Explain the advantages of direct mount brakes

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I'm seeing these things pop up with increasing frequency. Apart from allowing me to install them from the front - avoiding that massive PITA of turning my fork 90* - I'm unclear what the point is here.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm seeing these things pop up with increasing frequency. Apart from allowing me to install them from the front - avoiding that massive PITA of turning my fork 90* - I'm unclear what the point is here.

'Said' to be stiffer but that doesn't mean single point DP brakes are soft and noddley. Also relies on the fork/frame maker to put mounts in correct place and unless there are center mount holes too, limits brake selection.

Lessee when have I seen these before? Oh yeah, about 50-60 years ago.

https://www.google.com/search?q=picture+of+60s+gran+compe+brakes&client=safari&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YzjFU5LUOYbvoASg1ILgAw&ved=0CFoQ7Ak&biw=568&bih=320#facrc=_&imgrc=YNi7zP3Fvy2Y_M%253A%3BpvQqJiMNuhgUxM%3Bhttp% 253A%252F%252Fwww.blackbirdsf.org%252Fbrake_obscur a%252Fimages%252Froad%252Flefol.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%25 2F%252Fwww.bikeforums.net%252Fclassic-vintage%252F410363-era-beautiful-center-pulls-over.html%3B657%3B955

[Roadguy]

im also confused about the need for this type of brake with some of the new frames ...

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I'm starting to think bike companies ran out of BB and HS standards to invent and needed somewhere else to "innovate."

[Roadguy]

haha true indeed although with bb30a I think they are still finding new standards to come up with

[ultraman6970]

I have to agree with both of you :D

Honestly I'm just waiting for the 1st guy to have an oversize BB shell to snap in a half and have the crankset hit the pavement. Frames are ridiculously light, dunno where else manufacturers can make improvements.

Maybe internal gearing road pro peloton bikes?? Frames are so light that even with a super heavy hub you can get a 7 kg bike, besides you can get 14 gears with those Rohloff ones.

[vqdriver]

unless it's a reintroduction of coaster brakes, i'm uninterested.

[ultraman6970]

Coaster brakes hehehe :)

[ORMojo]

Frames are so light that even with a super heavy hub you can get a 7 kg bike, besides you can get 14 gears with those Rohloff ones.

Why stop there? Get 18 gears with Pinion!

[John H.]

If you think about it, they could make direct mount brakes in a design that would allow for more tire clearance.
That is the limiter for big tires and short reach brakes.
With mounts on the side of the fork you could make the fork taller and also change the shape of the caliper to provide more room above the tire.

[thirdgenbird]

If you think about it, they could make direct mount brakes in a design that would allow for more tire clearance.
That is the limiter for big tires and short reach brakes.
With mounts on the side of the fork you could make the fork taller and also change the shape of the caliper to provide more room above the tire.

Yeah, you could make the top part of the brake of cable for added clearance...;);)

Is there an honest functional clearance benefit? My Record short reach calipers will easily clear a 30mm tire with room left in the slot. If you need a tire bigger than that with or without fenders, you are probably in an area where the mud clearance of cantilevers or the all weather performance of discs make sense.

I'm not saying direct mount brakes don't have a benefit, but clearance doesn't seem to be one of them. What you are describing is actually pretty close to a Paul racer brake which can be had either in a "direct mount" or center mount version. Either one offers the same amount of clearance so ultimately stiffness is still your lead benefit. Stiffness (and weight) also rely on the frame builder properly building the frame. Remember brake boosters? Center mount caliper take the frame out of the equation.

[kramnnim]

Aren't they more aero?

[choke]

While not exactly what you're referring to, when I had my Strada Bianca built I wanted Paul Racer Ms and I wanted them set up with the post mount...I didn't want to have to worry about any clearance issues down the line. Paul does say that they have less flex if they're post mounted. I'm very happy with the way they turned out and I have tons of room. These tires measure right at 32mm....

[Jason E]

Myeh, they are here, so there is probably no putting them back in the box. I think it would be a nice detail call out on a custom Ti frame. Subtle. Works.

If Firefly does it at the next NAHBS, you heard it here first.

#trendsetter #Uzbekistan


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[ceolwulf]

I like the use of them on the Scott Solace; lets the seat stays be as flexible as needed for max plush.

http://www.81496.com/jouhou/2014/scott/tenjikai/solace20/solace20_back.jpg

[thirdgenbird]

Aren't they more aero?

That is sort of like saying carbon frames weigh less than aluminum. While it may be true, it isn't always. Direct mount offers the opportunity (maybe) for better aerodynamics but that doesn't mean every direct mount brake is more aero than a center mounted caliper.

I wouldn't guess this to have a measurable aero benefit
http://cyclingmagazine.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Emonda_SLR10_Brakes.jpg

This guy looks pretty aero but then again so is the center mount version:
http://www.tririg.com/images/store/650/000_Store_105.jpg

[kramnnim]

Meh, who cares about Trek.

Look!

http://cdn4.coresites.mpora.com/rcuk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2-IMG_0919-620x413.jpg

[thirdgenbird]

Aero but not direct mount.

Ive got little to no preference on direct mount. Can't say I'm a fan of proprietary integrated brakes.

[hockeybike]

is there really no place for a ferrule in the bike thirdgenbird posted? Sheesh...

[thirdgenbird]

is there really no place for a ferrule in the bike thirdgenbird posted? Sheesh...

In not sure if there isn't room or they just dint use one. It's odd either way.

Apparently this is an option as well.
http://www.tririg.com/images/store/650/000_Store_103.jpg

[Anarchist]

I have to agree with both of you :D

Honestly I'm just waiting for the 1st guy to have an oversize BB shell to snap in a half and have the crankset hit the pavement. Frames are ridiculously light, dunno where else manufacturers can make improvements.

Maybe internal gearing road pro peloton bikes?? Frames are so light that even with a super heavy hub you can get a 7 kg bike, besides you can get 14 gears with those Rohloff ones.

"Improvements".??????

These are not improvements. This is pushing bike frames with proprietary parts to lock you in to their network and only their network. No more buying other parts, you buy a brand X frame you can only use brand X brakes, crankset, pedals, seatpost, headset, etc.

It's about maximizing profit. That's it.

[ultraman6970]

Bet trek is saying that the system with mount brakes is 2000% better than double pivot and charging 800 bucks more just because of that.

Look and bmc I believe have brakes that you can't see... trek stuff is just that.. stuff...

[oldpotatoe]

I like the use of them on the Scott Solace; lets the seat stays be as flexible as needed for max plush.

http://www.81496.com/jouhou/2014/scott/tenjikai/solace20/solace20_back.jpg

That really has a spoke protector?...OMG...

[thirdgenbird]

Bet trek is saying that the system with mount brakes is 2000% better than double pivot and charging 800 bucks more just because of that.

Look and bmc I believe have brakes that you can't see... trek stuff is just that.. stuff...

At least the trek brakes give you options. Who all makes direct mount using that standard now? Shimano, tektro, Hayes(colnago), bontrager (wich apparently work very nice), and I hear ee direct mount brakes are on the horizon.

I'm not a trek fan at all, but I would take that brake selection over integrated brakes that usually leave something to be desired.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

At least the trek brakes give you options. Who all makes direct mount using that standard now? Shimano, tektro, Hayes(colnago), bontrager (wich apparently work very nice), and I hear ee direct mount brakes are on the horizon.

I'm not a trek fan at all, but I would take that brake selection over integrated brakes that usually leave something to be desired.

I'll grant that if there is a need for a new brake standard (and I'm not sure there is), I'd rather the direct mounts than the integrated ones. Unless you're talking about the custom made ones the pro teams are using, they just look flimsy and a PITA to set up.

But it all begs the question whether we need this stuff at all. From what I'm seeing, this is all about finding ways to fit brakes under the bottom bracket. I had a TT bike that mounted that way (old Felt DA), and it was an absolute nightmare to work on. I remember whacking a pothole once, hard enough that it put a bobble in my wheel, and the 0.3 seconds I might have saved having the brake hidden was lost when I had to dismount to open the brake caliper.

[thirdgenbird]

I'll grant that if there is a need for a new brake standard

I'm not convinced the is. I would much prefer current road calipers.

[John H.]

FWIW Firefly has already made a frame with direct mount brakes.
Not sure what they used for a fork.
But I guess with custom you can do anything, good or bad.

[Mark McM]

If you think about it, they could make direct mount brakes in a design that would allow for more tire clearance.

Actually, if you think about it, the exact opposite is true. Direct mount brakes require that the arm pivot positions (relative to the rim and each other) must be standardized. This must be so, because most road brakes today have some type of linkage interconnecting the caliper arm motion. Whatever standard width is chosen will be some type of compromise (a narrower width is better for aerodynamics and weight, a wider width is better for tire clearance and wide rims). So it is likely that the standard chosen will not be optimized for the biggest tires.

With non-direct mount brakes, different models of brakes can vary the pivot positions as needed for different requirements. Which is why, for example, center bolt mounted dual pivot brakes today come in variety of different lengths/widths for bikes with different amounts of tire clearance.