Pulling Threads....the unraveling of the forum?

[William]

I find it interesting that the thread that was started by a very happy and excited gentleman about his new custom Zanconato build was pulled? How many times do we read posts/threads about peoples Richard Sachs, Pegs, Spectrum, Kirk's etc...build experiences? What about folks chiming in who already own those builders wares and want to congratulate them on choosing that particular builder? What about forumites who ask questions about the build process, specs, paint choices and the reasoning behind the choices? What about advice on gruppos, wheels, tires and other bits to round out the custom builds being talked about. We've seen it hundreds of times on this forum about builders other then Serotta. So what gives with the persistent pulling of Zanconato threads, and pm requests to not talk too much about it?

I understand your concern about what was termed to me as "Gorilla marketing" in one of your pm requests. But the people who have talked about Zanks are long time forum folks with no history of constantly trying to "market" particular products. Does Zank have a small but vocal following? Yes, but in the history of this forum, no more, and absolutely less so then all the talk and followers of Sachs, Peg's, Spectrums, Kirk's and other quality builders. If you had a problem with the posting of a website address, you should have just pulled the post, not the entire thread. One long time forumite asked if there was an address, another long time forumite answered buy posting it. Again, you should have pulled the post, not the entire thread. A warning about posting addresses would have sufficed IMO. Now you have an excited newbie wondering what the "F" happened.


Climbing off my soap box.

I can't wait until my build gets under way. Stay tuned.


William

[SamIAm]

If Serotta was still in the business of making lugged steel bicycles, I could understand. But, they made a business decision to stop selling the CSI. It probably made good business sense too. It's not like I would go looking for lugged steel and end up with Titanium Carbon Fiber hybrids. Although, I am sure they are top notch if you like that sort of thing.

I recently bought a used CSI off of this forum by the way.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . William describes, a simple reminder that posting web sites for other builders is not allowed would have sufficed. Granted, this IS part of the forum user's agreement, as quoted below.

<<You may not advertise other websites, via posts, PMs, or signatures. The purpose of this rule is to prevent careless spammers from abusing our forum. This also is intended to prevent posts of a competitive nature. These posts will be edited or deleted, with or without notice, and the members may be banned.>>

The motivation behind this rule is clear, but it ends up being a caution only, since it is practically unenforceable. A mental image comes to mind of Serotta Andrew's head exploding from boredom as he spends yet another night eavesdropping on tedious PM's.

Coming down on a new member this way seems a slight bit heavy-handed, IMHO.

BBD

[H.Frank Beshear]

Sorry folks but I'll have to disagree. Some the posts about Zanks bikes and frames have bordered on being way over the line as far as the forum agreement goes. If you disagree and some of you will that is your right as for pulling the thread that is Serottas right and should be. It's not "our" forum it's Ben's and we are all here because of his largesse. I'll get of my soapbox now. Frank

[Hysbrian]

Sorry folks but I'll have to disagree. Some the posts about Zanks bikes and frames have bordered on being way over the line as far as the forum agreement goes. If you disagree and some of you will that is your right as for pulling the thread that is Serottas right and should be. It's not "our" forum it's Ben's and we are all here because of his largesse. I'll get of my soapbox now. Frank

Do you have an example? I was shocked to read William's post about how the thread got moved. As someone new to the fourm I would have never though that Serotta would mange the posts so strictly. I would have thought that an talk about custom builds would be good for Serrotta as it shows that people have a gaining interest in their market.
...now I'm going to get kicked off...

[93legendti]

Here: we have been thru this before:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=10008&highlight=threads

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=10884&highlight=threads

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=11614&highlight=threads

[e-RICHIE]

Here: we have been thru this before:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=10008&highlight=threads

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=10884&highlight=threads

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=11614&highlight=threads


i found this chestnut buried in the third link:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=130538&postcount=6

[dirtdigger88]

Im just bummed that the steroid thread got pulled before I could get my fix

Jason

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . posted by the administrator would go a long way toward forestalling threads like this one. At least for me, it's much easier understanding why a thread may have been pulled if someone simply tells me why. Things simply "disappearing" leaves the situation open to rampant speculation, which usually ends up creating more dissatisfaction than the original situation ever warranted.

Communication from the Administrator to forum members would seem to be the key, IMHO.

BBD

[e-RICHIE]

Communication from the Administrator to forum members would seem to be the key, IMHO.

BBD

way to co-opt the urbane acronym yo atmo.

[Andreu]

I see quite a difference in the way threads are treated or responded to (not just by Serotta but also by the forum thought police). It seems like some folk can get away with quite a lot and others not. As an example, E-richie, in my honest opinion (english for imho), is the epitome of how one should conduct oneself in such matters.
A

[Smiley]

William , I can understand your being upset . Try to view the thread ( I have not read the whole thread before it was pulled ) from Serotta's stand point or better yet from their dealers stand point. I have sent many a client to the website to ask for reviews of Serotta's products just to ease my clients concerns that the bike I am suggesting will work for their style of use. Along the way maybe my client gets side tracked by a thread like the one that was pulled . I am not saying that's happened to me but maybe it happens to someone else. I am open to everything bicycle but in all honesty Serotta as a company and product line has been very good to me and I respect their people who pay to allow us to play in their internet play pen.

[93legendti]

i found this chestnut buried in the third link:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=130538&postcount=6


Let's roll!

[Johny]

So what gives with the persistent pulling of Zanconato threads, and pm requests to not talk too much about it?

William

???
I can still search and find many Zanconato threads posted by you and others.

[William]

Sorry folks but I'll have to disagree.....

Frank, I see no difference between posts about Zanconato's, and other people's posts pushing the myriad of other custom builders they like on the forum.

i found this chestnut buried in the third link:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpo...538&postcount=6

"e", I understand your point, but I think you would feel differently if posts that mentioned your builds started getting pulled. With all due respect to you and your work, you've received way more press (kudos, recommendations, build summaries etc...) about your work on this forum then any other builder. I think that's fine and good. It just starts looking like there's a "your in, your out" mentality when it comes to builders on this forum. Sure Serotta can do what they like, it's their forum. But I think it runs contrary to what people think this forum is about. It's always been considered an open forum to discuss Serotta, and other bike related topics. What draws a lot of people here is it's seeming openness and wealth of info, access to knowledgeable people, breadth of topics, and key people in the biz...not just Serotta. So, call me crazy if I don't like what appears to be selective censorship.

This forum has so far been pretty good at policing itself. So far it's not to the point of some other forums with zealot administrators who delete opinions they don't like, or even change peoples posts to distort what they are trying to say. I don't think it will go that far. I do believe that openness has been one of the keys to this forums success IMHO. What it needs is consistancy* in enforcing what ever Serotta wants its rules to be.



William


*The proper word pointed out to me from a fellow forumite. :cool:

[93legendti]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/forumdisplay.php?f=14

[OldDog]

I do not feel anyone owe's anyone an explination. We are in Ben's house, at Ben's party. Let's be gratefull for that and move on.

[e-RICHIE]

William , I can understand your being upset . Try to view the thread ( I have not read the whole thread before it was pulled ) from Serotta's stand point or better yet from their dealers stand point. I have sent many a client to the website to ask for reviews of Serotta's products just to ease my clients concerns that the bike I am suggesting will work for their style of use. Along the way maybe my client gets side tracked by a thread like the one that was pulled . I am not saying that's happened to me but maybe it happens to someone else. I am open to everything bicycle but in all honesty Serotta as a company and product line has been very good to me and I respect their people who pay to allow us to play in their internet play pen.


i'll try to stay detached, if that is humanly possible yo,
but sending a non-forumite cum potential client to this
place in order to do research seems inane to me. if the
purpose of the forum is to act as an infomercial rather
than a community in which a broader range of topics
is discussed, that seems kinda' incestuous.

if you want to hook a client into the brand, hook him
based on your enthusiam. infect the cat. this is a forum,
not an owner's group.

ps if you don't hear from me soon, that
means i am in the trunk of the car atmo.

[e-RICHIE]

<snipped>..."e", I understand your point, but I think you would feel differently if posts that mentioned your builds started getting pulled. With all due respect to you and your work, you've received way more press (kudos, recommendations, build summaries etc...) about your work on this forum then any other builder. I think that's fine and good. It just starts looking like there's a "your in, your out" mentality when it comes to builders on this forum. <cut>


don't make this about me yo - i'm a major zanc fan and
have duly propped him and other peers on my nextwave
page (find the link yourself imho). i am on your side and i feel
your discomfort with this issue.

[OldDog]

if you don't hear from me soon, that
means i am in the trunk of the car atmo.[/I]


If ya find yerself in the river, we will miss ya. Tell yer wife I got dibbs to purchase your jigs :D

[William]

don't make this about me yo - i'm a major zanc fan and
have duly propped him and other peers on my nextwave
page (find the link yourself imho). i am on your side and i feel
your discomfort with this issue.

"e", I'm not trying to make it about you. Like I said, I'm fine & good with it. I was just trying to point out that I find it ridicules that someone has their panties in a bunch about a builder who in the grand scheme of the forum has next to zero press in comparison to others.


William


PS: Case in point. Consistancy. Blatent advertising tolerated.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=14945

[davids]

ps if you don't hear from me soon, that
means i am in the trunk of the car atmo.
What kind of car? I like the trunk of my Acura a lot!

[Kevan]

Are you telling me I've been running all around this here place, footloose and fancy free, and now I'm hearing there are trapdoors?

Gulp!

(Sorry. I had to insert some levity during this awakening. Know not to invite me to a funeral.)

[William]

Are you telling me I've been running all around this here place, footloose and fancy free, and now I'm hearing there are trapdoors?

Gulp!

(Sorry. I had to insert some levity during this awakening. Know not to invite me to a funeral.)


Hey, I just calls em likes I sees them. ;)


William

[Kevan]

ps if you don't hear from me soon, that
means i am in the trunk of the car atmo.

Hope it ain't Joe Pesci's.

[Serotta_James]

Don't read into this too much. I made a mistake when doing some forum maintenance last night and accidentally religated that thread to oblivion.
Be gentle with me, I've driven about 1500 miles in the last 48 hours.

[Tom]

Be gentle with me, I've driven about 1500 miles in the last 48 hours.

And apparently e-Richie in the trunk was pretty distracting because he wouldn't stop yelling and thumping on the back seat.

Heh heh.

[dirtdigger88]

And apparently e-Richie in the trunk was pretty distracting because he wouldn't stop yelling and thumping on the back seat.

Heh heh.


http://images.ibsys.com/2003/0623/2288735_200X150.jpg

details at 10-

Jason

[William]

Don't read into this too much. I made a mistake when doing some forum maintenance last night and accidentally religated that thread to oblivion.
Be gentle with me, I've driven about 1500 miles in the last 48 hours.


James,

If the thread was deleted by mistake, then I apologize for getting peeved about it. In light of what happened previously with the behind the scenes pm's regarding the main point of my first post on this thread, one could understand how I came to that conclusion. I'm sorry for jumping off.


I do think there is still a point about consistency here though. But maybe that's for another time.

Best regards,

William

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . we grab 'im, tie him up, and let William drag him behind his new Zanconato! ;)

BBD

[William]

. . . we grab 'im, tie him up, and let William drag him behind his new Zanconato! ;)

BBD

:cool:



William ;)

[Climb01742]

all in all, i think serotta james, and serotta as a company and man, are amazingly tolerant about what gets posted here. we should chill, maybe? :D

[e-RICHIE]

all in all, i think serotta james, and serotta as a company and man, are amazingly tolerant about what gets posted here. we should chill, maybe? :D


word

[manet]

tell me that ain't your car's deodorizer

Attached Images

[abqhudson]

This is a Serotta forum. Some seem to forget that.

Jim

[manet]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v32/tsunamimegan/littlebunnyfoofoo.jpg

[Bruce K]

Let's pull William and his Zanconato behind James' Serotta van!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Or not...... :D

BK

[Bruce K]

BURN THE WITCH !!!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

;)

BK

[William]

Let's pull William and his Zanconato behind James' Serotta van!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Or not...... :D

BK

Let's put BruceK in the back of Serotta James's van with William and his Zanconato and head for the nearest pub! :banana: :banana: :beer:


William ;)

[dirtdigger88]

Let's put BruceK in the back of Serotta James's van with William and his Zanconato and head for the nearest pub! :banana: :banana: :beer:


William ;)

good call

http://www.winterthur.com/pho_cont_wild_2004_bike_van.jpg

bikes dont fair well against vans- even yours

Jason

[manet]

http://www.zengrrl.com/grfx/blogpix/runway-jay.jpg

[manet]

http://www.markov.baikal.ru/keep/beg/finish3.jpg

[Serotta PETE]

OK,,, I will never be accused of being UN-biased as it relates to SEROTTA....

But I do not know another FORUM that is as OPEN about product (theirs and others) as the SEROTTA team. This is my opinion, but I think it is also shared by many others.

Can anyone name another bike mft that supports a forum like this and is open to most all "non personal attack" entries.

As to one builder being in the "inner circle" and another being "on the outs" I do not see this either. Richard and David (and even Tom) add to the the forum and are also very respective of what they do and do not say as it relates to anything self promoting.

As to the thread you mention (William) I mean no disrespect, but if it is personal in nature, let me suggest you call Andrew or James (on PM them). After exchanging information and concerns I think you will come back and agree that there was no censorship involved.

If I have mis-understood something or mis-stated anything please e-mail me at pmckeon@bellsouth.net.

Thanks PETE DRINKS are on me at the PUB!!!

[ergott]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v32/tsunamimegan/littlebunnyfoofoo.jpg

That's just not right. No wonder you don't imbed the pic instead of the link.

[manet]

That's just not right. No wonder you don't imbed the pic instead of the link.

it's all 4 U man, all 4 your safety...

[dirtdigger88]

that link in wrong-

Jason

[William]

OK,,, I will never be accused of being UN-biased as it relates to SEROTTA....

But I do not know another FORUM that is as OPEN about product (theirs and others) as the SEROTTA team. This is my opinion, but I think it is also shared by many others.

Can anyone name another bike mft that supports a forum like this and is open to most all "non personal attack" entries.

As to one builder being in the "inner circle" and another being "on the outs" I do not see this either. Richard and David (and even Tom) add to the the forum and are also very respective of what they do and do not say as it relates to anything self promoting.

As to the thread you mention (William) I mean no disrespect, but if it is personal in nature, let me suggest you call Andrew or James (on PM them). After exchanging information and concerns I think you will come back and agree that there was no censorship involved.

If I have mis-understood something or mis-stated anything please e-mail me at pmckeon@bellsouth.net.

Thanks PETE DRINKS are on me at the PUB!!!

Pete, I have already apologized publicly and privately for jumping to conclusions about the thread being deleted. The "conclusion" was based on previous pm's I received from admin to "tone down" my talk about Zanconato. At the time I thought it was unfair in light of the numerous posts and threads about other builders that were, and had been posted. The deletion of the last "Z" thread, I thought, was related to the previous requests. I was just informed a short time ago (less then an hour) that indeed "warnings" were sent to others to ask that they tone down their postings toward their builder of choice (or the builder themselves were asked). I was unaware of this, and had no way of knowing that it was a consistent request across the board, and not singling me or my builder of choice out. As I stated earlier in the thread, I was looking for consistency, and apparently, it was being consistently applied behind the scenes. So, I'm back to being a happy clam.

If you don't mind, I'll buy the red at the next get together we both attend. :beer:


William

[slowgoing]

Some people's panties are more prone to bunching than others'.

[dirtdigger88]

Some people's panties are more prone to bunching than others'.

thats why I like comando-

Jason

[William]

Thong's are nice.


William ;)

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . from admninistrators to the forum population when an issue like this arises would prevent many of these misunderstandings.

BBD

[Ozz]

BURN THE WITCH !!!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

;)

BK
.

[PanTerra]

way to co-opt the urbane acronym yo atmo.
AWGTHTGTATA

[Kevan]

Thong's are nice.


William ;)

You haven't seen'm at their worst.

[ergott]

You haven't seen'm at their worst.


Cue Manet...

[ergott]

Wow four pages and no reference to "pulling out" Are we getting more mature?

[dirtdigger88]

Wow four pages and no reference to "pulling out" Are we getting more mature?

we dont need to "pull out"

http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/condom-used.jpg

so - no we are not getting more mature

Jason

[Serotta PETE]

[QUOTE=
If you don't mind, I'll buy the red at the next get together we both attend. :beer:


William[/QUOTE]


We will both bring RED and hide it from Flydhest.. :beer: :beer:


You coming to DC in MAY???


Pete

[Sandy]

We will both bring RED and hide it from Flydhest.. :beer: :beer:


You coming to DC in MAY???


Pete

I doubt it. He is too afraid of me. :)



Sandy

[Serotta PETE]

I doubt it. He is too afraid of me. :)

I have my bungee cord for you to pull you up the hills.. I will bring an extra one if William needs it...YOU will sit back and drink while I fly up those inclines. Since I do not drink red wine it is more for you two....


Sandy


That is how I read it....PETE

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . threatening--as long as you stand upwind. ;)

BBD

[Climb01742]

Thong's are nice.


William ;)

as a participant or spectator?

[dbrk]

AWGTHTGTATA

Apparently, YES!

I'm reverting to Latin again. These acronyms are killing me. I get so darn few of them and then feel like some idiot who is either not paying attention (entirely possible), is uncool _and_ dumb (even more possible), and then mildly ashamed/embarrassed not to ask (downright puerile). There is hope for me...Experientia docet stultos.

dbrk

[saab2000]

I do not feel anyone owe's anyone an explination. We are in Ben's house, at Ben's party. Let's be gratefull for that and move on.

WORD!!!!!



PS - "explanation" is spelled 'explanation' .....

PPS - and "owe's" in this context is 'owes'.....

PPPS - sorry for being a dork.

PPPPS - Yes, I am in Erie, PA tonight with a couple MGDs in me. Got a stick shaker on short final that did not scare the poop outta me but shocked me. The wind was mega...... One dude said, "Great job!!" but I felt like s*** anyway.

PPPPPS - Haven't been home in 10 days. I will get home on Sunday morning to a pile of Record components from eBay for my Serotta. I was out looking at Allentown, PA, where they evidently don't think I earn enough money to rent an effin' apartment at $866 per month. They might be able to take my application and shove it up their ............ airline pilot doesn't earn enough money to rent in Macungie, PA. Sorry. Back to the point - This is Serotta's party and they/he make(s) the rules.

[Sandy]

Apparently, YES!

I'm reverting to Latin again. These acronyms are killing me. I get so darn few of them and then feel like some idiot who is either not paying attention (entirely possible), is uncool _and_ dumb (even more possible), and then mildly ashamed/embarrassed not to ask (downright puerile). There is hope for me...Experientia docet stultos.

dbrk

I know a little bit of English, no Latin, and can write in the sand. I am constantly humbled by the vast knowledge that forum members possess about almost any subject mentioned. But you are part of the cause. You know more words that I don't know than words that I do know. You even seem to string the words together to make perfect sense (for the words that I do know).

I am, however, the forum's resident expert on rubber duckies. :)


Quack Quack

[manet]

Apparently, YES!

I'm reverting to Latin again. These acronyms are killing me. I get so darn few of them and then feel like some idiot who is either not paying attention (entirely possible), is uncool _and_ dumb (even more possible), and then mildly ashamed/embarrassed not to ask (downright puerile). There is hope for me...Experientia docet stultos.

dbrk

my high school latin teacher's favorite
word was puerile _ especially with boys.

[keno]

What's an ARCONYM anyhow, a generic gas station?

Incidentally, the string of letters that some use on this forum are more accurately described as examples of initialism. IMHACO, a decent acronym should result in a string of letters susceptible to being pronounced, e.g. radar or NATO, but, as I said, that is IMHACO.

keno

[manet]

What's an ARCONYM anyhow, a generic gas station?

Incidentally, the string of letters that some use on this forum are more accurately described as examples of initialism. IMHACO, a decent acronym should result in a string of letters susceptible to being pronounced, e.g. radar or NATO, but, as I said, that is IMHACO.

keno

http://lrrc3.sas.upenn.edu/popcult/cartoons/anthropo/homework/toopoor.JPG

[djg]

Apparently, YES!

I'm reverting to Latin again....Experientia docet stultos.

dbrk

Does it count as regression if it wasn't your childhood?

[H.Frank Beshear]

Saab does a stick shaker cause sphincter pucker. :D Glad your down on Terra firma enjoy the beers sounds like you earned em. Frank

[Skrawny]

Don't read into this too much. I made a mistake when doing some forum maintenance last night and accidentally religated that thread to oblivion.
Be gentle with me, I've driven about 1500 miles in the last 48 hours.

Glad to see you made it back safely.
-s

[Kahuna]

Douglas,

The amount of knowledge you've forgotten can fill more than our collective skulls can hold, so don't let a bunch of silly acronyms get you down. :)

And when in doubt, you can always pm e-richie for some instant acronym enlightenment yo.

Apparently, YES!

I'm reverting to Latin again. These acronyms are killing me. I get so darn few of them and then feel like some idiot who is either not paying attention (entirely possible), is uncool _and_ dumb (even more possible), and then mildly ashamed/embarrassed not to ask (downright puerile). There is hope for me...Experientia docet stultos.

dbrk

[Too Tall]

That ended well.
Kahuna has spoken.

[Grant McLean]

Douglas,

The amount of knowledge you've forgotten can fill more than our collective skulls can hold, so don't let a bunch of silly acronyms get you down. :)

And when in doubt, you can always pm e-richie for some instant acronym enlightenment yo.

Or find a 15 year old with text message experience (that shouldn't be hard)
and there is always....

http://netforbeginners.about.com/cs/netiquette101/a/abbreviations.htm
http://www.netlingo.com/emailsh.cfm
http://rats2u.com/calendar_ef/calendar_email1.htm
http://www.montecarlo.demon.co.uk/misc/e-mail.htm

or just google it.

-g

[Too Tall]

01001111 01110010 00100000 01100110 01101001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100001 00100000 00110001 00110101 00100000 01111001 01100101 01100001 01110010 00100000 01101111 01101100 01100100 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01110100 01100101 01111000 01110100 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110011 01110011 01100001 01100111 01100101 00100000 01100101 01111000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01101001 01100101 01101110 01100011 01100101 00100000 00101000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101111 01110101 01101100 01100100 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100101 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110010 01100100 00101001 00001101 00001010 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01110111 01100001 01111001 01110011

:rolleyes:

[DreaminJohn]

http://netforbeginners.about.com/cs/netiquette101/a/abbreviations.htm
http://www.netlingo.com/emailsh.cfm
http://rats2u.com/calendar_ef/calendar_email1.htm
http://www.montecarlo.demon.co.uk/misc/e-mail.htm

or just google it.



I still can't find "atmo". :)

[e-RICHIE]

http://netforbeginners.about.com/cs/netiquette101/a/abbreviations.htm
http://www.netlingo.com/emailsh.cfm
http://rats2u.com/calendar_ef/calendar_email1.htm
http://www.montecarlo.demon.co.uk/misc/e-mail.htm

or just google it.



I still can't find "atmo". :)

save this link:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=172905&postcount=78
it's the last word yo.

[Serpico]

Let's roll!


:) you have a good sense of humor