Can't dial in this bike... Sram chain??

[Dead Man]

Howdy

I've got a bike I can't seem to dial in just right. Seems like the adjustment window is about 1/4 turn between laggy upshifting and having to coax the downshifts.

Components are clean, lubed, in good repair, and housing is new, routed correctly, and lubed up well... components are 6600 and Jagwire Pro Road. Not sure which cassette I've got on there right now- I think it's a 105. But it hit me today, staring out the window: I just installed the second cheap SRAM chain on that thing.

Think a cheap SRAM chain could cause less than perfect shifting?

[parris]

Although it's a new bike have the hanger checked for alignment. Sometimes things will get knocked just a small amount and it can drive you nuts because there's nothing that's obviously wrong.

[dave thompson]

I've never experienced shifting problems because of chain brand, I've pretty much run them all.

One often overlooked item is the upper jockey pulley on the rear derailleur. Make sure it turns freely, it won't spin much as there is some seal drag and check to see that it has noticeable side-to-side movement, about 1mm MOL. The lower pulley should spin pretty well and have no side play.

[sitzmark]

What does "cheap" mean? New/used? eBay purchase or shop purchase?
1030, 105,1070, or 1090 series? Any pins tight? Did the original Sram chain perform the same and that's why you changed?

Brand new chain out of box should not be an issue, unless it isn't "factory fresh". What is age (mileage) of cassette? Cassette wear is the more likely issue if der is in alignment and B screw is set correctly.

[fourflys]

Although it's a new bike have the hanger checked for alignment. Sometimes things will get knocked just a small amount and it can drive you nuts because there's nothing that's obviously wrong.

if it's a replaceable hanger, make sure the bolt is tight... that will throw it off every time...

[Dead Man]

What does "cheap" mean? New/used? eBay purchase or shop purchase?
1030, 105,1070, or 1090 series? Any pins tight? Did the original Sram chain perform the same and that's why you changed?

Brand new chain out of box should not be an issue, unless it isn't "factory fresh". What is age (mileage) of cassette? Cassette wear is the more likely issue if der is in alignment and B screw is set correctly.

Factory new 1051 from either REI or Performance. Replaced because it failed the no-go gauge.

if it's a replaceable hanger, make sure the bolt is tight... that will throw it off every time...

Good lookin' out! I think this is probably the one thing I hadn't checked. Just did- Alas, it's tight.

Hanger is straight, also.

[Dead Man]

I guess it's possible the cassette is getting on in age. The one that's on there is the one that's spent the most time on this bike, but I've swapped a few in and out, so I'm not actually sure how many miles it's got on it. The cogs are not sawtoothing yet, though.

[eddief]

any hangup under there? sounds like you got most of it covered. any chance the head of the cable not seated just right in the shifter. that drove me nuts one time.

[Ralph]

I would go back to basics. Double check the shift from smallest cog to next smallest cog. Make sure that stop is correct. Then on about 3-4 cogs from end, check cable adjuster to make sure the chain centers on cog. It has to be something like that. When I have a problem where the chain shifts slow, then wants to over shift, it's almost always the stop or barrel adjuster. Correct chain? (9, 10, etc)

[cinema]

This sounds dumb but make sure chain was not installed backwards. causes the exact problem you're describing (on certain chains)

make sure upper pulley and lower pulley have not been switched during maintenance.

If cassette is skipping in the middle gears the hanger may be out of alignment or chain rings might be bent. The latter could cause excess noise throughout the drive train.

[UberBike]

Check for drag in the cables. I know you said they were new, but some times pinched housing can cause delays in up shifting. If a few of the housing ends were not reamed open after cutting the drag could add up to slow shifting. also too short of a rear derailleur housing loop can cause shifting issues if the loop is effecting your B position on the rear derailleur.

[ultraman6970]

To me looks like a Derailleur hanger alignment issue.

Easy to find out if you have 2 campagnolo axles moving around, put one in the RD and the other one in the drop outs and check if are parallel by eye or using a caliper.

[CiclistiCliff]

hanger is out of alignment

or

b tension is threaded in so far the top jockey wheel can't derail the chain well/flex in chain between jockey wheel and cassette

[sitzmark]

I guess it's possible the cassette is getting on in age. The one that's on there is the one that's spent the most time on this bike, but I've swapped a few in and out, so I'm not actually sure how many miles it's got on it. The cogs are not sawtoothing yet, though.

Chasing the root cause of your tuning issue can be frustrating, but follow a logical progression and you should get there. If the old chain/cassette combo wasn't exhibiting the same issues and all you did was change the chain, then the rest of the system is still the same. Chain and cassette wear together, so you may have an interface issue going until the mating of the cassette and chain smooth out. Or ... the cassette may be worn to the point the interface will always be sloppy.

Alignment, hangers, etc. are all valid concerns, but approach it with an eye toward what you were experiencing prior to the chain replacement. If more than just the chain was replaced, then you have multiple points of variance to investigate.

No guarantee, but a chain from REI is less likely to be counterfeit or a patchwork of chain remnants someone is selling as new on eBay. Good stuff comes from eBay and bad stuff comes from eBay - just adds an extra level of scrutiny. If by "cheap" you mean the 1050 is less $$ than the 1090 series - that shouldn't make a difference. Functionally the two chains work the same. If you mean Sram makes cheap chains, then try a KMC or Shimano. Some people have a disdain for anything Sram, but I suspect the Sram branding on the chain isn't your issue. Again, depends on what you were experiencing with the last chain. If all was good and the chain was replaced only b/c it didn't pass the checker, then you have a reference point to start from.

[oldpotatoe]

Howdy

I've got a bike I can't seem to dial in just right. Seems like the adjustment window is about 1/4 turn between laggy upshifting and having to coax the downshifts.

Components are clean, lubed, in good repair, and housing is new, routed correctly, and lubed up well... components are 6600 and Jagwire Pro Road. Not sure which cassette I've got on there right now- I think it's a 105. But it hit me today, staring out the window: I just installed the second cheap SRAM chain on that thing.

Think a cheap SRAM chain could cause less than perfect shifting?

Most flexible chain when new is either a shimano 105 level chain or a KMC..I have solved more than a few shifting issues by taking off either a sram or Wipperman chain..

[oldpotatoe]

This sounds dumb but make sure chain was not installed backwards. causes the exact problem you're describing (on certain chains)

make sure upper pulley and lower pulley have not been switched during maintenance.

If cassette is skipping in the middle gears the hanger may be out of alignment or chain rings might be bent. The latter could cause excess noise throughout the drive train.

sram chains aren't directional..shimano 10s chains(and 11s) are.

[djg21]

My bet is that the cogset is worn out. You said you measured the chain with a stretch gauge. How long did you use the chain worn, before you finally checked it?

This is why you have to change chains regularly, before they show significant wear. I typically replace mine at around 1,500 miles and don't bother with a gauge. I want to be able to change wheels/cassettes without incident.

[Dead Man]

My bet is that the cogset is worn out. You said you measured the chain with a stretch gauge. How long did you use the chain worn, before you finally checked it?

This is why you have to change chains regularly, before they show significant wear. I typically replace mine at around 1,500 miles and don't bother with a gauge. I want to be able to change wheels/cassettes without incident.

I dunno. Cassette LOOKS good, to me.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/IMG_11861_zpsb47ec892.jpg

I actually gauge the chain after or before every ride. I got into the habit from winter commuting, where a chain doesn't even last 1000 miles sometimes (or didn't, before I learned how to make 'em last a lot longer with daily re-lubing and every-other-ride flushing and re-lubing). So the chain ran past the threshold for a maximum of 32 miles (length of that ride).

[oldpotatoe]

I dunno. Cassette LOOKS good, to me.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/IMG_11861_zpsb47ec892.jpg

I actually gauge the chain after or before every ride. I got into the habit from winter commuting, where a chain doesn't even last 1000 miles sometimes (or didn't, before I learned how to make 'em last a lot longer with daily re-lubing and every-other-ride flushing and re-lubing). So the chain ran past the threshold for a maximum of 32 miles (length of that ride).

Did you ride the bike with the sram chain, in spite of sluggish shifting? Only way to tell if the cogset if worn, it skips under load..

If it's not worn out, and your cables, housing, under BB guide, der. hanger, etc, are all OK..try a KMC or shimano 15 level chain..

[eddief]

then you will know if it is the cassette. If yes, you solve the problem. If no, you have an extra cassette.

[lhuerta]

A. Chain length (small-small method)
B. Der hanger alignment (checked with actual tool, not just eyeballing it)

[djg21]

There does seem to be some wear on some of the middle cogs, which is pretty typical as that where you tend to ride most. Is your chain just skipping while on a particular cog. If so, the cogset is probably done fore, despite that fact that it is really clean.

[Dead Man]

Was a poorly seated crimped ferrule. Every time I got it dialed in and took it out for a ride, the crimped ferrule would tighten a bit under cable pressure, throwing tension off.

That things in the trash and a new, non-crimped ferrule lives in it's place. Finally got through a whole ride (albeit a short one) without a single hangup. So I'm going with that.

FEELS SO NICE TO HAVE HER RUNNING SMOOTH AGAIN... man, it really stresses me out when there's something wrong with the bike. Just spend way too much damn time on it.

[eddief]

I never crimp them.

Was a poorly seated crimped ferrule. Every time I got it dialed in and took it out for a ride, the crimped ferrule would tighten a bit under cable pressure, throwing tension off.

That things in the trash and a new, non-crimped ferrule lives in it's place. Finally got through a whole ride (albeit a short one) without a single hangup. So I'm going with that.

FEELS SO NICE TO HAVE HER RUNNING SMOOTH AGAIN... man, it really stresses me out when there's something wrong with the bike. Just spend way too much damn time on it.

[k-mac]

Chain and cassette wear together, so you may have an interface issue going until the mating of the cassette and chain smooth out. Or ... the cassette may be worn to the point the interface will always be sloppy.

My first thought was this as well.

[ericssonboi]

Was a poorly seated crimped ferrule. Every time I got it dialed in and took it out for a ride, the crimped ferrule would tighten a bit under cable pressure, throwing tension off.

That things in the trash and a new, non-crimped ferrule lives in it's place. Finally got through a whole ride (albeit a short one) without a single hangup. So I'm going with that.

FEELS SO NICE TO HAVE HER RUNNING SMOOTH AGAIN... man, it really stresses me out when there's something wrong with the bike. Just spend way too much damn time on it.

I wouldn't rule out cable tension / cables since i've ran into a similar issue.
One extra turn on the rear deraileur would change the cable tension and throw it from the biggest cog to the next one up. After fiddling with limit screws for the longest time, always check your cables! I would lump in ferrules into the cable category.. Glad you got your issue resolved