What is the minimum mileage/time you'd be able to justify for a new bike?

[MattTuck]

We've all been over the n+1 game before, and aside from just acquiring bikes for acquisition's sake, how do you justify a new bike to yourself?

Is it the expectation that you'll ride it x hours per year? x miles per year?

Is there a more complicated formula based on value? Less than $1/mile/year?

[FlashUNC]

Mine's more in variation and trying to avoid duplication. Whether that's material, usage, etc.

My mental gymnastics for justification can get a bit fine though. Currently have two steel bikes -- one filet-brazed MAX, the other lugged Deda Zero Uno. One has room for 28s and a relaxed geometry for the rough stuff, the other room for 25s and a bit twitchy handling.

That's enough of a difference to me, though they're essentially the same bike.

[oldpotatoe]

We've all been over the n+1 game before, and aside from just acquiring bikes for acquisition's sake, how do you justify a new bike to yourself?

Is it the expectation that you'll ride it x hours per year? x miles per year?

Is there a more complicated formula based on value? Less than $1/mile/year?

No formula, see bike, frame, really nice, want, can afford, buy...

I have a spare MXLeader, don't ride it all. I have a really nice Ciocc, don't ride that at all.

[witcombusa]

We've all been over the n+1 game before, and aside from just acquiring bikes for acquisition's sake, how do you justify a new bike to yourself?

Is it the expectation that you'll ride it x hours per year? x miles per year?

Is there a more complicated formula based on value? Less than $1/mile/year?


No


I want, I buy.

[eddief]

If it ain't getting ridden for whatever reason and it just sits in the garage, that is an excuse to sell it and open that slot. My mom always said any more than 4 bikes is extravagant. Sometimes the slot stays open a long time, sometimes fatter tires, another material, a great deal "forces" the purchase of something new.

I do one kind of riding = fast, smooth, club, or alone. All 4 bikes use nearly identical drive trains but 3 different materials for frames, 2 different materials for forks, and 2 kinds of brakes, and one has couplers for travel.

For the first time in long time, I just can't fathom what n+1 could be, but have said that about 30 times in the last 10 years.

[merlinmurph]

If you use it at all, that's good enough.

[wallymann]

zero miles -- "want badly" is sufficient rationale! ;-)

[jamesutiopia]

I don't do a marginal cost analysis-- my favorite bike is not the nicest one, the one I ride most often, or the one that is cheapest per mile. I decide whether to acquire n+1 based on whether I think it's going to add a worthwhile ride/experience.

Examples of bikes that are awesome but don't get a ton of miles:

Tandem for riding with spouse
Tandem for riding with little ones
Gravel bike, even though it's kind of a hassle to plan routes
Brompton, for biking in places and at times when it otherwise wouldn't happen, and biking with visitors (folding bikes are one-size-fits-all)
Track bike, because I never regret a day at the track
Backup bike, in a time of need
Snow/slush/rain bike, because it's never too early to start the season, and riding a heavy bike off-season never hurts in-season form. I still have mine, even though I now live in a place where it rarely rains and never snows!

[christian]

I do it by usage envelope:

Road riding: Colnago Extreme Power
Road riding/rain road riding/dirt road riding/all other kinds of riding: Hampsten Strada Bianca
Cyclocross: Zanconato Cross
Mountain bike: 2003 Cannondale Jekyll

I'd like to upgrade the Jekyll and buy a Brompton, but other than that, I don't plan to add any new bikes.

[dekindy]

I road bike only and regularly, at least 3,600 miles per year. I think anyone in this position can justify having a back up bike of excellent quality. Serotta Legend is main and Waterford steel as backup. I had a frame crack that was discovered only 3 weeks prior to the Ride Across Indiana that I do annually so I never want to be in the position of not having a quality backup ride. Beyond that having more bikes is discretionary, not to be justified.

[nooneline]

There are a lot of rad bikes out there.
Can't own 'em all.
I have bikes for specific purposes.

[ThaRiddla]

If the new bike makes you excited to ride (again), then it's justified.

I do agree with some of the other posts about freeing up one slot for another. To me, there's no sense in having bikes that don't get ridden. My overly-frugal self sees that as equity that can be put into the bikes that currently get ridden or getting others to a place that can be ridden.

[eippo1]

You'd have to ask my bikes. They'd all have a different answer. My cross bike is lonely for 11 months of the year, my mountain bike is ignored for weeks at a time and then beaten upon for a couple days in a row usually, and my road bikes all get a fair amount of attention.

Of course, if you ask my Bianchi 928, I just couldn't stay away from riding and tinkering and pulled a Lenny; so now she has to get sent away for "fixing."

[carpediemracing]

I don't use usage rates to figure out if I want a bike or not. However low usage bikes typically get set aside in terms of "time allocated for maintenance" etc.

Since I need a weird size bike if I could afford more bikes in that size I'd get them, even if they were meant for the same purpose. I think of things I'd change on my current two same-geometry bikes, and the second of those bikes was a progression of the first. I have more ideas on what I'd like to try on the frame and I'll order a "version three" frame when I can.

[joep2517]

I road bike only and regularly, at least 3,600 miles per year. I think anyone in this position can justify having a back up bike of excellent quality. Serotta Legend is main and Waterford steel as backup. I had a frame crack that was discovered only 3 weeks prior to the Ride Across Indiana that I do annually so I never want to be in the position of not having a quality backup ride. Beyond that having more bikes is discretionary, not to be justified.

This is me. I want at least one quality backup.

Since I have an illness and see way too many cool bikes out here, I subscribe to the N+1 rule, but my wife follows the N+1=3 rule. I like my current living conditions so I default to her concept.

[tmf]

I think you may have accidentally posted to the wrong forum :)

Mine is mostly about making sure I have all my bases covered. The only two things on my wish list now are a fat bike for the winter and a track bike next year. I may end up wanting to go with a CX bike with discs at some point, but it's not a real big urge yet.

With my C50 and 585, I have no thoughts about getting another road bike. If something happens to one of them, I would start looking for a replacement.

[paredown]

I'm a born-again cyclist--raced when I was young, and then other things occupied my time in my 30s and 40s.

When I came back to cycling, I was curious about everything that had gone on while I wasn't paying attention--starting with indexed shifting, oversized tubing etc, etc.

So I feel like I am working my way through a couple of decades of cycling innovation, one bike at a time, trying things out, and seeing what all the fuss is/was about. It's a bit like serial dating when you are single, looking for the perfect match.

For me, a bike has to fit, and be something I have not tried before--a pretty low bar, really and kept in check only because of some severe budget constraints that started with the 'Great Recession' and have continued. So I have bought some 'hurt' bikes to continue my experimentation, and dream of better days ahead.

[torquer]

Is there a more complicated formula based on value?
Is there an accounting version of fuzzy logic? (Or is that just keeping two sets of books?)
The two bikes I use for the most number of rides (fixed and ancient MTB commuter) are the cheapest, by far. My most expensive (boutique brand road racer) gets the most mileage, but I would do just as many miles on the 2001 Postal Service Trek if that was my only option. (As things stand, that's my weather bike.)

I could justify that N+1th bike if it led to riding I wouldn't otherwise do, like trails or gravel, as long as those rides didn't totally displace other rides I'd be doing anyway. But I don't see that happening until retirement.:mad:

[OtayBW]

We've all been over the n+1 game before, and aside from just acquiring bikes for acquisition's sake, how do you justify a new bike to yourself?

Is it the expectation that you'll ride it x hours per year? x miles per year?

Is there a more complicated formula based on value? Less than $1/mile/year?
I don't understand the question! :confused: :rolleyes:

[MattTuck]

I don't understand the question! :confused: :rolleyes:

I know, right!

Well, I guess it comes down to this: I'd really love to pick up a 29er hardtail mountain bike to replace my 26 spec stumpjumper from 1998. My current bike works, but I haven't been riding it as much as I'd hoped, despite living near the trailhead of 30+ miles of mountain bike trails.

So, do I say, "well, if I get a new bike, I'll be more likely to ride it and be excited, and so it will be worth it" ? or do I say, "no, you haven't ridden the current mountain bike enough to justify a new one... even if the new one has 3 more! (26 to 29)"

And on top of that, I'd really like to pick up an all purpose/fendered/rain/cyclocross type bike, but I'm not sure that I'll ride it enough to justify it.

[biker72]

Deal with wife:
Ride all the bikes I own. No unused frames...etc.
I can have as many that will fit in my office. (3)

[endosch2]

I have three main bikes, a Serotta ti HSG, a Raleigh Militis carbon 15.2 pound race bike, and a cannondale cx 9 cross bike. They all get at least 500 miles of riding per year, and over enough years get will get down to less than .50 cents a mile. Cycling is way cheaper than golf or other sports. My next bike will be a tri-bike. Looking at a cervelo.

[MattTuck]

Cycling is way cheaper than golf or other sports.

Oh, I like it. $/mile vs $/hole. You could ride a fleet of $10,000 bikes and cycling would still look great by comparison. Reminds me, I need to get out and play a round soon.

[endosch2]

I think the question is will you grow tired of a bike before you extract the value of its cost and for me so far the answer is hell no. That is why I will probably pull the trigger on another bike (the tri-dork bike because I am slowly becoming a tri-dork) this fall.

I keep all my bikes and stuff on equipment logs in sporttracks software so I see how much use I get from bikes, skiis, running shoes. Alpine skiing takes the cake for expensive equipment per use costs.

[christian]

or do I say, "no, you haven't ridden the current mountain bike enough to justify a new one... even if the new one has 3 more! (26 to 29)"This one. It's ok to buy a new bike because it'll be better at doing something you want to do. Buying a new bike because it's going to inspire you do more of that kind of riding seems like chasing your tail.

And on top of that, I'd really like to pick up an all purpose/fendered/rain/cyclocross type bike, but I'm not sure that I'll ride it enough to justify it.Forget the cx, and get a Hampsten Strada Bianca, like I did, and you'll end up riding it more than the regular every day road bike!

[JimmyTango]

I'm too new at the sport and way too broke to have acquired anything of real worth in the bike depth, so my strategy is simply to keep an eye out for bikes that suits my purposes and only cost a bit more than what I can sell one of my current rides for... I think I've climbed the ladder via small incremental gains over 5 bikes or so to have a decent mid-level stable with three bikes that each see 50+ miles a week.

[velotrack]

I know, right!

Well, I guess it comes down to this: I'd really love to pick up a 29er hardtail mountain bike to replace my 26 spec stumpjumper from 1998. My current bike works, but I haven't been riding it as much as I'd hoped, despite living near the trailhead of 30+ miles of mountain bike trails.

So, do I say, "well, if I get a new bike, I'll be more likely to ride it and be excited, and so it will be worth it" ? or do I say, "no, you haven't ridden the current mountain bike enough to justify a new one... even if the new one has 3 more! (26 to 29)"

And on top of that, I'd really like to pick up an all purpose/fendered/rain/cyclocross type bike, but I'm not sure that I'll ride it enough to justify it.

Don't get the fender/rain/cross bike if you're uncertain you will ride it.

On the other hand, if you see yourself going out on the trail more often with a new bike, and get excited thinking about it, do it. A new bike encouraging you to ride and get out more is a worthwhile investment, imo.

[tmf]

I went through the almost the exact same process last year. I'd been riding an '89 Fisher ProCaliber mountain bike (fully rigid) for almost 25 years. In its day, it was one of the top racing bikes. I was still quite happy with it, but was planning to start doing more mountain biking. I ended up finding a great deal on a used Niner Air 9 29" hardtail (right around $1200), and sold my ProCal frame/fork, some components and my Fisher tandem.

So what I did was "double-justify" it: I wanted to ride more offroad, so it made sense to have a better bike. And, I thought that having a "new" better bike would motivate me to get out and ride more. Well, for me, it's worked! I've been riding a lot more on the trails, and have taken the time to search & find a bunch of new places to ride. The only limiting factor has been the rain-soaked trails. I liked the Procal, but I like the Air 9 much, much more!

I know, right!

Well, I guess it comes down to this: I'd really love to pick up a 29er hardtail mountain bike to replace my 26 spec stumpjumper from 1998. My current bike works, but I haven't been riding it as much as I'd hoped, despite living near the trailhead of 30+ miles of mountain bike trails.

So, do I say, "well, if I get a new bike, I'll be more likely to ride it and be excited, and so it will be worth it" ? or do I say, "no, you haven't ridden the current mountain bike enough to justify a new one... even if the new one has 3 more! (26 to 29)"

And on top of that, I'd really like to pick up an all purpose/fendered/rain/cyclocross type bike, but I'm not sure that I'll ride it enough to justify it.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

My test is simple: does this +1 bike offer up a plausible justification that I could present to my wife without getting laughed out of the room. Whatever that justification is (different welds, different uses, searching for this frame forever...), that's the test it ultimately has to pass. And of course, the bar gets higher for the +1 as the "n" increases, so it pays to be choosy in making those requests.

[witcombusa]

I keep all my bikes and stuff on equipment logs in sporttracks software so I see how much use I get from bikes, skiis, running shoes. Alpine skiing takes the cake for expensive equipment per use costs.


You must not ski enough then. Gas is my single biggest expense. More than equipment, lift tickets (season pass), lodging, etc.

[Kirk007]

I know, right!

Well, I guess it comes down to this: I'd really love to pick up a 29er hardtail mountain bike to replace my 26 spec stumpjumper from 1998. My current bike works, but I haven't been riding it as much as I'd hoped, despite living near the trailhead of 30+ miles of mountain bike trails.

So, do I say, "well, if I get a new bike, I'll be more likely to ride it and be excited, and so it will be worth it" ? or do I say, "no, you haven't ridden the current mountain bike enough to justify a new one... even if the new one has 3 more! (26 to 29)"



I think only you can answer this. I've tried this with different outcomes. I've gone through 4 FS mountain bikes trying to convince myself to ride more etc., and it hasn't happened as (primarily) (1) I hate driving 30-40 minutes to a trailhead and (2) I hate riding a FS on road to get to a trail head. These and other reasons have lead me to accept that this just isn't my cup of tea. But, I did by a hardtail 29er and I will ride that on the road to local nontechnical trails and really like it.

Lesson: is there something that is limiting your use of a bike that can be fixed with a new bike? If so, then may well be a good investment. If its trying to convince yourself that "if my bike was just a little better I would ride it more" well I'm less convinced that works.

[d_douglas]

My finances have been the limiting factor, mostly. We had well paying jobs a few years ago and family health issues forced my wife and I to relocate close to our families. Our family income is now half what it once was (and I am a happier, if not poorer, person for it). If I still had my old salary, I might own a bike more.

That said, I do feel a sense of guilt once I hit five bikes - something seems wrong to me. I bought a Serotta Legend shortly after I received a Speedvagen (the Legend was a great price and a gorgeous frame) but I constantly felt remorse about buying it. Perhaps that was due to the proximity of the two purchases to each other.

I sold the Legend when I moved home and still have the Vagen. I still lust after other bikes, but honestly, the Vagen gives me little reason to search for anything new ---- 'cept if I came across a Look 585 for a crazy price ;)

[endosch2]

[/B]


You must not ski enough then. Gas is my single biggest expense. More than equipment, lift tickets (season pass), lodging, etc.

Ok, you are right I dont alpine ski enough. My nordic skiis get 25 uses per year but cost around 600 a pair, my alpine skiis cost 1200 but get used about 6 times a year... Bikes always pay back the most....

[Zoodles]

Horses for courses IMO.

My road and cx are used often, the mtb only for racing as parts are too expensive (and my trail access is limited).

Operating/maintenance constraints limit me from adding anymore. Between a wet and muddy spring and lots of miles this summer I feel like I'm in a continuos maintenance cycle with the associated costs.

I have a rain bike as well but that is where used parts go to die.

[weisan]

Matt-pal, here's my honest-to-God response.

I have bought and sold over 30+ bikes in the last 10 years.

Most, if not all, were done under the "instant gratification" and "don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness" category.

Today, June 27, 2014, I have two bikes that are built up and ready to ride any time.

One is my custom steel Taylor made five years ago. And the other is a fairly recent purchase, a LOOK 585. That was my first bike purchase after being sober for five years.

Do I need this bike? Hell no.
Does it make me happy? Not really.
Then why?
I reasoned that I need a backup just in case...

Really?
I mean, the fact of the matter is, I was never caught in a bind over the last five years without a bike. My Taylor had been a real trooper and answered to the call to duty every single time whenever I needed it and I have taken it across the globe to Australia and Singapore. I have ridden it in the worst of conditions. I did D2R2 on it once. It was never 'babied" and it's showing its wear. The paint peeled off in certain places, I blamed it on Paul Taylor. So overall, it looks pretty beaten up. But once you looked past its appearance, it was the single most excellent bike I had ever ridden compared to all the others. One of my favorite topics of interest to day-dream about is trying to work out a plan where i could reproduce at least 10 more copies of the exact same bike as my Taylor economically.

But again the question is: why would I want to do that??
Do I really need n+10 Taylors?

We all know the answer to that.

Variety is the spice of life...so they say.
You know what....go ahead, knock yourself silly, get as many bikes as you like....I am sticking to my Taylor. Call me stubborn...or old-fashioned...or opinionated...or whatever you want.
Come tomorrow morning, I am going to set out early at first light with my Taylor, we gonna do 60...and I already know, we are going to have a BLAST!

The last point I want to make is this. If you are able to articulate as clearly and honestly and with as much details as you can about your dream bike, and what you like to do on a bike...in the capable hands of a master framebuiler, he or she can make your dream come true and when that happens, where you hit that sweet spot, you will know it in your heart...and there's really nothing more to be improved except to enjoy every freakin' minute you have on that bike while your heart is beating and as long as you are able to haul that big sorry a$$ of yours up that next hill.

Happy ever after.

[ojingoh]

Don't get the fender/rain/cross bike if you're uncertain you will ride it.

On the other hand, if you see yourself going out on the trail more often with a new bike, and get excited thinking about it, do it. A new bike encouraging you to ride and get out more is a worthwhile investment, imo.

I'm with Velotrack.

I'm a weirdo around these parts, I really only have one bike. I took time researching what I wanted and got more or less the exact bike I wanted for a very fair price.

I have another one, but I haven't ridden it in a year. That's a lot of time to be off that bike and still consider it 'owned by me.' My #1 I ride whenever I can. When I can't ride that bike, I don't want to ride another bike. When I can ride, I always choose bike #1. The bikes are substantially different, and are ideal for different types of riding, but that's not important to me, riding is what is important.

So for me the only analysis that works is: Will I ride more than I currently am now, e.g. am I increasing my actual time riding, if I buy another bike?

For me, another bike is really only justified if it can add time to riding. If you feel like you want to 'experience' a new bike, by all means do it, it's fun. But that's not a rational approach, that's an empirical/emotional approach. Again, perfectly justifiable, but it's not rational, say like trying to calculate something.