"Saddle disappearing underneath you."

[sfscott]

I think this was a quote from Old Potato in a threat about saddles, saying that if a saddle fits you, you should not notice it.

How much is this statement a goal/relative thing vs. absolutely the litmus test.

Last year, I got a thorough fitting with 3D motion analysis. The fitter had me try several saddles, and I ended up with a women's saddle (the Ruby) from brand S.

It seems to have the right sit bone support but I definitely notice the saddle after 45mins to an hour. I have some pressure towards the front--not horrible mind you--but noticeable. I also definitely do not forget that I am sitting on a bike seat.

I had previously used a Fizik Arione but the fitter said that was a bad choice for me.

How much does a proper saddle really disappear, and what level of discomfort indicates that it is time for something different. I can definitely do a 5-6 hour day ride with the Ruby but as I said it's noticeable.

Maybe I am just intrigued by those SMPs that people are using and I should just stick with what me fitter fit to me.

[christian]

I can do four hours on a Regale. I can go as long as I can go on a Regal.

[pdmtong]

I think this was a quote from Old Potato in a threat about saddles, saying that if a saddle fits you, you should not notice it.

How much is this statement a goal/relative thing vs. absolutely the litmus test.

Last year, I got a thorough fitting with 3D motion analysis. The fitter had me try several saddles, and I ended up with a women's saddle (the Ruby) from brand S.

It seems to have the right sit bone support but I definitely notice the saddle after 45mins to an hour. I have some pressure towards the front--not horrible mind you--but noticeable. I also definitely do not forget that I am sitting on a bike seat.

I had previously used a Fizik Arione but the fitter said that was a bad choice for me.

How much does a proper saddle really disappear, and what level of discomfort indicates that it is time for something different. I can definitely do a 5-6 hour day ride with the Ruby but as I said it's noticeable.

Maybe I am just intrigued by those SMPs that people are using and I should just stick with what me fitter fit to me.

Consider the source. Those guys use Specialized software, and their goal is to extract as much money from you on the one time you are in there for a "fit". I bet they tried to sell you custom orthodics made right there, a new ritchey stem, of course the specialized saddle and perhaps a specialized shoe. maybe even new DA-7900 with wider Q?

They claim the Arione is a bad match for your pelvic girdle. bet they pulled out the skeletal structure to "show" you as well.

I would like to believe the ass-o-meter is a break through...but it would have me on a 155 and guess what...I can ride an Arione 100/10,000 and feel GREAT afterwards.

so, all this is to say, i dont think there is magic to saddles other than trying them and paying the price for buy/sell. I wish there was.

I did NOT see anything that the 3D guys did that my local guy could not do as well by hand. In fact, i think the reliance on software creates a false sense of precision.

I had a hard time reconciling the dots/lasers used for setback/saddle height and then the ad-hoc stem swapping an spacer add/subtract to get the front end reach/drop...no lasers...just "how does it feel"?

oh, and they scraped up my pals $350 carbon bar boffing the original stem removal..."it's ok, it only went through the clear coat"

before you bail on the saddle, have you tried adjusting the tilt a bit? or perhaps even trying a different chamois pad? for me arione is extremely tilt sensitive but once dialed, poof gone.

[giverdada]

everyone's mileage will vary, but i've had some interesting vacillations between saddle styles and found that all kinds of things worked and didn't, depending on factors like my flexibility and fitness and time of year for both.

i went from generic OEM saddles on mountain bikes (less padding the better) to OEM saddles on road bikes (all white for some reason), on to a brooks that i broke in over a winter in winter kit and ended up loving for a few years. if you look at that brooks, a b17, you'll see that i sit more deeply/harder on my left sit bone than the right. a brooks can take that and shape to it. cool. thing weighed a ton and looked like a granny saddle, but i could sit IN it all day long. and it adjusted to me with proper support wherever my position ended up having to be.

i later grew out of that brooks for some reason, after some time away from it, and came back out on an arione, mostly for looks. i grew to love the length of the arione, moving fore and aft at my leisure. i got a cheap one and we broke each other in. i've been on arione ever since, though i commute on either a brooks or a carbon aliante as my position is usually more upright for those.

i agree with the above points about fitters. good ones are hard to find, and much of what they 'have on hand' is what they're really hoping to fit/sell you to. tough spot for an honest opinion. i think you'll find from saddle threads and saddle sales on this forum alone: the saddle journey is a long and arduous one, but entirely worth it. the most important parts of my bike 'fit' are my contact points, the saddle being number one. in the springtime, everything hurts, at every contact point. by june, it's all gravy if i put in the time and the stretching. by september, i can spend all day in all my kit. took a few years to figure it all out though. ymmv.

[mtechnica]

Bike fit and rider weight have more to do with saddle comfort than the saddle itself. Personally the current model SLR flow with santini bibs has been the ticket, most of the saddles you see in the pro peloton are comfortable over long distances. Having a padded saddle that's too high is a great way to be uncomfortable.

[zzy]

I can ride my Brooks Team Pro, without a chamois/bike shorts, for days. There are many road saddles I can only ride for a few minutes before I get pain. Some backsides are more sensitive than others. I've noticed my hardcore 200mi+/week friends all ride a variety of saddles and don't really think about it.

I was 'fit' to a Spec. Romin 155 and I couldn't do more than 50 miles before the pain became unbearable. I agree that fitting saddles is pretty much a scam beyond the pelvic width.

I always go back to my old standby - a SI Prolink - which I can do 100+ miles days in a row without ever thinking about my butt. I find that you need to know what width, shape, and softness works for you. Lighter guys can generally get away with firmer, flatter saddles; and bigger guys need softer, more curved shapes.

While I kinda agree with Fizik's divisions, I think they have NOTHING to do with flexibility. I can easily touch my toes (thanks to yoga) and even almost get my palms on top of my feet, but an Arione is like torture to me. The Aliente is much better, but too curved side to side for me.

I really wish OEMs had a better tester program. Especially Specialized.

[oldpotatoe]

I think this was a quote from Old Potato in a threat about saddles, saying that if a saddle fits you, you should not notice it.

How much is this statement a goal/relative thing vs. absolutely the litmus test.

Last year, I got a thorough fitting with 3D motion analysis. The fitter had me try several saddles, and I ended up with a women's saddle (the Ruby) from brand S.

It seems to have the right sit bone support but I definitely notice the saddle after 45mins to an hour. I have some pressure towards the front--not horrible mind you--but noticeable. I also definitely do not forget that I am sitting on a bike seat.

I had previously used a Fizik Arione but the fitter said that was a bad choice for me.

How much does a proper saddle really disappear, and what level of discomfort indicates that it is time for something different. I can definitely do a 5-6 hour day ride with the Ruby but as I said it's noticeable.

Maybe I am just intrigued by those SMPs that people are using and I should just stick with what me fitter fit to me.

I think I said the bike disappears beneath you. Comfort is the answer..test ride a Arione, hopefully the fit guy has one of their test saddles.

BUT bike saddle not your Barcalounger..bike saddle. BUT the saddle shouldn't be uncomfortable, after 45 minutes.

Why did the guy say the Arione 'not the right saddle for you'? Cuz he sells specialized saddles?

BTW-I think PDMTong is spot on..there is a local gent here, bike fitter and physiologist, 'famous' for who he fit, who recommends nothing but spec-ed stuff..cuz he is sponsored by them in spades. He helped design their shoes, I'll bet he gets a $ everytime somebody buys one.

[Len J]

Fwiw, Arione's are ass hatchets.....for me.

I don't think there is a shortcut to finding a saddle that works for you....you just have to try until you find one. A few things I learned in my quest.

- there are only a few different basic shapes... Flat front to back, curved front to back, flat side to side, curved side to side. Figure out which one fits your anatomy first. It narrows the search.

- as you try a saddle, small adjustments can make a big difference. ( tilt, for/aft etc) experiment before you give up.

- once you find what works for you, buy duplicates. Manufacturers change things over time that can take a saddle that works for you into something that doesn't.

- it goes without saying, but everyone really is different. IMO, advice on the search is valid, recommendations on individual saddles are relatively useless.

- some people can ride almost any saddle, some have very specific needs.

- I never understood people with different saddles on different bikes. Same saddle makes setup so much easier. IME.

But to answer your original question, finding the right saddle does result in it disappearing IME.

Len

[Lewis Moon]

A saddle that disappears underneath you? That's called a seatpost.

[ultraman6970]

Sometimes part of finding a good saddle for you (or any person) is trying even the ones that you think wont work. For example got a selle italia Sl with a cut out, ugly and narrow ass saddle and amazingly enough it worked for me, my bones are at the limit of the saddle tho, seated at the edges.

I would advice the op just ask your friends for saddles they have moving around because you never know when you find the one that disappear underneath you, the same happens with shoes.

[malcolm]

Fwiw, Arione's are ass hatchets.....for me.

I don't think there is a shortcut to finding a saddle that works for you....you just have to try until you find one. A few things I learned in my quest.

- there are only a few different basic shapes... Flat front to back, curved front to back, flat side to side, curved side to side. Figure out which one fits your anatomy first. It narrows the search.

- as you try a saddle, small adjustments can make a big difference. ( tilt, for/aft etc) experiment before you give up.

- once you find what works for you, buy duplicates. Manufacturers change things over time that can take a saddle that works for you into something that doesn't.

- it goes without saying, but everyone really is different. IMO, advice on the search is valid, recommendations on individual saddles are relatively useless.

- some people can ride almost any saddle, some have very specific needs.

- I never understood people with different saddles on different bikes. Same saddle makes setup so much easier. IME.

But to answer your original question, finding the right saddle does result in it disappearing IME.

Len

Agree. Some things people overlook is fit/balance on the bike and just general fitness. If you are balanced/weight distributed properly all saddles will feel better and the ones that work best will be even that much better. Fitness also matters a lot as you get fitter you support more of your weight with your legs and less with the arse. Search for a saddle can become a search for the holy grail. I think sometimes people are looking for something that doesn't exist. If the fitness and or time in the saddle isn't there then all saddles are going to be uncomfortable after a given time. No saddle makes up for lack of time in the saddle or lack of fitness. disclaimer; I have lack of both.

[bigbill]

Regals on everything including MTB and spin bike. I have two new ones on the shelf in the garage in the event I wear one out in the next decade.

[AngryScientist]

i concur with the disappearing theory. i can ride almost any saddle for <2h. after that, if i dont have one of my favorites, the issues start to pop up. after a century+ on one of my preferred saddles, the last thing i actually think about is my saddle.

[pdmtong]

Let me just add that it's not inherently wrong for them to push specilaized saddles. They believe in the product so the sales pitch follows

What is flawed is that try as the industry might there isn't a magic formula for best saddle identification.

I think this would be a holy grail magic wand wish come true breakthrough if it could ever be

I think the rider fitness comments are also relevant to the general discussion

Chamois pad is another consideration. There is a difference. I have used voler pearl vermarc Mavic capo and Rapha. Unfortunately for my wallet the Rapha I like the best

[Bstone]

I have an old POS Avocet on my fixed gear. Far and away most comfy.

Selle Italia Trans Am on everything else. Pretty good...

Really, I think that the butt will always hurt some. Rule #5.

[fogrider]

I have different saddles, mostly because I can...I like to experiment and try different saddles, if it doesn't work, I get rid of it. If it works, keep it. Just don' t feel the need to change out the rest.

Saddles and other contact points are personal, start with a fitting but don't be afraid to experiment.

[EPOJoe]

I've always experienced some level of discomfort after the four hour mark on any standard saddle. The only type of saddle I can ride for days in total comfort is one of these, which really is more of a Barcalounger than a saddle:

[CunegoFan]

I've always experienced some level of discomfort after the four hour mark on any standard saddle. The only type of saddle I can ride for days in total comfort is one of these, which really is more of a Barcalounger than a saddle:

With a name like Schitter it makes me wonder if the saddle has a hole in it.

[Anarchist]

With a name like Schitter it makes me wonder if the saddle has a hole in it.

You should read the name again.

[sfscott]

Interesting input everyone.

First, a lot of the responses seemed to take the tack that the fitter is a shill for Specialized and interested in pushing equipment. The fitter in question runs a fit-only shop, and yes, uses Spec's Body Geometry system, which Spec bought from a third party. He also as Retul and other devices but likes the video aspect of the body geometry system. Watching the changes manifest themselves and knowing a bit about fitting theory, I think the system works, but as others said in the discussion of the Guru system, it's a tool which must be used by a trained and talented craftsman. The guy is a solid fitter, and if he were not, I doubt Lenard Zinn would quote him regularly in his VeloNews column.

He also sells other brands, like SMP and several of those pronged, stubby saddles that the tri-dorks seem to like. I did get a pair of shoes and insoles. And I am glad that I did. They feel and fit great, and actually, I had tried on the S-works shoes elsewhere and loved them only to be "sold" a different brand by another shop because the brand in question was handmade in Italy, not machines in China.

I don't think I was sold a bill of goods. After a year on the saddle in question, I am having some second thoughts. My LBS (which I typically avoid for anything other than lubes and drinks because it is a Trek store) has a SMP trial and loaner program. I am going to give that a shot and see what the hype is about. I may hate them and just got seduced by marketing, but we will see.

[John H.]

You realize that changing to a saddle like that (SMP) pretty much changes your entire fit?