What other Ti frames?

[Dead Man]

I'm in the market for a good deal on used Ti, watching craigslist heavily for a Litespeed in a couple different flavors.. also watching for Serotta and Moots and Lynskey, but I know odds of finding one I can budget are pretty damn slim.

But a thought occurred to me tonight, as I tried to come up with some fresh search criteria- Litespeed has made frames for several manufacturers, and there might even be other obscure manufacturers of Ti frames that came and went that might be less known that I could be searching for.. but being new to the whole Ti idea, I could be totally ignorant.

So what else should I be watching for? Any other manufacturers, past or present, or names under which I might find Litespeed-made Ti frames?

Thanks

-B

[Schmed]

Don't forget Indy Fab, Seven, Strong, Form, Eriksen, etc. etc. etc.

Or this

http://boulder.craigslist.org/bik/4571912711.html

[4Rings6Stars]

Some advice you didn't ask for...don't shop for a material, shop for a quality frame that fits you well.

I have had lots of fancy bikes of all materials, and have finally accepted what I have heard here and elsewhere over the years-- the tubing does not make the bike, the builder does. I would much rather a $500 used steel frame that fits like glove and was built by somebody who knows what they are doing than a random ti frame.

If you really must have a ti frame, then just search "ti" and "titanium" on nationwide searches. Most people that are selling a ti frame know what it is and will make sure to include those words in the ad.

(I might just be crazy though. I just sold two ti Serottas and have been exclusively riding a steel Hampsten since. Haven't missed either of them for a second.)

[Dead Man]

Some advice you didn't ask for...don't shop for a material, shop for a quality frame that fits you well.

I have had lots of fancy bikes of all materials, and have finally accepted what I have heard here and elsewhere over the years-- the tubing does not make the bike, the builder does. I would much rather a $500 used steel frame that fits like glove and was built by somebody who knows what they are doing than a random ti frame.

If you really must have a ti frame, then just search "ti" and "titanium" on nationwide searches. Most people that are selling a ti frame know what it is and will make sure to include those words in the ad.

I'm new to Ti, but I'm not exactly new to buying a bike- I'm not looking for Ti any Ti gotta have Ti... I've come across a couplefew deals that were tempting that I opted against for this reason. When I find something that seems like a good deal, I research the frame history, dig up geometry, etc.

[thirdgenbird]

Gt edge, wound up fork, record 10, eurus wheels, Thomson bar, stem, and post...

What are we discussing again?

[nmrt]

Litespeed made frames for Excel Sports under the name Macalu if memory serves me right.

I'm in the market for a good deal on used Ti, watching craigslist heavily for a Litespeed in a couple different flavors.. also watching for Serotta and Moots and Lynskey, but I know odds of finding one I can budget are pretty damn slim.

But a thought occurred to me tonight, as I tried to come up with some fresh search criteria- Litespeed has made frames for several manufacturers, and there might even be other obscure manufacturers of Ti frames that came and went that might be less known that I could be searching for.. but being new to the whole Ti idea, I could be totally ignorant.

So what else should I be watching for? Any other manufacturers, past or present, or names under which I might find Litespeed-made Ti frames?

Thanks

-B

[93legendti]

CC sold Douglas frames. They looked like litespeed to me, but it's been a while since I saw one...

[joosttx]

Steve Potts is about as good as you are going to get. Might as well aim for the stars.

[pdmtong]

Steve Potts is about as good as you are going to get. Might as well aim for the stars.

while I get the sentiment, I am sure you will agree that litespeed and potts do not belong in the same thread.

OTOH, hasn't it been about a year or so since you moved out here? hope things are working out nicely...the weather alone should mean no going back

[cat6]

Be careful with used Ti I heard it doesn't really age well.

[jtakeda]

Merlin

[joosttx]

while I get the sentiment, I am sure you will agree that litespeed and potts do not belong in the same thread.

OTOH, hasn't it been about a year or so since you moved out here? hope things are working out nicely...the weather alone should mean no going back

It will be 3 years in February. Don't plan on leaving. Already took a pay cut to stay. Sorry about being off topic. Carry on...

[Elefantino]

...the tubing does not make the bike, the builder does.
Amen.

[Wilkinson4]

Blacksheep or Dekerf… Might find a solid deal on something like a DEAN.

mIKE

[Hepmike]

Firefly, Holland

[Marburg]

I got the impression the O.P. was looking for other "keyword names" (like Douglas) which might bring up bring up Lynskey/Litespeed-made ti frames ... not the obscura of Potts etc (much as we love them).

That said, there are probably enough Sevens, Merlins, Serottas and maybe IFs out there in the wild, they will show used now and again.

The Lemond carbon-ti spine bikes may also fit the criteria, and GT ti bikes. Weren't there ti Schwinns and all-ti Lemonds as well?

(edit myself: also the Ti Merckx frames were from Litespeed, no?)

[tuscanyswe]

I believe quintana roo (or similar name) were made by litespeed aswell.

[AngryScientist]

what's the actual budget?

seems to me, just looking at ebay often that ti serottas have to be the best deal going right now. lots of them move on ebay for very reasonable money, and there were just so so many produced over the years that they are constantly changing hands, and it doesnt seem to hard to snag a real deal on one.

do you ride a fairly "normal" sized frame? that helps finding one tremendously.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm in the market for a good deal on used Ti, watching craigslist heavily for a Litespeed in a couple different flavors.. also watching for Serotta and Moots and Lynskey, but I know odds of finding one I can budget are pretty damn slim.

But a thought occurred to me tonight, as I tried to come up with some fresh search criteria- Litespeed has made frames for several manufacturers, and there might even be other obscure manufacturers of Ti frames that came and went that might be less known that I could be searching for.. but being new to the whole Ti idea, I could be totally ignorant.

So what else should I be watching for? Any other manufacturers, past or present, or names under which I might find Litespeed-made Ti frames?

Thanks

-B

I think Bianchi had a Litespeed made frame..Merckx, of course. Macalu from Excel were Litespeed. Some early Deams were Sanvik I think...I'd stay away from early Dean produced Dean frames..some I saw in his first year or 2 of making frames were kinda wonky(not straight, brake bridges wrong place, type thing).

Early Litespeed are nice, Vortex, Ultimate..sold a bunch in late 1990s, nice frames.

[RedRider]

Recent prices for Serotta titanium have been ridiculously low.
The Pros Closet, on EBay, sold many surplus bikes from the Factory and other dealers.
Lynskey made frames for the Planet X in the UK and those were reasonably priced when new.

** You should also check out No. 22 bikes. They are making Titanium frames in Upstate, NY and are all ex-Serotta guys. They are building quality at "affordable" prices. Probably get a complete bike at a very good price.

[Ahneida Ride]

I have had lots of fancy bikes of all materials, and have finally accepted what I have heard here and elsewhere over the years-- the tubing does not make the bike, the builder does. I would much rather a $500 used steel frame that fits like glove and was built by somebody who knows what they are doing than a random ti frame.



This is true .... :banana:

[Matthew]

What size are you looking for? I have a 2002 ti Serotta Concours for sale. Recently repainted. Size 54cm. A couple others listed here in the past two weeks as well. All size 54 I think.

[rePhil]

My House brand Colorado Cyclist Douglas was made by TST (Titanium Sports), Kennewick Washington. It was a nice frame.



CC sold Douglas frames. They looked like litespeed to me, but it's been a while since I saw one...

[jghall]

Do not come up often on the used market, but add Strong, Desalvo, and Kish, just to name a few more.

[DRZRM]

AS is right, Serotta ti (especially older Legends and Classics) are selling at very low prices. Moots retains its value much better, IF is sort of in the middle, certainly worth keeping in your search file. As jghall mentioned above, Strong, Desalvos and Kish are also in this group, I'm often surprised how long reasonably priced ti from these brands sit unpurchased. Worth a search here.

Dean, as mentioned above, is another builder that seems not to hold onto its resale value. Merlin and Litespeed also trade pretty cheap. Ti Schwinn Paramounts were made by Serotta out of fairly straight gauge ti (IIRC) but folks thought they were a good deal and rode well.

As for Potts, Firefly, Blacksheep, Matt Chester or Fat Chance, these are collectible and/or quite new, and generally sell at a premium.

What size frame are you looking for, I get the feeling there are a lot of Serotta's hanging around these here parts that people can't be bothered to list as resale has dropped so far. I almost dumped my old Legend for a pittance, but instead invested in a new fork and group and have fallen back in love with it. They seem to regularly go in the ~$1k for frame/fork and under $2K for pretty nice and recent builds.

[Mark McM]

Be careful with used Ti I heard it doesn't really age well.

Huh?

[texbike]

Be careful with used Ti I heard it doesn't really age well.

Yeah, it tends to rust pretty badly... :rolleyes:

Habanero is another one to keep an eye out for. Motobecane has a Chinese-made frame that gets good reviews and can be found fairly cheaply. Litespeed also made Ti frames for Basso.

Ebay is going to be your best bet for casting a wider net. There's a TON of cheap Ti out there...

Good luck.

Texbike

[Hepmike]

Wasn't there a short-lived Scattante branded (ti) Lynskey?

[lookout2015]

So what else should I be watching for? Any other manufacturers, past or present, or names under which I might find Litespeed-made Ti frames?

Thanks

-B

Litespeed built the Basso Gap Ti (mid-90s variants; I think Basso had a later 2000s Ti from elsewhere). I have one and really like how it rides

[donevwil]

Be careful with Litespeed, Merlin and most re-branded names made by them. Too many different eras with acquisitions, quality fluctuations, etc. You really need to know the history to determine who made it, when and at what iteration of the company. For example, early production and early post-acquisition Litespeeds and Merlins suffered quality problems as did a couple early years of the Litespeed Merckxs'. I'd also recommend staying away from lower-tier makers, especially from the 90's, like Ti Cycles, Dean and re-branded overseas stuff. All had a far too high failure rate.

Ultimately I'd say shoot higher with a Serotta, Seven, Moots, etc, or if you get lucky a rarer Hampsten, De Salvo, Holland, Kish, Eriksen, Firefly, etc, etc, etc and, of course the 'cream of the crop', a Potts.

[thirdgenbird]

Wasn't there a short-lived Scattante branded (ti) Lynskey?

Yes

[pitonpat]

I was in precisely the same position as you seem to be. I waited patiently for about 18 months, constantly scanning the EBay listings and Craigslist nationwide searches for a titanium bike. I had my sights set at first only on a Serotta Legend, but over the search period realized that there were a number of other brands which I could be happy with.... Merlin Extralight, DeSalvo, Seven to name a few.

Ultimately, I bid on several bikes/frames on EBay and was always outbid because I was conservative in what I was willing to spend. There were several nice bikes with top components which did not sell, and I communicated privately with the owners to let them know I was still interested if they chose to sell their bikes at some later date.

About 2 months after the close of an EBay auction in which the bike didn't sell, the owner contacted me and accepted my offer which was $800.00 lower than his "reserve". That's how I ended up with my 'new to me' Seven Cycles Axiom, with Campy Record carbon & other high-end components. I'm thrilled & the bike rides like a dream! So, my advice is to be patient, and pursue diligently all the bikes you see which you like, AND, be willing to spend just a little more than you might want to get the ride you're looking for. I missed a couple of great bikes because I'm a notorious tightwad. Good luck! One of these days I'll get around to posting pictures of my new ride in the gallery section of the Forum.

[jamesau]

In addition to what's been suggested, consider also older Lemond frames, specifically the Victoire and Tete de Course (same frames but distinguished by different level components). As I understand it, these were fabricated by Trek's best, specially trained welders from Reynolds tubesets.
Below is geometry table.

[bargainguy]

Not all ti Lemonds were made by Trek. A brief history I posted on another forum:

The Lemond ti frame history is a bit convoluted, but here's what I gathered from the various subcontractors. Lemond had no manufacturing plants AFAIK, they had frames built by others.

#1 : Made by Merlin and designed by Tom Kellogg, the Team Z frame. Merlin had offered Lemond the exclusive rights to the Extralight for a five year licensing agreement but Lemond turned it down due to cost. Turned out beautifully for Merlin - the Extralight set the racing standard for a few years.

#2 : After Merlin stopped making ti for Lemond, Sandvik takes over ti production.

#3 : Subcontracted to Clark Kent in Denver. At first, welding quality was excellent with Ivo Vinklarek and Don Herr manning the torches. Later, CK subcontracted their work out to several different welders and quality suffered; stories of contaminated welds & failures are common. Then CK goes belly up as one of the founders absconds with the cash or some such.

#4 : Trek enters into an agreement with Lemond to sell it as a boutique line. Trek hired Gary Helfrich, formerly of Merlin & Ibis, to build a team of top-notch welders and fabricators to build the ti frames as well as the mixed material bikes - ti spines with carbon stays/TT/ST etc, as well as aluminum/carbon and steel/carbon mixes. The ti spine bikes were around $4-5K new if memory serves.

[avalonracing]

Not all ti Lemonds were made by Trek. A brief history I posted on another forum:

The Lemond ti frame history is a bit convoluted, but here's what I gathered from the various subcontractors. Lemond had no manufacturing plants AFAIK, they had frames built by others.


A team I know of had a number of the Ti Spine bikes crack... at the Ti, so beware.

[jamesau]

A brief history I posted on another forum:

Thanks for that. I believe the frames referred to in my post are the all-Ti from the Helfrich era as you describe. The spine bikes were a bit more upright than the all-Ti bikes, as I recall. In addition to the mixed-material use of carbon and Ti, the spine bikes also featured a more delicate (looking) dropout. (Wondering if the dropout is where failures cited by Avalon' occurred - sorry for thread drift)...

Anyway, to the OP: happy hunting!

[Dead Man]

Oh wow... There are some LeMond Ti bikes for some really litespeed-comparable prices. But the triples, though.... Man, why did LeMond like the triples so much?? I think just about every LeMond I've ever looked at has been a triple, which is largely why I've still never owned one.

[cbresciani]

Titus is another Ti frame builder, originally built in Tempe Arizona, although they don't show up too often they do pop up every once in a while.

[fa63]

Wasn't there a short-lived Scattante branded (ti) Lynskey?
Yeah, I have one. Great frame for the money, was pretty much a hybrid of their R320 and Cooper models at the time.

[Waldo]

Merlin

Extralight.

[Waldo]

My ~1995 Colnago Monotitan kicks ass.

[Dead Man]

What size are you looking for? I have a 2002 ti Serotta Concours for sale. Recently repainted. Size 54cm. A couple others listed here in the past two weeks as well. All size 54 I think.

Not sure how I missed this.... PMing....

[Pete Mckeon]

Many good ones (spectrum, If, moots ericksen, serotta)

Get one that fits you and worry less about 1/2 degree angles ).

Quality of build as others have talked about is key for a happy experience.

Serotta was. And is a good brand ti.


There are now more sellers than buyers so prices are lower for serotta than Moots and some others.

If i wanted a new one now it would most likely be a Moots from Cyclesport since no dealers that i know of in Raleigh

[cnighbor1]

Litespeed had cracking issues at rear drop outs
Davidson in Seattle build a great Ti frame
Ask for Robert Freeman and say Charles Nighbor mentioned you.
Davidson Bicycles
2116 Western Ave
Seattle, WA 98121
Phone: 206-441-9998
Fax: 206-441-1815
Email: info@davidsonbicycles.com

In our first 20 years of making thousands of custom steel road bikes, we learned how to tune our designs specifically to the rider. We carry that tradition forward into our titanium bicycles. We design each bike for the rider and the intended use from the ground up and build them one at a time like the old days. You won’t find a more custom bike anywhere from anyone. We want the bike not only to fit you right but also do all the things you want to do with it.


Standard Build Includes

Frame – Custom Titanium
Fork – Enve 2.0



Titanium Road Prices

Shimano DA 9000 6910
Shimano ULT 6800 5760
Shimano 105 5010
Campagnolo Record 6985
Campagnolo Chorus 6485
SRAM Red 6690
SRAM Force 5310
SRAM Rival 5010
Frame and Fork Only 2910

[lemondvictoire]

In addition to what's been suggested, consider also older Lemond frames, specifically the Victoire and Tete de Course (same frames but distinguished by different level components). As I understand it, these were fabricated by Trek's best, specially trained welders from Reynolds tubesets.
Below is geometry table.

Lemonds Splined ti made in 03 & 04 used Reynolds ti tubing and then made in 05 & 06 using True Temper ti tubing with slightly longer head tube lengths. I've been riding a 04 Lemond Ti with over 20K and still going strong. Also have a 05 Lemond ti as a spare just in case..........But now I seem to like my latest bike a Serotta Fierte IT(Ebay) just a little more than the Lemond......................:eek:

[bargainguy]

Yep, I have this '06 Victoire and it's definitely not racing geometry. And as The B so eloquently stated, it's got a triple....

[izzyfuld]

Buy my gt edge! Made by litespeed :)


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