10/11 speed conversion question w/ cassette TLDR:Dumping Red for 6800

[eippo1]

So I'd like to get the Red off my bike. Loved it for cross builds, but has been nothing but a headache on my road bike (literally). So I have a HED Belgum wheelset that I don't want to get rid of and want to get the minimum to change the parts over.
Mr Zinn and others state that one can run a Campy 11 speed cassette with Shimano 11 speed with no issues. So does that mean I can get a Wheels Manufacturing Shiimano 10speed to Campy 11 Speed conversion cassette and happily run my current wheels?

[oldpotatoe]

So I'd like to get the Red off my bike. Loved it for cross builds, but has been nothing but a headache on my road bike (literally). So I have a HED Belgum wheelset that I don't want to get rid of and want to get the minimum to change the parts over.
Mr Zinn and others state that one can run a Campy 11 speed cassette with Shimano 11 speed with no issues. So does that mean I can get a Wheels Manufacturing Shiimano 10speed to Campy 11 Speed conversion cassette and happily run my current wheels?

Yep...or convert the wheelset to shimano 11s via free hub body, if possible. Congratulations on taking the leap away.

[eippo1]

Yep...or convert the wheelset to shimano 11s via free hub body, if poosible.

I don't think that's possible. It's a Handspun wheelset and doesn't have a Sonic hub.

[shovelhd]

I'd call Handspun and ask. Keeping Shimano with Shimano is the better alternative IMO. BTW I run a Red crank with Di2, shifts great.

[eippo1]

I'd call Handspun and ask. Keeping Shimano with Shimano is the better alternative IMO. BTW I run a Red crank with Di2, shifts great.

Just emailed HED. Good to know about the crank as I'd most likely stick with it.

[kgreene10]

BTW I run a Red crank with Di2, shifts great.

Just to add to this, I run Red 10sp rings with DA9000 and the shifting is superb. I haven't tried the DA9000 cranks so in theory that could be better, but it's so good now that I can't imagine it would matter.

[sandyrs]

Just emailed HED. Good to know about the crank as I'd most likely stick with it.

Wouldn't you want to call the people who deal with the hub, i.e. Handspun, and not the rim manufacturer?

Also, the Wheels conversion cassettes are composed of modified 105 cogs so you would be keeping Shimano with Shimano.

[shovelhd]

I'm not bashing Wheels Mfg., but three cassette choices at $160 each isn't as appealing to me as changing the free hub to native Shimano 11sp.

[eippo1]

Wouldn't you want to call the people who deal with the hub, i.e. Handspun, and not the rim manufacturer?

Also, the Wheels conversion cassettes are composed of modified 105 cogs so you would be keeping Shimano with Shimano.

Handspun made the wheels, but the Novembre hub is made by HED as well as the rim. Their answer was to check the axle. It can be converted if the axle is the newer 15mm and not the older 12mm. I'm pretty sure that it's the old 12mm, so I would have to use the conversion cassette.

And :p on the Shimano with Shimano comment.

[eippo1]

I'm not bashing Wheels Mfg., but three cassette choices at $160 each isn't as appealing to me as changing the free hub to native Shimano 11sp.


I'd agree, but don't think I have a choice.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm not bashing Wheels Mfg., but three cassette choices at $160 each isn't as appealing to me as changing the free hub to native Shimano 11sp.

Unless no shimano 11s conversion possible......but maybe Campagnolo conversion possible....

[eippo1]

So it seems that they are convert-able as I'm able to match the hubs to their diagram and all that. Only thing is that the conversion is $150 and then I have to get the cassette.

That might be great down the road, but spending that for the Wheels Manufacturing cassette and being done seems like a great option to me.

[shovelhd]

For the first cassette. After that you're in the hole. Down the road 11sp wheels are going to be worth more than 10sp. They already are today.

[oldpotatoe]

For the first cassette. After that you're in the hole. Down the road 11sp wheels are going to be worth more than 10sp. They already are today.

Agree...you are ok as long as Wheels makes the conversion cogset...but if they stop and HED no longer has the conversion FH body......I'd either convert or sell/rebuild a new set that is 11s compatible. IMHO

[stien]

Wouldn't it be easier to relace the rear wheel with a 6800 hub or similar? I feel like those conversion cassettes aren't going to hold much value.

[eippo1]

Agree...you are ok as long as Wheels makes the conversion cogset...but if they stop and HED no longer has the conversion FH body......I'd either convert or sell/rebuild a new set that is 11s compatible. IMHO

Wise you are, in the ways of the bike. I should think about the future more often. My dog and I are on the same page -- It's all about now, now, now..

Wouldn't it be easier to relace the rear wheel with a 6800 hub or similar? I feel like those conversion cassettes aren't going to hold much value.

Well by changing out the freehub, I would basically be creating an 11 speed wheel. And yes, if the conversion cassettes ever stop being made...and apparently wear faster. :mad:

Okay, you guys convinced me. I'll do it the right way and change out the freehub body. One last thing, though. If I'm going Shimano 10sp to Shimano 11sp, will I (meaning my LBS) have to redish the wheel or is that only for a Campy conversion?

[shovelhd]

Depends on the hub.

[eippo1]

I'm sure you've all been waiting for an update, :p but I've decided I'm just gonna go all the way with the 11 speed and have some new wheels made up. So expect those HED's to be on here for sale soon.

I'll most likely be going with anodized H Plus Son Archetype rims and DA 9000 hubs - 24/28. Should make for some nice wheels with hubs that I can hold on to foreverish and will look right at home on the TI Dean.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm sure you've all been waiting for an update, :p but I've decided I'm just gonna go all the way with the 11 speed and have some new wheels made up. So expect those HED's to be on here for sale soon.

I'll most likely be going with anodized H Plus Son Archetype rims and DA 9000 hubs - 24/28. Should make for some nice wheels with hubs that I can hold on to foreverish and will look right at home on the TI Dean.

Since you mentioned the drillings, what do you weigh and are you tough or easy on equipment?

[eippo1]

Since you mentioned the drillings, what do you weigh and are you tough or easy on equipment?

Currently 185 after having to take a year off riding, but usually about 165-170. I expect to be back there again since I'm able to ride 5x/ week again. Relatively easy on road bike equipment. Leave the beatings for the mtn and cross bike.

[oldpotatoe]

Currently 185 after having to take a year off riding, but usually about 165-170. I expect to be back there again since I'm able to ride 5x/ week again. Relatively easy on road bike equipment. Leave the beatings for the mtn and cross bike.

Then do 28/32 instead of 24/28.....8 spokes, 2ounces, stronger wheels.

[eippo1]

Then do 28/32 instead of 24/28.....8 spokes, 2ounces, stronger wheels.

Well the wheelset is meant to last, so I will defer to you. Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it.

[gospastic]

Why not 36/36?

[oldpotatoe]

Why not 36/36?


36/36 would weigh 3 ounces more than 28/32, 5 ounces more than 24/28....on a bike rider package that weighs about 3400 ounces. No complaints from me but 'some' worry about too many spokes as if too many means a 'fail' at the coffee shop.

I only weigh 15 pounds more than the OP, am very easy on stuff and all my wheels are 36h... And tied and soldered....that weighs a ton tho.

[eippo1]

And if I went 32/32, would I notice any difference between a 28/32 besides looks? Can you do 2x on a 32 wheel?

[oldpotatoe]

And if I went 32/32, would I notice any difference between a 28/32 besides looks? Can you do 2x on a 32 wheel?

No reason to do 2 cross 32....the weight saved equals about one spoke. The difference you will notice is a more durable wheel, 32 hole.

You are not heavy but you lose nothing by going 32/32, you gain nothing with 28/32.

[eippo1]

No reason to do 2 cross 32....the weight saved equals about one spoke. The difference you will notice is a more durable wheel, 32 hole.

You are not heavy but you lose nothing by going 32/32, you gain nothing with 28/32.

Thanks again for the advice from you and everyone else. I think I'll stick with 28/32 mostly for possible resale perceptions as I live in NE and 32/32 will be automatically assumed to have been used for cross (if I sell on CL).

[Gummee]

I rode my 28/32 wheelset just now actually. Hugi hubs w/ a Matrix Photon front and a freshly re-laced Nemesis on the back. I've beat the snot out of those wheels on gravel roads and they keep coming back.

Only thing better have been the Open SUP CD Ceramic (clincher) wheels. Beat on them too. Good stuff

M

[rauce]

For the record you can put an 11 speed shimano cassette on most 10 speed freehub bodies with the help of a dremel/file. Works fine as long as it the big cog isn't too close to the spokes, we've done it for several customers. The cassette will still work on a 11 speed freehub body down the line, just with a spacer as if it was an 10.

[shovelhd]

So how do you know the cassette won't be too close to the spokes until you file it?

[rauce]

An 11 speed cassette needs to sit 2.85mm further in than a 10 speed cassette, not too hard to measuree whether that will work or not before you start removing material from the cog carrier.

[oldpotatoe]

An 11 speed cassette needs to sit 2.85mm further in than a 10 speed cassette, not too hard to measuree whether that will work or not before you start removing material from the cog carrier.

Dremel and file? Hand tools?

Sounds like a lathe type work if you need 2.85mm. To ensure the resulting seat is also parallel to the hub flange, also. Particularly for Ti FH bodies, like 7850 and 7900.

Or just get a Campagnolo compatible wheel, and be done with it. It still surprises me that shimano made their own 10s wheels and hubs obsolete(naw it doesn't). They did the same with UG/HG...but at least you could convert, like Campagnolo and 8s->9s.

[shovelhd]

How strong will the remaining nubs be? That would be my concern.

[zachateseveryth]

Dremel and file? Hand tools?

Sounds like a lathe type work if you need 2.85mm. To ensure the resulting seat is also parallel to the hub flange, also. Particularly for Ti FH bodies, like 7850 and 7900.

Or just get a Campagnolo compatible wheel, and be done with it. It still surprises me that shimano made their own 10s wheels and hubs obsolete(naw it doesn't). They did the same with UG/HG...but at least you could convert, like Campagnolo and 8s->9s.

They used the same hub design from 8 speed on. That's 20 years. A refresh really wasn't a big deal.

[oldpotatoe]

They used the same hub design from 8 speed on. That's 20 years. A refresh really wasn't a big deal.

Actually closer to 30, late 80s..but I remember the yells when Campagnolo went to 9s in 1997...you would've thought somebody bad mouthed the Pope.

Shimano wants to sell wheels, I get that but at least Fulcrum shimano compatible wheels have a plug and play 11s FH body, as does DT, and most others.