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View Full Version : The new (non-Ti) Merlin has arrived!


texbike
08-13-2014, 03:57 PM
Just saw this from Competitive Cyclist -

www.competitivecyclist.com/learn/reviewed-the-merlin-empire?cmp_id=EM_CC_PDM662_M1&mv_pc=r105 .

It seems that they've gone from an OK offering in an overcrowded market to a "maybe" OK offering in a REALLY overcrowded market.

THIS is an interesting comment in the write-up: "lugged carbon has been a disaster since the days of Vitus". I would beg to differ...

Texbike

oldpotatoe
08-13-2014, 04:39 PM
Just saw this from Competitive Cyclist -

www.competitivecyclist.com/learn/reviewed-the-merlin-empire?cmp_id=EM_CC_PDM662_M1&mv_pc=r105 .

It seems that they've gone from an OK offering in an overcrowded market to a "maybe" OK offering in a REALLY overcrowded market.

THIS is an interesting comment in the write-up: "lugged carbon has been a disaster since the days of Vitus". I would beg to differ...

Texbike

Mee too....Colnago, Parlee, even Calfee...plus many others..copy to CC, who sure seems clueless.

palincss
08-13-2014, 04:45 PM
What is "stuffy" geometry, I wonder?

CunegoFan
08-13-2014, 04:46 PM
I could not get past all the ranting about haters.

Vientomas
08-13-2014, 05:04 PM
"...not to mention that lugged carbon has been a disaster since the days of Vitus."

Really? Including Colnago?

R2D2
08-13-2014, 05:13 PM
"...not to mention that lugged carbon has been a disaster since the days of Vitus."

Really? Including Colnago?

Vitus had lugged carbon?
I thought they were screwed and glued aluminum.

Mark McM
08-13-2014, 05:24 PM
Vitus had lugged carbon?
I thought they were screwed and glued aluminum.

I believe your thinking of Alan, which used threaded and epoxied lugs.

Later, both Vitus and Alan made frames by bonding carbon tubes into aluminum lugs.

palincss
08-13-2014, 05:28 PM
I believe your thinking of Alan, which used threaded and epoxied lugs.

Later, both Vitus and Alan made frames by bonding carbon tubes into aluminum lugs.

You're forgetting the Vitus 979 http://schutt.org/velo/vitus-979.php which was indeed screwed & glued aluminum, and a favorite bicycle of racer Sean Kelly.

1centaur
08-13-2014, 05:40 PM
$4200 Sarto frameset. Big gap in size from 55.7 TT to 57.5 that might bother some 6 footers. Yes the lugged comment was dumb.

If a customer knows enough to know Sarto (from reading the Pez review perhaps), then he might think about a Sarto itself with more customization. I am guessing it's more than fine (they have a good reputation) and the price point is not bad for what it is, but I bet they do not sell many of them. Suspect their deal reflects that. I'll guess <50 a year.

bluesea
08-13-2014, 06:19 PM
Taking the name where it has never gone before-- stupid.

R2D2
08-13-2014, 06:27 PM
You're forgetting the Vitus 979 http://schutt.org/velo/vitus-979.php which was indeed screwed & glued aluminum, and a favorite bicycle of racer Sean Kelly.

Yea I was specifically thinking of the 979. That's what made Vitus famous wasn't it?

velotrack
08-13-2014, 06:28 PM
This "review" has been discussed before, but it's good to take a look at it again. When you see a product review for a bike CC is selling - run like hell.

saab2000
08-13-2014, 06:37 PM
Look frames were lugged until the fairly recent demise of the 585/595 series. I've hardly ever heard of folks who had Looks who found them to be anything other than a joy to ride.

Jason E
08-13-2014, 07:17 PM
Empire?!?!

Bunch of freakin' biters....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

jimmy-moots
08-13-2014, 07:50 PM
I ignored the review, looked at the pictures, got a bit excited and then discovered the price. Jimmy's bottom line: yeah, nah.

Then I read the review and was happy again. Many lols. CC says Merlin is good bike at everything with much advantage and zero disadvantage. Weooooow.

earlfoss
08-13-2014, 08:57 PM
I bet it rides great but at that price they're not going to sell very many at all. The market is really flooded with much more well known options. I've been looking at a new ti Merlin but am going to wait until they start blowing them out at end of season to make a final decision.

TBDSeattle
08-13-2014, 08:59 PM
Look frames were lugged until the fairly recent demise of the 585/595 series. I've hardly ever heard of folks who had Looks who found them to be anything other than a joy to ride.

^^^ This.

My Look 585 is one of the sweetest bikes I have ever ridden.

And, yes, I also have a Merlin. A 6/4 Merlin Works. Very stiff, but also a fun ride. The ride on the Look is a better fit for how I ride these days... to enjoy and not worry about how stiff the frame is in a sprint.

I bought both frames on this forum :banana::banana:
TBD

Idris Icabod
08-13-2014, 09:29 PM
I just got the Merlin 29er Ti frame. I thought it was a good deal for what it is, especially compared to a Moots or Form (who built the frame for CC). I do think the guy waiting for a deal might get one. I don't know how many they will sell, the customer service representatives where terrible at answering questions about the frame, rather surprising considering it is their house brand, it almost put me off.

ceolwulf
08-13-2014, 09:32 PM
$4200 Sarto frameset. Big gap in size from 55.7 TT to 57.5 that might bother some 6 footers. Yes the lugged comment was dumb.

If a customer knows enough to know Sarto (from reading the Pez review perhaps), then he might think about a Sarto itself with more customization. I am guessing it's more than fine (they have a good reputation) and the price point is not bad for what it is, but I bet they do not sell many of them. Suspect their deal reflects that. I'll guess <50 a year.

Yes I for one would definitely rather have a Sarto that was called a Sarto.

Mark McM
08-14-2014, 09:30 AM
You're forgetting the Vitus 979 http://schutt.org/velo/vitus-979.php which was indeed screwed & glued aluminum, and a favorite bicycle of racer Sean Kelly.

The web page sited says that the Vitus 979 joints were press-fit and epoxied, not screwed together.

pbarry
08-14-2014, 09:44 AM
Yes I for one would definitely rather have a Sarto that was called a Sarto.

Exactly. If anything, this association deminishes the Sarto brand. :eek:

bargainguy
08-14-2014, 02:08 PM
The web page sited says that the Vitus 979 joints were press-fit and epoxied, not screwed together.

Vitus/Bador frames - press fit, swaged & bonded;

Alan frames (same 979 tubing but different company) - threaded and bonded, i.e. "screwed & glued."

earlfoss
08-14-2014, 02:25 PM
The Empire looks to be a Competitive Cyclist version of Sarto's Cima Coppi frameset. I dig the Merlin graphics more than those on the Sarto.

wallymann
08-14-2014, 02:45 PM
Vitus/Bador frames - press fit, swaged & bonded;

Alan frames (same 979 tubing but different company) - threaded and bonded, i.e. "screwed & glued."

and then the notorious peugeot galaxie...the flawed friction-fit "pechiney process" -- completely without adhesive or threading or welding. better make sure your dental insurance is paid-in-full!

http://www.cyclespeugeot.com/images/1987_Pechiney_Process.jpg

http://www.twowheeldreams.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IMG_56391.jpg

Idris Icabod
08-14-2014, 02:48 PM
One of the advantages for buying a Merlin 29er Ti mountain frame (as far a I saw it) was I could get the frame immediately. I initially thought, why not get a Form, after all they build this. If you look at the Merlin it is actually cheaper than the equivalent Form frame, had it at my house in 3 days and hopefully I get CC's after sales service (although I do think they are on a slippery slope since Brendan departed).

I guess the same applies to the carbon Empire, I'm not sure how easy it is to deal with Sarto but the market for carbon road bikes is a lot more crowded than Ti mountain bikes.

Waldo
08-14-2014, 03:30 PM
I've been on, around, and studiously reading about bikes since 1986, but w-t-f is Sarto? Never heard about it until last year.

Peter B
08-14-2014, 03:42 PM
I've been on, around, and studiously reading about bikes since 1986, but w-t-f is Sarto? Never heard about it until last year.

Sarto is an Italian manufacturer, primarily involved in contract building IIRC. I believe Crumpton sources his stock sized Corsa T carbon framesets from them.

KidWok
08-14-2014, 04:38 PM
^^^ This.

My Look 585 is one of the sweetest bikes I have ever ridden.

And, yes, I also have a Merlin. A 6/4 Merlin Works. Very stiff, but also a fun ride. The ride on the Look is a better fit for how I ride these days... to enjoy and not worry about how stiff the frame is in a sprint.

I bought both frames on this forum :banana::banana:
TBD

Glad to hear that Merlin is still treating you well. It's a nice one.

Tai

Jeff N.
08-14-2014, 08:30 PM
Their limited sizing is a turn-off.

pbarry
08-14-2014, 08:59 PM
CC is clueless in marketing the bought-brand.

[Sarto has well-earned respect: Solid people building great bikes, whatever the sticker says.]

This second foray in the remake is so far away from the intent that started in Somerville... The "review" digs the hole deeper.

Wisco
08-14-2014, 09:09 PM
What is sad is that they could have tugged at the heartstrings of us old guys who lusted after a Merlin when we were young, but instead they are going to get their ass handed to them by every production carbon bike out there.

I believe the kids call this "a fail" these days.

Joachim
08-14-2014, 09:15 PM
I've been on, around, and studiously reading about bikes since 1986, but w-t-f is Sarto? Never heard about it until last year.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/tech-n-spec/sarto-bicycles-custom-energia-disc/#.U-1tD2eCPCQ