How much does 2mm really matter - tubular tires

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I'm looking at a couple different deep carbon tubular wheelsets, going wide this time (23+ rims). I ride 25mm Veloflex Corsas on my clinchers (Pacenti SL23) and historically have run 23mm Veloflex Carbons on my tubulars (Reynolds 32s, 21mm brake track).

I can feel the difference going from 23mm clinchers on narrow Mavic rims to 25mm clinches on wide rims, but I'd guess a big piece of that is the rims not the tires. But I'm just not sure moving up a tire size would matter all that much for tubulars. Assuming the tire is wide enough to protect the rim, the rim width and tire width on a tubular seem pretty independent of each other because a tubular's shape and width is-what-it-is.

Anyone think this matters all that much? For what it's worth, I use my tubulars for racing and daily riding (they're tools, not trophies). If I went from Veloflex Carbons to whatever their 25mm tubie is, I'm curious if I'd notice.

[lhuerta]

YES, you will feel the difference between 23 and 25 c tubulars assuming you are making an even comparison, keeping the rim width constant and the tire manufacturer and model constant. The 25c will give you more cush, have a rounder profile and increase cornering stability, and lastly more durability. Lou

[christian]

I run 23mm Vittoria Corsas on one bike and 25mm Vittoria Corsas on another. The wheelsets, respectively are Record to Reflex and Chorus to Velocity Escape (so pretty similar). This has given me an opportunity to swap wheels back and forth between the Hampsten and Colnago and compare. I would say there is a totally evident difference on both bikes, but that the effect is most noticeable on the Colnago.

[ultraman6970]

IME It depends a lot of the tubular. If you go to a softer tubular and wider you will notice big time for sure (tend to bounce more if you try to go 100 rpms for example). For example to me challenge 23s tubulars are too soft, I imagine the same model of challenge in 25 won't make too much of a difference.

If you go to the same brand and model but wider with same pressure probably you wont notice too much of a difference, specially if we are talking about tubulars that are hard, that do not deform too much.

From what I notice in clinchers is that if you go wider the clincher tends to get softer, that's why you mentioned that you can tell going to wider clincher tires.

As for the rims, well there are some rims that are softer than others.

Hope this helps.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I run 23mm Vittoria Corsas on one bike and 25mm Vittoria Corsas on another. The wheelsets, respectively are Record to Reflex and Chorus to Velocity Escape (so pretty similar). This has given me an opportunity to swap wheels back and forth between the Hampsten and Colnago and compare. I would say there is a totally evident difference on both bikes, but that the effect is most noticeable on the Colnago.

I'm curious why you notice it more on the Colnago. Does it generally transmit more from the road than the Hampsten?

[palincss]

I can feel the difference going from 23mm clinchers on narrow Mavic rims to 25mm clinches on wide rims, but I'd guess a big piece of that is the rims not the tires.


For the same 100 lb of wheel weight, to get an identical amount of tire drop you'd need to inflate to over 100 psi in the 23mm tire and to around 85 psi in the 25mm tire. I think you'd notice the effect of a >15 psi difference. And I'm confident that would be true for both tubulars and clinchers.

[happycampyer]

For years, Veloflex Carbons were my favorite tires, and that was when they were 22mm. I preferred them to 25mm Vittoria Corsas. Veloflex introduced the 25mm Arenbergs at about the same time that they increased the width of the Carbons to 23mm (and yes, they actually are 1mm wider, it wasn't just a change in marking). The Arenbergs are now my favorites—they roll as nicely as the Carbons, but have a bigger contact patch which feels more sure-footed. Supposedly, the 23mm tires are more aero, so if that's a consideration for you, then maybe stick with the 23mm Carbons. Otherwise, I think you'll like the Arenbergs.

[djg]

I dunno ... but, there's the nominal size of the tire (like, what they print on the side) and the actual size of the tire, which might be a function of the tire itself plus other things. Not all "23c" tires will measure the same, even at the same psi, and even on the same rim, etc.

But let's say it's 2mm. Not a big distance as a linear measure goes, but it could be a significant percentage difference (say, 22 vs 24), and that's before we consider that the difference in circumference (the contour, before we deform the tire) and in the tire's volume will be larger still.

And if you change the size of the tire, you might change the pressure (even if you are not worried about pinch flats, because it's a tubbie), etc. A vittoria corsa evo in a 25 is different from the same tire in a 23. Which one you prefer under which conditions is another question. But the big investment here is in the hoops. Get the wheels you want and you can figure out which tires you like best over time. First set? I'd say 23 for crits or circuit races on decent (not necessarily great) pavement, and for road races on decent roads, but for certain road races on rough roads or a mix of the good, the bad, and the ugly, I'd favor a 25. But YMMV.

[shovelhd]

Just what I am doing. My new wheels are 27mm and I will start out with 23mm Corsa CX. That is supposed to be the fastest combination. I will get a set of 25mm as well for comparison.

[Louis]

This may make me out to be a shallow poseur, only concerned about looks, but it's the truth, so here goes:

A while back I did a trial run, going from 23mm tires on 19mm rims to 25mm tires on 23 mm rims. I did notice a change in feel, but only a change - I can't tell you if one felt better or was faster or slower than the other.

However, I can tell you what I did notice - the now MASSIVE tires on the bike. OK, maybe they weren't that huge, but to me they were way, way bigger than what I thought a road bike on semi-decent roads should use. Maybe I've been riding 23c on 19mm rims for too long, but I could never get used to the aesthetics of the wider combo, so I waited until each tire wore out, and once threads started to show I switched back to the narrower sizes. I'm no faster than I was with the wider stuff, but at least I can console myself with the illusion that I am...

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Pulled the trigger. Going to put some fat tires (Veloflex Arenbergs) on my fat wheels (404s).

[oldpotatoe]

For years, Veloflex Carbons were my favorite tires, and that was when they were 22mm. I preferred them to 25mm Vittoria Corsas. Veloflex introduced the 25mm Arenbergs at about the same time that they increased the width of the Carbons to 23mm (and yes, they actually are 1mm wider, it wasn't just a change in marking). The Arenbergs are now my favorites—they roll as nicely as the Carbons, but have a bigger contact patch which feels more sure-footed. Supposedly, the 23mm tires are more aero, so if that's a consideration for you, then maybe stick with the 23mm Carbons. Otherwise, I think you'll like the Arenbergs.

Geezuz, they aren't cheap are they?? $101-$127??