Timed Carb Intake on Long Rides

[Splash]

How many grams of carb should be ingested at what time interval over a 4 hour bike ride?

Likewise for water intake?

Is carb the only solid that should be ingested over this period?

What food type is best recommended for this task?



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[oldpotatoe]

How many grams of carb should be ingested at what time interval over a 4 hour bike ride?

Likewise for water intake?

Is carb the only solid that should be ingested over this period?

What food type is best recommended for this task?



Splash

Holy moly you need to just go ride.

[Splash]

I do ride OP.

Can others assist with this enquiry?

Thanks

Splash

[Jgrooms]

That a lot of ???, at the end very subjective. See the Horner thread...down 6 Cokes (only euro ones) & 7 snickers, peg it at 400 watts and you're pro tour.

[OtayBW]

holy moly you need to just go ride.
+1.

[wildboar]

.

[kgreene10]

I think what Old Potato meant was that everyone has different fuel needs while on the bike, depending on personal physiology, ride intensity, and weather conditions.

One way to figure out your personal needs is thus:
- Do group rides with riders whose pace is similar or slightly higher than yours. Drink when they drink.

- Take stock of how long you go before fatigue sets in and calibrate your calorie intake on the next ride to occur before that point.

- Try to finish rides at about the same body weight and without deathly fatigue and ravenous hunger.

- As Alan Lim says, your blood sugar dips about an hour after you eat, so try not to eat within an hour of a hard ride. If you eat 2.5+ hours before, you can include copious amounts of protein. Less than 2.5 hours out, focus on carbs.

- It takes a lot of trial and error. There is no one formula. I am skinny, fast metabolism, and I sweat a lot in Austin's heat. I eat and drink twice as much as my main training partner who is less skinny, slower metabolism, and does better in the heat.

[sitzmark]

You can do a lot of metabolic calculations, but what is it you want to accomplish? Race performance, fitness performance, or just out for a ride? Is it 4 hours non-stop or 4 hours moving time?

Intensity and temperature have a lot to do with it for me. Four hours is on the borderline of needing to give food/drink some focused thought. Rode ~4 hours (70 miles) in 80*+ heat yesterday at strong pace (18.5) but not killer. 10 min stop around 50 miles. Intake: 1 water bottle: G-ade 20oz and purchased lemonade 20oz at stop. Package of Stinger chews. That's more liquid than normal for me on a recreational/fitness ride, but about normal for the temp. Over 75 miles and pushing harder, I usually need to take on calories starting around 50 to keep from bonking in the 80-90 range. If not a supported ride, I sometimes suck on a highly concentrated Hammer Perpetuem paste every 20 mins or so. I fill two Hammer flasks almost full of powder and add enough water to make a heavy paste. (much more concentrated than directions). When pushing harder, I've been know to inhale more than my fair share of PBJ corners. Just depends.

The past couple of years for charity centuries and club rides around 100 miles or less, I don't worry too much about it. Couple of bottles of G-ade, couple bags of chews, maybe a stinger gel and out the door. If it doesn't go well, can always stop for restock /snack. Like O.P. says ... outside of serious competition it's a whole lot of worrying about nothing (for me). Just ride.

If I was an elite athlete, or had serious competitive aspirations, then I'd give it more thought.

[Ralph]

If I were doing a 4 hour ride, maybe 60-70 miles or so, in this heat, I would have two large water bottles filled with half strength Gator Aid, and a pocket full of fig bars. Though somewhat tired, I would end as strong as I left, if anyone wanted to sprint the last couple miles. At a convenience store stop maybe half way, I would probably refil a bottle with water, maybe drink a coke, and look for something salty to eat....depending on how much I'm sweating (probably a lot here in Florida). My friends who only drink water and maybe some energy food, would probably be pooped at end. BTW.....I only eat foods and drink liquids with sugar added when I'm riding, and never after a ride. When riding hard, you can usually ingest sugar without raising blood sugar levels and getting insulin response. Tests show riders who ride on sugar drinks ride measurably faster than riders who ride on water only. I never want to end a ride hungry.

BTW....I'm 73 and don't look at rides as a way to lose weight. I look at eating and drinking as just fueling. And wish to feel good after a ride. Because I'm probably riding some next day after also.

[Splash]

4 hours non-stop riding.

I am not wanting to take excessive food with me all the time. Often, I do not eat everything I bring.

I am also wanting to optimise my blood sugars during the ride so that I do not decrease my power output and exhaust/deplete other body reserves because not eating at the right frequency, etc..

Yes, call me mad and obsessive - but I am keen and want to learn more...


Thanks guys..

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[Ralph]

Dr Mirkin on the subject. http://drmirkin.com/public/ezine082910.html

Dr Gabe Mirkin is one of my favorite sports Docs. Read his other stuff also on healthy eating and exercise.

[christian]

Carb syncing is a pain. Ride a thumper!

[CunegoFan]

300 calories per hour. More if your stomach can handle it. Get about 100 in liquid form. For the rest use gels or whatever else you can keep down.

[Splash]

Thanks Guys.

My stomach does not like alot of food during the ride - just from past experience - so, will need to see how many grams of whatever makes up 300 calories.

What favorite carb food (excluding gels) do you guys use?


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[Shortsocks]

Whatever you do don't eat spicy ass Thai food before a ride!

[unterhausen]

on a 4 hour ride, I could get by on a bottle of perpetuum (or homemade substitute) at max concentration.

[charliedid]

Bring a turkey sandwich with mustard and a bag of chips

[CunegoFan]

For three to four hours I mix one bottle of sports drink at double or triple concentration. After taking a swig, I chase it with water. For just riding around, I do not take much care in exact mixtures or timing. Because of glycogen reserves, you get half the time for "free."

For really long stuff that is important (MTB, ultrarunning, tri, etc.), I will try to hit 300 calories per hour. The exact strategy depends on what type of support is available on course. The easiest method without much support is to mix a super concentrated bottle that will last several hours. Bulk maltodextrin is the cheapest. Add electrolytes and flavoring. For flavoring, a bit of regular sports drink powder works.

If you want to get all high techy then Infinit works well and can be custom made with very mild flavoring.

It mostly comes down to what your stomach can handle. Many people need some sort of solid food after a while. I seem to have a cast iron stomach and have done 30+ hour running races on liquids and gels.

[stephenmarklay]

As above. If you are on a ride that is going to be hard then eating upwards of the 300 cal per hour is what I would do to. That will get me through a fast century.

Today I rode 60 miles with some dirt. I tend to take extra water just in case. Its normal for me to have two bottles on the bike and one on in my jersey.

For food today I brought a banana and one bottle had 16oz of coconut water and some added salt. So that was about 250-300 kcal for 3 hours+ For training that is fine. I won't bonk with that much.

[shovelhd]

For training I eat nothing until the end of the second hour, then one 100 calorie gel. One gel every hour afterwards. On long base rides, 5-6 hours, I will stop for a Snickers and Coke (seriously).

For races I eat two hours before. If I'm doing back to back races I eat a gel in the middle of the second race.

[moose8]

Randomly I just listened in on a conversation between friends (in that I had nothing to offer on the subject) and they seemed to be saying it's really personal and the way to find out is to experiment. I think they said a general guideline was 40-60 grams per hour depending on your weight in part, though again one consumes far fewer despite the general guidelines and has done RAAM and the other has worked with pro cyclists, and were discussing in fact that there is a very wide range of what works. But again, they were talking about people who ride at pretty elite levels but I imagine it stands true for whoever.

[christian]

For four hours, I eat a banana or some fig newtons and drink a bottle of water and a bottle of secret mix.

[93legendti]

Everyone has to find what works for him/her.

I remember a guy on a Breaking Away Tour of the Alps. He rode with 1 or 2 long baguettes in his jersey pocket - he would break off bits and eat as he rode and not stop for lunch. He was a beast on the bike.

[John H.]

This.
40-60 is a good rule.
60 grams would be around 280-300 calories depending on specific foods.
This also depends on rider weight. These amounts are for a medium sized rider.
You also mentioned trying to ride 4 hours non-stop.
You need way more than 2 bottles for 4 hours.
Likely more like 4-6. Maybe more than that if hot.
Dehydration can produce symptoms similar to low blood sugar- power drops off.
I am not trying to start a debate with those who are in the low carb camp.
Just sharing what has been tried and true for me.
I also know that you can ride on less food than that. But for me, less food= a slower and lower power ride and increased recovery time.

Randomly I just listened in on a conversation between friends (in that I had nothing to offer on the subject) and they seemed to be saying it's really personal and the way to find out is to experiment. I think they said a general guideline was 40-60 grams per hour depending on your weight in part, though again one consumes far fewer despite the general guidelines and has done RAAM and the other has worked with pro cyclists, and were discussing in fact that there is a very wide range of what works. But again, they were talking about people who ride at pretty elite levels but I imagine it stands true for whoever.

[firerescuefin]

How much of this ride is aerobic vs hard taxing efforts (intermittent and/or sustained). The needs between the two types of rides are much different, especially for those of us who may be fit, but are not able to develop aerobic power as efficiently as someone with a lot of base training.

[unterhausen]

BITD, 4-5 hours was a 2 banana ride. More recently, I haven't been training enough to get away with that, and I sometimes wonder if I was really getting away with that back then.

I do have to say that if I'm in decent shape and I've warmed up for 150-200 miles, I can easily ride 50 miles without eating. I call that the "velociraptor mode" -- that's when the body gives up trying to ask for food and figures there has to be a velociraptor chasing me, or else I would have stopped. I'm sure it's not the fastest way to ride a bike, but sometimes it's nice not to have to worry about stuffing my face for a while.

[John H.]

You would likely feed hard rides with even more calories.
More or less as much as your body can handle. But individuals are different in terms of what that amount is.
You have enough body fat to ride really far, but once glycogen is depleted you are done.

[stephenmarklay]

BITD, 4-5 hours was a 2 banana ride. More recently, I haven't been training enough to get away with that, and I sometimes wonder if I was really getting away with that back then.

I do have to say that if I'm in decent shape and I've warmed up for 150-200 miles, I can easily ride 50 miles without eating. I call that the "velociraptor mode" -- that's when the body gives up trying to ask for food and figures there has to be a velociraptor chasing me, or else I would have stopped. I'm sure it's not the fastest way to ride a bike, but sometimes it's nice not to have to worry about stuffing my face for a while.

That's funny. I think the Velociraptor mode is just the ability to burn fat as fuel. The more riding (the better shape you get) the more glycogen sparing you become.

Although, burning matches dips into the reserves no matter your condition.

[Splash]

some great responses!

Much appreciated...and lots to read and ride...


Splash