Bad classified experiance

[ntb1001]

I just wanted a few opinions before I make a comment in the feedback section of the classifieds.

I recently purchased something...and when I received it, I noticed some damage that was not described.

I contacted the seller immediately and sent photos.

The seller seemed genuinely surprised and said that it must've happened in shipping.

I didn't agree as the seller packed the item extremely well and there was absolutely no damage to the box or packaging.

The way the item was damaged really makes no difference. ..and the seller never took out insurance so it doesn't matter anyway.

The seller wants me to make a claim with the post office if I'm not happy, but with no insurance. ..you cannot make a claim.

The item is fairly cheap. ..only $85.00.

I offered to absorb what return shipping would cost me....about $35.00, and split the difference...I just asked for a refund of $50.00.

Now, the seller seems to get very upset with this....he accused me of crashing and damaging the item??

I told him that I don't need $50.00 that bad and wouldn't go through all this for $50.00.

I thought I would offer a friendly settlement by only asking for $50.00, not $85.00....but I guess it was unsatisfactory?

Anybody care to give me an opinion. ..The money is really not the issue here...just the experiance.

[rugbysecondrow]

A) The seller should back the good, regardless.

B) even if no additional insurance is purchased, is there an automatic $100 applied to shipped items?

C) The seller should back the good, regardless.




I just wanted a few opinions before I make a comment in the feedback section of the classifieds.

I recently purchased something...and when I received it, I noticed some damage that was not described.

I contacted the seller immediately and sent photos.

The seller seemed genuinely surprised and said that it must've happened in shipping.

I didn't agree as the seller packed the item extremely well and there was absolutely no damage to the box or packaging.

The way the item was damaged really makes no difference. ..and the seller never took out insurance so it doesn't matter anyway.

The seller wants me to make a claim with the post office if I'm not happy, but with no insurance. ..you cannot make a claim.

The item is fairly cheap. ..only $85.00.

I offered to absorb what return shipping would cost me....about $35.00, and split the difference...I just asked for a refund of $50.00.

Now, the seller seems to get very upset with this....he accused me of crashing and damaging the item??

I told him that I don't need $50.00 that bad and wouldn't go through all this for $50.00.

I thought I would offer a friendly settlement by only asking for $50.00, not $85.00....but I guess it was unsatisfactory?

Anybody care to give me an opinion. ..The money is really not the issue here...just the experiance.

[thirdgenbird]

Without knowing more, your offer seems more than fair.

If insured...USPS insurance claims blow. If I sold something that got damaged in shipping, I would make the buyer happy and then suffer through the claim myself.

[ntb1001]

More than the money. ...I was more disappointed in the accusation that I damaged the item.
I understand things happen. ..or maybe he didn't know about the damage...but to say I did it??
I've bought quite a few items from this forum. ..and every single experiance has been great...even meet a few really nice people....it's too bad about this one.

[rockdude]

Insurance is the buyers responsibility. The buyer provides extra money to purchases it and makes any claims if needed. With that said, a good seller should help all they can.

[oldguy00]

I agree that the seller should refund it. If it were me, I would have offered you a full refund, especially for a small amount like that.
I hate to say it, but.....I've said it before and will say it again.......most of my bad experiences buying online have been on this, and one other forum. Even in some cases where I was buying from well respected forum members...
My experiences on ebay on the other hand have been stellar, maybe because people feel more accountable there, not sure...

[bluesea]

Insurance is the buyers responsibility. The buyer provides extra money to purchases it and makes any claims if needed. With that said, a good seller should help all they can.



Different opinion here. Insurance is the seller's responsibility, and the seller has the option to charge for that insurance. Its the seller who contracts and pays for shipping, not the buyer.

The buyer is in the position of sending money with nothing in hand until the item arrives. If an item is lost or damaged the buyer provides evidence as such, and the seller makes the claim. Any insurance settlement is sent to the seller.

[redir]

The way I look at things like this is to reverse rolls and do what I would do. IOW If I was the seller and my buyer contacted me and was not happy with the product then I would do everything I could do to remediate the problem which in this case is take it back no questions asked or perhaps negotiate a lower price. Mistakes happen but once the blaming starts then it can't mean anything other than trying to cover something up. I would also be concerned about my reputation as a seller on this forum.

Then again, and I mean no disrespect to you as the OP since I don't know you nor the situation, but some people are unbelievable anal about everything in life and can notice a scratch on something that most normal people would not even notice nor care about. So first make sure you are not that guy, then take action :D

[thirdgenbird]

Different opinion here. Insurance is the seller's responsibility, and the seller has the option to charge for that insurance. Its the seller who contracts and pays for shipping, not the buyer. The buyer sends money with nothing in hand, until the item arrives.

Agreed. If this wasn't the case, a seller could force a buyer into a fraudulent claim.

If I ship a cheaper part ($85 would fall in that category) I will usually self insure and just eat the cost. Regardless, the seller should take care of this for the buyer. Who pays for insurance is part of the selling process, just like shipping costs.

[weisan]

I like what redir-pal said.

Hope both parties can resolve this eventually.

[bluesea]

Agreed. If this wasn't the case, a seller could force a buyer into a fraudulent claim.

If I ship a cheaper part ($85 would fall in that category) I will usually self insure and just eat the cost. Regardless, the seller should take care of this for the buyer. Who pays for insurance is part of the selling process, just like shipping costs.


Sorry, I did some editing above.

[ntb1001]

The way I look at things like this is to reverse rolls and do what I would do. IOW If I was the seller and my buyer contacted me and was not happy with the product then I would do everything I could do to remediate the problem which in this case is take it back no questions asked or perhaps negotiate a lower price. Mistakes happen but once the blaming starts then it can't mean anything other than trying to cover something up. I would also be concerned about my reputation as a seller on this forum.

Then again, and I mean no disrespect to you as the OP since I don't know you nor the situation, but some people are unbelievable anal about everything in life and can notice a scratch on something that most normal people would not even notice nor care about. So first make sure you are not that guy, then take action :D

Good points. And I really try to be reasonable. In fact I wasn't complaining about a scratch...it was a dent from impact. ...Being a helmet...that means it's garbage.

[christian]

Sorry, that's nonsense. If the scenario is as you describe, the seller should take it back no questions asked. A helmet with an undisclosed dent is clearly materially misrepresented.

[Saint Vitus]

Anybody care to give me an opinion. ..The money is really not the issue here...just the experiance.

Which is why the seller should be willing to accept compromise. Your offer is generous, the seller is being unreasonable. But not everyone in this world is a reasonable person or understands the art of compromise and the need to keep the customer satisfied (great Simon & Garfunkel song btw).

[christian]

FWIW, for items I sell under $300 or so, I don't buy insurance usually. I'll eat the cost if something happens. For items above that, I buy insurance and bake it into the selling price.

If you have insurance, the seller has to do the work on the claim. They're the one who has a contract with USPS. Not the buyer.

[oldpotatoe]

Which is why the seller should be willing to accept compromise. Your offer is generous, the seller is being unreasonable. But not everyone in this world is a reasonable person or understands the art of compromise and the need to keep the customer satisfied (great Simon & Garfunkel song btw).

Seems like he said-he said, your word against his, type gig. Maybe you could identify him here, let him rebutt and let the buyers/sellers here decide if they want to do biz with you or him. Just my opinion, or keep it private, eat the item, don't do biz with him, press on. Of course others 'may' get burned but...

[fuzzalow]

The seller should back the good.

In fairness to the seller, the damage perceived by the buyer needs to be elaborated on also because anything purchased as other than NOS/NIB will have potential cosmetic flaws from prior use. And the judgement is specific to the part or good: a scuff to the anodizing in a crank arm is not usually an issue but a dent to a helmet may well be. In this case, the best way was to photograph the dent to allow the buyer to decide. If it was hidden or unstated, well then playing fast & loose to me is the same thing as trying to rip me off.

The seller has the greater responsibility to describe the goods condition because he has the item in hand and can photograph its condition. Or not. I take a very dim view of sellers that are not completely transparent about the quality and condition of the goods they sell here in the Paceline classifieds.

And therein lies the difference. Many new members are attracted by the quality of the classifieds and wish for it to be a better resource to buy & sell. They seem to be motivated in being here to tap into a pool of buyers. And that brings with it its own unique problems.

It all comes down to knowing who you are dealing with, which admittedly is easier said than done. But I'd suggest the quality of the classified posting has something to say about who you might be dealing with. I will always look for, and offer better deals, to those that have both an older join date on this forum and posting history so I can try to know who you are.

[malcolm]

I don't buy or sell on here near as much as I once did. I always tried to sell here first at what I thought was a good price and I would protect my reputation at all costs. As an example I sold a NOS crank that the guy that bought it wound up using another crank and wanted to know if I wanted it back. I said I had no use for it but would happily refund his money if he sent it back. He just elected to sell it himself. The forum has changed a bit since then and these days I would still do the same I would just be a little hesitant to do business with folks that hadn't been here a while.

I would expect and give a full refund if the buyer wasn't happy and maybe work out something for postage. I also wouldn't spend much time worrying over $50, just file away the interaction and not do business with this person again.

[campy man]

+1 seller owns item until delivered in described condition.

If the item arrives damaged it should be the seller's responsibility to refund and pursue insurance claim.

[charliedid]

Tell the seller we are on our way...

And yes, there is a buyer/seller feedback thread at the top of the classifieds. If it can't be worked out please just post it there in a respectful manner. That's what it is for after all.

[NickR]

If you have insurance, the seller has to do the work on the claim. They're the one who has a contract with USPS. Not the buyer.

Nothing to add regarding who's at fault. Regarding the shipping if it was sent via USPS priority, it comes with $50 insurance. If it was process through your employer it might have $100 insurance. Seller needs to process the claim and wait for USPS to respond. Regardless of what the USPS counter person tell you.

[vqdriver]

.... the seller packed the item extremely well and there was absolutely no damage to the box or packaging.


it doesn't seem like the op believes the usps to be at fault, why all the talk of a claim if they didn't do anything wrong?

[pbarry]

it doesn't seem like the op believes the usps to be at fault, why all the talk of a claim if they didn't do anything wrong?

Right. That's called fraud.

[ntb1001]

it doesn't seem like the op believes the usps to be at fault, why all the talk of a claim if they didn't do anything wrong?
That's my point to the seller.

I have not heard back from the seller since yesterday. ..I guess he is not interested in settling this.

I guess I will post my review tomorrow in the feedback section.

[justinrchan]

Did you pay through Paypal? Is there anyway you can remediate through them if you did?

[ntb1001]

Used PayPal. ..but sent as gift so seller would not have fees.

I just posted my experiance in the feedback section.

[kramnnim]

:no: Paypal Gift... :no:

:banana:

Even if you could have used Paypal to get your money back, you would've had to pay the $35 to send it back.

...is the damage the ~10mm round dent, and nothing else? Hard to tell from the picture.

[Jason E]

Looks like it. Seems like an over reaction, but maybe it is not a good picture.

A dimple in the plastic shell does not mean the helmet is garbage.

If something that minimal mattered I have to wonder why you'd even consider buying a used helmet. Someone may have put it down too firmly on a bed of pillows.

[oldguy00]

After seeing the pic.....
If I were the seller, I'd still offer to take it back....but I'm nice like that. :)

That said, I have to admit, that doesn't look like that big a deal, certainly not a crash impact. Agree that if something like that bothers you, you shouldn't be buying used. If you like the helmet, I wouldn't let that little spot bother you.
Hope it works out.

[bikinchris]

Without knowing more, your offer seems more than fair.

If insured...USPS insurance claims blow. If I sold something that got damaged in shipping, I would make the buyer happy and then suffer through the claim myself.

Generally, the shipper is the one who has to file the claim anyway.

And asking for PayPal gift is a sign of a fraud happening. Anyone willing to defraud PayPal is willing to defraud you.

[AngryScientist]

you should never use the paypal gift function, unless of course; you are giving someone money as a gift.

i can totally see the angst, but personally i would not hesitate to wear that helmet with that small ding, but i'm not a safety freak either. if you are, buying a used helmet is probably not the best bet in the first place.

[kramnnim]

And asking for PayPal gift is a sign of a fraud happening. Anyone willing to defraud PayPal is willing to defraud you.

Is it defrauding Paypal? It's not really called a "gift" payment, it's "Friends and Family", ie, people you trust.

[ntb1001]

I'm more bothered about how the seller reacted to me.
The photo really isn't very good the dent is deeper than it looks.
I only consider the used helmet because it was described as virtualy new...and I have a hard time finding something that's comfortable so I thought I would gamble with it.

[oldguy00]

And when you send a gift, paypal still collects a fee from the sender. They ain't doing anything for free. They get to collect money, and they are off the hook if something goes wrong. I wouldn't call it fraud...

[oldguy00]

I'm more bothered about how the seller reacted to me.
The photo really isn't very good the dent is deeper than it looks.
I only consider the used helmet because it was described as virtualy new...and I have a hard time finding something that's comfortable so I thought I would gamble with it.

Fair enough. And I saw the pics from the ad, and it doesn't look like it is there pre-shipping, so I understand you would expect no dents upon arrival.

Well, the seller has pretty much been outed now (easy to find the original ad). Chalk it up to a bad experience.

[kramnnim]

And when you send a gift, paypal still collects a fee from the sender. They ain't doing anything for free. They get to collect money, and they are off the hook if something goes wrong. I wouldn't call it fraud...

There's no fee if you fund it with Paypal balance or from your bank account.

[oldguy00]

There's no fee if you fund it with Paypal balance or from your bank account.

Ah, right, I stand corrected! I always use a CC..

[Charles M]

Hmmm....

Sounds like either the buyer or the seller is bad.

[jghall]

May have missed it, but was the package sent usps or ups?

Believe ups automatically insures for $100.

[Jason E]

Hmmm....

Sounds like either the buyer or the seller is bad.

:)

[ntb1001]

Hmmm....

Sounds like either the buyer or the seller is bad.

Well....it's not me....The seller won't even respond to me anymore.

Anyway...it's not enough money to worry about...just thought I would let everyone know about my experiance to avoid a repeat in the future.

[christian]

Wait, seriously. That's a truckload of posts for that size dent. Poor form of the seller not to disclose, but that's a pimple, not a scar.

[pdmtong]

Wait, seriously. That's a truckload of posts for that size dent. Poor form of the seller not to disclose, but that's a pimple, not a scar.

EXCEPT that this is a pimple on helmet - unlike a snag on a rear jersey pocket.

if you dont disclose that, I question any other alleged facts about the helmet....

[54ny77]

and here i thought this thread was all about political intrigue and international espionage that you weren't allowed to talk about, since you were disavowed.

you're saying this is about bike stuff? YAWN.

;)

[ultraman6970]

well all depends of how you see the things you know... for small 5 bucks gift gives the chance to the seller to get more money, and in those small transactions asa seller you can even return the money or something if the buyer did not like it or find an arrangement because the amounts are more forgivable (per sey, all depends of the point of view).

For large sums or large items the best is to use paypal and pay the fees or if something happens you are too exposed as a buyer.


Is it defrauding Paypal? It's not really called a "gift" payment, it's "Friends and Family", ie, people you trust.