Can 10 speed Di2 be reprogrammed for 11 speed?

[sworcester]

Has anyone tried this?

I read here recently that if you had all 10 speed Di2, and swapped out the rear derailleur (with an 11 speed compatible crank and chain) it works as 11 speed. At least I think I saw that, don't know if it has been proven though.

But has anyone tried to just flash new firmware to it and make it 11 speed?

[ColnagoFan]

Has anyone tried this?

I read here recently that if you had all 10 speed Di2, and swapped out the rear derailleur (with an 11 speed compatible crank and chain) it works as 11 speed. At least I think I saw that, don't know if it has been proven though.

But has anyone tried to just flash new firmware to it and make it 11 speed?

Yes, the 10spd Ultegra Di2 stuff can be made to go to 11 if you swap the RD and do a firmware upgrade.
Just like the 11spd Ultegra & Dura Ace can be made into a 10spd the same way.

[sworcester]

Yes, the 10spd Ultegra Di2 stuff can be made to go to 11 if you swap the RD and do a firmware upgrade.
Just like the 11spd Ultegra & Dura Ace can be made into a 10spd the same way.

But you can you flash (firmware upgrade) a 10 speed RD and make it 11?

[yoshirider]

When it comes to the actual drivetrain, the limiting factor for the 6770 generation Ultegra Di2 system working with 11 speed is the rear derailleur. The Ultegra 6770 Di2 rear derailleur will not recognize 11 speed shift commands. However, all you need is a new Ultegra 6870 (or Dura Ace 9070) rear derailleur, a new 11 speed cassette, and a new chain and the rest of your existing shifters, cabling, junction boxes, front derailleur and brake calipers will work just fine.

http://fitwerx.com/converting-shimano-ultegra-6770-di2-to-11-speed

[thirdgenbird]

But you can you flash (firmware upgrade) a 10 speed RD and make it 11?

No.

Electronic shifting is not a silver bullet. New hub, new cassette, new chain, new RD. Not far off many mechanical upgrades.

[Mark McM]

No.

Electronic shifting is not a silver bullet. New hub, new cassette, new chain, new RD. Not far off many mechanical upgrades.

Well, the same as mechanical except for the cost; an electronic derailleur costs way more than a mechanical derailleur.

[RacerJRP]

THIS WILL NOT WORK! Do not try to do this mixing 10 and 11spd derailleurs or your bike will not operate anymore once you connect it to PCE1. The latest firmware upgrade does not allow these two setups to talk.

You can run whatever shifter set you want 10 or 11, because it is a switch and can be programmed. As far as the derailleurs go, you need to be all 11spd or all 10spd.

[sworcester]

http://fitwerx.com/converting-shimano-ultegra-6770-di2-to-11-speed

Note: As of 8/3/14 firmware updates from Shimano remove the functionality between 6770 and 6870/9070 electronic components being used together. Some previous firmware versions allowed the below conversion to function without replacing the front derailleur, but firmware being installed as of 8/3/14 will irreversibly render such a mixed system dysfunctional. As of 8/3/14, a 6870 front and rear derailleur are both required to allow 6770 shift levers to be work with 11 speed.

So now they will actually brick it and it is junk if you try it?
That's what I read fro this.

[palincss]

So, the short answer is, "No."

[Mark McM]

Note: As of 8/3/14 firmware updates from Shimano remove the functionality between 6770 and 6870/9070 electronic components being used together. Some previous firmware versions allowed the below conversion to function without replacing the front derailleur, but firmware being installed as of 8/3/14 will irreversibly render such a mixed system dysfunctional. As of 8/3/14, a 6870 front and rear derailleur are both required to allow 6770 shift levers to be work with 11 speed.

So now they will actually brick it and it is junk if you try it?
That's what I read fro this.

That's not quite how I read it. To me, it says support for mixed systems has been removed, so mixed systems will no longer work. But the equipment itself won't be damaged - it will still work if it is subsequently used in a matched system.

If the firmware update actually bricked the components, Shimano would probably be open to a lawsuit (Apple computer lost that one).

[Look585]

Note: As of 8/3/14 firmware updates from Shimano remove the functionality between 6770 and 6870/9070 electronic components being used together.


Was this in an announcement from Shimano posted somewhere?

Mental Note: Never attempt to futz with firmware on a functioning system. :rolleyes:

[sworcester]

Was this in an announcement from Shimano posted somewhere?

Mental Note: Never attempt to futz with firmware on a functioning system. :rolleyes:

It was a link that Mr Rider posted

http://fitwerx.com/converting-shiman...i2-to-11-speed

[oldpotatoe]

Has anyone tried this?

I read here recently that if you had all 10 speed Di2, and swapped out the rear derailleur (with an 11 speed compatible crank and chain) it works as 11 speed. At least I think I saw that, don't know if it has been proven though.

But has anyone tried to just flash new firmware to it and make it 11 speed?

6770 only, not first gen 7970. Rear der, cogset, chain, chainrings. Hook up to laptop, tell it it's 11s

BUT I see 2 days ago you can't?? I guess I don't know then.

[oldpotatoe]

But you can you flash (firmware upgrade) a 10 speed RD and make it 11?

No afaik

[RacerJRP]

That's not quite how I read it. To me, it says support for mixed systems has been removed, so mixed systems will no longer work. But the equipment itself won't be damaged - it will still work if it is subsequently used in a matched system.

If the firmware update actually bricked the components, Shimano would probably be open to a lawsuit (Apple computer lost that one).

This is correct.

[Germany_chris]

Firmware flashing the drivetrain of our bikes :butt:

[LJohnny]

I have an older version of the etube software. Can it still be used without having to update to the 8/3 version? I have done the 10/11 mixing and it works just fine. Only needed to change RD, cassette and chain. What is shamano worried about other than wanting to sell more stuff.

.....

[sworcester]

I have an older version of the etube software. Can it still be used without having to update to the 8/3 version? I have done the 10/11 mixing and it works just fine. Only needed to change RD, cassette and chain. What is shamano worried about other than wanting to sell more stuff.

.....

Supposedly it had to do with "performance". Whether that means they were afraid of 10 speed upgrades taking away from 11 speed installs, I don't know.

[thirdgenbird]

I recall people justifying their 7970 purchases by saying e-shifting could be upgraded for new cassettes. Could doesn't mean will...

[oldpotatoe]

I have an older version of the etube software. Can it still be used without having to update to the 8/3 version? I have done the 10/11 mixing and it works just fine. Only needed to change RD, cassette and chain. What is shimano worried about other than wanting to sell more stuff.

.....

Yup..want ya to buy 6870 levers, I guess. So ya spend a ton of $ on 6770..like it but want 11s...not including the wheel...levers, ders, cogset, chain....not cheap..$

[RacerJRP]

Yup..want ya to buy 6870 levers, I guess. So ya spend a ton of $ on 6770..like it but want 11s...not including the wheel...levers, ders, cogset, chain....not cheap..$

The levers are indifferent. You can run any lever the uses E-tube as those can be programmed to go to 10 or 11. It is just the der. that have to be the same so you must be all-in 10spd or all-in 11spd. No different than any of the new mechanical stuff.


I believe Shimano always stated that it was not recommended but people did it anyway. Now it just makes their non-recommendation the law.

Personally, I still have cables and housing on all my bikes :)

[JAGI410]

Ahh the joys of friction shifting and the days of simplicity...

[oldpotatoe]

The levers are indifferent. You can run any lever the uses E-tube as those can be programmed to go to 10 or 11. It is just the der. that have to be the same so you must be all-in 10spd or all-in 11spd. No different than any of the new mechanical stuff.


I believe Shimano always stated that it was not recommended but people did it anyway. Now it just makes their non-recommendation the law.

Personally, I still have cables and housing on all my bikes :)

All true until August 3rd tho...cannot replace ders with 6870, reprogram 6770 to 11s....is the way I read it but doesn't matter, I have EPS....

[LJohnny]

Bummer. I have another bike that i wanted to do the swap but I've been held up waiting for a 11sp Easton R4 hub. So i guess i am going to try to do it without updating etube first.

.....

[LJohnny]

An update FYI:

Came back from a trip and decided to take a look at this. Borrowed a 11S wheel set from friend since I am still missing the Easton 11S R4.

I decided to just disconnect the 10S Di2 RD, and connecting the 11S RD as a floater on the side, before going forward with disassembling the RD/Chain, and do a diagnostics test with the SM-PCE1. Ran the E-tube and chucks, indeed it proceeds with prompts for updates. There is basically no way to run the software without first running updates. After doing the updates, it detected the 11S RD. It prompted with an error message stating that this combination 10/11 does not work. BUT that was the extend of the warning. It did not disabled any functionality and I was able to change settings for the 11S RD, i.e. multi-shift, shifting speed...no problem.
At this point I decided to go ahead with the swap of 11S RD on the bike and install the cassette, chain. It works! So maybe Shimano re-assessed their resolution of disabling the 11S/10S combination? I don't know. All I can say is that it worked for me. I did this yesterday, including the software update.

[oldpotatoe]

An update FYI:

Came back from a trip and decided to take a look at this. Borrowed a 11S wheel set from friend since I am still missing the Easton 11S R4.

I decided to just disconnect the 10S Di2 RD, and connecting the 11S RD as a floater on the side, before going forward with disassembling the RD/Chain, and do a diagnostics test with the SM-PCE1. Ran the E-tube and chucks, indeed it proceeds with prompts for updates. There is basically no way to run the software without first running updates. After doing the updates, it detected the 11S RD. It prompted with an error message stating that this combination 10/11 does not work. BUT that was the extend of the warning. It did not disabled any functionality and I was able to change settings for the 11S RD, i.e. multi-shift, shifting speed...no problem.
At this point I decided to go ahead with the swap of 11S RD on the bike and install the cassette, chain. It works! So maybe Shimano re-assessed their resolution of disabling the 11S/10S combination? I don't know. All I can say is that it worked for me. I did this yesterday, including the software update.

There ya go, actual experience in the wild..not surprised about message. I would have been surprised if shimano punished you for trying by locking something or other. Surprising to me that they made 6770(10s) in the first place. I'm pretty sure they knew they were gonna go to 11s on 9000 when 6770 came out...along with e wire compatibility with 9070 and all..

But, shimano, they do it their way.

[fatallightning]

yep, they dialed out that functionality. it used to be just the rd, now you need rd and fd. it just won't shift the rear until you put the 11s fd on. FWIW, we had put an older 10s FD on an otherwise all 11s ui2 bike and it worked.