ID Help: Mystery Columbus EL frame

[Titanium]

Hi All, i am hoping someone here in this vast and highly knowledgeable forum can identify this frame that I have an opportunity to buy. It is made from Columbus EL,fillet brazed at all joints but BB which is lugged ,somewhat unusual geometry 59 ctc ST,-56.5 ctc TT and has a "W" cut out in BB shell. Thanks!

[ultraman6970]

I have seen the stays positioning but cant remember where. As for the W... waterford?? custom maybe?

[Titanium]

Thanks,Ultraman.It would be nice if it was a Waterford,but i dont think so. The previous owner mentioned that the guy he bought it from mentioned the name Walter,but was not sure.

[ultraman6970]

Walter Croll??

[technicolor]

Waltworks?

[aptivaboy]

Walter White?

[8aaron8]

Paul Wyganowski maybe? Similar style seat stay attachment at least

[LouDeeter]

What is the bb threading, English or Italian? The W looks a lot like Wilier W.

[Titanium]

Thanks all ,I spoke to Wyganowski and Waltworks and sent pics it is neither of their work. Lou,it does have an Italian BB,Willier would be awesome,but I have never seen one up close. As far as the Walter White guess ,took me a minute as I don't watch much TV,but when I assemble the bike if it 'brakes badly' ,maybe it is him. Any other comments or observation please feel free to share them.Thanks Again!

[choke]

I don't think that the cutout is helpful, I think it's the BB maker rather than the frame maker. The BB on my Pelizzoli looks identical to that pic.

[Titanium]

Choke makes a good point, I have been hung up thinking that it was a makers mark,but how many bikes have we seen with a Cinelli BB that were not Cinellis.Maybe the only thing I see that I have not seen before is the seat stays appear to be brazed onto a piece of metal that is then brazed onto the the seat tube.Bear in mind I have not seen the frame in person yet ,just pics.
In addition to IDing the frame does anyone see good or bad aspects of this frame? Thanks!

[Chris]

I think the Torelli EL-OS frames had that seat stay. Those were built by Mondonico. Maybe the w is an m. I had a Mondonico Neuron bike. Loved it, but I don't remember the bb shell

[ultraman6970]

That could be a torrelli nitro express???

http://www.bikyle.com/images/Road2010/Torelli_Nitro_Express_red_panel.jpg

[Titanium]

Torelli/ Mondonico would be great and Ultramans pic of the Nitro definitely shows similar seatstay positioning. I have always lusted after one of the mono stay Mondonicos. Everybody seems to be proposing really good makers ,so I am hoping whatever it is will be of that quality.

[Matt-H]

I think the Torelli EL-OS frames had that seat stay. Those were built by Mondonico. Maybe the w is an m. I had a Mondonico Neuron bike. Loved it, but I don't remember the bb shell

This was my first thought.

[EricEstlund]

The "W" cut out and mention of "Walter" may well just indicate the BB shell. Walter is a line of frame components (shells, lugs, etc).

[Titanium]

Thanks Eric,Than we definitely will stop focusing on the"W".Does any aspect of it look at all familiar?

[EricEstlund]

I'm not a frame collector, so my info will be limited. It looks like most of the frame components are Italian, so I would guess it came from an Italian job shop* Maybe Guerciotti- they did an El-OS fillet bike much like this.

*Edit- "job-shop" isn't pejorative. Many of the Italian firms made product for other brands, and many contracted with smaller shops. Makes the hands involved more of an enigma, but then that wasn't the emphasis on these.

[choke]

FWIW, I assumed that was a M rather than a W.....typically BB cutouts are designed to be read from the front of the bike (check out the ones in this thread (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=142577)). The fact that the threads are Italian almost certainly points to the country of origin.

Since Pelizzoli used to run Coppi, which is owned by F.lli Masciaghi, I considered that he might have some of their old BBs laying around. However, I never found a BB on a Coppi that matched in my google searches.

[Titanium]

I think Choke and Eric are on to something with the Italian/ Coppi connection. I found this pic of a Coppi El bike.That seat cluster,dropouts,ect look pretty close.

[Titanium]

The finished product.Another far more knowledgeable source than I thought it might be a Wilierhttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/15/0726874cad4714ddc564a16b4e42393f.jpg

[LouDeeter]

https://www.google.com/search?q=images+coppi+columbus&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCkQ7AlqFQoTCPD3lIiTksYCFZBVkgod1kMJ7Q&biw=1853&bih=905

I like Coppi over Wilier. Looking at the images of Wilier, they don't show the same seat stay attachment slightly below the junction of the top tube. But, Coppi does.

[Titanium]

Maybe your right, Coppi, Wilier either way I am happy.It rides great and is stupid light.