SMP Composite Saddle - Install

[Splash]

I have spent hours on trying to get this saddle the way i wanted (with a book placed on the upper rear point and the top of nose area to be level).

but, i have concerns about the lack of front bolt inside that top nut thread - as seen in the attached photo.

not sure if i have done it right to leave that much thread showing (and hence may seemingly not much bolt holding the front nut...... ?

i don't know how else i can obtain this saddle profile without having to nearly exhaust the entire front bolt thread....

have i done it wrong? should there always be bolt protruding past that top lock nut - not matter much the saddle is positioned?

does my saddle now look more comfortable and sort of in the ball park where it needs to be?


Splash

[kramnnim]

I wouldn't ride it with the front bolt holding so little. Maybe you could get a longer bolt? Is the top section of the clamp symmetrical, or would it help to flip it around?

[thirdgenbird]

That's already a very long bolt. I wonder if bianchi has seen this. The rails are not tipped all that far.

Splash- i enjoy helping you, I really do. Does it make sense to just start a single "splash" thread where you can dump all these questions into one thread? I would subscribe and participate.

[biker72]

You need more thread engagement...one or two threads showing above the nut. I don't know what the solution is but I wouldn't ride the bike as shown.

[Peter P.]

Is there anything under that bolt head you can remove to gain you some threads?

I would either try to find a longer bolt or use a different saddle. I predict that if you use the current setup, you'll eventually strip the bolt or nut from riding forces and just when you need a replacement bolt or nut, that seatpost will no longer be available, rendering the entire frame as junk.

As a cheap alternative, I'd replace the bolt with a piece of metric threaded rod. Cut and file flats on the end for adjustment, and to make it look pretty.

[kramnnim]

I predict that if you use the current setup, you'll eventually strip the bolt or nut from riding forces and just when you need a replacement bolt or nut, that seatpost will no longer be available, rendering the entire frame as junk.


Or it might cause a crash and the frame would be ruined anyway... :eek:

[Climb01742]

It looks like the saddle and seatpost clamp just aren't a good match, meaning that the saddle requires more tilt angle than the clamp can safely give. Is there are flatter saddle you ride, one requiring less tilt angle? Saddles are cheaper to replace than frames.:rolleyes: hope you can find a solution.

[rain dogs]

There are all sorts of problems with that post and saddle set-up.

1. You're unable to get the the recommended angle. Maybe you don't need to because that is the best fit, but your saddle appears more nose down than is recommended, and you cannot go more nose up because your super long bolt (because of post design) is already too short. You should try a more nose up position if you haven't... to see how it suits you... but on that bike, as is, you cannot.

2. You need a longer bolt as per above. That bolt won't allow you to adjust the post for SMP saddles, which sit with a very sloped saddle rail position.

3. That clamp design of the post is wrong as well. I'm quite sure that SMP recommends not using clamps which don't support the rails directly above an below one another. The bottom clamp is narrower than the top clamp on the post putting sheer stress on the rails, and can bend/break the rails because the clamping force is not directly above/below the top and bottom clamp channels. Your's is the inverse of the design in fig.4 below. Understand?

http://www.albabici.com/selle/tech-info/fit/fit-smp-mp-master-1.gif

Problem is... that looks like a proprietary post/frame interface (shape/profile) which means no aftermarket post.... and as such... maybe not possible to use an SMP.

[Splash]

thanks for your help guys

splash

[kgreene10]

From the other posts, it sounds like you may be looking for another saddle. I used the SMP for years and found, surprisingly, more comfort with the Specialized Romin Evo. The other saddle I may try but haven't yet is the Selle Italia Superflow. Good luck.

[Splash]

so, my choice of saddles is now restricted to only those that is compatible with my non-symmetrical clamping setup?

i wonder how any other saddles out there require a symmetrical clamping setup - like the smp?


splash

[Splash]

As a cheap alternative, I'd replace the bolt with a piece of metric threaded rod. Cut and file flats on the end for adjustment, and to make it look pretty.

what bolt head configuration would i install on the end of this threaded rod so that i can insert an allen key, etc?


Splash

[Peter P.]

what bolt head configuration would i install on the end of this threaded rod so that i can insert an allen key, etc?


Splash

You don't.

You will need a metric nut and perhaps some sort of flat washer to span the gap the head of the existing bolt fits into.

Otherwise, if the nut fits into the recess where the existing bolt head resides, then run with that. All tightening/loosening is done with the rear bolt. Once loosened, merely adjust the loose nut on the threaded rod for your desired tilt, then tighten the rear bolt again.

McMaster-Carr sells metric threaded rod (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-rods/=sp3haw) in a range of materials (Scroll down the page to see the metric selections). If you're not sure of the thread pitch, bring the existing bolt to any good bike shop or mechanic; they should have a thread pitch gauge. Some of the better hardware stores have a little gauge hanging around which you can thread your bolt into, identifying it's thread pitch. Alternatively, bring the same bolt to your nearest hardware store and lay the threads against a bolt they have in stock. If they mesh perfectly, that's the pitch you need for your threaded rod and nut.

In fact, you might get lucky here: Search "metric screws" on the McMaster-Carr web site. They've got some seriously long metric screws. Your limiting factor is going to be the bolt head diameter because in your photo it looks like the bolt head fits in a recessed area. Measure yours with a caliper and compare with the listings on the web site. You may have to reuse any washer on your existing bolt and hopefully the underside surface of your bolt is square/flat.

For instance, McMaster-Carr lists a 5x0.8mm pitch, 60mm long bolt in 316 stainless with an 8.5mm diameter socket head that takes a 4mm allen wrench.

Let the forum know if you're successful in your efforts.

[Splash]

many thanks

[Black Dog]

Have you reversed the top portion of the clamp? It looks like it is on backwards. Is it asymmetrical?

[Zoodles]

That saddle appears to rise enough at the back that level from tip to tip isn't accurate. Throw the book out and eyeball it to level (ie bring the nose down) and give it a try.

[Splash]

thanks zoodles.

i have used the hardback book method and resting a level on top. and, i am on level ground.

you are probably right. I took that photo during my adjusting and do not remember how flat/level it was at the time......


Splash

[Splash]

Have you reversed the top portion of the clamp? It looks like it is on backwards. Is it asymmetrical?

good question.

I think the top portion of the clamp can only go in one way. I will take some more photos of the clamp itself and post them up..

SPlash

[rain dogs]

That saddle appears to rise enough at the back that level from tip to tip isn't accurate. Throw the book out and eyeball it to level (ie bring the nose down) and give it a try.

That is not how Selle SMP saddles are intended to be set-up. (Not saying that may not work for some people, but even then I have my doubts)

The saddle is designed to have a extreme concave shape to cup the rider. It shouldn't be horizontal across the center, nor should the rails be horizontal.The "tail" shouldn't be "up" in respect to the rest.

The rails are designed with slope so that as you slide the saddle forward and back to adjust set-back, the effective saddle height doesn't change, whereas with horizontal rails, as you increase the set-back you increase the BB to top distance. That's also why the nose is bent down, so it isn't pointing upwards and catching on your shorts. The sloping rails is a problem with that seatpost Splash has because that post is likely designed with horizontal/nearly horizontal rails in mind... the standard.

This is not the correct neutral position (rails are horizontal, center is horizontal):

http://www.watsonfx.com/vaya_wtb.jpg

This IS the correct neutral position: (rails are extremely sloped, tail and nose are "high points" on the level. The rider sits in the "cup" of the saddle, like a person in a hammock (as an analogy). It's also why the wings are so aggressively sloped.. to prevent resistance of getting in the drops or when leaning forward. Same concept as wing-flex on a Fizik, but different design solution.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w84/trs_album/DSCF0026.jpg

[Splash]

excellent Rain Dogs!

that really sucks if i have a seatpost that cannot accommodate a saddle like S M P. !

Can I acquire any aftermarket top seat post to better accommodate the S M P saddle?

I am not too keen on being driven into a corner by selecting a certain saddle i do not like but can only fit on this seat post.


Splash

[Splash]

Have you reversed the top portion of the clamp? It looks like it is on backwards. Is it asymmetrical?

some more photos of the seat post clamp - as promised...


splash

[kramnnim]

Seems like you could get longer bolt without much trouble. Looks like you need an M6? Though it won't solve the issue with the way it clamps the rails...

http://torontocycles.com/Selling/Titanium_Bolts.html

[Black Dog]

some more photos of the seat post clamp - as promised...


splash

A coupe things.

1. The clamp is symmetrical and installed correctly.

2. It looks like you have 2 washers on the longer bolt. Are there two washers on the shorter bolt? You may be able to remove the thicker washer and get the extra length you need. The threads need not go past the top of the barrel nut they just need to be close to the top. It looks like it is only one or two threads away since the nut is not threaded all the way due to the chamfer in the hole. It looks like the thickness of the washer.

3. Don't worry about the way the clamp sits on the rails. Seriously, as long as you do not over torque the clamp you will be fine.

[Splash]

thanks a lot guys.

Both washers removed on the front bolt and now have enough purchase on the thread inside the accommodating lock nut to be secure.

I am now able to achieve a level profile on my saddle with to option to finese the angle on future rides...

i will still aim to acquire a longer bolt with a bit more thread so i can re-install those spring washers..

Splash

[bicycletricycle]

Longer bolts can be found at mcmastercarr.com

If its m6 I may even have one

[Splash]

thanks bicycletricycle.

I will be taking the bike for a another ride tomorrow morning (Australian time) with bike now setup.

I will then remove the bolt and take it to a fastener store some 3 hours drive from where i live...to determine thread, etc..

What length bolt do you have ? Just so that I know for comparison to my existing bolt.

Splash

[bicycletricycle]

I think I have some 100mm long 6x1mm bolts.

[rain dogs]

excellent Rain Dogs!

that really sucks if i have a seatpost that cannot accommodate a saddle like S M P. !


Looks like you almost have it sorted.

If you have a mate who owns a Thomson post you may be able to try swapping out the clamps to see if they fit. It appears to be based on the same design, but the Thomson has the more ideal rail coverage.

Like Black Dog says, it's likely not something that won't pass, just be careful with torque, and I guess consider rider (your) weight. I'm sure it'll be fine. The only reason I brought it up is because they are carbon rails right? Again... I dunno, it'll more than likely be fine.

But this may also swap in, provided the radius is the same for the bottom rail clamp:

http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mwhVmVv5mmZ8YnRD9srC9bQ.jpg

[Splash]

thanks again.

yes, carbon rails.

i weigh 194 lbs (88kg).

is this weight ok / safe for this setup?

splash