Cyclists not liked in California

[elcolombiano]

So far this week.

1. Got cut off by a car and then told by the driver on the esplanade in Redondo Beach, "you have no ····ing right of way".

2. Yelled at with my bike group for riding in the bike path along the beach in Santa Monica.

3. Pulled over while riding with my group in Malibu on Pacific Coat Highway by a Sheriffs deputy and told I should not be riding a bicycle on PCH and if I am I should be riding along the gutter. The officer let me go but ticketed my friend for riding a bicycle on PCH. I was with a group of about 20 riders.

[R3awak3n]

Its the same in a lot of states. In NY its the same thing.

I just came from Maine, Portland area and was surprised how nice everyone was, cars always slowed down and gave plenty (read, sometimes way too much ahah) when passing and cars stopped to let me turn the other way etc. It was awesome really, also some beautiful roads up there for sure.

[ceewho]

Sounds like a rough week. My experience cycling in Northern California differs greatly. Drivers are usually on eggshells around cyclists and generally polite. You get the occasional ass, but usually it's just cause they don't see you.

[Bstone]

That is not happening here in Florida. The pickup trucks try to see how close they can get to you with their mirrors. They think its funny.

[Saint Vitus]

Not my experience here further south. I don't know about PCH in OC and LA counties but in SD it's smooth sailing as long as you obey the rules. Have you looked up the current traffic laws regarding PCH in LA county?

As far as drivers it's a mixed bag anywhere you go, the worst I've heard anecdotally (see above lol) is in the southern states. My experience here in that regard is generally favorable, I do my best to show them respect and kindness when these are given to me. To paraphrase ceewho, there's always one bad one in a bunch.

[bcroslin]

That is not happening here in Florida. The pickup trucks try to see how close they can get to you with their mirrors. They think its funny.

I'll second that. I get to go testify against jerk in an SUV on Tuesday. No state hates cyclists as much as FL.

[kgreene10]

Surprising about PCH. Literally hundreds of cyclists travel up and down it from Santa Monica each weekend day. I would be amazed if it was a new Sheriff's Dept policy as opposed to a jerky deputy having a bad day.

[beeatnik]

http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2014/06/26/life-in-the-not-very-fast-lane/

[fogrider]

This is why more and more cyclist are equipped the cameras, front and back.

[weaponsgrade]

I was just on pch in Santa Monica / Malibu yesterday. From what I understand it's a very popular route. It's pretty sketchy for bikes though and I think drivers in the SF Bay Area are more courteous. I'd contest the charge.

[Ralph]

I'll second that. I get to go testify against jerk in an SUV on Tuesday. No state hates cyclists as much as FL.

There are jerks everywhere.

In Central Florida I think cycling is fine. About like everywhere else in US I've been with my bike. Our citizens just passed additional tax to build even more trails, bike lanes, and pedestrian facilities. Many roads have bike lanes alongside the car traffic. I rode about 45 miles this AM, mostly on roads, and never once had a close call. You tend to get what you give.

[kgreene10]

http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2014/06/26/life-in-the-not-very-fast-lane/

Wow! I would never think to occupy the whole lane on PCH. I can't imagine myself doing that.

[Steve in SLO]

Maybe the title of the thread should be "cyclists not like in crowded areas"
Here in beautiful SLO, where traffic pressure is low, there is generally pretty good cooperation between cyclists and drivers.

[Tony T]

Wow! I would never think to occupy the whole lane on PCH. I can't imagine myself doing that.

"Well, we need about 5 to 6 feet total"

Wow, if I did that on the East Coast, I'd get honked at also.
I can see needing 5 feet of road, I get by with 3 or less on a busy road.

[Jason E]

A lot of locals call NC crazy, but I enjoy it. I've not had a lot of regular problems. Myself and some friends have been hit, but rarely yelled at, FWIW.

Oddly, I've had two incidents in the last week that shook me a little. Tuesday I was on a local climb. Maybe 7-8% for a few hundred feet at most. It passes an entrance to a neighborhood and this guy is pulling out and going uphill too. He looks right at me when I'm perpendicular with him, maybe 10-12 ft away. As I keep moving up in front of him he starts rolling out. It's like I blended into his A pillar. ···. All I had from wind up on the hood of this S class were thread progressively louder "Hey!" At the top of my lungs.

Today, someone crossed right in front of me to where we both had to lock up. He was crossing from my left. He was in a Miata with the top down. Not sure how he didn't see me. I motioned and asked loudly how he couldn't see me. He flipped me off. He must've been a transplant.

Be safe.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[fuzzalow]

Most drivers, of all ages, nationalities and genders are incompetent (turn signals - no; check mirrors - no; judgement of speed - no; change lanes safely - no; etc. etc.). And virtually all of these same drivers would self describe themselves as better than average drivers. It is this disconnect - between the reality of what they believe they are capable of performing as a level of driver skill and what they are truly capable of executing in fact and in practice - that puts every cyclist at dire risk.

Or said in more simple terms: a lousy driver will never admit to himself that he is an imbecile behind the wheel. He will self-elevate his own skill set to be an acceptable norm in driving. As such any mishaps that occur will be seen as extenuating, unavoidable accidents that were impossible to avoid. This in spite of the fact that no action of his own, proactive skill & judgement existed in making a potential collision into a trivial, non-event in the free flow of traffic. Instead, these imbecile drivers do not react to the traffic situation around them and drive as if in possession of the road rather than in reacting to it. Because they don't know how to anticipate or react they force situations and pray for the best because that is all their incompetence allows them to do. What's the big deal, it's only a call to Allstate if they screw up.

MSF teaches motorcyclists SIPDE (Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute) for a reason. It is equally applicable to drivers of cars but will never be taught because lotsa sheet metal and no-fault insurance laws do not make it worthwhile in the interest of public safety.

Every complexity in the road reminds imbecile driver of situations he should but can not handle as a driver. What imbecile driver wants to be reminded that they are imbecile drivers? So of course they flip you the bird. Because the reaction is never "Whoa, I shoulda been paying attention" but "F**k You".

[ZeKGB]

Sounds like a rough week. My experience cycling in Northern California differs greatly. Drivers are usually on eggshells around cyclists and generally polite. You get the occasional ass, but usually it's just cause they don't see you.

I live in a fairly rural area of the South Bay (where the Hells Angels and Top Hatters congregate over the 4th of July) and my experience down here has been almost uniformly good, but every other month or so I get the idiot who thinks it's funny to pass my as close as possible and honk as he's doing it. Always wonder if he would think it was funny if i was so startled I ended up in the barbed wire 20 feet below the road surface.

[Jeff N.]

Not my experience here further south. I don't know about PCH in OC and LA counties but in SD it's smooth sailing as long as you obey the rules. Have you looked up the current traffic laws regarding PCH in LA county?

As far as drivers it's a mixed bag anywhere you go, the worst I've heard anecdotally (see above lol) is in the southern states. My experience here in that regard is generally favorable, I do my best to show them respect and kindness when these are given to me. To paraphrase ceewho, there's always one bad one in a bunch.Absolutely. In San Diego, they give us an entire lane along most of 101/PCH. Jeff N.

[joosttx]

The only "negative" drive cyclist interaction I have ever had living in California was a driver yelled at me because he couldn't see me in the shadows because I was wearing a black kit. I think he was yelling because he was driving and talking out his window.

You shouldn't of been riding in a group of 20 on the PCH especially on 4th of July weekend. That's ruins everyone's day. I am surprised the organizer of your ride chose that road with such a big group. If I was a cop I would of pulled y'all over too.

Secondly, club ride or whatever on a bike path is lame too. Assuming you had a group of 20. Probably should have not more than six people riding slowly. PS the "bike" path along Santa Monica beach is a multi use path as I recall. If not, then it still doesn't make it right assuming you had a large group.

We, cyclist, should share the road not take over the road.

Sorry no sympathies here.

[shovelhd]

6 feet? You gotta be kidding me. What a patient officer.

[54ny77]

that entire stretch of pch from malibu into santa monica (and vice versa) sucks. no room, cars up the wazoo, and just waaaaaaay too much traffic.

i lived right near there long enough and rode it enough to dread the intermediate schlep (15-20 miles round trip) to get to where the real beauty was: the santa monica mountains.

and that was a good decade or so ago. i'd imagine traffic is even worse these days.

[bart998]

Surprising about PCH. Literally hundreds of cyclists travel up and down it from Santa Monica each weekend day. I would be amazed if it was a new Sheriff's Dept policy as opposed to a jerky deputy having a bad day.

Was the group of riders in a pack or single file? California law requires all riders to be as close the the right edge of the roadway "as practical." What ever that is.

[elcolombiano]

The only "negative" drive cyclist interaction I have ever had living in California was a driver yelled at me because he couldn't see me in the shadows because I was wearing a black kit. I think he was yelling because he was driving and talking out his window.

You shouldn't of been riding in a group of 20 on the PCH especially on 4th of July weekend. That's ruins everyone's day. I am surprised the organizer of your ride chose that road with such a big group. If I was a cop I would of pulled y'all over too.

Secondly, club ride or whatever on a bike path is lame too. Assuming you had a group of 20. Probably should have not more than six people riding slowly. PS the "bike" path along Santa Monica beach is a multi use path as I recall. If not, then it still doesn't make it right assuming you had a large group.

We, cyclist, should share the road not take over the road.

Sorry no sympathies here.

First of all it was around 8:45 AM on a Sunday morning. Secondly we we were traveling 25 mph when pulled over. Also it was well north of the bike path. As soon as we get to the bike path we get off of PCH and on the multi use path. We have a big group and try to pass other cyclists and pedestrians at a slow rate of speed and with caution. We slow down on the bike path in order not to scare others. We were not holding up any traffic on PCH. There are two lanes south bound and the number one lane was available to travel at the speed limit. Later on in the day PCH becomes a parking lot on a holiday weekend.

[elcolombiano]

Was the group of riders in a pack or single file? California law requires all riders to be as close the the right edge of the roadway "as practical." What ever that is.

We were riding a double pace line over on the right side of the road. We had a meeting with the Sheriff Dept. Captain in charge of traffic earlier this year and he agreed what we were doing was legal and told us he would inform his deputies of this policy. Perhaps the information did not get flowed down or this officer was new.

[cinema]

lol group ride on the bike path. come on.

[ariw]

On rural roads this AM, our group was buzzed by two idiots on motorcycles. No one around for miles, and they flew by about a foot from my elbow.

-Ari

[Elefantino]

One of our group was bumped by a step van Saturday morning. No harm, but a great foul. I wish I'd had a camera.

And yes, Florida is the worst, but mainly the north and south. Particularly the northeast. (And the rural northwest.) Particularly drivers with white pickups. They all seem to be compensating for something.

(I apologize to all of you who have white pickups and are not compensating for something. To those who do and are, my condolences to you and possibly your spouse.)

[beeatnik]

lol group ride on the bike path. come on.

Guess you've never done the New Year's Day ride from Santa Monica.

[elcolombiano]

Guess you've never done the New Year's Day ride from Santa Monica.

Yeah - The Holiday ride has like 400 cyclists on the bike path in Santa Monica.

[beeatnik]

The issue with PCH, which Seth points out in his post, is that SoCal drivers think it's a freeway. I thought it was a freeway for years until I noticed the posted speed limits and realized that it's Malibu's main street. So whether or not cyclists can take a lane, that's secondary to the behavior of drivers who think they can drive 70mph through commercial and residential corridors.

[oldpotatoe]

So far this week.

1. Got cut off by a car and then told by the driver on the esplanade in Redondo Beach, "you have no ····ing right of way".

2. Yelled at with my bike group for riding in the bike path along the beach in Santa Monica.

3. Pulled over while riding with my group in Malibu on Pacific Coat Highway by a Sheriffs deputy and told I should not be riding a bicycle on PCH and if I am I should be riding along the gutter. The officer let me go but ticketed my friend for riding a bicycle on PCH. I was with a group of about 20 riders.

??? I have ridden from outside Camarillo, along PCH, past Malibu, to Santa Monica a bazillion times..wide-ish shoulder, NOT illegal for riding along PCH.

BTW-there is no 'gutter'....

[cfox]

Yeah - The Holiday ride has like 400 cyclists on the bike path in Santa Monica.

more people doing it makes it less lame? I will second cinema: lol group ride on the bike path. come on.

[redir]

Maybe the title of the thread should be "cyclists not like in crowded areas"
Here in beautiful SLO, where traffic pressure is low, there is generally pretty good cooperation between cyclists and drivers.

I think you are right. Not that this is by any means a good thing. But here in Virginia I can ride 25 miles and see maybe 5-10 auto's. But even still there are a few bad apples but it's much more rare the what I am hearing on this thread.

Education is always a good thing and I think they really need to bring it up in drivers Ed. Get 'em while they are young and hopefully not so full of hate yet that they can actually be educated.

[CaliFly]

I wonder how the Fourth of July weekend factors into all this? I was in Huntington Beach where they closed off a section of PCH on Friday. Saw some groups barreling down the crowded boardwalk cursing at pedestrian crosstraffic and slow cruisers.

I took my cross bike along PCH down to Newport Beach and witnessed both angsty and courteous drivers.

A-holes abound on non-holiday weekends...this increases exponentially with the crowds.

[norcalbiker]

Maybe the title of the thread should be "cyclists not like in crowded areas"
Here in beautiful SLO, where traffic pressure is low, there is generally pretty good cooperation between cyclists and drivers.

My son goes to CALPOLY and whenever my wife and I pay him a visit we bring our bikes. We normally ride down Hwy 1 North Bound to Cambria to San Simeon. Love climbing the Old Creek (I think) to Hwy 46. Most drivers are nice.

[norcalbiker]

So far this week.

1. Got cut off by a car and then told by the driver on the esplanade in Redondo Beach, "you have no ····ing right of way".

2. Yelled at with my bike group for riding in the bike path along the beach in Santa Monica.

3. Pulled over while riding with my group in Malibu on Pacific Coat Highway by a Sheriffs deputy and told I should not be riding a bicycle on PCH and if I am I should be riding along the gutter. The officer let me go but ticketed my friend for riding a bicycle on PCH. I was with a group of about 20 riders.

You should have came here in Northern CA instead. Mostly are friendly driver to cyclist. You do run into some A$$-O time to time.

[bart998]

This just in...

"Once again, police in bike friendly Santa Monica show a less friendly face to cyclists.

As they have done in recent years, the department announced a crackdown on law-breaking bike riders in the month of July, as part of a rotating focus on behavior they believe causes traffic collisions. Even though they say the other party is usually at fault when it comes to bike wrecks."

http://bikinginla.com/2014/07/06/morning-links-santa-monica-cracks-down-on-cyclists-again-ocsd-drags-its-feet-charging-threatening-driver/

[elcolombiano]

Check this out.

http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/

[gngroup]

Sounds like a rough week. My experience cycling in Northern California differs greatly. Drivers are usually on eggshells around cyclists and generally polite. You get the occasional ass, but usually it's just cause they don't see you.

+1

The drivers up here in the SF Bay Area, and especially in San Francisco, are pretty courteous in my experience. Now, the tourists bicycling on the Golden Gate bridge are another story . . .

[martinez]

Happy to hear better luck for those living in more bike friendly areas.
It's a bummer that from my experience, the most negativity comes from areas of more wealth where people are driving their bmw's and mercedes.
I get honks and stuff whenever I ride through Hollywood, Beverly Hills, beach areas...generally places with higher traffic like others have mentioned.
I do ride by myself so it's usually a little better than when I ride in groups.

It's super annoying, but I just try to respect the drivers and the rules regardless. For example, when I'm in the bike lane at an intersection, I make sure I move out of the way of the right turning lane (if applicable)...I tend to get surprised faces and waves from drivers. Be that one cyclist to change their view on us all! (Even if it probably won't. Haha)

[SoCalSteve]

Surprising about PCH. Literally hundreds of cyclists travel up and down it from Santa Monica each weekend day. I would be amazed if it was a new Sheriff's Dept policy as opposed to a jerky deputy having a bad day.

I ride from Marina del Rey to Malibu just about every Sunday ( for many years now) and have never once experienced a sheriff who was hostile towards cyclists...the exception is when the cyclist breaks the law...then we have seen them get tickets.

The trick is to not break the law. Stop at lights, ride single file, etc.

Good luck!

[54ny77]

i'm guessing that whole debacle is because you've got a bunch of kitted-out go-fast masters of their universe riding 2-3 abreast (echelon or not) taking up the whole lane on pch north of will rogers. frankly, that's just dumb. it's gonna piss off motorists (even though the riders are probably doing 25+ mph), as well as cops. just ride single file. it's not rocket science. all that jibber jabber about civil code this and meeting with watch commander that regarding interpretation of law so as to be able to take up the whole lane (of a 2-lane major highway), come on...really?

i lived in that exact area for some time and like so cal steve said, not once got hassled by a cop. if i was with a few guys, we always backed off to single file when conditions called for it. not a ton of stretch of road safe enough for two abreast riding anyway.

Check this out.

http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/

[beeatnik]

i'm guessing that whole debacle is because you've got a bunch of kitted-out go-fast masters of their universe riding 2-3 abreast (echelon or not) taking up the whole lane on pch north of will rogers. frankly, that's just dumb. it's gonna piss off motorists (even though the riders are probably doing 25+ mph), as well as cops. just ride single file. it's not rocket science. all that jibber jabber about civil code this and meeting with watch commander that regarding interpretation of law so as to be able to take up the whole lane (of a 2-lane major highway), come on...really?

i lived in that exact area for some time and like so cal steve said, not once got hassled by a cop. if i was with a few guys, we always backed off to single file when conditions called for it. not a ton of stretch of road safe enough for two abreast riding anyway.

Well, that's the rub right there; that section of PCH is not a major highway. Not according to the City of Malibu, Caltrans or the California Coastal Commission. As you probably know, parking isn't allowed on "major highways." Anyway, it's more dangerous to park and cross the street to gain beach access than to ride your bike on PCH.

Pacific Coast Highway (PCH) (State Route 1) is a four-lane state highway traversing the city from east to west along the Pacific Coast. The right-of-way includes an intermittent center turning lane. Within the city, PCH is about 25 miles long with a posted speed limit between 45 and 55 miles per hour. PCH is the only major arterial within the city. It serves mostly commuters during the weekday peak hours. In the summer months, it serves as an access route to the beaches along the coast. Peak periods for visitor traffic are on weekends and coincidental with the weekday afternoon commuter peak period.

Modified Major Arterial: Major roadways providing access from rural to urban areas and access to freeways. A typical major arterial consists of a 100-foot right-of-way with six lanes and controlled access, divided by a raised or striped median. Major arterials, serving as an intercity or community facility are expected to carry the majority of traffic between Malibu, adjacent communities, and the freeway system (see Figure CI-1). Pacific Coast Highway (PCH) would typically be designated a major arterial. However, given topographical and safety constraints, PCH in Malibu is limited to four lanes and is designated as a modified major arterial.

http://qcode.us/codes/malibu-general-plan/view.php?topic=ii-4_0-4_2-4_2_1&frames=on

[shovelhd]

Check this out.

http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/

Revealing, but not surprising.

[54ny77]

that's splitting hairs. highway, interstate, road, parkway--whatever! it's a road and people drive cars on there, fast and furious. i've had so many close calls coming into will rogers area i just did my best to always get through there as quickly as possible, then swing left on channel and navigate home through side streets. or if time & conditions permit, i'd hop on the bike path and take the slow & leisurely route to one of the overpasses that feed into ocean ave.

the thought these days of going up latigo makes my knees ache! but man oh man the riding there was probably among the best other than certain parts of northern cal.

Well, that's the rub right there; that section of PCH is not a major highway. Not according to the City of Malibu, Caltrans or the California Coastal Commission. As you probably know, parking isn't allowed on "major highways." Anyway, it's more dangerous to park and cross the street to gain beach access than to ride your bike on PCH.

Pacific Coast Highway (PCH) (State Route 1) is a four-lane state highway traversing the city from east to west along the Pacific Coast. The right-of-way includes an intermittent center turning lane. Within the city, PCH is about 25 miles long with a posted speed limit between 45 and 55 miles per hour. PCH is the only major arterial within the city. It serves mostly commuters during the weekday peak hours. In the summer months, it serves as an access route to the beaches along the coast. Peak periods for visitor traffic are on weekends and coincidental with the weekday afternoon commuter peak period.

Modified Major Arterial: Major roadways providing access from rural to urban areas and access to freeways. A typical major arterial consists of a 100-foot right-of-way with six lanes and controlled access, divided by a raised or striped median. Major arterials, serving as an intercity or community facility are expected to carry the majority of traffic between Malibu, adjacent communities, and the freeway system (see Figure CI-1). Pacific Coast Highway (PCH) would typically be designated a major arterial. However, given topographical and safety constraints, PCH in Malibu is limited to four lanes and is designated as a modified major arterial.

http://qcode.us/codes/malibu-general-plan/view.php?topic=ii-4_0-4_2-4_2_1&frames=on

[Gummee]

On rural roads this AM, our group was buzzed by two idiots on motorcycles. No one around for miles, and they flew by about a foot from my elbow.

-Ari

Must be ADVRiders. There's a HUGE thread of moto riders kvetching about bicycles on the road over there.

VERY ironic, I know. They don't see that. ...which makes it worse.

I'll typically encounter one idiot per ride that does something stupid. Primarily passing in unsafe spots, not necessarily passing too closely.

M

[charliedid]

So far this week.

1. Got cut off by a car and then told by the driver on the esplanade in Redondo Beach, "you have no ····ing right of way".

2. Yelled at with my bike group for riding in the bike path along the beach in Santa Monica.

3. Pulled over while riding with my group in Malibu on Pacific Coat Highway by a Sheriffs deputy and told I should not be riding a bicycle on PCH and if I am I should be riding along the gutter. The officer let me go but ticketed my friend for riding a bicycle on PCH. I was with a group of about 20 riders.

In other News: Millions of cyclists successfully and happily rode their bikes today without incident, in the great state of California.

[FlashUNC]

I guess I'll just ignore what Tom Ritchey told me at NAHBS when I was in the Ritchey booth and mentioned I was moving out there.

"You'll love riding in California."