Another Wahoo Kickr question

[makoti]

To use this thing with Campy, you have to change the freehub. The Official one costs $70. Is there an unofficial version? Will the one I use with my Powertaps work? It looks the same. I realize this is a bit doubtful, but if anyone knows of a less expensive way to do this, I'd love to know.
Thanks.

[Hank Scorpio]

This is one of the reasons I was put off buying the kickr. You spend over 1k for a trainer and then the company nickel and dimes you for small parts that should be included like the speed/cadence sensor and the campy freehub. Both together add over $100 to an already pricey device. Why not just sell a campy version out of the box or offer a credit for the returned shimano freehub. I just checked their site and see that they are also selling refurb'd units as well. They have been around what one year? And they ready have enough refurbs that they can offer them for sale? Rut roh!

[kramnnim]

Could you just use a Shimano 11sp cassette?

[dekindy]

This is one of the reasons I was put off buying the kickr. You spend over 1k for a trainer and then the company nickel and dimes you for small parts that should be included like the speed/cadence sensor and the campy freehub. Both together add over $100 to an already pricey device. Why not just sell a campy version out of the box or offer a credit for the returned shimano freehub. I just checked their site and see that they are also selling refurb'd units as well. They have been around what one year? And they ready have enough refurbs that they can offer them for sale? Rut roh!

You are definitely not with the trainer market. All the other product offerings do the same thing, are more expensive, and proprietary. Besides, a lot of folks already have their own sensors and monitors. Unbundling has been the norm in about every industry for a long time now.

My buddy did get a defective unit and had to return it. Probably just a misadjusted sensor. These units are replacing Computrainers in applications that users go to workout centers and pay per session or package fees to use; so with high volume usage some may be back for refurbishing? Anyway, thanks for the tip as I will look at the refurbished models as I was not aware of them!

[thirdgenbird]

Could you just use a Shimano 11sp cassette?

Not if you use 10spd

A shimano 9spd cassettes and some adjustments may work ok for campy 10.

[JasonF]

I just bought a Kickr and have only 2 workouts on it but so far find it a useful tool to maintain fitness when I'm time-crunched and can't ride outdoors.

The unit works great with Trainerroad so that the Kickr is controlled by the Trainerroad workout selected. In other words, leaving the Kickr in "erg" mode allows it to be controlled by Trainerroad and resistance is automatically and seamlessly adjusted based on the particular watts the workout calls for.

I'm using the Campy freehub and was also a little annoyed that there was an upcharge for it as it seems they could simply ship a unit and include the appropriate freehub body to be installed by the end user. Anyway, I think you could get away using the provided Shimano cassette especially since you can leave the bike in a single gear and let the Kickr control resistance. In this way, the typical problems associated with using a Shimano cassette with Campy is irrelevant (e.g., poor shifting, differently spaced cogs, etc...)

[dekindy]

IAnyway, I think you could get away using the provided Shimano cassette especially since you can leave the bike in a single gear and let the Kickr control resistance. In this way, the typical problems associated with using a Shimano cassette with Campy is irrelevant (e.g., poor shifting, differently spaced cogs, etc...)

You would have to explain this to me as not having to use the gearing to change resistance and being able to have the appropriate gear and cadence for the resistance is what I would consider a major advantage for these types of trainers. I need help with climbing.

[makoti]

Not if you use 10spd

A shimano 9spd cassettes and some adjustments may work ok for campy 10.

And that is the situation. Campy 10. Plus, if you do use Shimano 11, you need to get an adapter for that to work. It's only 9/10 right now.

[makoti]

I just bought a Kickr and have only 2 workouts on it but so far find it a useful tool to maintain fitness when I'm time-crunched and can't ride outdoors.

The unit works great with Trainerroad so that the Kickr is controlled by the Trainerroad workout selected. In other words, leaving the Kickr in "erg" mode allows it to be controlled by Trainerroad and resistance is automatically and seamlessly adjusted based on the particular watts the workout calls for.

I'm using the Campy freehub and was also a little annoyed that there was an upcharge for it as it seems they could simply ship a unit and include the appropriate freehub body to be installed by the end user. Anyway, I think you could get away using the provided Shimano cassette especially since you can leave the bike in a single gear and let the Kickr control resistance. In this way, the typical problems associated with using a Shimano cassette with Campy is irrelevant (e.g., poor shifting, differently spaced cogs, etc...)

Hadn't thought of this, but I'd think that you'd want to be able to change gears at some point.

[kramnnim]

Oops, I forgot about you C10 users...

And yeah, you don't really need to shift if you use Erg mode. It automatically adjusts the resistance, regardless of your cadence, etc.

[BSBD]

I just bought a Kickr and have only 2 workouts on it but so far find it a useful tool to maintain fitness when I'm time-crunched and can't ride outdoors.

The unit works great with Trainerroad so that the Kickr is controlled by the Trainerroad workout selected. In other words, leaving the Kickr in "erg" mode allows it to be controlled by Trainerroad and resistance is automatically and seamlessly adjusted based on the particular watts the workout calls for.

I'm using the Campy freehub and was also a little annoyed that there was an upcharge for it as it seems they could simply ship a unit and include the appropriate freehub body to be installed by the end user. Anyway, I think you could get away using the provided Shimano cassette especially since you can leave the bike in a single gear and let the Kickr control resistance. In this way, the typical problems associated with using a Shimano cassette with Campy is irrelevant (e.g., poor shifting, differently spaced cogs, etc...)

However, you are going to want to go off "erg" mode on occasion to do FTP tests if that's important to you.

I kind of went through some of this recently as I have a Powerbeam Pro I picked up last year. I think it is a great unit but the software that they have contracted out (Virtual Training) is nice but very rough around the edges. I think Trainer Road is the far better solution. The biggest thing for me as I run power on the bike (Stages) and still wanted to run the "erg" functionality of the trainer which Virtual Training can't do. Virtual Training only lets you select one or the other. Additionally, even though Stages provides cadence, Virtual Training couldn't cleave that off the Power packets coming from the arm so I would've had to run another cadence sensor, which I could never get working consistently. This was in addition to their support just giving up on the case.

Trainer Road I like because I can have it control the trainer, get the power from the power meter, and actually provides feedback over the ANT+ pairing so you can see what is going on whereas on VT it's kind of an anybodies guess affair. Also, their training plans and work outs are nicer than anything I saw on VT. As a FYI, I tried both their iPad and Windows versions.

[makoti]

To answer my own question...Yes, you must use their freehub to make it work. Pisses me off, but that's it.
And they do have refurbs for $900. Just got one with the hub for $970, so about $130 less than a new one without the hub. Comes with a 1 year warranty, same as new.

[Hank Scorpio]

I was using Trainerroad this past winter with rollers and it is somewhat difficult to get a really hard workout in because you cant just jump on and blast away. Well probably some people could but I am not that great at rollers yet. I wanted to buy a device that would offer a more consistent workout without having to worry about launching myself into the dresser during hard efforts.

DC rainmaker has the best comparison of trainers I was able to find. I was intrigued by the ability of TR to control the Kickr but there are few complaints of it not working that well in the TR discussion forum. That was a while ago so I am sure a lot of the bugs have been worked out by now. It seems that all of the power based trainers (powerbeam, kickr, lemond revolution, b'kool) have drawbacks that are either hardware or software related. I guess I should look into the Kickr again and just continue to use my garmin speed and cadence sensor.

[Hank Scorpio]

I have a semi related question. If you could only purchase one or the other would it be better to purchase a Powertap wheel and normal non powered trainer or a power based unit like the Kickr? I understand the pt wheel will be more versatile in the long run as it can be used outside but would the indoor training benefits of the Kickr be better?

[kramnnim]

Power meter would be better.

[MattTuck]

I was using Trainerroad this past winter with rollers and it is somewhat difficult to get a really hard workout in because you cant just jump on and blast away. Well probably some people could but I am not that great at rollers yet. I wanted to buy a device that would offer a more consistent workout without having to worry about launching myself into the dresser during hard efforts.

DC rainmaker has the best comparison of trainers I was able to find. I was intrigued by the ability of TR to control the Kickr but there are few complaints of it not working that well in the TR discussion forum. That was a while ago so I am sure a lot of the bugs have been worked out by now. It seems that all of the power based trainers (powerbeam, kickr, lemond revolution, b'kool) have drawbacks that are either hardware or software related. I guess I should look into the Kickr again and just continue to use my garmin speed and cadence sensor.

Pez (a member here) did a review of the Wahoo Kickr that was very positive. Suggesting it was good enough to displace other trainers including rollers, I believe.

To me, $1000 is a lot to spend on something that has lots of moving parts, is still fairly new and only has a 1 year warranty. If the price were $500, I'd probably get one.

Rollers are probably best served as an adjunct training device to develop pedaling form. Not so good for power workouts.

You could probably pick up something like a Fluid trainer from one of the brands used, for short money. As I understand it, if you have a wireless cadence/speed sensor, trainer road can take that information in, and calculate power based off of the power curve of various trainers.

That seems like a less expensive solution to me.

[KonaSS]

If you could only purchase one or the other would it be better to purchase a Powertap wheel and normal non powered trainer or a power based unit like the Kickr? I understand the pt wheel will be more versatile in the long run as it can be used outside but would the indoor training benefits of the Kickr be better?


For $1,000, and some smart shopping, you could get a new or barely used Powertap and decent Fluid trainer.

If that is all you have, I wouldn't even consider the Kickr. With this setup, you can pretty much do everything you can do an a Kickr, plus have power when you ride outside!!! Which is what I hope you are getting plenty of time to do.

If you are going to train with power, the more you use it, the more benefit you get.

[mistermo]

I'm following this thread too. What's the general consensus on the best stationary trainer for the dollar these days?

[dekindy]

I'm following this thread too. What's the general consensus on the best stationary trainer for the dollar these days?

What type?

I would say a Kurt Kinetic or Cyclops fluid paired with Trainerroad.com is the most cost-effective.

For advanced trainers, Wahoo Kickr hands down. Open source and design of Kickr is state of the art. Only doubt is durability but I would feel confident in Wahoo as it is solidly built and the company has a good reputation. On the other hand Computrainers are built like tanks and some used units might be attractive as Computrainers are replaced by Kickr.

[oldguy00]

For $1,000, and some smart shopping, you could get a new or barely used Powertap and decent Fluid trainer.

If that is all you have, I wouldn't even consider the Kickr. With this setup, you can pretty much do everything you can do an a Kickr, plus have power when you ride outside!!! Which is what I hope you are getting plenty of time to do.

If you are going to train with power, the more you use it, the more benefit you get.

That is -not- true. You are missing the real magic of the Kickr (and Computrainer). The Erg mode. It can take you through all your workouts, forcing you to push the proper power for each workout, intervals, etc. All a powertap or any other bike mounted power meter does is display what power you happen to be pushing, but doesn't hod you to a certain power at any given time. Thats not to say a powertap can't be useful and used well, but it is not the same thing as a trainer with erg mode.

I have both. A kicker, and a powertap. The powertap has thus far been eye candy on the road, the kickr has been my training tool for the past 10 months, and resulted in a 10% FTP increase over the winter.
That said, I will be starting to use the power meter during my races, triathlons, in order to keep an eye on my power output and stay within my required zones while doing half and full ironman competitions. But as far as training goes, it's still all the Kickr.

[oldguy00]

And for those wanting to use Campy 10, why not just leave the supplied 10 speed shimano/sram cassette on there? I've had 10 speed bikes in the past that I was able to tune up to work with either a campy or shimano 10 wheel. And as others have said, you really hardly ever need to shift gears on the Kickr.

Same obviously goes for 11 speed campy users....use a shimano 11 cassette..

[shovelhd]

I paid $120 for my used Kurt Kinetic trainer. It's still hanging in there. The only thing that the Wahoo has that the KK doesn't is erg mode and that's not worth a grand to me. I can't take the Wahoo to the races so I would have to keep the KK.

[oldguy00]

I paid $120 for my used Kurt Kinetic trainer. It's still hanging in there. The only thing that the Wahoo has that the KK doesn't is erg mode and that's not worth a grand to me. I can't take the Wahoo to the races so I would have to keep the KK.

Thats cool, different strokes for different folks. I know that for me, there is nothing else that I could have spent $1000 on that would have given me the benefits I got from the Kickr. Oh, and not trying to be a poster boy for them, more being a poster boy for any trainer that has erg mode. Kickr, CT, Saris Powerbeam?, etc.
Folks won't think twice about dropping 3k on a carbon frame, or 1-2k on wheels, yet they offer minimal returns.

[BSBD]

That is -not- true. You are missing the real magic of the Kickr (and Computrainer). The Erg mode. It can take you through all your workouts, forcing you to push the proper power for each workout, intervals, etc. All a powertap or any other bike mounted power meter does is display what power you happen to be pushing, but doesn't hod you to a certain power at any given time. Thats not to say a powertap can't be useful and used well, but it is not the same thing as a trainer with erg mode.

I have both. A kicker, and a powertap. The powertap has thus far been eye candy on the road, the kickr has been my training tool for the past 10 months, and resulted in a 10% FTP increase over the winter.
That said, I will be starting to use the power meter during my races, triathlons, in order to keep an eye on my power output and stay within my required zones while doing half and full ironman competitions. But as far as training goes, it's still all the Kickr.

I currently am finding I get the best gains from trainer riding but having power on the road helps with pacing, especially on long rides.

[makoti]

What type?

I would say a Kurt Kinetic or Cyclops fluid paired with Trainerroad.com is the most cost-effective.

For advanced trainers, Wahoo Kickr hands down. Open source and design of Kickr is state of the art. Only doubt is durability but I would feel confident in Wahoo as it is solidly build and the company has a good reputation. On the other hand Computrainers are built like tanks and some used units might be attractive as Computrainers are replaced by Kickr.

I have a PT (two, actually), PerfPro & a KK. They work great together. I got some really solid off-season training in because of the combo. Much more than I would have with just the KK, or likely just the KK & PT. I'm now getting the Kickr because I used a Computrainer with PerfPro once last winter & loved the workout it gave. Loved the idea that it would adjust so I HAD to push the watts, and the variety it seemed to offer. I hope to ride in the Alps this winter. ;)
I'm thinking of selling the KK, but will likely keep it for this next off-season.
Everyone is different. Without PerfPro, I could not stand to be on a trainer for more than 30 minutes & it was usually a waste of time. With it, I was doing 60-120 min workouts all the time.
Keeping the PT (at least one. May sell the other) for sure for outside. I don't use it as much outside, but twice a week to be sure. It is great for keeping you focused on what you are trying to get done.
Long winded way of saying I agree. PT, KK, and either PerfPro or TrainerRoad (went PP b/c it's a one time fee) if money is snug. I'm hoping that the Kickr & PP will prove to be worth the $$. And honestly, I've spent more on stupider stuff. A trip to Vegas comes to mind... ;)

[oldguy00]

..... I could not stand to be on a trainer for more than 30 minutes & it was usually a waste of time. With it, I was doing 60-120 min workouts all the time. ....

Same thing with me, could never last more than 30 minutes before, now I top out around 2 hours+. Also, I never realized how easy I had been taking it on indoor trainers until I started using the power based workouts from TrainerRoad!

[Hank Scorpio]

For $1,000, and some smart shopping, you could get a new or barely used Powertap and decent Fluid trainer.

If that is all you have, I wouldn't even consider the Kickr. With this setup, you can pretty much do everything you can do an a Kickr, plus have power when you ride outside!!! Which is what I hope you are getting plenty of time to do.

If you are going to train with power, the more you use it, the more benefit you get.

This is what I was thinking as well. I started using Trainerroad this February and I was able to increse my estimated FTP over an estimated 50 watts in a short time using Trutrainer rollers and Garmin 500. I am sure that is a conjunction of being more familiar with the test, increased fitness and getting more comfortable on the rollers. I was planning on joining TR earlier this year and using a dedicated trainer like the Kurt Kinetic that would yield a repeatable workout. On the rollers I would usually run out of safety before I run out of gearing. It would be nice to be able to carry over workouts to the road as well instead utilizing power in addition to HR.