TDF Stage 11 Live Discussion (Spoilers)

[MattTuck]

Talansky losing more time?

[MattTuck]

And now Garmin on the front of the peloton... the strategic genius of sideburns at work.

[T.J.]

And now Garmin on the front of the peloton... the strategic genius of sideburns at work.

not surprising. their GC hopes are done and they have to focus on a stage win to try and salvage something from this tour

[Vientomas]

And now Garmin on the front of the peloton... the strategic genius of sideburns at work.

So, the whole team should ride with a guy who is clearly cooked and can't stay with the lead group?

[bobswire]

And now Garmin on the front of the peloton... the strategic genius of sideburns at work.

Salt into the wounds.

[ericssonboi]

Let him ride off the back with no support... wow :help:

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Salt into the wounds.

I think JV knows Talansky is cooked. My guess is that the team is given orders to hunt stages, and today isn't likely to be a GC battle. Gotta make lemonade, you know? If AT misses the cut or doesn't it won't impact Garmin's strategy going forward. Cold hard truth.

[gavingould]

lead group nothin, Talansky couldn't hold Van Summeren's wheel trying to pace him back to the main bunch.

i think he's done in this TdF, he's talked to the DS in the car a few times, and their strategy seems to agree with that.

here's where people start saying they should've taken Millar...

well, that's it. stopped roadside and off the bike.

[ericssonboi]

The hurt is stopping on AT!!!

[bikerboy337]

looks like he's toast...

[T.J.]

back on the bike

[MattTuck]

So, the whole team should ride with a guy who is clearly cooked and can't stay with the lead group?

I'm just not sure it makes sense to burn all your remaining guys 50km from the finish, just to close down a 1:30 gap... especially if your goal is to win the stage. There won't be any garmins left at this rate when they reach the finish. That is what I was referring to -- strategic genius. I hope Slagter or Acevedo prove me wrong, as I have them on my fantasy team.

[ericssonboi]

I'll take that back... the hurt continues!

[bcroslin]

O. M. G. he got back on the bike. So much respect.

[gavingould]

i don't think this will last. (sadly)

he'll have a hard time making the time cut.

[ericssonboi]

Riding for Yellow to Red...

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I can't imagine he'll make the time cut. Lots of climbing to go. Is he in front or behind the gruppetto?

[MattTuck]

I'm frankly surprised he has a camera bike with him. The French broadcaster must consider him interesting for some reason to have this much camera time and be so far out of the GC competition.

[bcroslin]

No gruppetto yet. If he can hang in there he may make it.

[jpritchet74]

He is riding right in front of the broom wagon.

[harryblack]

Strange situation for sure; when have we seen a former Top 10 (if no higher) struggle this badly? Certainly there's some drama in AT's fortitude here, thus camera also but his getting off, then getting back on, alone, as lantern rouge (think that's correct) is...

???

Not sure why AT wouldn't bail and refocus on Vuelta.

Never been a big Millar fan, least of all 'reformed' Millar but he would he useful now.

[tele]

O. M. G. he got back on the bike. So much respect.

Damn right

[firerescuefin]

Hard to watch

Big Heart

Big Ups

Pulling for him. If he crosses the line today...meeting the cutoff or not. Huge respect.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

...

[harryblack]

Returning to the front... is this Sagan's day? Love this twisty descent with shadows...

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Eurosport guys are guestimating the time cut at 32 minutes - in which case AT could make it. Gutsy ride today.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I'd like to see Sagan take this. He's been incredibly consistent so far, but needs that stage win.

[harryblack]

and THAT's how you win a race!!

[ericssonboi]

Woww.. that was close..

[echelon_john]

Wonder how much Gallopin paid for that one? Looked uncontested to me.

[firerescuefin]

Wonder how much Gallopin paid for that one? Looked uncontested to me.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, I've never watched a guy leave a breakaway group and have the others not want to do the work to bring him back...essentially screwing themselves.

Well done Mr. Gallopin!!

[bobswire]

Wonder how much Gallopin paid for that one? Looked uncontested to me.

Sagan didn't want tow guys along, I don't blame him. All it take is a second of hesitation, as it was Sagan was pushing the break anyway at that point and Gallopin timed it perfectly.

[atrexler]

Glad to see Garmin randomly stomping on the gas in the middle of the stage with their guy OTB in order to....? What was their highest finisher today? It didn't even look like any of them made any attacks. ···.

Sometimes I really don't get JV.

[kramnnim]

Weren't they trying to get Slagter into a break with Roche, etc? (I wasn't paying close attention)

[atrexler]

Rereading the CN live feed, you're right, they were trying to get him into the move that fizzled out (for Slagter anyway) and went nowhere.

[bobswire]

TDF could be a cruel mistress but it looks like Talansky gets to continue to suffer. One of his more impressive finishes. :banana:

[firerescuefin]

TDF could be a cruel mistress but it looks like Talansky gets to continue to suffer. :banana:

Not that he cares, but his fan base just grew substantially. Hard to not like/appreciate the passion/heart he showed today.

HUGE PROPS!

[denapista]

The 2 crashes that I've seen Talansky in were gnarly.
I went down once going 40mph and it took me a month to recover.
This guy goes down twice in consecutive days and everyone is wondering why he isn't up front? seriously? That dude is in all kinds of pain.

[alessandro]

TDF could be a cruel mistress but it looks like Talansky gets to continue to suffer. One of his more impressive finishes. :banana:

Not that he cares, but his fan base just grew substantially. Hard to not like/appreciate the passion/heart he showed today.

HUGE PROPS!

Seriously.

https://vine.co/v/MQhrZWD9zuU

[harryblack]

Yeah and... to what end did Talansky continue? I respect the persistence but where is it going?

Garmin, as ever it seems, is pathetic; OK, they dump Talansky, which ** is ** defensible in this situation, then come up with what?

Their first rider today, Slagter, finished ** 14:27 ** down!! That's for the stage, not GC.

Vaughters 'genius' strikes again, just like it did when he let Talanksy's temper expose itself with Simon Gerrans instead of protecting his talented but hotheaded and in-the-wrong 'star.'

Had he missed the time cut today, I'd be all in favor of letting AT stay (though he should leave and prep for Vuelta) if they kicked the rest of the Garmin bums out-- Vaughters first-- on general principle.

Gallopin was a stud, Sagan et al waited in frustration and that's what happens.

[bobswire]

Not that he cares, but his fan base just grew substantially. Hard to not like/appreciate the passion/heart he showed today.

HUGE PROPS!

Yeah, he took a few hits to his fan share after accusing Gerrans of causing his tumble. At first glance I too thought it was Gerrans fault initially but afterwards through replay he most likely could have avoided Gerrans wheel and or at least maintained better control had he been paying attention to what was happening in front of him instead of to his right.My guess is Talansky feels the same, if anything I gained more respect towards Gerrans for offering an apology when none was really needed.
I hope those who faulted Talansky and labeled him a whiner have garnered a bit more respect towards him after today. They don't call him bulldog because of his bark.

HarryBlack*yeah and... to what end did Talansky continue? I respect the persistence but where is it going?
Just that,persistence and self respect besides paying huge dividends to future goals and knowing you can suffer through it. Having said that I agree, he could quit the Tour today head held high and set goals towards the Vuelta

[MattTuck]

I have Talansky on my fantasy team and was definitely cheering for him. That sprint crash was really avoidable, he had no place in that group. He sacrificed his entire tour de france going after a few seconds in the first week of the race.

I am not privy to the discussions within Garmin's team, but the responsibility for that crash has to fall on either Vaughters or Talansky. Vaughters should have been the voice of reason and kept to the playbook, "all you need to do is stay safe the first week." If he wasn't doing that, or if he was encouraging Talansky to risk it all for 3 seconds, shame on him.

If Talansky ignored orders to play it safe, then he is in some respect personally responsible for blowing up Garmin's GC hopes.

Yeah, Armstrong doped, but he also had an uncanny ability to keep it upright and avoid major crashes. Recognizing that lesson might help Talansky keep his inner bull dog in check on the stages where nothing is at stake so that it is ready when the real fighting starts.

[gavingould]

great respect for Talansky today, I thought there was no way he'd make it to the finish let alone within the time cut.
Bravo also to Gallopin, but no kudos to Sagan/Rogers/Kwiatowski for not chasing him down. Sagan rightly refused to do all the work of chasing when he could've sat up a few km earlier and probably taken the sprint for 2nd anyway.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Armstrong was a hothead in his youth, too. Multiple folks have described his early pro race strategy as "go to the front and hammer until I blow up or win." That persisted even into the UCI races, and was among the reasons he did better in 1-day events than stage races early on. His tactics (if not his personality) matured, however. I'm sure Talansky can get there, too. Vaughters needs to hammer some patience into the guy, though.

[katematt]

Not sure why Sagan again felt the need to jump from 5k out. He did a bunch of work in catching the first jump only to jumped again. If he didn't jump after the climb to catch Gallopin someone else would have done it.

If he stayed with the bunch they would have caught back on and he could have taken the bunch sprint. As it was he finished 10th.

Fun to watch, but if he's looking for wins he far too aggressive from too far out.

[firerescuefin]

Not sure why Sagan again felt the need to jump from 5k out. He did a bunch of work in catching the first jump only to jumped again. If he didn't jump after the climb to catch Gallopin someone else would have done it.

If he stayed with the bunch they would have caught back on and he could have taken the bunch sprint. As it was he finished 10th.

Fun to watch, but if he's looking for wins he far too aggressive from too far out.

It's called "pressing"

He's feeling the pressure of getting the result.

[Ray]

Yeah and... to what end did Talansky continue? I respect the persistence but where is it going?
Kind of true of life itself, right? Why persevere - we're all gonna wind up dead anyway. Sometimes you persevere because it's all that's left to do. He's not gonna finish anywhere high up in this year's Tour, but sometimes just finishing is a hell of an accomplishment. And maybe he'll help a team-mate to a stage win down the road. I don't think Garmin has big ambitions left in this Tour, but there's no reason he can't help out with the smaller ones. And how sweet would it be if he recovers and wins a stage before it's over?

-Ray

[paredown]

Kind of true of life itself, right? Why persevere - we're all gonna wind up dead anyway. Sometimes you persevere because it's all that's left to do. He's not gonna finish anywhere high up in this year's Tour, but sometimes just finishing is a hell of an accomplishment. And maybe he'll help a team-mate to a stage win down the road. I don't think Garmin has big ambitions left in this Tour, but there's no reason he can't help out with the smaller ones. And how sweet would it be if he recovers and wins a stage before it's over?

-Ray

Word

From the commentators, it sounds as if it were Talansky's decision to get back on the bike and ride home. And I agree that Talansky knew he was on his own if he went off the back--since he clearly started way way less than 100%--same back problems as he had on stage 10 and it did not get better on the rest day.

It was one of the more impressive demonstrations of mental toughness I have seen--Tour-winning toughness, IMO.

Now he just needs more experience and he will get there.

[firerescuefin]

Ray...this place is better with your input. :) I'm reminded of that the every so often you post:no:

[T.J.]

I'm not particularly a fan of vaughters but giving the circumstances i would have made the same call. there is pressure to get results. talansky is obviously not the play for that. if he dropped guys back and then talansky abandoned ( which he almost did) then what? or the guys drop back to shepperd talansky in and they don't make the time cut you have really screwed the pooch. got to remember it is a business

[Ray]

Ray...this place is better with your input. :) I'm reminded of that the every so often you post:no:

Really nice of you to say... I miss you guys too, but I'm not riding much anymore (rarely more than 5-10 miles at a time on my townie, usually doing errands) and not paying any attention to my road bikes or bike gear, so most of my attention is going to photography and other stuff. So I just don't think to stop by here too often. But I stop by and lurk every now and then. And around the Flanders / Roubaix week and at Tour time, my mind turns to cycling (even if my legs don't) and it seems natural to stop in and see what folks around here are thinking. And I can't keep my typewritten mouth shut, so I'll usually respond to one thing or another. :cool:

I'll probably be around a bit for the next week and a half or so and then not a lot for a while... Nice to see some of the same old faces though. And lot's of new ones as well...

-Ray

[harryblack]

Sure, Talanksy showed 'heart' today but it's time to show BRAINS also.

Is he going to try and recover and finish the sake of it (understandable if professionally pointless), stage hunt (possible but physically unlikely) or step back and go for a podium at the Vuelta, which I think is an ambitious but not unreasonable goal?

Also, to reiterate, praising AT today is unwarranted deflection from a PATHETIC-- embarrassing, really-- showing by the rest of Garmin.

99th place-- 14 minutes 27 seconds down-- for first rider and you're NOT nursing AT in?

[Ray]

Sure, Talanksy showed 'heart' today but it's time to show BRAINS also.

Is he going to try and recover and finish the sake of it (understandable if professionally pointless), stage hunt (possible but physically unlikely) or step back and go for a podium at the Vuelta, which I think is an ambitious but not unreasonable goal?

That's a good point, but if that's the call, it might have been psychologically better for him to gut it out today and abandon before the start tomorrow rather than just stop out on the road. If you're gonna win a Grand Tour some day, you gotta have a whole hell of a lot more character than most of us ever will. Today had to hurt like hell for him - I think it was a character move. I doubt seriously the difference between abandoning on the road today and at the start tomorrow would matter to him physically if he quits and goes for the Vuelta instead. So we'll see if that decision is still on the table. Nonetheless, I think the move he made today was an impressive and maybe even smart one.

That's him - I don't disagree regarding the team...

-Ray

[Wilkinson4]

Hard to watch… He looked to be in some real pain and frustrated, etc… From the link below:

“I’d never encourage a person to get off their bike,” Hunter, a former rider, said later. “I myself have been in a position where I’ve stopped Tour de Frances previously and a couple of hours later I regretted it. The only thing I said to Andrew is, ‘If you’re going to stop, make sure it’s the right decision.’ ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/sports/tour-de-france-2014-andrew-talansky-grits-and-avoids-elimination.html?_r=0

I would be very surprised if he started tomorrow. Might want to bag it and wait for the Vuelta.

It is a cruel hard sport when your team says your on your own...

mIKE

[pbarry]

Hard to watch… He looked to be in some real pain and frustrated, etc… From the link below:

“I’d never encourage a person to get off their bike,” Hunter, a former rider, said later. “I myself have been in a position where I’ve stopped Tour de Frances previously and a couple of hours later I regretted it. The only thing I said to Andrew is, ‘If you’re going to stop, make sure it’s the right decision.’ ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/sports/tour-de-france-2014-andrew-talansky-grits-and-avoids-elimination.html?_r=0

I would be very surprised if he started tomorrow. Might want to bag it and wait for the Vuelta.

It is a cruel hard sport when your team says your on your own...

mIKE

Excellent read. Thanks for the link.

If he wasn't already, AT became a man today. In my mind, I don't care about whose decision created the sprint debacle, but some Euro teams might be interested in picking him up after this display of beaucoup de courage.

He did more today for himself, (and on-the-fence fans), than any top-ten GC finish would have.

[CunegoFan]

And to think just a couple days ago people were ready to revoke Talansky's American citizenship for wimping out in the line of duty.

[kramnnim]

99th place-- 14 minutes 27 seconds down-- for first rider and you're NOT nursing AT in?

Maybe Slagter figured he would save his legs for another day once it was apparent his breakaway attempt wasn't going to work out.

[gianni]

Sure, Talanksy showed 'heart' today but it's time to show BRAINS also.

Is he going to try and recover and finish the sake of it (understandable if professionally pointless), stage hunt (possible but physically unlikely) or step back and go for a podium at the Vuelta, which I think is an ambitious but not unreasonable goal?

Also, to reiterate, praising AT today is unwarranted deflection from a PATHETIC-- embarrassing, really-- showing by the rest of Garmin.

99th place-- 14 minutes 27 seconds down-- for first rider and you're NOT nursing AT in?


+1, I understand that AT is on his own, but send back 1 or 2 riders to help him make the time cut. Instead, we see garmin drilling it on the front with 40 km left while their GC rider is trying to ride back into the race. Weak. AT might want to consider shopping teams.

[ericssonboi]

AT Abandons ToF.. Just Wowww..

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/07/news/talansky-forced-to-abandon-tour-de-france-after-crashes_336784

[bobswire]

AT Abandons ToF.. Just Wowww..

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/07/news/talansky-forced-to-abandon-tour-de-france-after-crashes_336784

Yes but at least he was able to do it on his terms rather than the indignation of riding the broom wagon.