OT: Seriously Apple?!

[thirdgenbird]

My wife and I cannot sync music to our iPhones without doing multiple operating system upgrades to our apple computer running osx leapord. Somewhat surprisingly, I can sync my iphone using Windows XP, a six year older OS.

[JWDR]

This is one of the reason we got rid of our Mac and bought a windows laptop.

[velotrack]

I have no contribution to this thread other than their cables suck. Stop breaking. I don't even charge my phone in weird places or abuse the ends of the new tiny plug. And they're expensive to replace out of warranty.

[thirdgenbird]

Don't get me started on cables. Apple laptop chargers are one of the most pathetic consumer electronics I've seen.

I guess I will backdate my OS to XP (the same one I left for apple in 08) so I can use my phone

[HenryA]

Apple operates on the theory that everyone who uses their products is a 24/7 connected 20 something (no offense intended to anyone) who lives and breathes Apple and jumps on every update that comes out immediately. And, who mainlines Apple marketing thought directly into their veins.

That is who Apple wants you to be. Most of us are not that.
Consequently, we are often aggravated by Apples insistence that we behave as they wish.

From their perspective, they have to push all the new stuff on every user to be sure that we get the total wonderfulness of their latest gimmick or scheme and they get our money and our continued allegiance. I find it off-putting - I prefer to choose for myself, when I want, or not.

It gonna get hot when iOS8 and the next OS for computers is released. I suspect we're gonna get hit with another round of do-it-their-way. A real big dose.


HEY YOU KIDS! GET OFFA MY LAWN!!

[TRACK]

apple tends to do that - they want you to "keep up" with technology. look at their laptop charger.. changes every year.... lol

ps. im still using galaxy s3, android still upgrades its firmware for this phone and i can still to sync to my pc :)

[thirdgenbird]

Well they are pushing me back to a 12 year old version of windows. Not so I can avoid their product, so I can use their product...

[mccx]

+1 to all of this.

I've been an Mac user "since Apple was doomed" and earlier, but the constant OSX, iOS, & hardware changes that offer little improvement but hasten obsolescence piss me off. Same with how it's now very difficult to upgrade drives or memory in Apple's laptops. I've considered the "never run updates" option but Apple (and Google and most others) make it hard to get off the treadmill.

To be on-topic tho - it's the same thing the bike industry does isn't it? Campagnolo moves to Powershift levers to increase product differentiation, Shimano makes it impossible to change Di2 firmware. Compatibility gets narrowed so you have to upgrade everything and spend more $$ to do it.

Unfortunately being a retro-grouch with computers is much more limiting than being one for bikes.

[93legendti]

I have no contribution to this thread other than their cables suck. Stop breaking. I don't even charge my phone in weird places or abuse the ends of the new tiny plug. And they're expensive to replace out of warranty.
+1

For my iPad mini and my wife and daughter's phone, I have had great luck with Radio Shack and Amazon's lightening cables.

[thirdgenbird]

To be on-topic tho - it's the same thing the bike industry does isn't it? Campagnolo moves to Powershift levers to increase product differentiation, Shimano makes it impossible to change Di2 firmware. Compatibility gets narrowed so you have to upgrade everything and spend more $$ to do

Its a little different.

It's not that their new stuff isn't compatible with their old stuff. It's that it isn't compatible with their old stuff but it is with their competitors older stuff.

Ok, I guess shimano sort of did that with their wheels. You can't upgrade their 3 year old wheels to 11spd, but you can upgrade a 15 year old Campagnolo wheel to shimano 11. The difference would be if shimano made the conversion freehub for the campy wheel but not the shimano wheel.

[GeorgeTSquirrel]

I've been primarily a mac user since OS 7 and a 233mhz beige G3... I was the stereotypical fan-boy for a long time. They lost me a few years ago after multiple failures. The one that really ticked me off was the expanding batteries in some of the last powerbooks (before they started calling them "macbooks"). When I called to complain, still under warranty for that matter, they told me that a battery expanding like a pregnant woman was "normal wear and tear" and wouldn't be covered. I'm still ticked about that.

The other BIG failure was the faulty capacitor problem that affected the last generation of power-PC imacs. It blew out my mother board once but was replaced under warranty. Then the power supply went a second time, replaced under warranty. Then it failed again... outside of warranty; replaced again. It failed a few months later. Now, I'm patient with the fact that sometimes you have lemons instead of apples. I understand that products will have issues creep up... but the jerk-offs could have at least provided a replacement power supply that didn't have the same faulty capacitors. I shouldn't have three failures of the same part... they kept the junk in the supply chain and never offered an actually fixed model. Booo. Still angry.

I also had a video card crap itself outside of warranty on one of the last pre-uni-body macbooks. Fortunately, they had a deal worked out with nvidia so the new motherboard was replaced at no charge to me.

So, that's two fried motherboards, three failed power-supplies (and a useless computer since I didn't bother with a fourth), and a batter the size of a baseball in width... don't get me started on how many of there dumb coaxial style power supplies I've replaced and/or repaired.

Their software is the least of my complaints, although apple mail became garbage with 10.8. I also can't stand the continued move towards making desktop OS more like the mobile version... bleh. *end rant*

[Md3000]

Yippee Apple talk group! :banana:
I'm one of those people that needs a computer to work, but doesn't want to be bothered by drivers, updates, viruses, clean up software and other nonsense, I just want the computer to do the work. Apple built their initial reputation being really great professional computers for the graphic and audio industry. However, because they force people to do what they want with their devices, even the higher models of iMacs are so poorly equipped you can't use them for anything remotely PRO. I bought a 3,5k iMac and it has 3 USB ports and a thunderbolt slot that makes my 10k audio interface (FireWire) completely useless. I keep have to change around USB cables cos hubs keep failing on me. Also a lot of the smaller software companies can't keep up with the updates making half the stuff I pay for unstable. But thanks for the new app that I can use to talk to grandpa, Apple!!

[saab2000]

FWIW, the software updates people here seem to be complaining about often include security updates. This alone is worth it.

As to the cable, I dunno. I travel a lot for my work and my Lightning cable is still in fine shape, as is my laptop charging cable.

Count me a satisfied Apple user. Or at least as satisfied as it's possible to be. I wouldn't say the iPhone is the greatest thing that ever happened but it sure has changed a lot of lives for the better.

[oldpotatoe]

FWIW, the software updates people here seem to be complaining about often include security updates. This alone is worth it.

As to the cable, I dunno. I travel a lot for my work and my Lightning cable is still in fine shape, as is my laptop charging cable.

Count me a satisfied Apple user. Or at least as satisfied as it's possible to be. I wouldn't say the iPhone is the greatest thing that ever happened but it sure has changed a lot of lives for the better.

Mee too..not computer savvy, don't know a driver from a port but 2 ipads, 2 iphones, mac-mini...kids-3 laptops, 3 iphones...they just work, charge, no cord issues...

W/o iphone/ipad/imac, doubt the others would have come up with this stuff on their own..great copiers, them..

Out..

[Mr. Pink]

The new Macpro rocks. Just got one at work. Wicked fast.

I have to use the stuff, because I work in the photography post production biz. Hardware works OK, I suppose, but to take this thread off track a bit, what disturbs me much more are the recent revelations about Steve Job's highly illegal manipulation of the labor market for engineers and coders in Silicon Valley. The man made cool gadgets, but he was truly evil.

Btw, windows sucks. No doubt about that.

[thirdgenbird]

I'm 100% happy with my iphone. It's great.

The problem is they don't make an updated version of iTunes for my OS. Windows may "suck" but it does what I need it to do right now. My 6 year newer Mac laptop is 100% useless to me. The only thing I need it for is getting music to my phone and it won't.

If you haven't had an issue with your laptop chargers, Count yourself as the lucky few. It's been garbage for years. Check out the reviews on apple's own website. It has a 1.5 star rating. 1570 people gave it a scathing 1 star review. My wife and I had one that was very well cared for that quit despite looking brand new. The other traveled more but failed internally. It melted and nearly started a fire. We see the same issue at work. We have hundereds of users on dells and something like 30 on apples but still replace apple chargers something like 10 to 1.

[saab2000]

I've had 3 MacBooks. Never an issue with the charger or power cord. And they get thrown into a suitcase 3 or 4 times a week and taken with me on airplanes.

As to the old OS, can't you update to a more up to date OS? Or is your computer too old for that? No judgement because I know it can happen, but as mentioned, the newer OS versions have important security updates. That's the reason I get them as soon as they're out.

[67-59]

FWIW, the software updates people here seem to be complaining about often include security updates. This alone is worth it.

As to the cable, I dunno. I travel a lot for my work and my Lightning cable is still in fine shape, as is my laptop charging cable.

Count me a satisfied Apple user. Or at least as satisfied as it's possible to be. I wouldn't say the iPhone is the greatest thing that ever happened but it sure has changed a lot of lives for the better.

Same here. I update when a new software update comes out, and it just works. And I've never had a problem with a cable or laptop charger.

[thirdgenbird]

I don't see why I should have to pay apple to upgrade my 6 year old OS so it can connect to their phone. Not when it connects to a 12 year old competing device for free. It's not like Microsoft bridged this gap either. iTunes is offered for one but not the other. I hear apple people brag about how apple computers work a lot longer than PCs but I'm not seeing it. Quite the contrary.

Virus protection isn't a concern. I just want my music copied from a portable hard drive to my phone.

Our latest chargers seem to be better. Just because some of you don't have issue doesn't mean they don't exist though.

Our apple store was so used to the issue and upset customers, they gave is two replacement chargers free of charge complexly out of warranty. The employee said it was a daily thing.

[avalonracing]

Whaaaaaaa...

If it wasn't for Apple you'd all be staring at flickering green DOS code on a big beige computer.

[thirdgenbird]

Whaaaaaaa...

If it wasn't for Apple you'd all be staring at flickering green DOS code on a big beige computer.

Xerox gave us the GUI

[oldpotatoe]

I don't see why I should have to pay apple to upgrade my 6 year old OS so it can connect to their phone. Not when it connects to a 12 year old competing device for free. It's not like Microsoft bridged this gap either. iTunes is offered for one but not the other.

Our latest chargers seem to be better. Just because some of you don't have issue doesn't mean they don't exist though.

Our apple store was so used to the issue and upset customers, they gave is two replacement chargers free of charge complexly out of warranty. The employee said it was a daily thing.

Yow, like assos and Rapha or shimano...what, gotta upgrade my rear wheel for shimano/scam 11s...why should I have to pay.....blah, blah

..just cuz you have problems doesn't mean these are problems for a lot of people either. There are simple, they work..in the shop I played music on my Ibook G4 all the time...

back to bikes...

BUT, bet people that use window-based junk also use sram based ____ also..and Campagnolo-Apple...just guessing tho...

[thirdgenbird]

I get that potato, it just seems silly. Apple support told me my options were to pay to upgrade or use the older windows machine I replaced with the Mac.

Do shimano reps tell you to dig out your record 9spd because they still support it? The best cycling analogy I can think of would be shimano discontinuing all 10spd chains and cassettes but releasing new Campagnolo 9spd compatible ones.

[Rada]

Whaaaaaaa...

If it wasn't for Apple you'd all be staring at flickering green DOS code on a big beige computer.

Typical Apple fanboy ignorance.

[holliscx]

Typical Apple fanboy ignorance.

Says the dude using Internet Explorer

[Johnny Alien]

Work in web and software development and you will absolutely see why forcing software upgrades is a necessity. It is impossible to get a have a well running bug free system when you have to deal with people running OS's, browsers, software that are 8 years old. Apple is now offering all of their OS upgrades for free. Why? Because it is better for them to have everyone on an up to date system than it is to make a few bucks and prohibit people from doing so. Microsoft take a completely different approach but even they will no longer support your machine running XP. Building software and trying to make it less bug prone even for people running ancient software is just not cheap and really prohibits what new features you can add.

[Rada]

Says the dude using Internet Explorer

No thanks. How's Safari working for you?

[Johnny Alien]

No thanks. How's Safari working for you?

Not as an apple fanboy but as someone working in web development, Safari is vastly superior to the newest IE's in almost every way possible. I prefer Chrome to all other browsers though. It pretty much goes like this Chrome > Safari > Firefox > Opera > Anything IE.

Chrome is way ahead of anyone else. I run it on my Apple products as well as my PC's.

[saab2000]

No thanks. How's Safari working for you?

Safari works great for me.

I'm not very tech savvy at all, which is why I like Apple. One thing I wish ALL computers had was a manual telling all the cool stuff it can do.

I know my MacBook Air will do a ton of stuff that I don't know about.

Not an Apple fanboy. I see my Apple more like a Honda automobile or Shimano bike components. Most owners are satisfied most of the time and come back for more when the time comes because they mostly just work as advertised.

[Rada]

Not as an apple fanboy but as someone working in web development, Safari is vastly superior to the newest IE's in almost every way possible. I prefer Chrome to all other browsers though. It pretty much goes like this Chrome > Safari > Firefox > Opera > Anything IE.

Chrome is way ahead of anyone else. I run it on my Apple products as well as my PC's.

I agree IE is the worst. I have not used Safari for a while, but did not think it was a whole lot better. I do see that Safari keeps losing share of users. BTW personally think Apple and MS OS can suck it.

[holliscx]

No thanks. How's Safari working for you?

Heard any good Windows Vista jokes lately?

[Rada]

Heard any good Windows Vista jokes lately?

Guess you missed my reply above.

[thirdgenbird]

Work in web and software development and you will absolutely see why forcing software upgrades is a necessity. It is impossible to get a have a well running bug free system when you have to deal with people running OS's, browsers, software that are 8 years old. Apple is now offering all of their OS upgrades for free. Why? Because it is better for them to have everyone on an up to date system than it is to make a few bucks and prohibit people from doing so. Microsoft take a completely different approach but even they will no longer support your machine running XP. Building software and trying to make it less bug prone even for people running ancient software is just not cheap and really prohibits what new features you can add.

Apple is forcing me to pay for an upgraded OS.

[bluesea]

The latest OS' have been free, even a couple that originally had a pricetag.

[Rada]

XP is 13 years old. How long does Apple support? MS is providing free updates from 8 to 8.1.

[dgauthier]

The problem is they don't make an updated version of iTunes for my OS. Windows may "suck" but it does what I need it to do right now. My 6 year newer Mac laptop is 100% useless to me. The only thing I need it for is getting music to my phone and it won't.


With all due respect, thirdgenbird, these are what we call "first world problems" . . .

A couple of days ago I watched a man on the news dig the body of his three year old daughter out of the rubble of his house. You get to decide whether to use your old computer, or upgrade your new computer, so you can listen to music the way you prefer.

May you and your family, and all of us, continue to be so blessed.

[thirdgenbird]

The latest OS' have been free, even a couple that originally had a pricetag.

But not the one I need. I have to pay

With all due respect, thirdgenbird, these are what we call "first world problems" . . .

Absolutely

Did I ever say it was an affliction or major life issue? I'm not comparing this complaint to anyone's struggles. You are.

[pbarry]

Yeah, they have always been the weak link at least since the G3 ibooks. The bricks have never failed, but the wires do. I've repaired several for friends at the short(s) in the wiring with solder and shrink wrap tubing.

[PQJ]

Apple doesn't care about you. Apple cares about Apple.

[saab2000]

Apple doesn't care about you. Apple cares about Apple.

Like every single for-profit company I've ever seen.

All that advertising about how companies care? Ha..... Your relationship to a company or someone to whom you pay money or even your employer is nothing more than that - a business relationship.

If they don't do what you want, don't give them your money anymore. There are tons of choices.

[thirdgenbird]

Yeah, they have always been the weak link at least since the G3 ibooks. The bricks have never failed, but the wires do. I've repaired several for friends at the short(s) in the wiring with solder and shrink wrap tubing.

I've repaired shorted wires in others. Ours both failed at the brick.

Apple doesn't care about you. Apple cares about Apple.

A senior advisor talked to me about the call I made yesterday. They are mailing me a disc. She was very friendly and agreed with how silly situation was.

If they don't do what you want, don't give them your money anymore. There are tons of choices.

That's why I refused to pay to upgrade.

[Len J]

Two different business models. Both have pluses and minuses.

Windows maintains backwards comparability for devices and programs for a very long time. OTOH, that makes them much more flexible and cheaper to customize for more uses. OTOH, it makes it much more complex to upgrade the operating system, and creates more bugs over time that need to be patched. No free lunch.

Apple is very narrow in what/how they support devices and programs. Their hardware is closed and trade off premium entry prices for state if the art for hopefully longevity. OTOH, if you don't like their hardware choices, too bad. They also have a narrower/shorter backward comparability.

Two different models.

IMO.

Len

Ps. It's not religion, they are just tools.

[oldpotatoe]

Apple doesn't care about you. Apple cares about Apple.

Put name of every for profit company in existence here, start with insurance companies.

[Mr. Pink]

Whaaaaaaa...

If it wasn't for Apple you'd all be staring at flickering green DOS code on a big beige computer.


That really isn't as far off base as it sounds. Pretty spot on.

[93legendti]

Put name of every for profit company in existence here, start with insurance companies.

Vecchio's?

Careful with the wild generalizations.

I could cite 10 stories of idiot Performance Bike customers who were taken care of BECAUSE Performace cares about its customers.

And Apple replaced my just out of warranty iPad mini because of so many problems.

[pbarry]

I've repaired shorted wires in others. Ours both failed at the brick.



A senior advisor talked to me about the call I made yesterday. They are mailing me a disc. She was very friendly and agreed with how silly situation was.



That's why I refused to pay to upgrade.

I should have said "the ones I've seen", have never failed at the brick.

As far as getting the upgrade for free, where's the happy dance? :banana:

[thirdgenbird]

:banana:

[Johnny Alien]

Apple is forcing me to pay for an upgraded OS.

Because all future free upgrades are done through the Apple app store you DO need to pay to get to the first version that has the app store in it. That part does suck but it's $24 and keeps you upgraded for free from that point on. MS charges around $70-90 for an OS upgrade with no free updates. 8 to 8.1 was a bug fix not an OS upgrade. That is why so many people are still using old versions of MS because it's cost prohibitive to upgrade. Because Apple replies on it's products (iphones, ipads, etc) and software (itunes) to make the bulk of their money it is in their best interest to keep you as up to date as possible so that they can really progress with the software. The integration between ios and os x in the next release is huge and those that don't upgrade will miss a ton of new features.

It does suck that there is some financial investments for this stuff but it is absolutely necessary in order to create a smooth bug free environment. It is just way too hard to try to make sure that new stuff works flawlessly with software from 5 years back. Especially since statistically you are probably in a very small percentile of people (probably less than 3%) running that old of an OS. Apple users are much quicker and more likely to upgrade especially since the price is low (and now free) so old system users are actually pretty rare. No company would invest the amount of money needed and hinder the features on new stuff all to please that small of a percentage.

Sometimes it sucks for the user but overall it's not Apple's fault.

[saab2000]

Vecchio's?

Careful with the wild generalizations.

I could cite 10 stories of idiot Performance Bike customers who were taken care of BECAUSE Performace cares about its customers.

And Apple replaced my just out of warranty iPad mini because of so many problems.

But taking care of customers is good business. We all have companies we like and often it's because they treat us well as customers.

But it's important to remember that somewhere someone has figured out the threshold at which taking care of customers is good business and where that stops being the case.

Different industries do this differently and different companies within the same industry often differ. But they're all in it to make money.

[thirdgenbird]

Because all future free upgrades are done through the Apple app store you DO need to pay to get to the first version that has the app store in it.

Yeah because I'm sure it's impossible to distribute software electronically without the App Store. Give me a break... I don't need the App Store for iTunes. I don't need an App Store to download office from Microsoft. There are plenty of ways for apple to make software available without an App Store that customers need to pay for.

[Joachim]

A couple of days ago I watched a man on the news dig the body of his three year old daughter out of the rubble of his house. You get to decide whether to use your old computer, or upgrade your new computer, so you can listen to music the way you prefer.

May you and your family, and all of us, continue to be so blessed.

If we would focus on only "real" problems on this forum, there will be no more bike-related threads. Now where is that Campy vs Shimano thread?

[Johnny Alien]

Yeah because I'm sure it's impossible to distribute software electronically without the App Store. Give me a break... I don't need the App Store for iTunes. I don't need an App Store to download office from Microsoft. There are plenty of ways for apple to make software available without an App Store that customers need to pay for.

Yes, if they want to push upgrades to your system the easiest way is through their ecosystem. They could supply a link to a page on their site and ask people to do it but a large percentage might not take that initiative themselves. Forced updates are the easiest and most effective and for that the app store is the easiest way. It sounds to me like you don't like the Apple OS system and that's fine but there is nothing deceptive or wrong about trying to have a system of users on a common software base that is easier to code and evolve around.

[oldpotatoe]

Vecchio's?

Careful with the wild generalizations.

I could cite 10 stories of idiot Performance Bike customers who were taken care of BECAUSE Performace cares about its customers.

And Apple replaced my just out of warranty iPad mini because of so many problems.

Called customer service and in the long run, it's what's best for the company.

Wishing your company to have a long and successful life us not a bad thing.

[HenryA]

It's the "company store" model, and it is very effective. But at the same time, a bit chafing to those who prefer to have more than a little say in how/what/when their computing goes.

If you let it, it makes everything real simple. So long as you like it their way.

[thirdgenbird]

Yes, if they want to push upgrades to your system the easiest way is through their ecosystem. They could supply a link to a page on their site and ask people to do it but a large percentage might not take that initiative themselves. Forced updates are the easiest and most effective and for that the app store is the easiest way. It sounds to me like you don't like the Apple OS system and that's fine but there is nothing deceptive or wrong about trying to have a system of users on a common software base that is easier to code and evolve around.

You are not proving anything.

Apple could provide updates pre App Store. In addition, going to their website, ordering an OS for $20, and installing it when the disc arives takes way more initiative than downloading it right away. Once this is done, I could have an App Store and live in their ideal eco system.

The App Store is the easiest long term solution, but they made it a pain for any ios user who doesn't have an App Store. They are making it more difficult to do exactly what you are promoting.

The key issue here is that if I wouldn't save bought an apple computer, I wouldn't have any issue with iTunes and my iphone. Instead, I replaced my out of date at the time PC with an apple and now that apple is the computer that can't connect to my apple phone using apple iTunes. That 12 year old windows license is the only way I can connect two apple products until my disc arrives. This was the official recommendation from their support team. Tell me that is easier than a snow leopard or App Store download link.

The exact words from their tech advisor were "fortunately you can install your version of XP on your MacBook..." And yes, I do know how to set up bootcamp and a shared fat32 partition. One of our MacBooks is already bootcamped and the other is already set up as a print server and shared network storage with one fat32 drive.

[Johnny Alien]

You are not proving anything.

Apple could provide updates pre App Store. In addition, going to their website, ordering an OS for $20, and installing it when the disc arives takes way more initiative than downloading it right away. Once this is done, I could have an App Store and live in their ideal eco system.

The App Store is the easiest long term solution, but they made it a pain for any ios user who doesn't have an App Store. They are making it more difficult to do exactly what you are promoting.

The key issue here is that if I wouldn't save bought an apple computer, I wouldn't have any issue with iTunes and my iphone. Instead, I replaced my out of date at the time PC with an apple and now that apple is the computer that can't connect to my apple phone using apple iTunes. That 12 year old windows license is the only way I can connect two apple products until my disc arrives. This was the official recommendation from their support team. Tell me that is easier than a snow leopard or App Store download link.

The exact words from their tech advisor were "fortunately you can install your version of XP on your MacBook..." And yes, I do know how to set up bootcamp and a shared fat32 partition. One of our MacBooks is already bootcamped and the other is already set up as a print server and shared network storage with one fat32 drive.

Yeah, I see the pain of having to have a disc sent to you but 5 years ago that was the way things were done. With Windows it's still largely done that way. I am a bit surprised that they don't have a download section for Snow Leopard now but maybe it's not worth supporting since most of their user base is no longer on it? To assume that there are no issues with a PC is not really true either. I am not really trying to lessen your frustration either. I totally understand being upset I was just trying to explain a real legitimate reason that Apple has for wanting to keep people updated to the latest stuff. I hope it all gets sorted out for you soon and you can go back to more easily enjoying your iphone!

[thirdgenbird]

I completely get common code. I've spent time in business information in systems and helped move an old school company into the world of SAS. The problem is that apple put a roadblock in my way of getting to a common code.

I not saying there are not issues with windows, but today, this weekend, and for the next 10 days, that is my only option. I'm just waiting because it isn't that important, I just found the whole event surprising. I'm really not worked up about it, I just find it odd that apple would tell me to use a 12 year old version of windows because they no longer support a 6 year old apple OS. If apple didn't provide a free disc, I would have just used windows. I just want a free a way to get music from a hard drive to my phone. I don't need an internet connection so virus protection isn't an issue.

As an FYI, when I bought Microsoft office 4 or more years ago, Microsoft provided it as a download. I believe they have been offering OS updates the same way for at least 4-5 years.

[wallymann]

...and helped move an old school company into the world of SAS...

was that SAS or SaaS?

[thirdgenbird]

was that SAS or SaaS?

SaaS. Poor mobile device typing and/or autocorrect. My posts are filled with them.

It's common for me to hit the shift instead of the "a" on my ipad. Likely the failure here. That would easily account for A vs aa.

[GeorgeTSquirrel]

Yippee Apple talk group! :banana:
I'm one of those people that needs a computer to work, but doesn't want to be bothered by drivers, updates, viruses, clean up software and other nonsense, I just want the computer to do the work. Apple built their initial reputation being really great professional computers for the graphic and audio industry. However, because they force people to do what they want with their devices, even the higher models of iMacs are so poorly equipped you can't use them for anything remotely PRO. I bought a 3,5k iMac and it has 3 USB ports and a thunderbolt slot that makes my 10k audio interface (FireWire) completely useless. I keep have to change around USB cables cos hubs keep failing on me. Also a lot of the smaller software companies can't keep up with the updates making half the stuff I pay for unstable. But thanks for the new app that I can use to talk to grandpa, Apple!!

Not just small companies, when Adobe moved Photoshop to 64bit, Windows got the new version a generation before Apple due to some last minute changes (http://betanews.com/2008/04/03/adobe-cs4-will-be-64-bit-but-only-on-windows/) on Apple's end.

FWIW, I still run Reason 2.5 on my 2000 400mhz Pismo... the funny thing is, a virtual music synth is less demanding on that computer than modern browsers are. In light of this, it's easy to understand Apple's take on Java for their mobile platform.

[GeorgeTSquirrel]

I've had 3 MacBooks. Never an issue with the charger or power cord. And they get thrown into a suitcase 3 or 4 times a week and taken with me on airplanes.

You've been incredibly lucky. With power cords, I've personally repaired one for personal use, replaced on with the overpriced $100 replacement (because they force you to buy their transformer and wire together) and had one replaced under extended warranty. I've also repaired two for friends.

With iphone cables, every iphone/ipod I've owned has at some point needed repaired. Only my current Iphone 5c has been spared so far and to say that I've been extra careful doesn't even begin to cover it. I've lost count of how many I've repaired for friends, at least twenty now, and I'm not exaggerating... the coaxial braided outer cables get worn down from bending and break due to fatigue. I've had a lot of luck just shaving off the rubber coating, reenforcing the braided outer wire with solder, and taping the end until it looks like a mummy but is essentially unbendable for the last 3-4 inches up to the jack. It needs to be reenforced, it's been a known issue for over a decade now.

Yeah, they have always been the weak link at least since the G3 ibooks. The bricks have never failed, but the wires do. I've repaired several for friends at the short(s) in the wiring with solder and shrink wrap tubing.

Fortunately, I usually catch them before the wire is completely shot so I don't get a chance to use the shrink-tubing. I'm guessing you just push back and bunch up the braided wire and then just slide it back up after you make the cut and reattach the wire core? Reattaching the outer wire is a royal p.i.t.a. I had to do that once to replace a power supply... I ended up breaking the transformer open and resoldering there. The shrink wrap would definitely look cleaner than my repairs but I didn't want to cut the inner wire just to slide the tubing over the cable.

[BSBD]

To the OP, did you look for an alternative to iTunes? There are plenty out there for media syncing.

As for Apple discontinuing support: it's called dependencies and regression testing. You can only do so much.

[Rada]

As for Apple discontinuing support: it's called dependencies and regression testing. You can only do so much.

That's one way to put it. Another would be planned obsolescence.

[Germany_chris]

I don't see why I should have to pay apple to upgrade my 6 year old OS so it can connect to their phone. Not when it connects to a 12 year old competing device for free. It's not like Microsoft bridged this gap either. iTunes is offered for one but not the other. I hear apple people brag about how apple computers work a lot longer than PCs but I'm not seeing it. Quite the contrary.

Virus protection isn't a concern. I just want my music copied from a portable hard drive to my phone.

Our latest chargers seem to be better. Just because some of you don't have issue doesn't mean they don't exist though.

Our apple store was so used to the issue and upset customers, they gave is two replacement chargers free of charge complexly out of warranty. The employee said it was a daily thing.

You don't need to pay you have to get to 10.6.6 then you can upgrade all the way to 10.9 for free. You should do that anyway your OS hasn't been supported in years you likely running an out of date flash and Java you need to upgrade ASAP. You might also want to ponder using Windows XP as support was dropped for it in the spring.

Tech that is online is not set and forget.

[thirdgenbird]

You don't need to pay you have to get to 10.6.6 then you can upgrade all the way to 10.9 for free. You should do that anyway your OS hasn't been supported in years you likely running an out of date flash and Java you need to upgrade ASAP. You might also want to ponder using Windows XP as support was dropped for it in the spring.

Tech that is online is not set and forget.

You obviously haven't read anything I've typed.

The official stance from apple is that you have to pay for 10.6.6 and then upgrades are free. There is no snow leopard download. You buy a disc.

I don't need to upgrade ASAP. all I need to do is move music from a portable hard drive to my phone. This doesn't take flash, it doesn't take java, and security isn't an issue.

It doesn't manner that xp support has been dropped. Apple offers iTunes 11 for it but not their own newer OS. I left xp for apple six years ago and apple support told me to go back.

[Germany_chris]

You obviously haven't read anything I've typed.

The official stance from apple is that you have to pay for 10.6.6 and then upgrades are free. There is no snow leopard download. You buy a disc.

I don't need to upgrade ASAP. all I need to do is move music from a portable hard drive to my phone. This doesn't take flash, it doesn't take java, and security isn't an issue.

It doesn't manner that xp support has been dropped. Apple offers iTunes 11 for it but not their own newer OS. I left xp for apple six years ago and apple support told me to go back.

I'll burn you a copy and send it I keep an .iso saved in on my HD for this reason. I'll even drop it in surdoc and let you download it. Now if you wan't to talk upgrading how much was Vista, 7, and 8 Snow is 39.99 from the apple store.

Security is an issue with XP if you have hooked to the net because it's not receiving security updates let alone Flash and Java.

[PQJ]

Put name of every for profit company in existence here, start with insurance companies.

I think the big difference is that insurance companies don't pretend to be anything other than the (legal) extortionists that they are. Customer service? Not sure they can even spell it. Apple sings a different tune.

And don't get me wrong. I like Apple products. A lot. With the exception of a PC running XP which probably hasn't been turned in in 2 years, I live in an all Apple household. But I've long since come to terms with the fact that Apple really, really, really doesn't care about me, the consumer, much at all. Apple as consumer-oriented / consumer-friendly company is, IMO, a fiction (and I'm talking here about consumer - company interactions, not the products they produce).

[thirdgenbird]

I'll burn you a copy and send it I keep an .iso saved in on my HD for this reason. I'll even drop it in surdoc and let you download it. Now if you wan't to talk upgrading how much was Vista, 7, and 8 Snow is 39.99 from the apple store.

Security is an issue with XP if you have hooked to the net because it's not receiving security updates let alone Flash and Java.

I appreciate the offer, but I've got a disc coming in the mail. I can wait. It also doesn't manner to me how much windows is. I need an OS for one specific use and xp does it. My much newer apple os doesn't.

Security isn't an issue with xp. In this theoretical situation, it would be hooked to the net just long enough to download iTunes 11. I would take my chances. Even if I got a virus in 5min what would I have to loose? It's a clean install on a 15gb partition that's never been on the net or accessed email. Again, flash and java are irrelevant in this situation.

[Johnny Alien]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next itunes release (which is probably about a month away) no longer has XP support. Since MS has dropped support and most people are finally moving off of it there is little reason for Apple to code to it. They might but I would bet on it not happening. Of course for you right now that doesn't matter.

If all you care about is moving your music and that is pretty much all you use your computer for that you might benefit from getting iTunes match. It pushes all of your music to the cloud so that you have constant access to everything without ever having to hook up to a computer. Of course it cost $25 a year so that part ins't ideal.

[thirdgenbird]

I figure this is the last xp version but it theoretically would get my buy as it works with my current phone. As long as they don't drop support going that way, it should work.

All irrelevant because in two weeks I will be on the latest OSX release

[Ti Designs]

Well they are pushing me back to a 12 year old version of windows. Not so I can avoid their product, so I can use their product...

In the past 12 years it seems the concepts of durable products and long term use have gone out the window. One of my investing schemes is to predict future revenue based on current market share and the lifespan of a generation of their product. Other than major shifts in product focus or technology becoming obsolete, it's been pretty accurate. So, people are sheep - tell me something I didn't know.

It annoys me to no end that products can't last any more. The way I see it, the most expensive part is teaching the idiot user how it all works. For that reason, and my inability to learn, I stick to things I know how to use. All of my bikes are Dura-Ace 9-speed, my phone was built in the 50's. When my computer is too obsolete to check e-mail or browse the web, I'll have more time on my hands to ride my bike.

[Germany_chris]

I like things I know too that's why I use OSX and Linux I can use both keep them updated and keep the same paradigms.

[thirdgenbird]

I like things I know too that's why I use OSX and Linux I can use both keep them updated and keep the same paradigms.

Going back to Linux crossed my mind. Maybe a good winter project.

[Germany_chris]

Going back to Linux crossed my mind. Maybe a good winter project.

The reason I gave up my iPhone in favor of Android is because I couldn't charge it from my Linux box. I use an Arch powered Latitude as my "daily driver" and it's completely unacceptable that I cannot charge my phone from my Linux box.

[Johnny Alien]

I figure this is the last xp version but it theoretically would get my buy as it works with my current phone. As long as they don't drop support going that way, it should work.

All irrelevant because in two weeks I will be on the latest OSX release

Absolutely. As long as you don't update the ios on your phone. Updating that will often force an itunes upgrade when you connect again. But again...not really applicable since you will have the newest OSX at that time.

[Peter B]

Going back to Linux crossed my mind. Maybe a good winter project.

Might hope for a long winter if you want 12+ years of turnkey iTunes transfers on that box...

[Germany_chris]

the thing is if all the OP want's to do is transfer music there are ways on Linux to do that if you want the whole package then not so much

[thirdgenbird]

Might hope for a long winter if you want 12+ years of turnkey iTunes transfers on that box...

I never said I expected 12 years of support. Exactly why I was surprised I could use xp and not my much newer osx. XP was older than leopard is now when I quit using it for leopard.

I also don't expect any turnkey support for Linux. My apple computer can't use apple software to connect to an apple phone. That's a whole different ball game than adding a 3rd party. I'm more than capable of doing a workaround. I've had 3+ operating systems going at several times. I was only surprised apple dumped their leopard user base with no easy or free way of using an iphone 5 but still supported xp which is much older. The surprise is that xp is still supported, not that leopard is not.

[Germany_chris]

The install base of XP is greater than Leopard. Leopard EOL'd in 2009 XP EOL'd in 2014..

low end mac is only seeing about 6% of it's hits coming from Leopard and most of them are on PowerPC Leopard was never that popular on Intel Mac's we all jumped to Snow quick, fast, and in a hurry because it shed all the PowerPC code and was silly stable after .3. This doesn't even play into the fact that Apple has told folks for a couple years that lightning connector will not play with Leopard for a couple years.

[thirdgenbird]

I get the install base, but it's still an apple product vs a non apple product.

The install base of campy 9 (short lifespan like leopard) is much smaller than shimano 9 (which haven't hit EOL) but campy doesn't look to be discontinuing Campagnolo 9spd cassettes in favor of shiamno 9spd ones.

If apple no longer wants to support leopard, and they are giving mavericks away for free, I don't get why they don't have a snow leopard giveaway.

The point is, if I never would have bought an apple in 2008, if I would have stayed on my PC, this would have never happened. It's just an awkward situation that an apple purchase prevented me from using my apple phone.

[stien]

We are in the same boat, TGB can you tell me who you talked to about an upgrade disc?

[Germany_chris]

I get the install base, but it's still an apple product vs a non apple product.

The install base of campy 9 (short lifespan like leopard) is much smaller than shimano 9 (which haven't hit EOL) but campy doesn't look to be discontinuing Campagnolo 9spd cassettes in favor of shiamno 9spd ones.

If apple no longer wants to support leopard, and they are giving mavericks away for free, I don't get why they don't have a snow leopard giveaway.

The point is, if I never would have bought an apple in 2008, if I would have stayed on my PC, this would have never happened. It's just an awkward situation that an apple purchase prevented me from using my apple phone.

They gave away Snow for a couple years for free if you called them ..You'd probably gotten 10.9 for free if you'd gone to the Apple store. I do think however that this should probably be your last Mac.

[thirdgenbird]

We are in the same boat, TGB can you tell me who you talked to about an upgrade disc?

I chatted with tech online and they refered me to a senior advisor. If that doesn't work, PM me.

They gave away Snow for a couple years for free if you called them ..You'd probably gotten 10.9 for free if you'd gone to the Apple store. I do think however that this should probably be your last Mac.

I went to an apple store multiple times. One was to restore the computer because my disc is damaged. Even at this time they told me I would have to pay to upgrade. They installed leopard because at the time it did what I needed perfectly fine. I don't recall the timeframe other than leopard being several versions old. I think it was the mountain lion era. I recall them wanting $90 to upgrade. $30 for each step. Very glad I didn't do that now.

[mike p]

You guys all have petty little problems with apple products :-) Here's a real issue! Why can't I download my Garmin 500 to Strava through my iPad!!! Also can a person post pic's on the forum with their iPad? If yes does anyone have a link for a tutorial?

Thanks
Mike

[thirdgenbird]

You guys all have petty little problems with apple products :-) Here's a real issue! Why can't I download my Garmin 500 to Strava through my iPad!!! Also can a person post pic's on the forum with their iPad? If yes does anyone have a link for a tutorial?

Thanks
Mike
I post pictures from my ipad/phone all the time. I've actually never posted with a computer, ever. I host on photobucket and then paste the code.

Want to buy my xp license? :)

[93legendti]

You guys all have petty little problems with apple products :-) Here's a real issue! Why can't I download my Garmin 500 to Strava through my iPad!!! Also can a person post pic's on the forum with their iPad? If yes does anyone have a link for a tutorial?

Thanks
Mike

It's been a while, but I used photobucket to post pics here. Not sure if there's an easier way.

[Grant McLean]

Thanks for this thread, i now have Mavericks 10.9.4 installed
on my 4 year old Mac for free! i had no idea that Apple was
now giving away the OSX updates. No more Apple tax!

[thirdgenbird]

Thanks for this thread, i now have Mavericks 10.9.4 installed
on my 4 year old Mac for free! i had no idea that Apple was
now giving away the OSX updates. No more Apple tax!

Your welcome

[mike p]

Thanks guys!

Mike

[lookout2015]

The reason I gave up my iPhone in favor of Android is because I couldn't charge it from my Linux box. I use an Arch powered Latitude as my "daily driver" and it's completely unacceptable that I cannot charge my phone from my Linux box.

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/ipad-charge-git/

should take care of that problem for you

[Dustin]

A similar problem happened to me on an old Mac I use for streaming. I paid 20 bucks for the disk, then upgraded the rest of the way for free. Problem solved. Now I can continue streaming my favorite shows for the foreseeable future.

First world problems indeed.

[gavingould]

Kind of silly... the machine is not 100% useless - it won't do the particular task because you didn't keep it updated enough to do so. Sounds like they took care of you anyway, as they often do.

(I work in multiple-platform IT support and my wife works for a Cupertino-based computing concern)

[thirdgenbird]

Kind of silly... the machine is not 100% useless

For me? Yes, 100% useless. The only thing I have used that computer for in the the last 18 moths is to move music to my ipad and iphone. It may have uses for others, but it has no other use for me.

[oldpotatoe]

For me? Yes, 100% useless. The only thing I have used that computer for in the the last 18 moths is to move music to my ipad and iphone. It may have uses for others, but it has no other use for me.

Yowser, 92 posts... Yer more pissed than Charles is with Rapha. I'll bet there is a cheap machine of some type 'out there' that will let you put your music wherever ya want, just guessing tho.

[thirdgenbird]

Yowser, 92 posts... Yer more pissed than Charles is with Rapha. I'll bet there is a cheap machine of some type 'out there' that will let you put your music wherever ya want, just guessing tho.

What makes you think I'm pissed? I'm not mad at all.

[oldpotatoe]

What makes you think I'm pissed? I'm not mad at all.

Just the impression I got from your many posts...about apple

[thirdgenbird]

Just the impression I got from your many posts...about apple

I carried the conversation, but I'm not sure in what world this is the response of a "pissed" customer

My wife and I cannot sync music to our iPhones without doing multiple operating system upgrades to our apple computer running osx leapord. Somewhat surprisingly, I can sync my iphone using Windows XP, a six year older OS.

I was surprised, and find their handling of the situation silly, but I am in no way mad.

[oldpotatoe]

I carried the conversation, but I'm not sure in what world this is the response of a "pissed" customer



I was surprised, and find their handling of the situation silly, but I am in no way mad.

whatever..interweb impressions. I wouldn't call you 'happy' about Apple..but whatever....

[thirdgenbird]

whatever..interweb impressions. I wouldn't call you 'happy' about Apple..but whatever....

I wasn't happy when I plugged my phone into iTunes and it said it needed updating the iTunes "check updates" said it was up to date, and then when I tried to install the actual up to date iTunes it said no but that doesn't make me pissed.

In typical sram fashion, apple stepped up and took care of me. Just like when both our mackbook chargers quit and when my iphone speaker quit on day 2 of ownership.