riding in the city

[Fixed]

bro how many of you guys ride in traffic? not on country roads but in the middle of the city, ride between lines of cars man does that make you feel alive and alert .i.m.h.o. don't be scared to hit the sidewalk the trick is to keep moving all the time .try to ride through your city and never stop or put your foot down .remember it is a jungle and be careful too.what do you think ?.cheers :beer:

[Samster]

Fixed:

i commute and ride in traffic (if you can call st. louis a real 'city' though not on the scale of chicago, ny, etc.)

traffic's never that bad around here, but it can pile up sometimes. weaving and dodging is exhilarating, but personally, i give cars due respect since they're bigger and faster. i try to keep moving, but will generally respect red lights and stop signs and yields, and still almost never have to unclick.

ride safe.

[93legendti]

bro how many of you guys ride in traffic? not on country roads but in the middle of the city, ride between lines of cars man does that make you feel alive and alert .i.m.h.o. don't be scared to hit the sidewalk the trick is to keep moving all the time .try to ride through your city and never stop or put your foot down .remember it is a jungle and be careful too.what do you think ?.cheers :beer:

Is this a joke?

[nick0137]

Yeah....Riding in London traffic really makes you feel alive....until it kills you. :rolleyes:

[Fixed]

bro there are guys who load up their bikes take to some place safe to ride and ride around like a bunch of school girls for an hour and tell themselfs they are cyclist then there is the real thing .bikes are for riding i.m.h.o.
16 years as a mess and I still here bro cheers

[nick0137]

I go without using the car for weeks at a time - I cycle to work (fixed, of course :) ), my wife cycles to work (or gets the Tube) and the kids walk to school. Just sold my car (Subaru Impreza STi) which had only done 10,000 miles in over 3 years, when I'd done 10,000 miles cycling in each of those 3 years. Shame really, cos I love cars...

[93legendti]

Hey, you're an adult and hopefully able to logically assess reasonable and unreasonable risks. In Michigan, one of the reasons (IMHO) motorists hate cyclists so much is they see them breaking the traffic laws--blowing thru stop signs and red lights, riding more than 2 abreast, obstruting/blockading traffic and crossing double yellow lines AND weaving in between cars.

Me? I have a wife, 3 year old daughter and soon to be born son that my only goal is to return safely home to. If I wanted to gamble mixing it up with
3-4000 lb cars with drivers who are drinking coffee, talking on their cells and putting on makeup, I'd make sure I had plenty of $ in the bank, a current will and life insurance. And I'd tell my wife good bye before I did it each time. When I hear of a cyclist dying in a traffic mishap, I often wonder, was it someone obeying the laws; riding defensively; and riding as far to the right as possible? Or was it someone doing something insanely stupid that was preventable?

[Fixed]

bro nobody knows what will happen when you walk out of the door for the day i.m.h.o. maybe you should take up running .cheers :beer:

[Too Tall]

Interesting post Fix'd. I ride in busy downtown traffic twice a day to an from work. Like you say, it feels safer if I keep moving and never put a foot down. As for packing my bike up and riding around in a safe womb of country bliss...well if it were only so. The worst most consistent car harassment I ever have is on seeminlgy quiet "country" lanes :rolleyes: Must have something to do with all the new money.

Just by chance...last sat. I trained for about 25 miles with the infamous DC sat morning "goon ride" and than split for greener pastures at about the 1/2 wy point and I spied this cool dude by the side of the road fixing his bike. As is customary I yelled to ask if he needed anything and DOH it was a long distance rider pal I used to hang with yrs. ago. He was riding an amazing bike frame made by native americans...classy brazing, considerate braze ons etc etc. He buttoned up his rig and we peddaled away for a chat...well it seems that he and his family decided to have a "life" change a few yrs. back and they sold their cars...his version of a war protest. Now, the entire family gets by and manages their life car free.

You get your props +++ for being a stalwart messanger and as far as I am concerned kudos go out to everyone having the sense to be involved and passionate about bikes and sports..."it" comes in all shapes and sizes...that's all I'm saying. :cool:

[93legendti]

bro nobody knows what will happen when you walk out of the door for the day i.m.h.o. maybe you should take up running .cheers :beer:

i.m.h.o. Maybe you should have your head examined if you think "riding (and/or weaving) between lines of cars" in moving traffic is smart and safe..cheers :beer:

That's right "nobody knows what will happen when you walk out of the door for the day"--but it is a silly excuse for deliberately violating traffic laws. I used to commmute as well. And I often use my bike to run errands. I do NOT deliberately ride/weave between cars, violate traffic laws and throw caution to the wind because "anything can happen". The problem with that mentality is riding dangerously becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. But the bigger problem, at least around here, imho, is every idiot who treats the roads like a personal playground (rather than obey traffic laws) increases the public's negative feelings towards those of us who actually obey the laws.
We used to have a selfish dolt who rode with us--he crossed the double yellow lines going up hills, rode close to the center line and rode 3 abreast. When I asked him not to, explaining that it was illegal and a violation of traffic laws, he said he did not care. When I asked him if he worried that a car would swerve to miss him and hit his riding buddies, he said he did not care about anyone else. Thankfully he was thrown off the ride that day.

You go Fixed, you obviously know what you are doing.

[Ray]

bro how many of you guys ride in traffic? not on country roads but in the middle of the city, ride between lines of cars man does that make you feel alive and alert .i.m.h.o. don't be scared to hit the sidewalk the trick is to keep moving all the time .try to ride through your city and never stop or put your foot down .remember it is a jungle and be careful too.what do you think ?.cheers :beer:
I ride in my small urban borough a lot and in Philly often enough to know the drill. I like mixing it up with urban traffic - the blocks are short enough that they can't really go much faster than you can, so it's pretty easy to take your place in traffic and co-exist. But yeah, you have to be constantly alert, assertive, and reactive. Assertive and reactive seem like opposites, but you gotta do both to get through.

I don't know about never stopping though. The best way I find to get along with cars is to assert my rights in traffic, but to obey the same laws they do. I stop at red lights if I have to - if I see em soon enough I can soft-pedal and generally time it to blow through right after it turns green. The fixie is the best bike for urban riding, but I frequently take my Brompton in on the train and it's not bad either - a quick and responsive little sucker.

-Ray

[JohnS]

There are many different types of riding. Commuting is one thing. Riding as an occupation is another. Most of us ride to relax and get away from the hustle and bustle of the city. That does NOT make us a bunch of "schoolgirls". To each his own...

[Fixed]

[ Thankfully he was thrown off the ride that day.

.[/QUOTE]
bro how do you throw someone off a ride arn't streets open and free ?.cheers

[93legendti]

There are many different types of riding. Commuting is one thing. Riding as an occupation is another. Most of us ride to relax and get away from the hustle and bustle of the city. That does NOT make us a bunch of "schoolgirls". To each his own...

You speak bibles of truth...sig worthy!

[93legendti]

[ Thankfully he was thrown off the ride that day.

.
bro how do you throw someone off a ride arn't streets open and free ?.cheers[/QUOTE]

Show up on our rides and ride/weave between cars and you will see. imho. atmo. cheers bro beer bro.

(Public streets are not open and free-- there are laws governing usage of the public streets...types of vehicles allowed, direction, speed, parking, passing--they are all regualted. I am pretty sure the taxes I pay go to upkeep of the roads--doesn't feel free or open to me...check it out!)

imho. atmo. cheers bro beer bro.

[spiderlake]

The only major cities I have ridden in are Frankfurt, Paris and Chicago. I had a great time and never felt threatened or worried I was taking my life into my own hands. When I lived in Germany (4+ years), I didn't own a car and took my bike (a real hunk of crap) or public transportation. At the minimum, I rode my bike to and from the train station.

Like others that have posted in this thread, I live in Michigan but I can't say I have had bad experiences with motorists. I have had more issues with people on horses and hikers on MTB trails than anything else but that's a whole different story. People always ride two abreast on Old Mission Peninsula and it's never been a problem. I guess I don't see those issues. Maybe it's an east side of the state thing?!?!?!

I agree with Fixed - life is short - make the most of it. I don't think he was advocating reckless behavior. Instead, I it seemed he was simply describing the thrill of riding in the city from his point of view. He didn't say throw all caution to the wind.

Darrin

[93legendti]

The only major cities I have ridden in are Frankfurt, Paris and Chicago. I had a great time and never felt threatened or worried I was taking my life into my own hands. When I lived in Germany (4+ years), I didn't own a car and took my bike (a real hunk of crap) or public transportation. At the minimum, I rode my bike to and from the train station.

Like others that have posted in this thread, I live in Michigan but I can't say I have had bad experiences with motorists. I have had more issues with people on horses and hikers on MTB trails than anything else but that's a whole different story. People always ride two abreast on Old Mission Peninsula and it's never been a problem. I guess I don't see those issues. Maybe it's an east side of the state thing?!?!?!

I agree with Fixed - life is short - make the most of it. I don't think he was advocating reckless behavior. Instead, I it seemed he was simply describing the thrill of riding in the city from his point of view. He didn't say throw all caution to the wind.

Darrin
Hey, ride on non-highways; no more than 2 abreast; obey traffic lights/signs; and ride on the right side of the road close to the shoulder and I am with you. Riding/weaving between cars in moving traffic, never stoopping and creating a lane where one does not exist is illegal and dangerous here--isn't it where you are?

[CalfeeFly]

In 4,000 miles in a year I'll ride 3,000 at least in the city. In 6,000 miles I'll ride probably about 4,500 in the city. I much prefer it over the burbs where they don't think bikes are allowed on their road. A woman in an Expedition is a terror to me. My problem with real country roads is often a lack of a shoulder and people don't expect to see you coming over a hill from either direction. I find then that they don't react fast. Plus you then get the redneck in a pickup truck equal in danger to the burb housewife in the Expedition. The only danger shared by all 3 is the old guy/gal in a Buick. I have also found with sprall getting worse and worse there is not true country anywhere near a city/suburb.

I love to ride in the NYC area. The city is fun and Route 9 in NJ is great! I also like to ride in Phildadelphia. In addition to the park along the river it has over 100 miles of bike lanes. I also find any city with bike cops get cars friendlier to bikes. In the winter and cold weather I wear official police clothing (jacket, pants, and shorts for bike partrol) without markings. You cannot believe how friendly and polite people can be!!! I even get waved across intersections to make a left. Wonderful, wonderful. :)

[93legendti]

Calfee and Spider--do you obey traffic laws when you ride in the city? I do and I am all for safe city riding.

[Climb01742]

i lived in manhattan for 13 years. riding in midtown never once struck me as fun. survival requires riding aggressively. bike messengers in nyc are, IMO, equal parts extraordinary and insane. because i never had their skills or nerve, my aggressive riding always stayed this side of legal. yes, i scared a few jaywalking pedestrians but trying to dance with a nyc bus or cabbie is a quick way to heaven. personally, i find more enjoyment in one hour of riding where i live now than i did in 13 years of riding on nyc streets (except for those few 2AM bomb runs down broadway, park or 5th ave). central park was a different story. but i could just be a wimp. ;)

[CalfeeFly]

Calfee and Spider--do you obey traffic laws when you ride in the city? I do and I am all for safe city riding.

Most all the time I do. I do not blow through stop signs or lights. However if nothing is in sight and I can clear an intersection just before it changes I do that. This is after stopping. Too often people think if they can't squeeze past a bike within 50 yards they will never get around it. I also like to clear intersections on 4 way walks if there are not any pedestrians.

Last night one person in our group was not following any rules of the road. I figure he is going to end up dead from the car or possibly the driver with a 9 mm that he got angry enough to shoot him. He personally scared the crap out of me.

One thing I believe in is giving people the "wave" as Seinfeld called it to thank them for showing courtesy to me. I figure the odds are much better that they will do it again for the next bike. It is the rider like the person I described that makes cars hate bikes and in turn me.

[CalfeeFly]

i lived in manhattan for 13 years. riding in midtown never once struck me as fun. survival requires riding aggressively. bike messengers in nyc are, IMO, equal parts extraordinary and insane. because i never had their skills or nerve, my aggressive riding always stayed this side of legal. yes, i scared a few jaywalking pedestrians but trying to dance with a nyc bus or cabbie is a quick way to heaven. personally, i find more enjoyment in one hour of riding where i live now than i did in 13 years of riding on nyc streets (except for those few 2AM bomb runs down broadway, park or 5th ave). central park was a different story. but i could just be a wimp. ;)

Midtown at mid-day is a trip by car or bike. When I ride in NYC I can pick my routes which makes it a whole lot easier to avoid what you describe. I do like to ride with traffic but not as an all the time thing. I like to mix the riding up. I can do that where I live.

I also learned a valuable lesson about 6 years ago on First Avenue in the high 40's. That is busses can stop faster than bikes. I was flying along behind one of those smaller kind of busses when he slamed on his brakes. I guess he saw someone at the last minute. Since I realized I was not going to come to a full stop and I didn't want to lose my front wheel...I leaned over and hit it with my helmet. One nice surprise was how nice everyone was nearby as I picked myself up. :)

[jckid]

Last summer I rode through downtown San Francisco en route to the Golden Gate Bridge. It was a real experience--not something I'd want to do every day! Next time, I'll probably park closer to the bridge and start the ride from there. Riding through downtown made me feel alive for sure, but at the end of the ride I was thankful to still be alive!

[spiderlake]

I'd say most of the time I follow the "law" but not always..... I will ride between cars stacked up on a light during rush hour - imho, to do otherwise is just insane. Why would I sit in a traffic jam on my bike?!?! I do my best to time lights so I don't ever need to stop. I'll drop down alleys and sidestreets to avoid stopping. If that s breaking the law then I'm guilty but as I mentioned, my riding in the city is generally few and far between. Mostly 'burb and country riding for me these days.

Do you use hand signals? Do you ride on a bike path versus the road if it is available? Do you avoid the use of a pedestrian crosswalk while riding your bike? Those are all Michigan laws.

If you are riding in Detroit - Do you have reflectors on your bike? Do you have a bell or horn on your bike? City ordinance in Detroit requires those items, right? Do you avoid riding on or around Hart Plaza (no wheeled vehicles)??

We haven't even started on local ordinances. I don't have a point other than to hopefully illustrate the laws are many and not all of them make the most sense to me. Few, if any, are rarely enforced and based stricly on my point of view, I haven't had a problem with any of the risks associated with riding in the city. I don't feel my actions on a bike would lead a motorist to believe I should not be on the road. Hope that helps! : )



Calfee and Spider--do you obey traffic laws when you ride in the city? I do and I am all for safe city riding.

[MarcusPless]

Last year I put in a little over 5,500 miles commuting in San Diego. While it's not NYC I certainly do ride in a fair amount of traffic, and in some places have 60+ MPH vehicles passing within a couple of feet of me. I use the bike lanes where I can, and I try to ride as a vehicular cyclist, ie I ride my bike pretty much the same way I would drive my car. When I need to take a lane to get to where I'm going I take the lane. Basically I'm trying to use the 'Principal of Least Surprise' for the motorists. I stop for lights (and most stop signs), and I generally take my turn, just like a car or motorcycle.

As far as I'm concerned the people that I see that are on a bike weaving in and out of traffic and pretty much "doing their own thing" are part of the problem, and not part of the solution, and they're making my life more difficult in the process.

Of course, you can do everything "right" and still get run over. My most recent accident happened in early January of this year. It didn't involve high speeds or anyone doing anything stupid. I was going about 15 (had just rounded a turn and the streets were wet) and the car that hit me was making a left in front of me, so he was accelerating from a stop. Combined speed was probably no more than 30 MPH. I was centered up in the lane, right where I was supposed to be, brightly lit (it was dark, early am), and it made no difference. The first thing out of the motorist's mouth was "I didn't see him". If people don't look they won't see you. My bike was trashed, but at least I was able to walk out of the hospital a couple of hours later.

The docs in the ER (the police insisted I take an ambulance ride) couldn't believe that I didn't break anything. My ankle and knees are still tweaked but at least I can ride without any major problems. And I should have the frame to start building up the replacement bike this afternoon! I've been commuting exclusively on my Lemond Poprad (cross bike/urban assault vehicle) for the last couple of weeks, after taking five weeks or so off so my knees and akle could recover from the extreme twists/sprains they received. I'm looking forward to getting back on a regular road bike.

I know too many people that have been involved in some really serious accidents when they were riding sensibly in traffic. Not one of them did anything "wrong", but the law of gross tonnage doesn't care. Bikes (and motorcycles) simply don't do well when they come into contact with 4,000 lb. vehicles.

I'll ride in traffic, but I won't play in it.


--Marcus

[scrooge]

Do you use hand signals? Do you ride on a bike path versus the road if it is available? Do you avoid the use of a pedestrian crosswalk while riding your bike? Those are all Michigan laws.



Oops. Guess I'm guilty on all of those (why do I hate bike paths so much? anyway...)

I think the stoplight thing is interesting. I'm never sure how to handle this. I've been trying to use turn lanes etc, but it does seem like a waste of time sometimes...

[Ti Designs]

I'll ride in traffic, but I won't play in it.


There was a time when I just moved to Boston when I would call sprint training in the city "playing in traffic". Pedestrians in Boston don't know what a traffic signal is, so there are no rules in cross walks 'cept don't hit 'em at high speed. I would see a hole in the line of people crossing the street from 100 yards out and break into a full sprint. My reactions became razor sharp, but looking back on it I can honestly say it was a stupid thing to do.

Now I coach a team full of new riders, I'm responsible for getting them back safely. Who would ever guess that I would be a good example of riding in traffic? Most drivers can't tell the difference between a rider who knows the risks and limits their own risk exposure from the crazy messenger types, I sure can. Simply put, I don't put myself in a position to get hit. I don't stay in blind spots, I don't assume the drivers will use their blinkers (I think thats a rule around here), I notice parked cars with people in them ready to fling the door open...

I ride in the city a lot, I ride into and out of Harvard square at rush hour every morning. I'm faster on my bike than I am in my car (tested that theory many times), yet I feel I'm almost as safe. It's been 16 years since I was last hit - a better record than most people can claim of driving in the city. You can never be 100% safe. When I did get hit I was going thru an intersection with a green light on a clear day. The driver took a left turn from the other direction and nailed me - nothing I could do about it.

[Fixed]

bro the bottom line don't ride your bike like you drive a car .keep moving so you can move .learn to do a track stand so you can move .in rush hour when making a left turn ride the yellow line stay out of the way be seen and keep moving .when cars are backed up at a light ride by on the right side up to the front if you have to stop be out front out of the way not hidden behind a car 7 cars back.don't be scared to bail out on to a sidewalk the main thing is to keep moving this keeps you able to move ,seen and safe. traffic laws were made for cars you are not a car ride your bike like you drive a car and you will be dead. ..and they'll say but he followed the traffic laws . what I'm saying is look out for you... cheers :beer:
bro this is about riding by yourself not with a group that is anorther story and you guys know that one i.m.h.o.

[andy mac]

i like the excitment of riding in traffic. it can be a real rush - and i'm a big fan of the rush. :beer: in some ways it's easier in heavy traffic as it's slower and more predictible than on a suburban street.

however i live (hopefully not for long) in NYC. 25 cyclists killed in the city alone in 2005 and thousands more injured, many seriously. drivers here have little respect for human life compared with other cities i've lived in - san francisco, amsterdam, portland OR, melbourne, hobart - even a few months in hong kong.

on top of that the police hate cyclists here. in 2005 they issued bike riders 45,558 tickets and truck drivers, of which there are far more, only 13,500 tickets.

this should be one of the world's great cycling cities as it's small and flat. sadly it's slave to the car...

[djg]

bro there are guys who load up their bikes take to some place safe to ride and ride around like a bunch of school girls for an hour and tell themselfs they are cyclist then there is the real thing .bikes are for riding i.m.h.o.
16 years as a mess and I still here bro cheers

Bro, what have you got against school girls? And why do you care who calls herself a cyclist?

Peace.

[andy mac]

here's why sir fixed rides the way he does - it IS a fricken jungle out there. rules don't apply. check out this short clip from NYC.


http://www.transalt.org/e-bulletin/2005/Dec/6thavebikelane.html


:beer:

[MarcusPless]

I won't say I ENJOY riding in traffic, but it doesn't bother me. I do enjoy the times when I'm keeping up with (or even passing, if there's a lane) the cars around me. I enjoy sprinting to make a light. And I will weave my way out of an actual traffic jam. But a few cars stopped at a light doesn't qualify as a traffic jam.

IMHO ( :p ), track stands are great, if you're on a track. They're out of place on a busy street. I don't have any problem getting up to speed when the light turns green.

One can read all of the books on vehicular cycling that are out there, and I generally agree with the authors of those books, but at the end of the day everyone has to do whatever they feel comfortable doing.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree, Fixed.

--Marcus

[Andreu]

"3-4000 lb cars with drivers who are drinking coffee, talking on their cells and putting on makeup"

simple - ban cars. I'd rather have a courier on a fixie jumping red lights and riding on the pavement than someone driving a gas guzzling 4x4 who uses the mobile phone whilst driving. A bike will hurt possibly break a bone or two - there's no second chance if you have an argument with a car.

I rode near London for over 6 years and you have to ride aggressively to survive.
A

[scrooge]

here's why sir fixed rides the way he does - it IS a fricken jungle out there. rules don't apply. check out this short clip from NYC.


http://www.transalt.org/e-bulletin/2005/Dec/6thavebikelane.html


:beer:


Why I hope I never live in a city :butt: :butt:

[bigbill]

I am a commuter and can go all week without a car. My commute is 26 miles round trip using a MUT and roadways. Hawaii is different from any place that I have ever ridden. On city streets, people either drive ten under or ten over the speed limit. No one drives the speed limit which is 35 in most places. Because of this phenomena, I can roll up to an intersection at a red light and be assured that I will have a gap between vehicles when the light turns green. It only takes one slow car to allow me to keep up with traffic. I don't even attempt to keep rolling at all times, I stop at red lights and check for traffic if I plan on rolling the red. The lights here don't detect a bike, not even a steel one leaned over the sensor. If there are no cars at the intersection, I stop and roll. I don't ever ride between lines of cars, I take advantage of the laws that allow me to ride to the right on all roads and the option of riding to the left on divided roadways. Another law here is to ride in the lane with the flow of traffic, that one is handy. I am married with a six year old child who want to see me arrive safely everyday, life is a calculated risk, I fail conservative.

[Fixed]

bro I have 16 years at this I 'm only trying to give my bro 's some new ways to think about city riding thats all . cheers :beer:
bro ever pass everybody in a race in the gutter it all about bike control .cheers

[Grant McLean]

here's why sir fixed rides the way he does - it IS a fricken jungle out there. rules don't apply. check out this short clip from NYC.
http://www.transalt.org/e-bulletin/2005/Dec/6thavebikelane.html
:beer:

that's a crazy video! Bike lanes blow, because nobody respects the
space and leaves in unblocked. Marked with a <> in paint, people don't
even know what it is.

One way streets suck because you have both sides of the street to
worry about. At least on a two way street, you know what direction
the doors are going to open, the right side curb.

I ride in midtown Toronto everyday, always have. I don't get a "rush" or
find it "exciting", it's just the environment i'm used to. Relax on your
bike no matter where you ride. I can ride a loop for 4 hrs and not be
out of the urban area, an hour in any direction doesn't get you out of
town! More and more farmland is being plowed for homes, so people
can get in their coffins and sit in trafffic waiting for death.

-g

[jerk]

fstrthnu and the jerk did recovery rides all last spring and summer through boston and cambridge. they're were actually far less "incidents" with motorists than there were on the quiet country roads west of the city where there's a wide shoulder, speed limits and everyone is suppossed to be nice.

imho bro, riding dowtown in heavy crazy traffic is safer than trying to do an interval on a two lane country road; not that either activity is all that dangerous.

this however is dangerous:
http://www.digave.com/videos/

[Fixed]

i.m.h.o. Maybe you should have your head examined if you think "riding (and/or weaving) between lines of cars" in moving traffic is smart and safe..cheers :beer:

That's right "nobody knows what will happen when you walk out of the door for the day"--but it is a silly excuse for deliberately violating traffic laws. I used to commmute as well. And I often use my bike to run errands. I do NOT deliberately ride/weave between cars, violate traffic laws and throw caution to the wind because "anything can happen". The problem with that mentality is riding dangerously becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. But the bigger problem, at least around here, imho, is every idiot who treats the roads like a personal playground (rather than obey traffic laws) increases the public's negative feelings towards those of us who actually obey the laws.
We used to have a selfish dolt who rode with us--he crossed the double yellow lines going up hills, rode close to the center line and rode 3 abreast. When I asked him not to, explaining that it was illegal and a violation of traffic laws, he said he did not care. When I asked him if he worried that a car would swerve to miss him and hit his riding buddies, he said he did not care about anyone else. Thankfully he was thrown off the ride that day.

You go Fixed, you obviously know what you are doing.
bro do you always personally attack everyone you disagree with ?cheers

[93legendti]

bro do you always personally attack everyone you disagree with ?cheers

I didn't think I was personally attacking you anymore than you were personally attacking me when you said:

"maybe you should take up running"

and:

"bro there are guys who load up their bikes take to some place safe to ride and ride around like a bunch of school girls for an hour and tell themselfs they are cyclist then there is the real thing .bikes are for riding i.m.h.o."


just before that post of mine. Sorry you took it that way. It wasn't my intent, just as I am sure it was not your intent. Cheers!

[Fixed]

bro the other name for a bike messenger is runner cheers bro

[Grant McLean]

this however is dangerous:
http://www.digave.com/videos/

it's like watching an LA police highway chase... i keep waiting for the impact.

That dude "coasting" on his fixed at the end is crazy!

-g

[93legendti]

bro the other name for a bike messenger is runner cheers bro

Cool! :beer:

[manet]

this however is dangerous:
http://www.digave.com/videos/

sweet

[shaq-d]

do it all the time. traffic laws traffic schmaws. accidents happen at intersections, not straightaways. hence u'd be a dumbass to right the right lane during heavy traffic, risk getting bowled over by cars turning right. in super heavy traffic, taking a whole lane gets you a lot of attention, and you still go as fast or faster than the cars. it's safe enough if you're careful, as anything else. also, the more crazy you SEEM to drivers, the more leeway they give you.

i routinely break red lights, stop signs, etc. give cyclists a bad name i suppose. only traffic accident i've ever been in was one where i was following the laws and hiding. i'll never do that again.

note that this has to do with city cycling. very different from country cycling and "road cycling".

city cycling rocks. like the man says, be seen. seen=safety.

sd

[Argos]

I used to deliver bikes for my shop into NYC to customers while working in the city in the "entertainment industry". (I put it in quotes to sound like it was porn, but it wasn't.... dammit)

I've done the gratuitous tours in NYC, and they were alright, but I LOVED riding in the city. I never thought it was a burden or confused myself with being bullet proof, but it was exilerating. I like. I like.

[bironi]

What city in Florida do you work? Are Floridians drivers as bad as their reputation?

Cheerio

[Fixed]

bro they are all from up north cheers

[Tailwinds]

Are Floridians drivers as bad as their reputation?


Worse.

[CalfeeFly]

Why I hope I never live in a city :butt: :butt:

I"ve ridden that bike lane. It keeps you alert and awake. :)

[vaxn8r]

I've lived in urban areas and they really aren't that unsafe to navigate in traffic because the congestion does not allow for huge speeds. It's mainly a matter of being seen, being confident (maybe "crazy"), taking your lane, always moving, etc.

Compare that to Southern Cal. Wow, whole different animal. Street lights and wider streets allow for traffic to go between 50-60 on surface streets and on "country roads" it's not unusual for traffic to hit 70-80. Even in a bike lane I feel like a big target. Add to that mix a preponderance of Hummers and 3/4-1 ton trucks and mammoth SUVs. (I don't get why they even have SUVs and trucks in SoCal...what could you possibly do with one? Haul farm equipment? Go off-roading? Right!) Now if bikes were only allowed on the freeways...thats where we could kick a$$....like the motor bikes. Ironic.

[manet]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/easterncaster/IMG_0556.jpg

[satty tune]

In Michigan, one of the reasons (IMHO) motorists hate cyclists so much is they see them breaking the traffic laws--blowing thru stop signs and red lights, riding more than 2 abreast, obstruting/blockading traffic and crossing double yellow lines AND weaving in between cars.

Me? I have a wife, 3 year old daughter and soon to be born son that my only goal is to return safely home to. If I wanted to gamble mixing it up with
3-4000 lb cars with drivers who are drinking coffee, talking on their cells and putting on makeup, I'd make sure I had plenty of $ in the bank, a current will and life insurance. And I'd tell my wife good bye before I did it each time. When I hear of a cyclist dying in a traffic mishap, I often wonder, was it someone obeying the laws; riding defensively; and riding as far to the right as possible? Or was it someone doing something insanely stupid that was preventable?

Presumably, drivers in Michigan also hate themselves and all other drivers, no? I've been, and cars violate traffic laws there as well. Your "logic" suggests that the drivers should hate car drivers as well. Instead, I suppose that they use the fact that SOME cyclists break laws as an excuse to hate cyclists in general, but that the attitude is a symptom of some other underlying pathology.

All cycling deaths are preventable. The person could have opted not to go cycling. Do you have the same reaction when you hear of any death, that the person may have been insanely stupid? How about just sanely stupid?

[Ray]

I've lived in urban areas and they really aren't that unsafe to navigate in traffic because the congestion does not allow for huge speeds. It's mainly a matter of being seen, being confident (maybe "crazy"), taking your lane, always moving, etc.

Compare that to Southern Cal. Wow, whole different animal. Street lights and wider streets allow for traffic to go between 50-60 on surface streets and on "country roads" it's not unusual for traffic to hit 70-80. Even in a bike lane I feel like a big target. Add to that mix a preponderance of Hummers and 3/4-1 ton trucks and mammoth SUVs. (I don't get why they even have SUVs and trucks in SoCal...what could you possibly do with one? Haul farm equipment? Go off-roading? Right!) Now if bikes were only allowed on the freeways...thats where we could kick a$$....like the motor bikes. Ironic.
Yeah, it's suburban vs urban street layout and land use patterns. Urban areas generally developed when the horse and pedestrian were king. Blocks are short, roads are narrow, buildings are close to the street, the visual feeling is somewhat claustraphobic (ie, short sight lines). Hence, the alien automobiles move more slowly and a half-competant cyclist can hold his/her own in those environments. Bike lanes are luxuries but not really necessary in these environment.

In suburban designs, and I count a lot of newer cities like LA, Tucson, Vegas, etc in this category, the area was mostly developed after the automobile was king and they're designed accordingly. Wider roads, longer spans between intersections (they don't call 'em superblocks for nothing), buildings set waaaaay back from the street (gotta have room for parking), really long visual sight lines. Traffic moves very fast and no bike lane in the world is going to make a cyclist feel welcome or safe in this environment. I love riding in the city and in the country, but can't think of many things I'd less rather do than ride in most suburban areas.

Don't know if any of you Rivendell Reader readers saw the article by Maynard Hershon where he decided to give up cycling because of a series of run-ins with Tucson motorists? Really a bummer of an article, but understandable, even from an old cycling icon like Maynard. Tucson is always rated one of the more bike-friendly cities in the US because they've put bike lanes pretty much everywhere and a few trails as well. But you can't get around the basic suburban design of the "city", which was almost entirely developed after the advent of the automobile (except for a very small downtown area). Don't mean to pick on Tucson particularly, but I grew up there, know it well, and still have loads of friends out there.

-Ray