Why buy a custom bike and not ride it?

[Buzz Killington]

I've barely ever posted here, but feel the need to rant about this. Why do I see so many custom bikes/frames for sale that look like they've never been ridden? I just saw a link to a Sachs for sale with less than 200 miles, that he waited "years" for. You waited years for something you're not going to use? These frames were built by artisans who toiled over them, and you're not going to enjoy it? I would think framebuilders want their bikes to be ridden and enjoyed. (Or maybe they only care if the check clears...)

If you have so much disposable income, maybe donate some "regular" bikes for those in need. Don't just stick them on a wall or in the corner of your room under a blanket. Use/feel/enjoy them. Do you go to a museum and just visit the Gift Shop?

Anyway, got that off my chest. Ride that thing. Scratch it, ding it, it's a bike for goodness sake.

[Tony Edwards]

I've barely ever posted here, but feel the need to rant about this. Why do I see so many custom bikes/frames for sale that look like they've never been ridden? I just saw a link to a Sachs for sale with less than 200 miles, that he waited "years" for. You waited years for something you're not going to use? These frames were built by artisans who toiled over them, and you're not going to enjoy it? I would think framebuilders want their bikes to be ridden and enjoyed. (Or maybe they only care if the check clears...)

If you have so much disposable income, maybe donate some "regular" bikes for those in need. Don't just stick them on a wall or in the corner of your room under a blanket. Use/feel/enjoy them. Do you go to a museum and just visit the Gift Shop?

Anyway, got that off my chest. Ride that thing. Scratch it, ding it, it's a bike for goodness sake.

I certainly agree. That being said, the fact that someone is well-heeled enough to buy something like a Sachs means, more or less by definition, that the buyer has other bikes (probably several), and is likely too busy working to ride as much as he'd like.

[fiamme red]

Why do I see so many custom bikes/frames for sale that look like they've never been ridden? I just saw a link to a Sachs for sale with less than 200 miles, that he waited "years" for. You waited years for something you're not going to use? These frames were built by artisans who toiled over them, and you're not going to enjoy it? I would think framebuilders want their bikes to be ridden and enjoyed. (Or maybe they only care if the check clears...)I see nothing wrong with ordering a frame and hanging it up on the wall to admire. I think e-RICHIE himself did that with the Nagasawa that he ordered (though he may have built it up by now).

[thirdgenbird]

Museum might be a bad analogy. A museum is a room full of things that are looked at but not used.

All jokes aside, my Tommasini doesn't see near as many miles as my other bikes, but it would be the last I sold.

It's not my preference to see bikes that are never ridden, but who am I to tell people what they should do with their stuff. I would rather have a $4000 frame hanging on my wall that a $4000 painting.

[eddief]

the seller probably got tired of riding a bike with such a common-looking paint job :).

[beeatnik]

Collectors are collectors.

As for the rest, many of those cats probably never learn that they're just bikes. A new watch can be nicer than the last, but after a few seconds your wrist doesn't know the difference.

[fiamme red]

Richard Sachs has a long wait list -- at least six years, I think? A lot can change in that time (financial situation, health, amount of leisure time, location, etc.).

[crownjewelwl]

··· do you you care?

[CaliFly]

Different strokes. Some people buy a Rolex that never gets wrist time. Others buy a Leica that will never have its shutter button pressed. Then there are those who will buy a Loveless that will never make a single cut.

For me, buying a Picasso just to hang on a wall for viewing is one thing. It is another thing entirely to purchase a TOOL that never gets USED.

RIDE your bike, CHECK the time, SHOOT a few landscapes, SKIN a bear. DO or DO NOT...there is no TRY.





whoops....did I get carried away? :p

[John H.]

I would say any custom builder who has made a career of it has removed himself from the emotions of what happens after he delivers a frame.
Why do people sell a barely used custom?
Things change. Tastes, desires, finances, riding position, intended uses- who cares?
Some people like to try new and different things. Maybe they have the finances to do so. Maybe they are just an enthusiast that will flip things to get new things.
For some riding is a hobby. For others, procuring all the parts and getting a bike together might be the hobby in itself. They are not always one in the same.
The upside is that it makes for some pretty good deals on cool stuff in the used market.

[fuzzalow]

Q: Why buy a custom bike and not ride it?
A: Because they can.

I see it as relative to the person owning it and the outlook as in all things in moderation.

A person with the discipline (same as patience) and the means to buy multi-year wait-listed bikes certainly knows what he has because people like that ain't dumb. But neither do they jump through hoops or run around like their hair is on fire simply because they now possess a multi-year wait-listed bike. It is only a possession, however prized and rare it may be as see through the eyes of others. There is a lot to be said for the dignity of quiet satisfaction.

Nice things are nice to own. To be enjoyed as each owner sees fit.

[jr59]

Could be the RS bike did not live up to all the hype.

I know I bought 2 bikes from a forum member here. Both my size, both built for him. The Ellis is my fav bike to ride. It rides and handles better than the 3-4 customs I HAD MADE FOR ME. While the other bike I bought from him was a RS. While pretty to look at, it is my true LEAST fav bike to ride. I almost never ride it because, To me anyway,it's a pig! Please keep in mind I bought my fav bike from the same person, at the same time. I take the RS down, lube the chain, and ride it just hopping that something has magically changed. NOPE, still no fun to ride. I'vr tried different wheels, groups, saddles, stems, bars, and everything under the sun. Even swapped the whole bike build out with my fav bike and the Ellis still wains hands down.

Richard makes good bikes, but mine sure didn't live up to all the hype.

OH well, it looks good on the wall.

[John H.]

A lugged steel bike is a lugged steel bike.
It could fit better, it could be constructed more nicely, it could have some lighter and more modern tubing but at the end of the day it is not so different from what you could buy in the mid-90's.
Might be your jam- might not.
Is that the white Ellis with burgundy panels? I rode that bike last time I was in Jax- nice bike!

Could be the RS bike did not live up to all the hype.

I know I bought 2 bikes from a forum member here. Both my size, both built for him. The Ellis is my fav bike to ride. It rides and handles better than the 3-4 customs I HAD MADE FOR ME. While the other bike I bought from him was a RS. While pretty to look at, it is my true LEAST fav bike to ride. I almost never ride it because, To me anyway,it's a pig! Please keep in mind I bought my fav bike from the same person, at the same time. I take the RS down, lube the chain, and ride it just hopping that something has magically changed. NOPE, still no fun to ride. I'vr tried different wheels, groups, saddles, stems, bars, and everything under the sun. Even swapped the whole bike build out with my fav bike and the Ellis still wains hands down.

Richard makes good bikes, but mine sure didn't live up to all the hype.

OH well, it looks good on the wall.

[Dead Man]

Imagine a poor kid from some impoverished region of Africa, wondering why you buy food and don't eat it (as I recall, something like 40% of the food America produces goes to the landfill).

It's something like that. If your income is such that you can buy food you don't eat, it's just not a big thing to you to throw it away. If your income is such that you can order a $3,500 frame and let it collect dust, it's just not something you're going to spend a lot of time thinking about.

So to answer your question.... these guys make a lot more money than you. :)

[enr1co]

Different strokes. Some people buy a Rolex that never gets wrist time. Others buy a Leica that will never have its shutter button pressed. Then there are those who will buy a Loveless that will never make a single cut.

For me, buying a Picasso just to hang on a wall for viewing is one thing. It is another thing entirely to purchase a TOOL that never gets USED.

RIDE your bike, CHECK the time, SHOOT a few landscapes, SKIN a bear. DO or DO NOT...there is no TRY.


whoops....did I get carried away? :p

LOL! Reminds me of guitar collectors who will buy a NEW "relic" Custom Shop guitar, e.g. a Fender "relic" 50's Stratocaster for $3K to keep in the case or just display.

Ordered and manufactured as new but with intentional/ faux player wear, finish, dings, dents, rust, cigarette burns as if its gone through 10 world tours and spent years in smoke filled bars.

It would be amusing if any bike mfgs started selling new "relic" bikes of iconic riders, races... or maybe this has already been attempted?

http://www.themusiczoo.com/images/11-06-11/Fender_Custom_Ultimate_Relic_57_Stratocaster_White _Blonde_R62040_1.jpg

[fuzzalow]

Richard makes good bikes, but mine sure didn't live up to all the hype.

During the height of cult of personality and rampant fan-boi-ism that was fanned about this builder a few years ago, both here and ATH, there was NOTHING on earth that could possibly meet that hype. It was inevitable following that induced hysteria that there was no place to go but down. Most unfortunate as the bikes are reputedly good but they are still ultimately, just bikes.

[jr59]

A lugged steel bike is a lugged steel bike.
It could fit better, it could be constructed more nicely, it could have some lighter and more modern tubing but at the end of the day it is not so different from what you could buy in the mid-90's.
Might be your jam- might not.
Is that the white Ellis with burgundy panels? I rode that bike last time I was in Jax- nice bike!


Nope, mine is Light blue and white white the burgundy ellis letters.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=148010&page=3

Most all of my current lugged bikes ride better than the 90s bikes I have had. The one exception would be my ELOS bianchi. Can't tell you why, but IMO, a lugged bike is not a lugged bike. Of course YMMV

[John H.]

I strongly disagree.
You can't make that judgement about an individual that you know nothing about.
Also, it is better to resell something soon after purchase than let it sit around for a few years- losing value every day.
Either way lose will likely lose a bunch of $, but bikes are a poor investment anyhow.

Imagine a poor kid from some impoverished region of Africa, wondering why you buy food and don't eat it (as I recall, something like 40% of the food America produces goes to the landfill).

It's something like that. If your income is such that you can buy food you don't eat, it's just not a big thing to you to throw it away. If your income is such that you can order a $3,500 frame and let it collect dust, it's just not something you're going to spend a lot of time thinking about.

So to answer your question.... these guys make a lot more money than you. :)

[Dead Man]

I strongly disagree.
You can't make that judgement about an individual that you know nothing about.
Also, it is better to resell something soon after purchase than let it sit around for a few years- losing value every day.
Either way lose will likely lose a bunch of $, but bikes are a poor investment anyhow.

You must be assuming some condemnation I didn't give. I didn't say anything about investment, either.... ?

[CaliFly]

So to answer your question.... these guys make a lot more money than you. :)

I understand the "rich enough to afford stuff I'll never use" angle, but as me pappy used to say, "The only thing you take with you when you die is the smile you get from doing a little good in this craptown of a world."

[John H.]

I know- I added that part.
Bikes are a poor investment.

You must be assuming some condemnation I didn't give. I didn't say anything about investment, either.... ?

[Joachim]

If you have so much disposable income, maybe donate some "regular" bikes for those in need.

Ok, so where does this donation of "regular" Paceline bikes go to? The last time I was in Kenya, a Trek Madone or Specialized Tarmac wouldn't do so well. While I am all for caring for thy neighbor, I just don't get this "if you are able to buy X, don't use X, you should give away X". I don't tell the overweight triathlete with $3000 wheels, which rides at 15mph, that he should give those away since he is too slow for aero wheels. All sounds like sour grapes to me.

[malcolm]

I've barely ever posted here, but feel the need to rant about this. Why do I see so many custom bikes/frames for sale that look like they've never been ridden? I just saw a link to a Sachs for sale with less than 200 miles, that he waited "years" for. You waited years for something you're not going to use? These frames were built by artisans who toiled over them, and you're not going to enjoy it? I would think framebuilders want their bikes to be ridden and enjoyed. (Or maybe they only care if the check clears...)

If you have so much disposable income, maybe donate some "regular" bikes for those in need. Don't just stick them on a wall or in the corner of your room under a blanket. Use/feel/enjoy them. Do you go to a museum and just visit the Gift Shop?

Anyway, got that off my chest. Ride that thing. Scratch it, ding it, it's a bike for goodness sake.

I've got a custom Parlee that probably has 200 miles or so on it. Bike just never spoke to me and I have other choices. I've not sold it because I've just not stripped it down to sell. I've got a coupled Zanc frame that's never been built up. I got a pair of them for a trip, wife and I, and they didn't arrive until after the trip (no fault of zanc's) and I just never got around to building them up. Sold one here and still have the other.
Why does it bother you what people do with their stuff/resources? I'm sure you recycle every aspect of your life, waste nothing and drive a wind driven car.

[Peter P.]

For a lot of cyclists, the custom bicycle thing is their version of sex.

The ordering, the wait, the building; it's all foreplay.

Once owned, the thrill is gone.

The only way to get that feeling again is to buy another custom frame.

[charliedid]

^ This

And, some people are collectors.

No harm.

On the other hand, my bikes always look a little beat in just a couple months.

Oh well...just bikes.

[malcolm]

For a lot of cyclists, the custom bicycle thing is their version of sex.

The ordering, the wait, the building; it's all foreplay.

Once owned, the thrill is gone.

The only way to get that feeling again is to buy another custom frame.

Maybe a little but not so much at least for me. I've owned numerous bikes some custom and some not. I'm not really a collector. I ride most of them or they eventually get sold. Several have been around a long time and won't be going anywhere. Two Kirks, one made for me and one not and a Ti spectrum. Those three get all my road miles, and that is less and less every year since I started riding mtn. My mtn bike is a 26 Turner flux, it's a keeper and I have a 650b Kish on the way, we'll see. I've done it enough that there isn't a whole lot of excitement or anticipation. It'll get here and I'll either like it or not, that simple. For the past few years I don't buy as many as I used to. I think after switching to primarily mtn I see them more as a means to an end. I just love the simplicity of a well made bike.

[jr59]

For a lot of cyclists, the custom bicycle thing is their version of sex.

The ordering, the wait, the building; it's all foreplay.

Once owned, the thrill is gone.

The only way to get that feeling again is to buy another custom frame.

maybe so, but I have been known to get a new frame/fork and not even unpack it for months

[witcombusa]

I for one am all for this practice. It allows me to pick up great frames (hopefully ridden little and stored carefully!) for a affordable price with no waiting lists. There will always be those who want the next thing... I can wait.

Their ($$) loss is my savings. :banana:

[mike p]

When my kids were young I really couldn't afford bikes. I had ONE bike for about a ten year period. Raced it, trained on it, bad weather, good weather, everything! Fast forward, kids grown and gone. I had a list of bikes I'd always wanted to try. Bought most of them used. Some that I liked I've hung on to, others that I thought I'd like and didn't were sold. Maybe if money were no concern I'd have bought them new and sold the ones I didn't like at a big loss.
Whatever, "chef don't judge".

Mike

[Ahneida Ride]

That fancy bike on the wall was probably a nice profit for some frame builder
who needs food on the table and a roof over his head.

and kept that builder building so that the rest of us could potentially
purchase a bike from the guy.

[e-RICHIE]

Here's a macro shot from a New Yorker Magazine cover from 1929. The artist is Haupt. It's one of over 120 issues the publication has printed going back to 1927, all of which contain bicycles in the cover art. I collect these, but only new and copies that have never been in circulation. At least 70 of these predate the Watergate era, so think about that when you're considering ephemera that's new, but unused. I've been collecting these since the mid 1970s. I have every issue (sic) and multiples of most too. The Haupt issue was among the hardest to locate in perfect condition, but I did some locate it some 10 years ago.

There are so many beautiful covers over the years, I'd be hard-pressed to pick a favorite. The Hiroshima issue from 1946 (look it up, huh...) has to be near the top; it's the only time in the magazine's history when the entire contents were devoted to a single topic. In this case, it was Hersey's story about the bomb. All of these magazines are kept out of sunlight, and in archival bags. All are perfect.

I know these magazines are not bicycles, and I'm not making comparisons across the objects folks like to surround themselves with. But I've never even opened most of these New Yorker Magazines that I have. I mean, why would I do that? Why would I even care about what's inside atmo?!

So the cat with the Newvex lugged RS frame listed it for sale. And some of you find that remarkable, or want a back story so that his actions make sense to you. Maybe he's a ski industry rep whose knees no longer work. Or maybe his second wife is about to bleed him dry. I've had clients here who have emptied accounts before the courts could have a chance to do the same. People about to be single do funny things, especially when lawyers are involved or when their lives take a downward turn. Such saints, some are. Maybe he's simply letting go and downsizing his lot on life. There was a thread about doing just that several weeks ago. Perhaps he read it and is following a lead.

Enjoy the pixels -

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10542916_10203275947612428_7802362722102401647_n.j pg

[54ny77]

is this thread (the original post) a question or an accusation?

some buy custom bikes for reasons that make sense only to those who are doing the buying.

and that's just fine.

sure beats a bad crack habit or hoarding french cars from the 1980's.

[beeatnik]

Mr Sachs, would one acquire a Hattori Hanzo sword (through whichever means) only to sell the sword at the swap meet, just because one can?

I think the OP believes that some tools are meant to kill or at least to consider the act.

[Peter P.]

maybe so, but I have been known to get a new frame/fork and not even unpack it for months

Sitting on it, unpacked, is part of the foreplay. That's not a joke.

[e-RICHIE]

Mr Sachs, would one acquire a Hattori Hanzo sword (through whichever means) only to sell the sword at the swap meet, just because one can?

I think the OP believes that some tools are meant to kill or at least to consider the act.

I can only compare apples to apples atmo.
I've made a bicycle purchase or three simply to own what was delivered.
There's no hidden meaning here.
These things made me happy.
I didn't miss the money.
And I didn't ride the bicycles either.

[AngryScientist]

Here's a macro shot from a New Yorker Magazine cover from 1929...

this is probably my favorite RS post ever.

i agree with many of the above posts. beyond the basic necessities of life, food, shelter, etc, people buy and sell items for many different reasons. too much to consider to make sense of every transaction. what people do with their money is entirely up to them IMO.

besides, the used frame market is what it is partially because of people's decisions, and that's just fine with me.

[fuzzalow]

Hey Buzz (OP), where are ya? Lookin' for insight as to how I should spend my money! C'mon don't leave me hangin'. :)

Just joshing but at some level it comes across as ludicrous to kvetch about a singular instance of multi-year wait-listed bike that doesn't meet some arbitrary view of utility. Tell me that the owner glommed all the multi-year wait-listed slots for the same bike and didn't ride the bike and then maybe we get a legitimate gripe. And then again, it is a free country, the spending of money has been upheld by SCOTUS as the safeguarded Constitutional equivalent to free speech and maybe some people just have atrocious taste in spending money. So what?

During too-big-to-fail of 2008, John Thain, then CEO of Merrill Lynch, was roundly criticized for his penchant for buying BMW 750iLs. At the time he went begging for BofA to buyout MER and taking taxpayer bailout money, he had just purchased his eighth 750iL. I like Bimmers too but there ain't a whole lotta difference between same model year 750iLs. Even Thain's super rich peers thought that was gauche - what a hoot - comments on materialism from that crowd.

In this forum there isn't anything remotely like that evidenced, Rapha threads included. If you've earned it, enjoy what you've got in any way you like it. Like the Ben Affleck line from the film "Boiler Room": "Anybody who tells you money is the root of all evil doesn't f***ing have any!".

[beeatnik]

this is probably my favorite rs post ever.



+1

[gomango]

maybe so, but I have been known to get a new frame/fork and not even unpack it for months

You get around to them though.

...and they are always beauties!

I often follow the same plan. Right now is the height of the riding season in Minnesota, so I have little energy for building framesets until October.

They all get their time.

[cmg]

When my kids were young I really couldn't afford bikes. I had ONE bike for about a ten year period. Raced it, trained on it, bad weather, good weather, everything! Fast forward, kids grown and gone. I had a list of bikes I'd always wanted to try. Bought most of them used. Some that I liked I've hung on to, others that I thought I'd like and didn't were sold. Maybe if money were no concern I'd have bought them new and sold the ones I didn't like at a big loss.
Whatever, "chef don't judge".

Mike

yep, "I really couldn't afford bikes." now that i can i do, some get ridden more than others, so what? It's the collection of wheels that's becoming overwhelming.

[weisan]

Buzz-pal, you are brave or foolhardy, depending on who you ask.

You hit on a raw nerve.

There's no right or wrong answer. It can be anything.

Ultimately it's somebody else's prerogative, we can't call that into question.

But just for fun, it's an interesting observation. Again, not all do it for the same reasons.

And to be completely truthful, one has to admit a question like this never came out of a clean slate, but carries some preconceived notions right out the gate.

[unterhausen]

I find it sad when a bike isn't ridden, but the practice of buying a bike and not riding it keeps the bike industry going. I was helping a colleague move something heavy, it turned out he had a pristine, unridden Colnago from the '70s in his basement. I was a little surprised that he had such a thing, but I'm sure there are many more like it out there waiting for bulk trash day (joking, I think).

Better to get rid of something that isn't going to be used than to have it sit around weighing on you. The riding of bikes is what is special, the actual bike is just a tool. To me, a good bike disappears from under you, it's like it isn't there. If it doesn't fit or isn't responsive, it will continually remind you of its presence.

[jimoots]

Who cares what other people do with their money (and live their lives). It's their money (and life) after all.

[fogrider]

Mike, I'm with you! My kids are not fully grown yet, but I've been able to pick up some nice frames used for a good/great price. should I ask why? as others have said, I've gotten reasons that are similar, it didn't speak to me, the frame was too big, things change, something new comes along...

And with custom, you pretty much buy it site unseen. you hear about what a great builder his guy is, and how great his frame rides, but bikes and how they ride are so subjective. ride what you like!

When my kids were young I really couldn't afford bikes. I had ONE bike for about a ten year period. Raced it, trained on it, bad weather, good weather, everything! Fast forward, kids grown and gone. I had a list of bikes I'd always wanted to try. Bought most of them used. Some that I liked I've hung on to, others that I thought I'd like and didn't were sold. Maybe if money were no concern I'd have bought them new and sold the ones I didn't like at a big loss.
Whatever, "chef don't judge".

Mike

[cat6]

lots of "cyclists" buy "tools" like power meters to "train" for cat4 races. is that a waste of money? yeah.

lot's of "cyclists" upgrade plastic bikes season to season to keep up with what the industry tells them is necessary to keep up with the other weekend warriors. is that a waste of money? yeah.

lot's of couples head to performance bike every weekend to buy a couple of $800 bikes so they can ride on that new bike lane that was just painted on their street. they'll ride those bikes 2-3 times a year, sell them on craigslist when they move and do the whole thing over in another few years. is that a waste of money? yeah, probably.

there's a lot of big bucks being pissed away on bikes...i'm just glad some of it is going towards real bikes, like the aforementioned red and white one.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I have bought and sold several custom bikes in 2012 that only had a few hundred miles on them. I wish I hadn't, but my economic situation had changed dramatically that I simply had to sell them to make economic ends meet.

Since having to unload those custom bikes I have ridden the hell out of an off-the-shelf carbon fiber bike that is my war horse. I have no real affinity to that bike, as I didn't get to choose paint or to have geometry custom-made for me. I am happy with this bike, however, as I see it as a tool and use it as such.

My number has come up on a very long waiting list and, after much thought and deliberation, I've decided to jump back in to the custom bike world. It is a stretch for me financially, but I have this image of me enjoying nice, long, leisurely rides into my old age and I see this bike as the one I'm on (instead of the carbon fiber aero bike with deep-dish wheels I currently ride). Who knows, maybe it becomes a seldomly used coffee shop ride bike that I only use once or twice a year. Even if I used it only a few times a year, I will still be glad to have this bike in my garage.

And though I can probably make better use of the money than spending it on a custom bike, it is a bucket list sort of thing and a reward to me for even making it this far.

However, I do not see how it is any of the OP's business how I choose to spend my money on my hobby and the level of satisfaction my custom bike purchase brings me. Who is he to judge me? [And, by the way, I've received numerous awards and recognitions for my volunteer work throughout my career, so, to address the contribution to society angle, I feel very comfortable with that side of the ledger in my life.]

There is something about this post that struck a strong chord with me. I can't quite articulate how wrong I think it is, and I don't know why the OP posted it. But all I know is I don't like it.

[pbarry]

Here's a macro shot from a New Yorker Magazine cover from 1929. The artist is Haupt. It's one of over 120 issues the publication has printed going back to 1927, all of which contain bicycles in the cover art. I collect these, but only new and copies that have never been in circulation. At least 70 of these predate the Watergate era, so think about that when you're considering ephemera that's new, but unused. I've been collecting these since the mid 1970s. I have every issue (sic) and multiples of most too. The Haupt issue was among the hardest to locate in perfect condition, but I did some locate it some 10 years ago.

There are so many beautiful covers over the years, I'd be hard-pressed to pick a favorite. The Hiroshima issue from 1946 (look it up, huh...) has to be near the top; it's the only time in the magazine's history when the entire contents were devoted to a single topic. In this case, it was Hersey's story about the bomb. All of these magazines are kept out of sunlight, and in archival bags. All are perfect.

I know these magazines are not bicycles, and I'm not making comparisons across the objects folks like to surround themselves with. But I've never even opened most of these New Yorker Magazines that I have. I mean, why would I do that? Why would I even care about what's inside atmo?!

So the cat with the Newvex lugged RS frame listed it for sale. And some of you find that remarkable, or want a back story so that his actions make sense to you. Maybe he's a ski industry rep whose knees no longer work. Or maybe his second wife is about to bleed him dry. I've had clients here who have emptied accounts before the courts could have a chance to do the same. People about to be single do funny things, especially when lawyers are involved or when their lives take a downward turn. Such saints, some are. Maybe he's simply letting go and downsizing his lot on life. There was a thread about doing just that several weeks ago. Perhaps he read it and is following a lead.

Enjoy the pixels -

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10542916_10203275947612428_7802362722102401647_n.j pg

You'll sell all these too, just like the sell-off of NOS Campy stuff a few years ago. ;) Not that there's anything wrong with that.. Your taste, your prerogative.

OTOH, I wonder how much anyone can truly appreciate something they've collected in numbers but never read, nor opened, nor ridden?

[SPOKE]

I buy custom frames simply because I want to and can.....bicycles are my vice. I have all the ones that have been built specifically for me. I view these custom bikes as functional art......my own little collection of beautiful tools that I get to enjoy riding or just looking at.

[Llewellyn]

I have bought and sold several custom bikes in 2012 that only had a few hundred miles on them. I wish I hadn't, but my economic situation had changed dramatically that I simply had to sell them to make economic ends meet.

Since having to unload those custom bikes I have ridden the hell out of an off-the-shelf carbon fiber bike that is my war horse. I have no real affinity to that bike, as I didn't get to choose paint or to have geometry custom-made for me. I am happy with this bike, however, as I see it as a tool and use it as such.

My number has come up on a very long waiting list and, after much thought and deliberation, I've decided to jump back in to the custom bike world. It is a stretch for me financially, but I have this image of me enjoying nice, long, leisurely rides into my old age and I see this bike as the one I'm on (instead of the carbon fiber aero bike with deep-dish wheels I currently ride). Who knows, maybe it becomes a seldomly used coffee shop ride bike that I only use once or twice a year. Even if I used it only a few times a year, I will still be glad to have this bike in my garage.

And though I can probably make better use of the money than spending it on a custom bike, it is a bucket list sort of thing and a reward to me for even making it this far.

However, I do not see how it is any of the OP's business how I choose to spend my money on my hobby and the level of satisfaction my custom bike purchase brings me. Who is he to judge me? [And, by the way, I've received numerous awards and recognitions for my volunteer work throughout my career, so, to address the contribution to society angle, I feel very comfortable with that side of the ledger in my life.]

There is something about this post that struck a strong chord with me. I can't quite articulate how wrong I think it is, and I don't know why the OP posted it. But all I know is I don't like it.

Surely there are far more important things to get wound up about :confused:

[Llewellyn]

I could never sell my custom frame, unless the buyer's name is Carl, because it has Carl's Bike printed on the top tube.

So it's a good thing I have no intention of ever selling it :banana:

[jr59]

Here's a macro shot from a New Yorker Magazine cover from 1929. The artist is Haupt. It's one of over 120 issues the publication has printed going back to 1927, all of which contain bicycles in the cover art. I collect these, but only new and copies that have never been in circulation. At least 70 of these predate the Watergate era, so think about that when you're considering ephemera that's new, but unused. I've been collecting these since the mid 1970s. I have every issue (sic) and multiples of most too. The Haupt issue was among the hardest to locate in perfect condition, but I did some locate it some 10 years ago.

There are so many beautiful covers over the years, I'd be hard-pressed to pick a favorite. The Hiroshima issue from 1946 (look it up, huh...) has to be near the top; it's the only time in the magazine's history when the entire contents were devoted to a single topic. In this case, it was Hersey's story about the bomb. All of these magazines are kept out of sunlight, and in archival bags. All are perfect.

I know these magazines are not bicycles, and I'm not making comparisons across the objects folks like to surround themselves with. But I've never even opened most of these New Yorker Magazines that I have. I mean, why would I do that? Why would I even care about what's inside atmo?!

So the cat with the Newvex lugged RS frame listed it for sale. And some of you find that remarkable, or want a back story so that his actions make sense to you. Maybe he's a ski industry rep whose knees no longer work. Or maybe his second wife is about to bleed him dry. I've had clients here who have emptied accounts before the courts could have a chance to do the same. People about to be single do funny things, especially when lawyers are involved or when their lives take a downward turn. Such saints, some are. Maybe he's simply letting go and downsizing his lot on life. There was a thread about doing just that several weeks ago. Perhaps he read it and is following a lead.

Enjoy the pixels -

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10542916_10203275947612428_7802362722102401647_n.j pg


Best thing I have ever read that Richard has written, and as much as I hate to admit this, I read all of his blog post, Facebook posts, as well as ATH post. I VERY rarely agree with him at all. In fact most time I strongly disagree with his views. But this is a good as it gets.

I also think he will tire of this as well and sell these, like all the NOS campy stuff he had. I hope he does as well with these as he did with those!

God job Richard!:hello::hello::hello:

[zap]

I've barely ever posted here, but feel the need to rant about this. Why do I see so many custom bikes/frames for sale that look like they've never been ridden? I just saw a link to a Sachs for sale with less than 200 miles, that he waited "years" for. You waited years for something you're not going to use? These frames were built by artisans who toiled over them, and you're not going to enjoy it? I would think framebuilders want their bikes to be ridden and enjoyed. (Or maybe they only care if the check clears...)

If you have so much disposable income, maybe donate some "regular" bikes for those in need. Don't just stick them on a wall or in the corner of your room under a blanket. Use/feel/enjoy them. Do you go to a museum and just visit the Gift Shop?

Anyway, got that off my chest. Ride that thing. Scratch it, ding it, it's a bike for goodness sake.

Collector, bad fit, frame sucks….life changes.

[Bob Ross]

Sitting on it, unpacked, is part of the foreplay. That's not a joke.

...and yet it makes such a sublime one.

[jamesutiopia]

A regular customer is always appreciated.

If your framebuilder is cool, local, and in need of the business, you might buy (and not sell) bikes from him to do your part for local bike culture and connect with some interesting people you would never otherwise encounter in your world.

[Joachim]

I guess Buzz is scavenging for unused bike parts in trash in SoCal or NYC.. Watch out Christian!

[Birddog]

I really don't care one way or another about this issue. I have wondered every once in awhile if the reason for selling was because the customer had too much input into the design and they just came out "wrong".

[mktng]

Not everyone feels the same way about these sorts of things. I think once you've reached a point in your life where you stopped caring... You'll sell anything. Maybe he's loved it so much, he just can't ride it. He's definitely not asking a low dollar amount for it. So maybe he's hoping the next person who picks it up will ride it. He already knows at $5k... The next person will love it.

[malcolm]

Buzz-pal, you are brave or foolhardy, depending on who you ask.

You hit on a raw nerve.

There's no right or wrong answer. It can be anything.

Ultimately it's somebody else's prerogative, we can't call that into question.

But just for fun, it's an interesting observation. Again, not all do it for the same reasons.

And to be completely truthful, one has to admit a question like this never came out of a clean slate, but carries some preconceived notions right out the gate.

This about sums it up. These questions are almost always more about the person asking that what is being asked about. As with all things to do with the human species the reasons are myriad and there is no one answer and the person asking has some sort of bias as genesis of the question.

[93legendti]

...Maybe he's simply letting go and downsizing his lot on life. There was a thread about doing just that several weeks ago. Perhaps he read it and is following a lead.
...
Ouch! That's foisting the forumite with his own petard...

[Kirk007]

As Weisan noted, there would appear to be heaps of judgmental baggage being towed under the surface of that original post.

If I was the seller in this instance, and I'm not, and was asked that question to my face, my response would be less than polite, indeed a polite synopsis would be along the lines of "piss off."

I can't understand why folks feel the need to judge others, particularly on something as trivial as owning/using a bike. (I guess that's somewhat hypocritical to post, oh well). Y'all live your life, I'll live mine and as long as we aren't hurting one another (a concept that can extend quite broadly I'll grant you), I for one will keep my mouth shut.

[professerr]

***

[e-RICHIE]

Misperceptions of satisfaction have launched a thousand ventures, from Beanie Babies to the discovery of the New World.


A custom bike doesn’t make sense for 95% of us, so it is a more emotional purchase than most, driven by some fantasy about the bike or, if they are clever, the maker. But at the end of the day, a frame is a prosaic thing which will at best only live up to the most modest of fantasies and at worst will disappoint in some aspect. When that happens, they get stuck on the wall, parked in the garage, or sold to help fund the next attempt.

I have felt the same way about some long-in-planning vacations I took, apparel bought, and even some New Yorker magazines I received even though they were on my seek list. Hey, I make bicycles. It's how I get paid so I can carry on with the other things in my life. If folks attach to them or those of us making them, I still get paid. What they do with them is not something I get that wrapped up in. Sure, I make them with the riding in mind. But when one is finished, I start the next one atmo. And PS I know you know this, but for the sake of your reply I'll add this: I haven't made a custom frame since at least 1978. And I think your 95% comment about who needs what is extremely generous.

[e-RICHIE]

Ouch! That's foisting the forumite with his own petard...



I was serious, Adam. Maybe the seller really has a case of rampant fan-boi-ism for those setting the "Let's clean house, pare down, and simplify..." zeitgeist and wants to reverse engineer the hysteria that followed years and years of accumulating. I mean, just recently folks here have advocated for the Big Purge. Maybe those posting have a greater influence on others than they think they do atmo. Whatever make one Happy, and all that...

[93legendti]

I was serious, Adam. Maybe the seller really has a case of rampant fan-boi-ism for those setting the "Let's clean house, pare down, and simplify..." zeitgeist and wants to reverse engineer the hysteria that followed years and years of accumulating. I mean, just recently folks here have advocated for the Big Purge. Maybe those posting have a greater influence on others than they think they do atmo. Whatever make one Happy, and all that...

I know you were serious. The harshest (and most unfair) comments against you herein were made by the author of that cleaning house thread...hence my post.

[Charles M]

Every so often we get another thread where someone b!t ches about other people liking bikes...

[soulspinner]

...and yet it makes such a sublime one.

:p

[rugbysecondrow]

The process of getting a custom frame can be a great experience.

I have a few custom bikes in my home. They don't get ridden like they used to, but in general I don't ride as much as I used to. It's all good, I won't sell them and they will be there when I get back into it. I still have my golf clubs...those suckers haven't been used in 7 years, but they are there. HAHA

I just cancelled cable saving $125 a month...$1500 a year. Talk about a waste.

[estuche]

Museum might be a bad analogy. A museum is a room full of things that are looked at but not used.

All jokes aside, my Tommasini doesn't see near as many miles as my other bikes, but it would be the last I sold.

It's not my preference to see bikes that are never ridden, but who am I to tell people what they should do with their stuff. I would rather have a $4000 frame hanging on my wall that a $4000 painting.

Interesting comparison, I wonder if all bike frames would go up in value as art does in time...

[thirdgenbird]

Interesting comparison, I wonder if all bike frames would go up in value as art does in time...

It is surprising at how well some do maintain value but I would say very few would increase. If more people kept them pristine, supply would go up and cause and prices would come down.

[pbarry]

Bikes will never appreciate as much as fine art does. More people are creating more paintings/sculpture/mixed media today than all of the one-man frame builder shops produced since the late 19th Century.

Currently, more frame builders per capita make a decent living from their work than fine artists do.

[thirdgenbird]

Bikes will never appreciate as much as fine art does. More people are creating more paintings/sculpture/mixed media today than all of the one-man frame builder shops produced since the late 19th Century.

Currently, more frame builders per capita make a decent living from their work than fine artists do.

I don't disagree with this.

I should have noted "used" on my comment above. Bikes are not investments, but good 80-90s steel frames and Campagnolo parts are pretty cheap to use when resale is figured in. I said I would take the bike on my wall vs fine art because I would rather look at the bike. Before either, I would make a $4000 investment :)

[brando]

I tried n+1 for a while, now my garage looks ridiculous. Now every bike I own is in competition with the "next" bike. I can understand babying an expensive custom bike, it losing its luster to some sweet new thing and it going on the chopping block to recoup. Maybe it even hung on the wall for a year or two while its fate lay in the balance.