Speak to me of tire width...

[paredown]

Yet another post today about someone running 32s, and possibly going down to 28s...It made me think that my desire for thin tires is an unexamined holdover from the 'old days' when all the fast guys rode narrow rims and tubs.

I've at least heard of Jan's testing of tire width, and the argument that going to a slightly wider tire may increase efficiency, and have pretty much got my mind around the idea of buying 25s when my current crop of 23s finally bite the dust (if I ever get enough time to ride and wear some out.)

So are the people who are going wider than 25s riding rough roads/trails and/or touring?

Or are there some other benefits to going nice'n'wide for everyday riding?
Dean

[bikinchris]

Slightly wider is good. A lot wider is for riding on rough roads.

Thank goodness people have quit riding 18mm tires. That was stupid.

[eddief]

wider, to a point, means less pressure, more comfort, more speed. I don't do gravel. Just put 28 Cerfs on my travel bike. They fit fine under the Enve fork and I am liking all aspects of the ride. I do have 25 Michelin Lithions on my carbon and ti and those seem great on THOSE bikes. Different bikes need different things to get the desired plane-ing effect.

[paredown]

Slightly wider is good. A lot wider is for riding on rough roads.

Thank goodness people have quit riding 18mm tires. That was stupid.
Probably--even on the track.

But they did look pretty cool.:)

[David Kirk]

Optimum tire width is of course greatly dependent on the weight of the rider and where the bike will be ridden. A skinny track rider riding on wood needs a much different tire than a bigger guy on chip seal road.

That said I'll bet the vast majority of road riders would be better off with 25's over 23's for everyday riding. They roll as well or better than the 23's and give better grip and more comfort. The only downside, and one really needs to stretch for this, is that the 25's often weigh a handful of grams more than 23's.

The question in my mind, and it sound like you have a similar one, is if 25's are better than 23's does that mean that 28's are better then 25's? In other words how fat is optimal or 'too fat'? I think in this case it become very personal. I ride 28 mm contis (oddly they are the same width as the 25's but just taller) on my everyday road bike and i can't imagine ever going back to 25's. They are fast and smooth and roll very well on smooth stuff and feel great on chip seal and rough road. Would a 105 lbs rider feel the same way? Maybe not. But they seem to be the optimum for me. When I go bigger it starts to feel like a balloon tire and a bit bouncy and squirmy.

Optimally you'd be able to mount up a few different sizes and try them but that isn't practical for most riders. But in the end the feeling is highly subjective and only you can tell what you will like best.


dave

[thwart]

But they did look pretty cool.:)

Yeah, I agree. There's no way a 28 mm tire looks as elegant on a road bike as a 21 or 23.

But function triumphs over form here. For me anyway.

[Bradford]

...
So are the people who are going wider than 25s riding rough roads/trails and/or touring?...


I tour on 37s. I have 28s on my commuter and 25s on the road bike.

I can't imagine touring on anything narrower then 35.


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[Lanterne Rouge]

28mm minimum and 32mm premium.

I don't race, I'm not fast but I can hold my own. I may have my facts wrong on this but a slighter wider rim and a slightly wider tyre has been *proven to be better/more efficient for a *normal rider.

I was thinking on similar lines this morning. Last year myself and a bunch of mates rode from NY to the Hamptons and opted for my racier bike (25mm) over my touring'er bike (32mm). I think I would have been dropped (yeah my mates are like that) early but the additional comfort and long term efficiency I think I probably would have made up the ground.

[p nut]

I rode 23's for years, then thought I'd try 28's this year. The bike I put it on is for purely road riding (maybe 1% dirt). It was a bit too much for me, especially being on a single speed. I split the difference and just bought 25's. It's just slighly heavier than 23's, so hopefully won't bog me down much. If I were riding gears, I would probably stay with 28's.

On my mixed road bike (emphasis on dirt), it sports 700x43 rock n roads, which have been awesome on dirt. I just bought a bike with Grand Bois 43's for more asphalt than dirt rides, so I will see how I like it. This one has gears, so it will make it a bit easier on me to run fatter tires.

[paredown]

...

The question in my mind, and it sound like you have a similar one, is if 25's are better than 23's does that mean that 28's are better then 25's? In other words how fat is optimal or 'too fat'? I think in this case it become very personal.

dave

Well (re)stated. Thanks--and I suspect I will try 25s and see.

I've run wider when touring--Schwalbe Marathons, although I cannot remember how wide. I'm like a lot of ex-racers, though--used to be a lot skinnier--so it is good to revisit these choices. These days I'm about 170-175--a good 25-30 pounds heaver than I was when I was racing so in addition to being a lot less fit, the dynamics of me going down the road has also changed, so food for thought.

Narrow tires on a wood track--that was what I was remembering. But I could never afford real zoot tires like 18s...

[giordana93]

28 for me on my road bikes ridden as fast as I can still manage, ie club fast rides. Just dont see how a narrower tire would be faster and I know it is less comfy, more prone to pinches, has to be topped off every ride. Not worth it for me. When I get dropped, it is not owing to tires. 25 is bare min

[plattyjo]

I can only fit 23's on my road bike. I've been running Grand Bois Hetres 42's on my rando bike and during my last 400k and 600k, felt a) super comfortable b) no noticeable loss of speed. It took me a while to make the switch (for a while, 32's were as wide as I would go on my CX or rando bike) but now that I have, I'm soooo glad.

So when I recently took my road bike for a spin, it felt so bumpy - even though I have carbon bars/fork on that bike and my rando is all steel. Tires make such a difference in ride quality! So yes, the Jan Heine Kool-Aid tastes delicious. :)

[gearguywb]

I switched to 25's several years ago and never looked back. For rougher roads (or JRA'ing) tubie 27 or clincher 28's

[michaelh]

I just purchased a new set of wheels (khamsin), and have convinced myself to get 25 instead of 23. Unfortunately the specs seem to claim that I shouldn't exceed 25mm on them.

Would it be sensible to go beyond the listed specifications?

[shovelhd]

As I am contemplating 11 speed, I am also considering going to wider rims and 25mm tires for both training (clincher) and racing (sewup). I prefer deep carbon wheels so that's two sets to change. I could save a bunch rebuilding my training clincher for 11 speed and stay narrow but the sewups would have to be new wheels. I just haven't heard enough from racers who have switched to convince me that going wider is worth it.

[merckx]

As I am contemplating 11 speed, I am also considering going to wider rims and 25mm tires for both training (clincher) and racing (sewup). I prefer deep carbon wheels so that's two sets to change. I could save a bunch rebuilding my training clincher for 11 speed and stay narrow but the sewups would have to be new wheels. I just haven't heard enough from racers who have switched to convince me that going wider is worth it.

"I train and race on a pair of 36 spoke GP4's but want to build a pair of time trial wheels. I'm thinking about a pair of 32 spoke GL330's but don't know if it will be too risky." This was a typical wheel conversation that we would engage in 30 years ago. My how we have devolved.

[Tommasini53]

I'm using HED Belgium rims with Hutch tubeless 25c on the front and 28c on the rear.
the rims are wide and with these tires the combo is great for all roads.

the 28c Hutchinsons have plenty of clearance on the rear...but just a hairs clearance on the front, so I use a 25c on the front...

I agree, wider is better.

[shovelhd]

"I train and race on a pair of 36 spoke GP4's but want to build a pair of time trial wheels. I'm thinking about a pair of 32 spoke GL330's but don't know if it will be too risky." This was a typical wheel conversation that we would engage in 30 years ago. My how we have devolved.

I used to train on GP4's and race on GL330's and GEL280's. Campy Record of course. I wouldn't call that devolving.

[mtechnica]

23c is fine on a road bike if you're light and don't have to jack the pressure up. 25c tires are fast and ride a little more plush in my experience but not actually faster in practice than 23c tires. IMO once you get to 28+c (real not nominal) there's too much sidewall slop for aggressive climbing, sprinting, and cornering on smooth pavement. Since most people aren't riding like that, a good wider tire probably won't slow them down on pavement. Some of the smoothest riding tires I've ever ridden were 20c michelins by the way, ride quality mostly depends on the pressure and the flexibility of the casing, bigger tires don't inherently ride more smoothly if the surface roughness is below a certain level.

[merckx]

I used to train on GP4's and race on GL330's and GEL280's. Campy Record of course. I wouldn't call that devolving.

Just giving you a poke in the ribs. No kidding though, we routinely did the Colebrook 40K TT course in under an hour on bog standard road machines with 32 spoke wheels. Equipment decisions back then were not complicated.

[mtechnica]

Also I feel like I should mention the nominal size is often way off from what the tires really measure, so the actual width of the tire should be taken into account before conclusions are drawn.

[pro12tc]

I tried 25's for a month. Hated them. And I really tried to love them based on all the people that rave about them. Went back to 23's and felt like I had 'come home'. Doubt I'll ever try 25's or wider again.

But I went from shimano to SRAM a few years ago and couldn't be happier, so my opinions are completely untrustworthy :)

[Anarchist]

I am a very big fan of 27's. What I ride mostly.

[thirdgenbird]

I just purchased a new set of wheels (khamsin), and have convinced myself to get 25 instead of 23. Unfortunately the specs seem to claim that I shouldn't exceed 25mm on them.

Would it be sensible to go beyond the listed specifications?

There are lots of wheels that have odd "maximums". I wouldn't worry. Khamsin wheels are sold in a cross version that uses the same hub.

[ceolwulf]

There are lots of wheels that have odd "maximums". I wouldn't worry. Khamsin wheels are sold in a cross version that uses the same hub.


Yes, I have one set of each, run 32s on the CX ones. The rim is the same (except for the G3 drilling on the rear of the road set). No issues at all.


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[William]

28's or above....but then I'm a clydesdale so ymmv.:)







William

[professerr]

***

[oldpotatoe]

Yet another post today about someone running 32s, and possibly going down to 28s...It made me think that my desire for thin tires is an unexamined holdover from the 'old days' when all the fast guys rode narrow rims and tubs.

I've at least heard of Jan's testing of tire width, and the argument that going to a slightly wider tire may increase efficiency, and have pretty much got my mind around the idea of buying 25s when my current crop of 23s finally bite the dust (if I ever get enough time to ride and wear some out.)

So are the people who are going wider than 25s riding rough roads/trails and/or touring?

Or are there some other benefits to going nice'n'wide for everyday riding?
Dean

Generally speaking for a caliper road bike, I'd say the largest, high-ish end tire your frame/fork/brakes can handle. If that's a 28, go for it..

On my Moots, it's 25s CX Pave clinchers....on my Merckx, it's 25mm CX Elite tubies..