Custom frame not to spec. What would you do?

[jmoore]

A friend of mine ordered a custom frame. He has LUSTED over these frames for a LONG time. The builder offered him a 20% industry discount. He paid full retail for upgraded paint and internal routing. Delivery time was quoted as two months. Frame took 5. Frame arrived today and they built the frame with a press fit bottom bracket shell. The documented frame specs call for English thread.


What do you do?

[eBAUMANN]

call em and tell em they built it wrong, and it took twice as long as quoted to do so…there is really no excuse for that...

[jmoore]

They offered to send him a press fit BB.

[tuscanyswe]

Sorry to hear, that must suck a bit.

How does your friend feel about that standard in general? Personally i wouldent want a frame with press fit and the fact he ordered a frame specifly with bsa threads these times tells me he may feel the same way?

[jmoore]

Sorry to hear, that must suck a bit.

How does your friend feel about that standard in general? Personally i wouldent want a frame with press fit and considering he ordered one specifly with bsa threads in this time tells me he may feel the same way?

He wants an English threaded bb but he's sleeping on it tonight because of the discount.


Edit: This "friend" is not me.

[sokyroadie]

They offered to send him a press fit BB.

Of course they did, since it is the cheap way out - He should send it back and ask for a quick turnaround on a new frame.

IMHO

Jeff

[nublar]

Ask for the pressfit BB and get reimbursed for the cost of the $20 GXP/Hollowtech/Mega-Exo adapter

[54ny77]

http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/john-quinones.jpg

[rwsaunders]

Race bike...maybe I'd live with the press fit. Basic road bike...I'd send it back. Too inflexible for current use and certainly limits your options when you go to sell the frame.

[tuscanyswe]

Ask for the pressfit BB and get reimbursed for the cost of the $20 GXP/Hollowtech/Mega-Exo adapter

20 bux refund on an expense for the same amount when ordered a custom frame that now runs on adapter instead of what was intended? Sounds like the short end of a stick to me.

[ultraman6970]

Well... the way I see it is this... I'm super easy going when the price is right, I even get shaffed just because I want sometimes when the price is right, but if your friend spent like 3 grands, well that could make me grab the phone.

Hope your friend finds a solution. The good news is that the frame now weights like 50 grams less because of the press fit BB.

[rnhood]

Keep the press fit, and if selling the frame down the road is in the cards then he probably should not purchased the bike in the first place.

[Ahneida Ride]

Of course they did, since it is the cheap way out - He should send it back and ask for a quick turnaround on a new frame.

IMHO

Jeff


I agree

[TheEnglish]

Well, is your friend actually in the industry or was this discount extended to him as a courtesy?

Industry deals, especially when offered by small outfits, are just that, deals.

My action would depend on the size of the operation that I was dealing with. If it's a one man show and they really did a solid by putting this bike together for me at a lower margin, then I keep it and move on. But if they just offered me the same price they sell to most of their customers (i.e. shops), and they can still get rid of the incorrect frame they just made for me then I would probably push a bit to get the bike I ordered.

[eddief]

discount the price a bunch or he needs to get a refund and find someone else.

[Flaroc01]

When I buy something because of a discount and it's not everything I want, I always lose out in the long run. Especially if I do come across the "right" one and either keep the original as a spare or have to sell it. Usually at a loss.

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[FlashUNC]

Its wrong. Full stop. An adapter isn't making it right.

He should get what he ordered. Discount or no.

[bikingshearer]

^^^ This.

[jmoore]

He works for a well know cycling accessories company. Not huge but not a one man company either.

I don't think it makes any difference though. They offered the discount. He didn't ask for it.

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[bicycletricycle]

I would ask for a refund or new frame built correctly, might take a sizable discount but wouldn't ask for it.

[nighthawk]

If it was me I would have to weigh how much I valued the specific type of BB vs the conversation I had with the builder about the eff up. I'd be more inclined to live with it if the builder seemed genuinely apologetic and offered to rebuild. If the geo was off I'd be less forgiving. I think only your friend would have enough information to make the best decision.... But it's probably good for him to hear other opinions before proceeding. I'm curious what the builder's response would be to your friend asking for another frame, or refund.

[jr59]

Its wrong. Full stop. An adapter isn't making it right.

He should get what he ordered. Discount or no.


agreed!

He will be sorry that he didn't send it back in the long run. No matter how the press fit works, he will always know it wasn't what he wanted.

The question is, how should the builder make this right? I have had this same problem 2 times before. 2 different builders, the first time, did not go well at all. A LOT of shipping the bike back and forth and had to get legal people involved. Finally got it close enough, but ended up giving the frame up for a charity auction just to be done with it. The second time was a breeze, builder sent a Fed ex lable the next day and it got back to me QUICK! No problems at all.

good luck

[bluesea]

I'd ask for option x: refund.

[Lewis Moon]

Send it back. The press fit is the Yugo of BBs.

[Ken Robb]

You went to all the trouble of ordering a custom frame and waiting for it to be delivered never expecting to accept a compromise as the final product. Get your $$ back.

I had this happen with a custom one-man shop. The frame/fork were supposed to use standard (long?) reach brakes with clearance for 32mm tires. It came with the wrong fork and spaced for short-reach brakes. The builder offered a discount if I would take it as is. I tried to install tires and wheels to see how much clearance it had. I could not get Shimano or Campy wheels into the rear dropouts. The builder suggested that I use a file or grinder to make the wheels fit. After a bit of filing with much more to go I realized I would NEVER enjoy riding this thing so I asked for refund and eventually got it with a lot of crappy attitude from the builder because he thought I was being unreasonable.

I have seen it sold a couple of times since then so he must have fixed the dropouts. :)

[Peter P.]

This transaction can fall in many directions.

If your friend isn't too put-off by a Press-Fit BB, then take the free cups. Since he was already offered a discount on the frame purchase to begin with (even though it wasn't asked for), I think it would be a little too tacky to ask for an even greater discount (cash back) due to the error.

The other option is to LET THE BUILDER CHOOSE THE OPTION to repair, replace, or refund. This puts the ball in his court and shows your buddy is less than hostile and willing to work with the builder. It will also show the true character of the builder.

Since this was some sort of industry discount, the builder can resell the frame as new while building your buddy the frame he ordered. Or, the builder can give a refund and still sell the returned frame as new. Your buddy walks away reasonably satisfied and the builder loses minimal money.

I don't think your friend will be happy with such a large mistake on a custom frame. Fortunately, he has the blueprint to back up his claim.

I've been in this situation. The results were at both ends of the spectrum, so I can feel for your friend.

[Ralph]

I'm a Eng BB fan myself, that's what's on my bikes. However.....I notice even Campy is making a crank for that type of BB now, and that's seems to be the future. So if price was right.....I think I would ask for help buying a crankset for the frame, without using an adaptor, and just move forward. The only bikes I see coming new with threaded BB's these days is custom frames, for people who prefer the old style cranksets with screw in cups or square taper BB. I've heard all the complaints, but also have friends with Trek's and Cannondales with over sized BB, and they work fine.

[AngryScientist]

The builder suggested that I use a file or grinder to make the wheels fit.

that's right about where the conversation would stop for me.

to the OP, i would insist on a refund.

some people here are lucky enough to have many many custom frames over their riding career, but most folks here will get one or two custom bikes they will keep, ride and enjoy for years and years, why compromise?

[bobswire]

He wants an English threaded bb but he's sleeping on it tonight because of the discount.


Edit: This "friend" is not me.

I doubt he'll sleep well leaving it as is. I would do as someone else suggested, replace bb shell, new frame or refund, builders choice.

[donevwil]

I had a similar experience in my racing days. Club deal from a respected frame builder so I was stoked. Ended up being the first bike he'd made with shaped, aero tubes and the small chain ring hit the chainstay. Had to go to a wider BB (Campy) and NEVER ONCE rode that bike without regretting having been so accepting.

A deal is only a deal if you end up happy with what you got.

[Cat3roadracer]

Of course, we are dying to know the name of the frame builder.

[parris]

The longer delivery time "could" be explained by the discount I suppose. The wrong b.b. standard? Sorry but if it wewr me I would send the frame back, get a refund, ride what I already own for the season, and toward the later part of the season after a cooling off period I would order something from a different builder.

Hopefully your friend has saved the e-mails etc.

[RedRider]

He should get what he ordered. Which BB it doesn't matter. If he wanted one and that order was accepted that's what he should get.
This is what hurts the custom bike business and makes buying an off the rack bike appealing. Sometimes there are understandable delays and the occasional error but this one has been handled very poorly.
Most people in the bike business I deal with look favorably at industry deals and often bend over backwards to get it done quickly and of the highest quality. The number one question customers ask salesman at a bike shop... what do you ride?

[cnighbor1]

Best for ordering new frame is too get a complete built order sheet
with all sizes, angles and features
tell builder not to build till he get a signed and dated copy back from you
and if in building it he has to change something he has to contact you 1st and get your approval in writting

[pbarry]

A BB30 bottom bracket cannot be replaced by a BSC unit: BB30 is huge, and even careful machining will leave an 8mm chasm around the O.D. Of the BSC bb shell that cannot be filled with brass or weld bead. If it was mine, I'd either ask for a full refund, or the BB30 specific crank of my choice. Free adapters ain't gonna make everything alright.

[wallymann]

Its wrong. Full stop. An adapter isn't making it right.

He should get what he ordered. Discount or no.

This.

[jmoore]

Of course, we are dying to know the name of the frame builder.

I know but not happening. It doesn't matter.

Once it is resolved I'll see if he wants the builder named.


I talked to him and said he should call the guy and talk some more. Apparently he offered to build another frame "later if you don't like the press fit.". No mention of expediting the new frame because " he's covered up right now".

He feels irritated and like fixing this isn't a priority for them. So a long chat is definitely in order. I think a lot of the communication has been via email and text to this point, but I may not be 100% correct on that. Its easy to take things out of context over email and text.

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[eddief]

and let him know leakage happens, reputations go down hill fast in the days of social media. Just ask Paul Taylor. The way you have described the situation makes it sound like the builder is a dick. Dicks end up finishing last.

I know but not happening. It doesn't matter.


Once it is resolved I'll see if he wants the builder named.


I talked to him and said he should call the guy and talk some more. Apparently he offered to build another frame "later if you don't like the press fit.". No mention of expediting the new frame because " he's covered up right now".

He feels irritated and like fixing this isn't a priority for them. So a long chat is definitely in order. I think a lot of the communication has been via email and text to this point, but I may not be 100% correct on that. Its easy to take things out of context over email and text.

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[fuzzalow]

This identity-withheld builder I hope considers himself a pro. And the mistake made on this fabrication is clearly not professional. Therefore, identity-withheld builder, as a professional, is responsible to accurately complete the commission of which he was charged, agreed to and received payment for.

Anything else is substandard to professional ethics and practice. This is a black & white as it gets in commerce and is not subject to debate. Sure, the builder can always throw himself at the mercy of the client to get out of a jam of his own, frankly speaking, incompetence. But getting off the hook like that is a windfall and purely the discretion of the client. For identity-withheld builder to attempt to weasel out of his own screw-up just makes him a schmuck.

[RedRider]

Best for ordering new frame is too get a complete built order sheet
with all sizes, angles and features
tell builder not to build till he get a signed and dated copy back from you
and if in building it he has to change something he has to contact you 1st and get your approval in writting

I agree with this but... if your builder doesn't have this process in place before you ask that's a really bad sign.

[jmoore]

These are by all accounts kickass frames. They are very cool and I would love to have one.

But I'm curious to see how this turns out as anyone else. If the dude doesn't make it right, that says a lot. Maybe he will. Maybe not. Its definitely a conundrum.

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[mistermo]

These are by all accounts kickass frames. They are very cool and I would love to have one.

But I'm curious to see how this turns out as anyone else. If the dude doesn't make it right, that says a lot. Maybe he will. Maybe not. Its definitely a conundrum.

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Why would you come to a public forum and post a private problem without informing us of the builder? Feels gossipy to me.

Do the answers/suggestions offered herein make a difference to the owner? They shouldn't. Could any of us be spared a similar experience? Possibly.

Frankly, I don't understand the rationale behind sparing the reputation of someone who did a lousy job, whilst allowing innocent forumites to potentially, unknowingly, walk into the same mess.

[54ny77]

:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E88HEuwInno

[dpk501]

Frankly, I don't understand the rationale behind sparing the reputation of someone who did a lousy job, whilst allowing innocent forumites to potentially, unknowingly, walk into the same mess.

One error does not deserve a ding in reputation, it's not yelp.
Everyone is human and makes a mistake. Just ask any of the best doctors including yours.

[jmoore]

I am getting this info from my friend. And its not rectified yet. I prefer to let the builder leave his reputation intact until I know for sure otherwise.

This is not a builder I have seen mentioned here much, it at all, if that means anything. So the likelihood someone is in queue and about to walk into a problem is low.

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[soulspinner]

Race bike...maybe I'd live with the press fit. Basic road bike...I'd send it back. Too inflexible for current use and certainly limits your options when you go to sell the frame.

This sounds reasonable...

[kykr13]

I don't have a custom, but I've been around enough small-builder-custom stuff that no matter how good the builder is, mistakes happen. We're all human. Doesn't make a difference to me who this builder is, it could have happened to anyone.

If it were me, I'd want what I ordered and expect that they'd re-build it for me in a reasonable amount of time (the quoted two months at most). But it's entirely reasonable for them to offer that frame at a discount - he's a guy who rides, likes custom stuff and is the same fit after all... Even more in the builder's interest if the geometry of the bike is unusual (don't know if that's the case). Heck, it's even the right color!

However, it's also entirely reasonable for the buyer to not accept it.

[merlincustom1]

If it were me the frame would go back to the builder to build a new frame to spec. If the builder balks, it's refund time.

[shovelhd]

I'm a Eng BB fan myself, that's what's on my bikes. However.....I notice even Campy is making a crank for that type of BB now, and that's seems to be the future. So if price was right.....I think I would ask for help buying a crankset for the frame, without using an adaptor, and just move forward. The only bikes I see coming new with threaded BB's these days is custom frames, for people who prefer the old style cranksets with screw in cups or square taper BB. I've heard all the complaints, but also have friends with Trek's and Cannondales with over sized BB, and they work fine.

This was my first thought as well. Bro deal on a crank that works without adapters or a replacement frame. No adapters as a compromise. This assumes the order was crystal clear and in writing.

My race bike has a BB30 BB. Recently I changed cranks that were virtually the same model. One was GXP with adapters and the new one is BB30. I could feel the difference in stiffness right away. Adapters are fine but they are a compromise.

Good luck on making this right.

[jamesutiopia]

In commercial terms your friend didn't get what he ordered, so the builder should deliver the (correct) goods. Hopefully he can afford to do so...

PF30 BB would be a deal breaker for me...

Caveat emptor

[rugbysecondrow]

Why would you come to a public forum and post a private problem without informing us of the builder? Feels gossipy to me.

Do the answers/suggestions offered herein make a difference to the owner? They shouldn't. Could any of us be spared a similar experience? Possibly.

Frankly, I don't understand the rationale behind sparing the reputation of someone who did a lousy job, whilst allowing innocent forumites to potentially, unknowingly, walk into the same mess.


This really isn't a fair statement. The customer and builder are working through the resolution process. Problems happen, mistakes get made in every arena, it is how those mistakes are managed which matters. The builder offered a solution, and it seems it was a reasonable enough solution for the customer to think about it. It seems they will continue their discussion and if the builder does not make the situation right to the customers standards (not our standards) then your course of action might make sense. As a customer, I would also verify that I did ask for, in writing, what I am holding the builder accountable for. There should be a written record of everything. If the customer didn't do this, they could be partially to blame for the poor communication.

If it were my bike frame, I would want it done right, the way I ordered it. Every detail of a custom frame should be purposeful, so I wouldn't sacrifice a detail which I felt was necessary. It is the cost of doing business and I suspect this builder won't make this mistake again after having to replace or fix this frame.

Cheers

[Tony]

Well said, Rugby.

[jmoore]

My friend has requested a new frame be expedited. He has also offered to assist with selling the other frameset if needed. It's a 58.5 square so should be easy enough to sell, esp. if it is discounted and can get resprayed to the new owners preference.

I do not know what the builders response is yet. I hope the builder steps up.

Stay tuned.

[professerr]

***

[DY123]

Threads like these are so worthless. They pop up from time to time and I don't get it.

They announce it to the world, but won't say who the culprit is. All it does is bring the whole community down. They don't say who it is so it might as well be everyone. Then others chime in about their problems with custom builders. If it was me I'd be too scared to ever buy anything custom.

As the chairman of the San Diego bike show for a couple of years I experienced a wide array of building skills and business skills. I think it sucks for some unnamed "bad" builder to cast a shadow on some of the ones really working their butts off to do great work.

In this case it isn't even your bike. Why the need for group consensus?

What if I posted....

"I'm not naming names, but a of mine friend got his saddle recovered and it didn't come back like he specked. The business owner is not very interested in listening to my friends complaints and really doesn't want to take the saddle back. What would you guys do?"

That would suck huh......?

My point is either go all the way (give all the information) or don't even post it in the first place.

[veggieburger]

One error does not deserve a ding in reputation, it's not yelp.
Everyone is human and makes a mistake. Just ask any of the best doctors including yours.

I think we all realize that. There's even a feedback thread on this very forum for heaven's sake! Some good, some bad, that's life. I don't think mentioning the builders name will drag his rep through the mud...it's just a story being told, and it's one important detail missing.

But whatever. It's not my story to tell.

[mistermo]

Threads like these are so worthless. They pop up from time to time and I don't get it.

They announce it to the world, but won't say who the culprit is. All it does is bring the whole community down. They don't say who it is so it might as well be everyone. Then others chime in about their problems with custom builders. If it was me I'd be too scared to ever buy anything custom.

In this case it isn't even your bike. Why the need for group consensus?


My point is either go all the way (give all the information) or don't even post it in the first place.

^^Well said, DY123

[jmoore]

My friend is genuinely distraught and wants to do the right thing. A broad set if opinions has confirmed that he is not way off in his thoughts on how to move forward. that's really what he wanted, to know he wasn't being overly picky and screwing someone over unnecessarily over this. Everyone agrees he is not.

My intention was not to come in here and call out the builder. It was to get a feel for what's fair in the situation. What the builder does or does not do is his prerogative. We will see soon enough.

I promise to follow up when it resolved so everyone know who this is about. But I want it worked out between the.two principals before people go making decisions.

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[jmoore]

And I fail to see how it's bringing down the whole custom builder community. Its one problem with one builder.

And if someone has a problem with a saddle then they can call me out and I will answer. If someone has an issue with Busyman, fye, then it would not bother me. I know my work and how I operate. The greater "community" is way secondary.

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[velotrack]

And I fail to see how it's bringing down the whole custom builder community. Its one problem with one builder.

And if someone has a problem with a saddle then they can call me out and I will answer. If someone has an issue with Busyman, fye, then it would not bother me. I know my work and how I operate. The greater "community" is way secondary.

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I'm with you. The decision was made, and as a forum, regardless of personal opinion on the matter, the decision should be respected (for whatever reason it happens to be).

[mistermo]

I'm with you. The decision was made, and as a forum, regardless of personal opinion on the matter, the decision should be respected (for whatever reason it happens to be).

Let's not confuse disagreement with disrespect.

[velotrack]

Let's not confuse disagreement with disrespect.

True, but at the same time, disagreement can be turned to disrespect. The OP continually declined to post (rather, his friend's decision) yet is still facing the same, almost taunting, posts to coax out the framebuilder name. If they happen to be that curious or against it, they could send a PM or share their thoughts that way rather than fill a thread asking for an opinion or two. I don't believe in DY123's comment "either go all the way (give all the information) or don't even post it in the first place". I don't see how he is in any way obligated to post such information if he doesn't want to.

Not that it has happened to an offensive degree, but it seems pretty obvious that jmoore, or rather his friend - does not want to reveal anything at the moment, and anything else is merely a divergence from the goal of the thread.

[Tony]

I would find it a irresponsible use of this forum to carelessly put a builder and his lively hood in a bad light without all the facts.

If you do not all the facts why discredit this builder. Wouldn’t it be the responsible thing to wait and find out what happens.

[54ny77]

Woops.

http://youtu.be/fGsHRfvcRiY

[rugbysecondrow]

I would find it a irresponsible use of this forum to carelessly put a builder and his lively hood in a bad light without all the facts.

If you do not all the facts why discredit this builder. Wouldn’t it be the responsible thing to wait and find out what happens.


Agree. The forum as a barometer is what was sought. The point of the post was to ask a situational question, not to point out a disreputable builder. Surely we can differentiate between the two purposes. The customer has little experience in the arena and wants to work with the builder toward a reasonable solution. Even a step further, the builder admitted the error and is communicating with the customer about a solution. The builder has done nothing wrong yet.

[firerescuefin]

The original post was simply stating a case and asking "what would you do?"

The answers he was looking for was...Yes, I'd consider taking it with the BB OR No, I'd send it back.

It was not "builder A is being a dick, unresponsive, and unwilling to hold up his end of the bargain"

Big Difference

[Charles M]

The only fairly acceptable solution for me would have been to use a Praxis BB Adapter. They're a very well made set up.

If the builder had made the frame on time and was being very attentive to this problem, I may have considered it.


If the builder was suggesting everything but and was late in the first place, I would have asked for another frame.

In fact I have asked for and was given another frame for something like this before. With Zero hesitation from the builder (and it was a purchase rather than review product.

And the Frame showed up inside 3 weeks, including the paint I wanted.


If the builder won't play ball, I would change tactics.

[Peter P.]

...That would suck huh......?


No, it wouldn't suck.

Jason is trying to help his friend. In situations of conflict such as this, parties may lack experience or be too emotionally involved to think clearly toward a rational, equitable solution. Asking for outside recommendations often reveals creative solutions that benefit both parties and anger neither of them.

People make mistakes all the time. It's not known whether this builder has a track record of poor work or if this is a one time error. It's wise to exercise some restraint unless shown otherwise.

A fair compromise is for the OP to offer that, if anyone is interested, they can contact the original poster of such a forum thread via PM or e-mail and they will receive the name of the builder. I've done exactly this with regard to a poor experience with a framebuilder.

Otherwise, one person lambasting a framebuilder on the internet is entirely unfair and potentially ruinous to a business's reputation because the post is so one-sided without hearing the builder's side of the story.

[David Kirk]

I'd send it back - it's not what was agreed upon regardless of the price.

The builder should be able to build the new frame and then sell the returned frame for a lower price and someone will love it. The buyer gets what they originally asked for, the builder gets out from under a mistake without loosing his shirt as well as getting one more of his bikes under someone excited to have it and the new guy gets a deal on a bike and he can spread the good word on the brand.

Win - win - win.

Everyone makes mistakes...........it's how they are dealt with after the fact that makes or breaks the deal.

dave

[brando]

What if, WHAT IF the OP IS the frame builder! :banana: This whole thread is a trial balloon to see what's going to happen to his reputation depending on different remedies.

[Climb01742]

I think Dave hit the nail on the head.

Mistakes do happen. We are all human. That covers the BB mistake.

But I think the builder in question then made a second mistake by not rectifying the problem himself. Making a customer choose a less than ideal solution isn't stepping up. Dave's solution is, IMO, the right solution. And this second mistake can't be chalked up to 'we're all human'.

Builders like Dave aren't successful solely because they are craftsmen. They succeed because they are accountable business people and simply decent, honorable people.

Time will tell whether the builder in question rises to this second standard.

[Len J]

This transaction can fall in many directions.

If your friend isn't too put-off by a Press-Fit BB, then take the free cups. Since he was already offered a discount on the frame purchase to begin with (even though it wasn't asked for), I think it would be a little too tacky to ask for an even greater discount (cash back) due to the error.

The other option is to LET THE BUILDER CHOOSE THE OPTION to repair, replace, or refund. This puts the ball in his court and shows your buddy is less than hostile and willing to work with the builder. It will also show the true character of the builder.

Since this was some sort of industry discount, the builder can resell the frame as new while building your buddy the frame he ordered. Or, the builder can give a refund and still sell the returned frame as new. Your buddy walks away reasonably satisfied and the builder loses minimal money.

I don't think your friend will be happy with such a large mistake on a custom frame. Fortunately, he has the blueprint to back up his claim.

I've been in this situation. The results were at both ends of the spectrum, so I can feel for your friend.

This. Couldn't say it better.

Len


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[Len J]

Everyone makes mistakes...........it's how they are dealt with after the fact that makes or breaks the deal.

dave


I think Jason is right to not disclose the builder until the situation is resolved or it's clear it can't be. What Dave said is the reason. IMO.

Len

[blessthismess]

I agree ^^ I don't think it would be fair to post the name of the builder until the situation has been resolved, one way or another. People are already beginning to form opinions of the "builder" without waiting to hear how they choose to resolve this error of theirs. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how they are handled and/or rectified that shows a persons true character. Im not sure if it's necessary to name the person at all, but at least give them a chance to make make things right first.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

...

[mcteague]

I'd send it back - it's not what was agreed upon regardless of the price.

The builder should be able to build the new frame and then sell the returned frame for a lower price and someone will love it. The buyer gets what they originally asked for, the builder gets out from under a mistake without loosing his shirt as well as getting one more of his bikes under someone excited to have it and the new guy gets a deal on a bike and he can spread the good word on the brand.

Win - win - win.

Everyone makes mistakes...........it's how they are dealt with after the fact that makes or breaks the deal.

dave

This!

Tim

[jmoore]

We have a positive resolution! My friend is extremely happy and asked me to post the reply from the builder. He also asked me to not mention their name but wanted it reiterated that it only took one email and they were very courteous and professional in their response.

Here is the builders response with names redacted:

Absolutely, that was 100% our fault, build it and ride it and we'll get
another one in the jig. We have a few urgent builds after the paint shack
expansion, but will slide this in as quickly as we can. There's a reason
we offer different type BBs and that's so you can choose the one you want.

I hear you on the new BB standard. PF30 seems a nice improvement on BB30
and allows you to replace inexpensive parts and not damage the frame. We
really like the larger weld area for aluminum (whereas for steel, I still
prefer english BB), both in terms of welding surface area and also
aesthetics. But the evolution of the BB isn't done quite yet...now if
only Shimano would work with others in the industry (yes, I am blaming
this all on Shimano).

Build it, ride it, we welcome any other feedback. V2.0 will be in the jig shortly.

Thanks,
[builder]

[FlashUNC]

Sounds like they're doing the right thing. Well done.

[Len J]

Nice resolution.

Len

[shovelhd]

Outstanding.

[seanile]

incredible, im curious about who it is just so i can say nice things about them..

[hida yanra]

That's well above what I would have thought or expected.

congrats to the builder for going above and beyond.

[DY123]

My point was not that I wanted to know who the builder was in order to trash his reputation. Not at all. I'm all about promoting and protecting builders and the craft. My point was either do it all the way or don't do it at all.

It's not the end of the world, but threads like this bug me because IMO when anonymous everyone is under suspicion.

Maybe pause a bit before posting to the WWW and try to figure it out the old fashioned way one on one.

Great that the builder did the right thing.

[velotrack]

Fantastic resolution. Glad no assumptions were made and all is well.

[djg]

I am getting this info from my friend. And its not rectified yet. I prefer to let the builder leave his reputation intact until I know for sure otherwise.

This is not a builder I have seen mentioned here much, it at all, if that means anything. So the likelihood someone is in queue and about to walk into a problem is low.

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

I haven't read through this whole thread but this seems like the right attitude to me. No doubt there's a real problem that your friend has relayed to you, but you've got a second-hand report of an issue, and an e-mail exchange, and it's not wrong to show a little restraint in naming the builder. Not because builders are holy and nobody ought to report problems -- they are crafts-persons in business and should be prepared to deal with both good and bad word-of-mouth -- but they are individuals in small business and a premature report on a conflict can do outsize damage to a reputation without necessarily helping anybody else. Seems to me fine that you would report on, and seek input on, the situation in abstract first. With more information, if things go really, really south, you or your friend can decide you know the outcome and feel that the board or others would benefit from an ID.

[Ahneida Ride]

Threads like these are so worthless. They pop up from time to time and I don't get it.

They announce it to the world, but won't say who the culprit is. All it does is bring the whole community down. They don't say who it is so it might as well be everyone. Then others chime in about their problems with custom builders. If it was me I'd be too scared to ever buy anything custom.

As the chairman of the San Diego bike show for a couple of years I experienced a wide array of building skills and business skills. I think it sucks for some unnamed "bad" builder to cast a shadow on some of the ones really working their butts off to do great work.

In this case it isn't even your bike. Why the need for group consensus?

What if I posted....

"I'm not naming names, but a of mine friend got his saddle recovered and it didn't come back like he specked. The business owner is not very interested in listening to my friends complaints and really doesn't want to take the saddle back. What would you guys do?"

That would suck huh......?

My point is either go all the way (give all the information) or don't even post it in the first place.

The difference is that there are 10000 frame builders, yet only 1 recovered
saddle.

[DY123]

Ahneida ride - You are proving my point.

When statements are made about a product but the brand name is not given the mind goes to what one knows. That is natural, but it is also why I don't like those types of threads.

You assumed recovered saddle, but there is more than just one company doing saddle covers.

10,000 frame builders? It's much less impersonal than 10,000. Try dividing by about 50 and it will be closer.

[earlfoss]

Congrats on getting a wealth of responses and baiting drama without mentioning the mfg. You should work in advertising and snag hella web metrics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pbarry]

Awesome, Earl! :beer:

[eddief]

what could be better for the forum?

[54ny77]

well, it clearly redefines ubiquitous bandwidth. and productizes web-enabled ROI. ultimately, it might even transform synergistic paradigms.

what could be better for the forum?