Skewered Revisited - Anecdotal Data

[keno]

(For those who missed my recent post, Skewered, A Sad Tale, this post relates to it. If you care, it's now either on the first or second page of titles.)

I took the steel Spectrum along with the Velomax wheels and skewers out to Tom Kellogg today. He examined the rear hub, measured various aspects of it, examined the skewers and concluded that nothing seemed amiss there. I had earlier measured the thickness of the Spectrum dropouts and those on the Serotta, and they are identical.

He then did a bench test, more like a floor test. He put the wheels in the dropouts and secured them with the Velomax skewers. He shifted the chain to the 25 cog to create the greatest amount of torque, and with the bike on the floor in riding position, pulled up on the left bar and stomped on the right side pedal. No shock to me, the rear wheel came sliding out of the dropouts. He redid the test, and, of course, created the same result.

He then removed the rear Velomax skewer and replaced it with the Mavic skewer that comes with the SSC SL model wheels. Doing the same "test", he jumped all over that pedal like crazy and the wheel DID NOT BUDGE. He jumped all over it many times, and it still did not budge.

At a minimum, I have lost confidence in the Velomax skewers. DOES ANYONE HAVE SOME CAMPY RECORD SKEWERS TO SELL OR LEASE TO ME?

I am puzzled that the Velomax techie thought his solution was the key. Maybe there is truth both in his version and in Tom's test, which I definitely believe proved something.

As a result of the above, palescotsman I am afraid I must provisionally rescind the award to you of closest to the pin (a golf reference) and similarly award it to amg, Antonio.

There will be more to this story, and if I regain my strength from the fatigue resulting from the effort put into it already, I may tell it.

Also, I am happy to report that Tom will do the necessary work to bring the stays back to their pre-wheel Houdini condition at some as yet undetermined cost. He still has the paint batch he had used to paint the damaged parts originally.

keno

[e-RICHIE]

snipped:
"As a result of the above, palescotsman I am afraid I must provisionally rescind the award to you of closest to the pin (a golf reference) and similarly award it to amg, Antonio."



i knew it.
i just knew it.
that engineering degree pays off!!!
<G> <G> <G> <G>
drinks all around.

e-RICHIE

ps

"JUST SAY NO!"
(to cnc-ed qr skewers)

[Ahneida Ride]

Keno,

This is a scary story Thank God you are ok.

Why are these skewers so delicate ? what design
deficienties should we be looking at.

[e-RICHIE]

if it doesn't say campagnolo or shimano, drop-kick it.

e-RICHIE

ps

:crap: :crap: :crap:
:crap: :crap: :crap:
:crap: :crap: :crap:

[keno]

1. So what does cnc-ed mean?

2. In fairness, amg gave multiple answers and you didn't choose one. The odds were very much in your favor.

3. Will the Chorus do or must I get the Record? If so, where best price?

4. Which Shimano? same as above

5. Which of the two remaining theories, a) Velomax techie theory or b) Tom Kellogg reality tv, do you subscribe to?

My electrical engineering degrees didn't get me squat 'cept wounded, pretty bike and a safety problem.

keno

[Ahneida Ride]

Keno or anyone else ..

I have X-Lab Skewers. Any comments on these ?
They grip tenaciously, like a aligator, so far no problems.
Quality seems above average, bit I just can't locate
any info on the web.


I believe they are build for tri bikes.

Thanks

[e-RICHIE]

1) computer-numerically-controlled. refers to to the manufacturing method of nearly ALL skewers born since the MTB era - and are primarily destined, designed for thick-assed* aluminum vertical dropouts.
2) i fully concurred with amg's entire post, and his decision to fedex those twizzlers was the correct one...
3) chorus will be fine.
4) shi. shi. oh heck. i can't say that word.
5) i side with TK's theory, of course.
H) you should consider this: the current crop of horizontal forged dropouts are shorter than they have ever been. mine included. through the years, as they've decreased in length, the accompanying screw stayed the same length. IF you have the screw all the way forward you are placing the qr and hubaxle in a "no man's land", not to be confused with a "jane". couple this with TK's burnishing off of the dropout's leading edges and you are in unchartered territory.

e-RICHIE
* "thick-assed" is an adjective, not industry jargon.

ps

:beer: :beer: :beer:
:beer: :beer: :beer:
:beer: :beer: :beer:

[Jeff Weir]

Glad to hear that the problem has been solved. I'm sure TK will get everything back to original condition.

[amg]

keno,

First off, I'm glad to hear that you are ok and that the bike will be restored back to it's original beauty.

You are in luck, I have a rear Campagnolo Record skewer kindly given to me by e-richie a few years ago when I was having the exact same problem with my Mondonico and Rolf wheels. (Now don't everyone go calling e-richie for skewers unless you can pay in metric tons of twizzlers :D ) I thought it would be fitting that I pass along this bike stress-reducing skewer to you, seeing that you are in need of such a skewer and that it helped me a lot, so now it will help you. (Gee, this is getting mushy!)

Anyway, I'm an engineer, not a writer, so please drop me a line or a PM and we can arrange the passing of skewer. :D I am in South Orange, NJ, so if you are close, you are welcome to stop by and pick it up.

Have a good weekend!

Antonio

[keno]

It's things like this that make biking more than just another sport. Thanks for your thoughtfulness and generosity. I can't help but wonder what's holding your rear on, though. (That's the old joke of the man who had a golden screw in his navel, and one day decided to unscrew it. His ass fell off.)

keno

ps I'll communicate by private email, Antonio.

[pale scotsman]

Keno - I'm glad you got it worked out, but I still think the end caps of the hubs might be part of the problem. Wimpy skewers add to it as well. The wheelset I had came with cheezy Douglas skewers and I replaced them with Shimano Deore LX, cause that's all I had at the time. The wheel still slipped in the dropouts. Granted they were 6/4 ti dropouts but the end caps Velomax sent had a much more pronounced bite than what were on the hub previously. They cured the problem for me.

But alas after reading amg and e-richies take they definitely have a better idea of what you were up against. In closing I'll graciously concede the pin shot to amg but still would appreciate the shot on the apprentice. I'd like to get a little closer inspection on The Donalds hair before I pass judgement. Thank you and please pull forward.......
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[Needs Help]

Eeeegaad!! I think I just put two and two together:

keno is that your bike of the month that got damaged? :eek: :confused:

[keno]

BINGO!

keno

[Kevin]

This means war. Damaging a beautiful bike like Keno's is unforgivable. Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Are we going to give up now? It is time to schedule the Million Cyclist March. Sandy, Kevan, Climb, BostonDrunk, DaveN, etc. pack your bags. I am gassing up the wife's minivan. We are going to the Velomax corporate offices. The corporate offices are located at:

Velomax Company, Inc.
619 W. 14th Street
Long Beach, California 90813
USA

If a bunch of middle-aged men in bike shorts doesn't scare Velomax into doing the right thing, then at least us east coaster riders can do a little riding in the beautiful California weather.

Kevin

[djg]

Branford bike? (if not your lbs?)

[dave thompson]

If you look at the serrations on the inside of the Shimano and Campy skewers, you will see they are big, well defined and when clamped properly, will hold onto the dropout tenaciously. This is the only thing that really holds your wheel onto the bike. Many of the 'boutique' and lighweight skewers use a lighter/softer metal for the serrated parts and the rear wheel can walk out under pedalling power, like Keno's did. Any Shimano or Campy skewer is better than most all others on the market.

[keno]

to Antonio, e-Richie and others who have helped to solve a very serious and dangerous problem. Hopefully the posts on my problem will be of use to others of you and save you grief. I cannot imagine having had to try to work this one out with my LBS, such as it is. I had my skewer problem on Wednesday, and here it is Saturday and the problem is solved, save a matching front skewer which I should have sometime early next week and addresses what is an aesthetic issue for me.

I consider this forum to be my LBS when it comes to advice and assistance that I can have faith in. You will never know how good this experience, since the "tragedy", has made me feel.

Ahneida Ride, I am in no position to assess any particular skewers (in fact, the only accessory I endorse is the Nitto Dream handlebars, but bars are so personal that the endorsement is worth absolutely nothing). I will be following e-Riche's advice insofar as horizontal drops are concerned, to wit, if it doesn't say Campangolo or Shimano (and he really can't say the S word but admits to its existence and limited value), forget it.

Thanks,

keno

[amg]

keno,

Glad I could be of help and thanks for the book, Bicycling Science !

I ocurred to me after you left that if the Velomax tech sends you a new hub axle serrated nut (I bet since this incident you've never heard the word "serrated so many times! :D ), it might not be a bad idea to have it changed out since the wheel has been pulled over twice already, once when you were riding and once when Tom did the bench test. It won't make much of a difference either way, but it couldn't hurt.

Take Care,

Antonio :beer: