Slaying the Badger uploaded

[Veloo]

Not by me. Watch it before they pull it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elo5_iNEjRo&sns=fb

[wallymann]

it's a good watch, nice to see the pictures/video clips from BITD.

also, nice to see lemond not sounding soooo b!tchy, having Kathy there at his side seemed to help alot.

if you miss the show, the book on which its based is also quite good -- IMO it's worth taking in both both, simply because some things came across in the video that weren't written in the book and vice-versa:

http://www.amazon.com/Slaying-Badger-Bernard-Hinault-Greatest/dp/1934030872

[cdn_bacon]

thank you!!!!:banana:

If you understand French,

this one is good. The reporters aren't shy with Hinault and his tactics. Although Paul Köchli is a great villain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkszNRQDbRU

[stephenmarklay]

I happily paid the $2.99 on Amazon. My 8 year old daughter and I watched it together.

BTW I would not let Paul Köchli near my children. He seems like a weird dude.

[weehastogopee]

yeeees! Thank you!!

[joosttx]

It's on iTunes as well.

[Wilkinson4]

Good stuff… Kathy is aces. The badger is the badger no doubt.

mIKE

[leooooo]

BTW I would not let Paul Köchli near my children. He seems like a weird dude.

Children?!? I wouldn't even let him near me :p

[tiretrax]

also, nice to see lemond not sounding soooo b!tchy, having Kathy there at his side seemed to help alot.


It was on ESPN and ABC last week. It'll probably be repeated soon.

Seriously, I couldn't disagree with you more. My impression of GL is how pissed off at the world he is, starting with Hinault and taking it out on LA. He seemed to gloat at now being the only american winner of the TdF, and the epilogue cemented that impression. He reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QsNXd57Ppw

[Jgrooms]

GL, sadly, lives in a state of what might have been.

[wallymann]

Seriously, I couldn't disagree with you more. My impression of GL is how pissed off at the world he is, starting with Hinault and taking it out on LA.

i agree, but my point is that this interview he's ALOT more pleasant than he's been in the past. he used to be much, much, much worse!

that being said, GL was an immature 18 year-old in europe trailblazing in the hidebound and insular european peloton...he was up against it and got it done despite monumental struggles. as an adult i appreciate his accomplishments even more, so i cut GL alot of slack for his particular way of expressing himself.

[bobswire]

Not by me. Watch it before they pull it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elo5_iNEjRo&sns=fb

Thanks for the link, been wanting to watch it.

[mcteague]

It was on ESPN and ABC last week. It'll probably be repeated soon.

Seriously, I couldn't disagree with you more. My impression of GL is how pissed off at the world he is, starting with Hinault and taking it out on LA. He seemed to gloat at now being the only american winner of the TdF, and the epilogue cemented that impression. He reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QsNXd57Ppw

Yeah, that is what many of the LA fans seem to feel. Many of us have a different opinion of Lemond. If someone ruined my business I would be a bit pissed off as well.

Tim

[MattTuck]

A friend of mine (not a guy that rides, but enjoys sports and sorta pays attention to the tour) watched it the other night and texted me, "Watching a documentary on greg lemond. he's kind of a prick. arrogant."

Lemond is a complicated human. But so are most champions. He is the product of his experiences, and his experiences were pretty hostile.

[Tony Edwards]

LeMond is clearly a complicated person. The armchair psychiatrist in me thinks that his history as a sexual abuse victim has contributed to what seems like a certain level of psychological brittleness. I'm glad he has come out publicly about that since the issue arose in 2007, and I would hope he has had therapy - it seems likely because he seems to be doing well.

Watching Slaying the Badger, I was struck that Hinault's comment about the '86 Tour not being over was actually fairly benign - he qualified it by saying that he was really only talking about taking over the race in the event that LeMond crashed or was taken ill. Frankly it would just make sense that he and the team owners would want him to win the race if LeMond could not, for whatever reason. It seemed to me that Kochli's goofy unwillingness to commit to supporting a single rider as the team's Tour GC pick was a bigger problem than anything Hinault did or said.

LeMond has a paranoid streak that seems to make him predisposed to viewing things as slights to him and his legacy - clearly this is why he was so aggressive about going after Lance in his heyday. Obviously he was right (as I think most reasonably knowledgeable cycling fans believed at the time), but I always felt his quest to drag Lance down reflected poorly on LeMond and was not a great thing for the sport.

In any case, I consider LeMond a heroic figure and a man to be admired. I can't say the same for Lance.

[NickR]

Not by me. Watch it before they pull it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elo5_iNEjRo&sns=fb

Thanks for the link, missed the broadcast.

[wallymann]

LeMond is clearly a complicated person. The armchair psychiatrist in me thinks that his history as a sexual abuse victim has contributed to what seems like a certain level of psychological brittleness. I'm glad he has come out publicly about that since the issue arose in 2007, and I would hope he has had therapy - it seems likely because he seems to be doing well.

Watching Slaying the Badger, I was struck that Hinault's comment about the '86 Tour not being over was actually fairly benign - he qualified it by saying that he was really only talking about taking over the race in the event that LeMond crashed or was taken ill. Frankly it would just make sense that he and the team owners would want him to win the race if LeMond could not, for whatever reason. It seemed to me that Kochli's goofy unwillingness to commit to supporting a single rider as the team's Tour GC pick was a bigger problem than anything Hinault did or said.

LeMond has a paranoid streak that seems to make him predisposed to viewing things as slights to him and his legacy - clearly this is why he was so aggressive about going after Lance in his heyday. Obviously he was right (as I think most reasonably knowledgeable cycling fans believed at the time), but I always felt his quest to drag Lance down reflected poorly on LeMond and was not a great thing for the sport.

In any case, I consider LeMond a heroic figure and a man to be admired. I can't say the same for Lance.

great post. agree across-the-board.

[tiretrax]

I only admire GL for his prowess on the bike. I'll cut him some slack for the sexual abuse (although, could that have been a ploy to draw out a confession from Floyd? Never heard much about it after that exchange. I can't help the cynicism). His efforts to take down LA preceded LA ruining his business and precipitated the demise of the original LeMond cycles.

No, I'm no LA fanboy, and I don't idolize any athletes. All the greatest have some sordid linens, whether they were aired publicly or hidden. I just love the sport in general, especially the cobbled and mountain race and stages.

[Tony Edwards]

I only admire GL for his prowess on the bike. I'll cut him some slack for the sexual abuse (although, could that have been a ploy to draw out a confession from Floyd? Never heard much about it after that exchange. I can't help the cynicism).

Talk about a bizarro conspiracy theory. So in your world, he then proceeded to found a charitable foundation for men who were victims of child sexual abuse . . . to cover his tracks?

[bcroslin]

Read the book "Wheelmen" and you'll understand why Greg hates Lance so much and why he held a grudge for so long. Lemond may be paranoid but it's because they were out to get him.

[tiretrax]

Talk about a bizarro conspiracy theory. So in your world, he then proceeded to found a charitable foundation for men who were victims of child sexual abuse . . . to cover his tracks?

Like I said, I never heard any more about it after he tried to elicit a confession from Landis. I never heard about the foundaton or about him promoting it. As I stated earlier, his fixation on LA was and is what is bizarro.

Armstrong went after anyone that disagreed with or was a threat to him. LeMond was no different than the Andreus, Emma Pooley, David Walsh, or so many more.

[Chris]

If you read the book, Lemond does not necessarily come across as the victim. In interviews with Hampsten and Bauer, it's clear that Hinault was the more fair and charitable individual. I'm a huge Lemond fan, but when you read about how Greg wanted to win everything at his teammate's expense compared to when Andy was winning the Tour de Suisse but was having trouble riding in the rain and Hinault pulled him the whole stage to the side of the field, you can't help but think that the media may have used the evil Frenchman slant for drama.

[pzung]

Thank you. Finally watched it.

It was on TV at 5pm last week. No way to escape work and enjoy it.


Not by me. Watch it before they pull it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elo5_iNEjRo&sns=fb

[Hawker]

Was out of town but thank goodness for TIVO. I thought this was very well done indeed. ESPN can do some quality documentaries that's for sure.

When you really take the time to look at Lemond's innate talent you can't help but be impressed. At 14 he was winning almost all his races against grown men and was really just several notches above anyone in the US during those early years.

Train all you want but sometimes the right DNA just shows itself. Reminds me a bit of Bo Jackson doing things in college and pro baseball and football that just left his team members in awe.

[wallymann]

Train all you want but sometimes the right DNA just shows itself.

read this book: the Sports Gene http://www.amazon.com/dp/1591845114

train all you want, but if you want to be a world-class athlete...without the right parents you're wasting your time!

[rustychisel]

you can't help but think that the media may have used the evil Frenchman slant for drama.


No? You think?

Okay, I'm mocking.... of course that was a rational and easy explanation of the times for what was seen as a baffling contretemps within a team. And then it became enshrined as a convenient truth.

From the same media contingent who brought you 'freedom fries' because French fries had suddenly become [politically] unpalatable.

[kophinos]

thanks for this!

[bheight1]

Like I said, I never heard any more about it after he tried to elicit a confession from Landis. I never heard about the foundaton or about him promoting it. As I stated earlier, his fixation on LA was and is what is bizarro.

Armstrong went after anyone that disagreed with or was a threat to him. LeMond was no different than the Andreus, Emma Pooley, David Walsh, or so many more.

Lemond was the greatest American cyclist, Lance wanted to be! Big difference between GL and these others.

Great film by the way! Brought me to the place where I was inspired by cycling. This, and RAAM with Jock Boyer.

[TBDSeattle]

I only admire GL for his prowess on the bike. I'll cut him some slack for the sexual abuse (although, could that have been a ploy to draw out a confession from Floyd? Never heard much about it after that exchange. I can't help the cynicism).

Talk about a bizarro conspiracy theory. So in your world, he then proceeded to found a charitable foundation for men who were victims of child sexual abuse . . . to cover his tracks?

Like I said, I never heard any more about it after he tried to elicit a confession from Landis. I never heard about the foundaton or about him promoting it.

Thanks internet, now I've read it all.

Someone suggests that LeMond lies about sexual abuse to get Landis to confess he used PEDs, get's called out for making a bizarre accusation and told that LeMond started a foundation to address sexual abuse, and then says they have never heard of the foundation.

Can we all be in charge of our own google search before we accuse someone of lying about sexual abuse as a ploy?

3 second rebuttal. (http://bit.ly/1nWGDpB)

I'm logging out of here and going on a ride.

[blessthismess]

I love classic cycling films but this one left me wanting more. Hinault was a bad ass, old school cyclist. I feel like after the Lance scandal the USA/ESPN is forced to look for someone to idolize so obviously Greg is the only other choice, which makes Bernard the villain. Lemond is the first (and technically the only) american to win the tour and deserves legitimate credit and appreciation for that, but this whole film felt like a desperate attempt to rally americans opinions towards an american cyclist. Furthermore I feel "Sam Abt's" contribution to the film could have been completely removed. He seemed like rabid and unbiased Lemond fanatic.

[Bstone]

No doubt, Hinault is a trickster. Pretty likeable actually. Really liked yanking Lemonds chain.

In all fairness to Lemond, he probably felt like he was riding against Hinault, the rest of the team (minus Hampsten) and the entire country of France. Difficult for anyone.

Its funny. Lemond does come off as a prickly pear. Hinault, on the other hand, is happy as a pig in slop, even as he tells baldfaced lie after baldfaced lie. He is a sh*t.

I hope that Lemond gets to a place of peace regarding all of this. He was clearly the greatest cyclist in the world at that time and played the game by the rules of the time.

[portlandben]

sweet. Thanks for sharing. Still there as of 3:30 PST, Friday.

[bikinchris]

I think it is interesting how Lemond gets a pass on his actions. He went after Lance because lance was seen as being what he wanted to be. The top US cyclist. Lemond gets a pass for chasing down Boyer in the world's and it didn't even get mentioned in this thread or on recent past threads. He LED the chase. He should have sat back and moved only as Boyer was caught, IF he got caught.

[victoryfactory]

Hinault probably meant to support Lemond when he first said it
but the lure of being the
only man to win 6 changed his mind. After all Lemond was young and
would have another chance. And he was an outsider. Even the team directors
saw it that way.
Lemond had good reason to be paranoid. They were out to get him.
One of the most compelling sports stories ever and further proof that
champions are rarely heros. The politics of Euro cycling were what beat
Lemond the first time. Sadly When Lemond finally won his first, it seemed
almost hollow for him.
Greg is an all time great but I think his feeling
short changed has defined his post cycling life. Lesser US talents
escaped with lesser scars it seems to me. Greg was an outsider
who was too good for his own good.

Thanks for posting that link. A compelling watch.

VF

[harlond]

Good show. The stuff about Armstrong had no place in that story, but that's a minor complaint.

[TheseGoTo11]

Interesting how much Hinault does look like a badger after Thomazeau's intro.

[dpk501]

Lemond was way better than Hinault, Armstrong, Fignon and every rider since him.

Why? No one else wants it as bad as he does. The man rode to win while ····ting his shorts and still goes on eating taco bell.

Seriously though, GL is the man.

[rustychisel]

Lemond was way better than Hinault, Armstrong, Fignon and every rider since him.


No.

I doubt it's possible to sustain that level of ignorance, but feel free to go ahead and try. Was he better than Indurain? Perhaps Fausto Coppi?

[dpk501]

No.

I doubt it's possible to sustain that level of ignorance, but feel free to go ahead and try. Was he better than Indurain? Perhaps Fausto Coppi?

Dude, it's a joke. Read the whole context of my post...when a post ends with "seriously though" it's meant to humor or sarcasm.

Don't be accusing one of ignorance when you've missed the boat on the post.:bike:

[rustychisel]

ok, I'll stand corrected.

On first read it looks like you're just icing the cake you made. Have a banana. :banana:

[dpk501]

ok, I'll stand corrected.

On first read it looks like you're just icing the cake you made. Have a banana. :banana:

I read it again! it would have been more apparent if one word wasn't censored. Will crapping show up instead of sh**ting?

Hahaha

[Climb01742]

BTW I would not let Paul Köchli near my children. He seems like a weird dude.

Aside from the major aspects of the film, two things caught my eye.

Kochli seemed incredibly slimy. Wouldn't trust him around any living creature.

And BH really looked beautiful on a bike. He was born to ride a bike.

[mistermo]

Aside from the major aspects of the film, two things caught my eye.

Kochli seemed incredibly slimy. Wouldn't trust him around any living creature.

And BH really looked beautiful on a bike. He was born to ride a bike.

I was young when the GL v. BH battle took place and still prone to black and white thinking. As such, GL was the good guy, and BH was the villain. Along with time and maturity, Slaying the Badger showed me the human side of both. GL is less heroic, and BH is more competitive than I'd ever realized back then.

After Lemond 'ceded' the '85 Tour to Hinault, I became a Coors Classic groupie and followed them around Colorado where I watched Hinault repay his Tour debt to Lemond. Lemond win the Coors Classic. Debt payed.

[Md3000]

Funny though, I grew up in Europe and in 1985 I was 11. That feud was presented to us as: Bernard Hinault is the smart, cunning, French star that knew how the world worked, and Greg was the naive, loudmouth American that was good, but not smart enough to win it because he was focused on secondary things such as fairness and honesty :)

[fogrider]

yeah, I think we forget about how pack animals function...there is an alpha dog to keep everything and everyone in line. BH was that alpha dog and GL was the up and comer, but BH, like all true alpha dogs, was not ready to step down. GL was too nice, and GH thought there was an opportunity to stay top dog. Paul Köchli is a slimmy little dog trying to kiss up to the big dogs, he will sell out his mom in a second. Back then, cycling was not as big as it is now. When he won, he was right to feel like everyone was out to get him, but only half of them were! He was a young american and came to their country to beat their champion.

Can we say GL was the greatest American cyclist? and Eddy Merckx was the greatest?

Hinault probably meant to support Lemond when he first said it
but the lure of being the
only man to win 6 changed his mind. After all Lemond was young and
would have another chance. And he was an outsider. Even the team directors
saw it that way.
Lemond had good reason to be paranoid. They were out to get him.
One of the most compelling sports stories ever and further proof that
champions are rarely heros. The politics of Euro cycling were what beat
Lemond the first time. Sadly When Lemond finally won his first, it seemed
almost hollow for him.
Greg is an all time great but I think his feeling
short changed has defined his post cycling life. Lesser US talents
escaped with lesser scars it seems to me. Greg was an outsider
who was too good for his own good.

Thanks for posting that link. A compelling watch.

VF