough areas and they were afraid of their neighbors and the police and wouldn't leave the house at night. Miserable way to live, caught in the middle. The fear on both sides just makes every thing that much worse.

[firerescuefin]

Vladimir Putin would be proud.

A show of excessive force discourages a lot of violence. A lesser force makes folks get big man syndrome. I have no context regarding the above picture, but if it keeps LE folks safe and discourages "peaceful protesters" from getting violent, then I am 100% behind it. To make it analogous to Putin is just dumb.

[EDS]

A show of excessive force discourages a lot of violence. A lesser force makes folks get big man syndrome. I have no context regarding the above picture, but if it keeps LE folks safe and discourages "peaceful protesters" from getting violent, then I am 100% behind it. To make it analogous to Putin is just dumb.

I think that a show of force can make sense, but there is also such a thing as an unjustified/disproportionate show of force and the resulting waste of resources (time, money, people, equipment, etc.).

We all want to feel safe, and we want our law enforcement officers to have the manpower and equipment to respond appropriately to threats, but our government coffers are not bottomless and we as a society need to accept that there is a certain amount of risk and personal responsibility involved in dailing living.

[93legendti]

No pictures of the rioting, looting or arson? Interesting...

[Aaron O]

I think that a show of force can make sense, but there is also such a thing as an unjustified/disproportionate show of force and the resulting waste of resources (time, money, people, equipment, etc.).

We all want to feel safe, and we want our law enforcement officers to have the manpower and equipment to respond appropriately to threats, but our government coffers are not bottomless and we as a society need to accept that there is a certain amount of risk and personal responsibility involved in dailing living.

^^^ This. It's a balancing act, and I have to wonder if that level of supply for a suburban police department is the solution or part of the problem.

[gdw]

Does anyone know how many protesters have been injured in the riots?

[rwsaunders]

A show of excessive force discourages a lot of violence. A lesser force makes folks get big man syndrome. I have no context regarding the above picture, but if it keeps LE folks safe and discourages "peaceful protesters" from getting violent, then I am 100% behind it. To make it analogous to Putin is just dumb.

It might be dumb by your definition, but I can draw the parallel and I bet that people in that neighborhood can as well. Especially when a dozen or so paramilitary looking white guys in a $300,000 armored vehicle with a sniper on top (taking aim) ask you to calm down. The violence started when the kid was killed and the riots are an extension of it.

[Aaron O]

What crime levels and instability justified these expenses to begin with?

[Dead Man]

I guess Americans are getting jealous of the Islamic State.

[Louis]

No pictures of the rioting, looting or arson? Interesting...

Maybe you should read the whole thread.

[PQJ]

What crime levels and instability justified these expenses to begin with?

9/11 and W. The gifts that keep on giving.

[josephr]

Does anyone know how many protesters have been injured in the riots?

nobody can take a body count when the press is getting run out of town.

http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/08/ferguson-police-arrested-reporters-from-the-washington-post-and-huffington-post/376050/

guess no one wants the real truth known.

[firerescuefin]

It might be dumb by your definition, but I can draw the parallel and I bet that people in that neighborhood can as well. Especially when a dozen or so paramilitary looking white guys in a $300,000 armored vehicle with a sniper on top (taking aim) ask you to calm down. The violence started when the kid was killed and the riots are an extension of it.


I don't like that a reasonable percentage of the crowd had violent intentions. Because of this they were told to disperse. They didn't.

There is a reason they want to project the idea of overwhelming force. It works. Would you rather have a lesser force out there and it turns into a blood bath?

I spent 3 years in the Balkans during the Kosovo/Bosnian conflict. I spent 2 years throughout the middle east during this last go around. I've worked alongside and trained with police officers (in a tactical medic support role). I don't see the parallel between what Putin is doing in the Ukraine and some SWAT guys standing in front of an APC. Nor do I have a problem that the department has an APC.

As a side note. The pressure for city departments (Police/Fire) to create a force that demographically resembles the populous is high right now and has been for the last 10-15 years, but it's ratcheting up even more. A large percentage of these target populations do not want to be in those career fields. Additionally, you'd be shocked by the percentage of people that are unable to pass background checks (White, Black, Brown...ie ALL). Not sure what your answer to that would be, but I'd love to hear it. My answer is that we get into the schools where these populations are and sell the professions as noble and attainable and provide the kids with a roadmap to get there, so we develop high caliber candidates, not by putting candidates in willy-nilly to fulfill someone's campaign promise. Unfortunately, that idea takes vision, patience, resources, and effort.... something that most politicians don't have much of a stomach for.

[spdcyclist]

9/11 and W. The gifts that keep on giving.

Of course, it's all W's fault... Boy is that getting old.

[r_mutt]

It's Homeland Security, stupid.

[Louis]

A large percentage of these target populations do not want to be in those career fields.

If I had been harassed by a given occupation from the time I was 12 years old I doubt I would be interested in choosing that profession either, but I think this is a huge simplification of the issue.

I doubt the Ferguson police department is making any significant attempt whatsoever to integrate and come anywhere close the same racial distribution as the population they supposedly "serve and protect." I can only hope that will change - as of today Ferguson is 65% black, and the police force of 53 officers (probably 52 going forward) has only 3 blacks. I quoted those numbers from memory, so they may not be 100% correct, but they're close.

[firerescuefin]

It's a complex problem for sure and I understand your sentiment, but firefighters aren't thought of as the bad guys and we still have issues attracting minority candidates. I really think these communities need to grow the next generation of emergency responders from a young age (in these communities). Just my opinion.


If I had been harassed by a given occupation from the time I was 12 years old I doubt I would be interested in choosing that profession either, but I think this is a huge simplification of the issue.

I doubt the Ferguson police department is making any significant attempt whatsoever to integrate and come anywhere close the same racial distribution as the population they supposedly "serve and protect." I can only hope that will change - as of today Ferguson is 65% black, and the police force of 53 officers (probably 52 going forward) has only 3 blacks. I quoted those numbers from memory, so they may not be 100% correct, but they're close.

[pbarry]

I don't like that a reasonable percentage of the crowd had violent intentions. Because of this they were told to disperse. They didn't.

There is a reason they want to project the idea of overwhelming force. It works. Would you rather have a lesser force out there and it turns into a blood bath?

I spent 3 years in the Balkans during the Kosovo/Bosnian conflict. I spent 2 years throughout the middle east during this last go around. I've worked alongside and trained with police officers (in a tactical medic support role). I don't see the parallel between what Putin is doing in the Ukraine and some SWAT guys standing in front of an APC. Nor do I have a problem that the department has an APC.

As a side note. The pressure for city departments (Police/Fire) to create a force that demographically resembles the populous is high right now and has been for the last 10-15 years, but it's ratcheting up even more. A large percentage of these target populations do not want to be in those career fields. Additionally, you'd be shocked by the percentage of people that are unable to pass background checks (White, Black, Brown...ie ALL). Not sure what your answer to that would be, but I'd love to hear it. My answer is that we get into the schools where these populations are and sell the professions as noble and attainable and provide the kids with a roadmap to get there, so we develop high caliber candidates, not by putting candidates in willy-nilly to fulfill someone's campaign promise. Unfortunately, that idea takes vision, patience, resources, and effort.... something that most politicians don't have much of a stomach for.

Thank You for your service and your input here.

[Louis]

but firefighters aren't thought of as the bad guys and we still have issues attracting minority candidates.

True - I would think the citizens of Ferguson feel much more positively about their firefighters, regardless of their race, than they do about the police.